Man shoots at noisy teenagers, killing one

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
jaybird wrote:

"P. Tierney" wrote in message
news:V6i_b.105626$jk2.476255@attbi_s53...

"jaybird" wrote in message
news
"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
jaybird wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message

No kidding. I'd have knocked him smooth out if he had
talked
back
to me
like that. That's what I'd have gotten at that age.

AND

I agree. Beating, torturing, and abusing children does cause long
term
damage. However, discipline is an essential element to the growth
of a
child.

I think that the "I'd have knocked him out smooth", from your
first post, falls under the "beating" category that you say, in
your latest post, causes "long term damage". And I agree.

Wow... you took that literally? It was meant more as a way of
expressing
that a kid should never talk to their parents the way that one did no
matter
what age they are.

--
---
jaybird
-------------------
They SHOULD speak to their parents any ****ing way they WANT to, since
anything they say to their parents, and any manner in which they say
it, is most CERTAINLY DESERVED by their parents in response to THEIR
PARENTS' MISDEEDS!

Wow... I'd hate to see how screwed up your kids are then. You can't let
kids say or do whatever they want whenever they want.


If you would be respected, honored, and loved, do those things to
those you expect it from, especially if you're the only ones who
are raising them!!!! If you don't GET it, you didn't DESERVE IT!!!
Steve

You have to teach it before you can expect to get it. I said yes sir/ma'am
and no sir/ma'am to my dad and my elders growing up, I knew my boundaries
and my limits, and I knew when I had done something wrong that I got a
spanking and I didn't do it again. My kids are the same way.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

snip

just as cruel since that's not how it is once
they hit the real world.
------------------------
Nope. Letting them experiment before they are reliant upon their
efforts is how they learn what works. That is what homelife with
parents is for, not to experience being abused, humiliated, and
dishonored by the inhumane insult of a larger person trying vainly
to control them like a robot to please an immature adult's vanity
and superstitions.

Instilling values, the sense of right and wrong, common sense.... that's
what works. There is no place for abuse, humiliation or dishonor from
either side and those limits need to be established.



If you carry your stupidity into a marriage your life will turn
to ****.

Really? I seem to be doing just fine.
-------------------------------
Self-destruction takes time for both people to get to the end of
their rope.


I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.
-------------------
Not true at all. You must be stupid to believe such hogwash!
Followed carefully that philosophy will land you in prison!

The truth is, we are each other's problems, we are all the
results of each other on an ongoing basis, and you're at fault
for each and every injustice you permit, and they will kill
you faster than even your own solitary stupidities, and you'll
say, "but I didn't..." as you die.
Steve

You're either really deep, or have a few mental issues.
---------------
Think: Former.


There seems to be a
facination with death and destruction in your posts.
jaybird
--------------------
Historicity is the normal human preoccupation for those of us
with most of a life behind them. We see all life dramas for
the vitally important and meaningful epics they are. Life is
a matter of each character's development of character, wisdom,
and their loyalty to the demands of love.
Steve

Ok.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
jaybird wrote:

"karen" wrote in message
and your grammar sucks.

im not here for grammar lessons
------------------
Here's some grammar for ya.


I completely agree that respect is one of the most important aspects.
Respect is taught and earned and is given by both the parents and the
children. The problem is when incidents of disrespect occur. That's
when a
parent has to step in and be a parent.
------------------
WRONGO!
That's when you ACCEPT your children's judgment of you
if you aren't just an immature adult!!

They can think what they will, and they will form their own opinions as they
get older. While they're still young they're going to learn that they will
respect others no matter what they think of them. Doing that will earn them
respect.



The blame of failing to correct
behavior is on mom and/or dad.
--------------------
No such "correction", a stupid vicious euphemism for abuse,
is even possible, you stupid fool.

Sure it is. If a kid is acting up, he receives a punishment. That
punishment can be all kinds of things though from no TV, no phone, up to and
including a spanking. (Yes I did say spanking in 2004). Failure to do so
lets a kid run wild and is not a socially acceptable behavior (well except
for you apparently).

Hey, can my kids come stay at your place? They'd love to be able to hit
you, cuss at you, break all your stuff, tear things up, etc... all without
consequence. That sure sounds like fun.


When it comes to your children, you ALWAYS ****ing get
what you ****ing deserve.

If you want better, deserve better NEXT time.
Your children ARE YOUR JUDGES!


--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
jaybird wrote:

"karen" wrote in message
...
No kidding. I'd have knocked him smooth out if he had talked back to
me
like that. That's what I'd have gotten at that age.


im obviously missing a lot of posts. i jsut did a google and read the
story
about the above header.
some comments...
1. no body has a right to shoot at noisy teens or anybody else for
being
noisy.
2. no adult should ever consider knocking a kid smooth out for talking
back.
3."thats what i'd have gotten at his age"...looks like you would have
learned from your parents mistakes rather than continuing the ****ed
up
cycle. thats why kids are the way they are today, for the most part,
parents
suck and are clueless, imho

Well you're crazy and your grammar sucks. I'm really surprised that you
people took that as a literal translation. The point was to express
that a
child, no matter what age, shouldn't even think about talking to their
parents like that.

jaybird
-----------------
You're going to find that people in your life, your children, and
everyone on Usenet are pretty much going to judge you by the ****
you say, so decide what **** that's going to be, because you will
IMMEDIATELY be called upon to defend it!!

Ok.......... it's been defended.

Long live the king............

(wink, wink, nudge, nudge...... smile, grin, dancing on one foot, hilarity
ensues..............)

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

In article ,
"jaybird" wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
jaybird wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message

The original poster said her son was 21 and not employed by choice,
but
then
later figured out the meaning of life when he had to start actually
going to
work and earning a living. Looks like he learned his lesson in
respect
for
others only after it adversely impacted him. Too often that's the
case
these
days and it's usually the parents fault, IMO.

Steve
---------------
What causes kids to resist learning important lessons till later is
being bullied about it all early by an idiot parent with a defective
sense of cause and effect. Dishonoring a person will always cause
them to hate and distrust you. Respecting their decisions is the
only way to get kids to turn around and face the twisting road to
their future and learn from it, instead of turning around with their
hand on the wheel of their life to try to scream insults at you for
insulting and dishonoring them, and smashing into parked cars.
Steve

That's why you don't turn around with screams,
you turn around with a belt.
-----------------
Nope, they grab a tire iron or hide their hate till they're bigger
and resolve to murder you. They waste all their time till then
because they hate you so bad they can't concentrate on school for
fantasizing your death, and finally they kill you in your sleep or
they hurt or kill someone else. THAT'S what your kind of ignorant
immature insecure abusive controlling **** produces! And if they
never manage to kill you, you have still ruined their entire young
life, their mind, and their development and opportunities as a
human being!

Listen, you sick immature whining piece of ****!:
--
ANYONE like you who BULLIES OR EVEN JUST THREATENS ANY kind of
violence against a child should be dragged to the street by your
neighbors and shot through the head and be left for the garbage
pickup! That will make the neighborhood and the WHOLE WORLD
MUCH MUCH SAFER!

There's nothing wrong with a smack on the hand or butt, or a belt "whoopin".
I got plenty when I was growing up and my parents are still alive.

Now I've never read much from these groups, but can anyone else tell me if
this guy is serious or just loopy? I've never seen anyone as fascinated by
death before.

He's serious.

And he has a lot of very good things to say about respecting kids as
(gasp!) fellow human beings.

He may be a little over the top on some subjects, and he has an
unfortunately hostile way of presenting himself, but if you are willing
to read past that, much of what he says is worth listening to.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

"karen" wrote in message
...

im not here for grammar lessons

It should be obvious as well that the observation wasn't an offer of
instruction?

I'm really surprised that you
people took that as a literal translation.

im surprised that a decent parent/person would blab such crap

Do decent people only think and write exactly as you?

The point was to express that a
child, no matter what age, shouldn't even think about talking to their
parents like that.


my point is children should be treated with respect and many times react
to
they they are treated/raised.

Sounds like the only instance of common ground that you and old Jaybird
actually share? You don't teach respect by tolerating disrespect however.

treat with respect and they learn how to treat others with respect. you
wanna point fingers, then point them towards the parents where the blame
belongs the vast majority of the time

I'm sure that we all do that - we simply disagree on which methods produce
the better results. As a cop I deal much more frequently with the children
of "time out" parents than I do with the children of "corporal punishment"
parents. We all love our kids and want the best for them, but pumping them
full of Ritalin (tm) and excusing their bad behavior as simple
self-expression can be every bit as harmful as smacking them when they need
discipline.

Steve

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
jaybird wrote:
It may seem simplistic to you, but it results in well behaved
kids for me.
----------------
Until they self-destruct and kill you. It's like winding your toys
too tight, you dip****.

Your own self-restraint and demeanor here toward someone that you apparently
don't even know pretty much exemplifies what I've come to expect from
parents who chose to tolerate anything their own kids do and nothing that
anyone else suggests. Raise two kids exactly the same way and most times
you'll still get two different and distinct individuals. Values are taught,
but what works in one instance does not necessarily work for others. You
seem to have your OPINIONS of what constitutes a proper way to raise all
children? It worked for you and that's great. Realize that there are some
cases where it won't.

The meaning of the Latin word "disciplina", from which it derives,
is a practice or effort of one's own, like yoga. The use in western
English to mean abuse to control is a mis-use.

"Discipline is never conducted upon another person, but by the
person upon themself." Cicero

It's sort of like police work in general (since this was cross-posted to
alt.law-enforcement). I cannot discipline you for violating the law, but I
could surely initiate the process that leads to punishment. Punishment is an
old concept whereby an individual is held accountable for their actions and
presumeably learn from their mistakes.

And I do know better than you do, like it or not.

I'm reasonably certain that anyone who's ever crossed you, with the possible
exceptions of your own little darlings, has been rendered fully aware of
your superior knowledge.

If you carry your stupidity into a marriage your life will turn
to ****.

Really? I seem to be doing just fine.
-------------------------------
Self-destruction takes time for both people to get to the end of
their rope.

In that case there's still hope for you too right? I mean, how can you be so
certain that your efforts might someday prove you to be a total failure?
Just because your own kids haven't gone off the charts yet doesn't mean that
they cannot do so at some point in time. Life has a strange way of proving
us all equal in the end.

You're either really deep, or have a few mental issues.
---------------
Think: Former.

I leaning towards latter myself.

Steve

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"jaybird" wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
jaybird wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message

The original poster said her son was 21 and not employed by
choice,
but
then
later figured out the meaning of life when he had to start
actually
going to
work and earning a living. Looks like he learned his lesson in
respect
for
others only after it adversely impacted him. Too often that's
the
case
these
days and it's usually the parents fault, IMO.

Steve
---------------
What causes kids to resist learning important lessons till later
is
being bullied about it all early by an idiot parent with a
defective
sense of cause and effect. Dishonoring a person will always cause
them to hate and distrust you. Respecting their decisions is the
only way to get kids to turn around and face the twisting road to
their future and learn from it, instead of turning around with
their
hand on the wheel of their life to try to scream insults at you
for
insulting and dishonoring them, and smashing into parked cars.
Steve

That's why you don't turn around with screams,
you turn around with a belt.
-----------------
Nope, they grab a tire iron or hide their hate till they're bigger
and resolve to murder you. They waste all their time till then
because they hate you so bad they can't concentrate on school for
fantasizing your death, and finally they kill you in your sleep or
they hurt or kill someone else. THAT'S what your kind of ignorant
immature insecure abusive controlling **** produces! And if they
never manage to kill you, you have still ruined their entire young
life, their mind, and their development and opportunities as a
human being!

Listen, you sick immature whining piece of ****!:
--
ANYONE like you who BULLIES OR EVEN JUST THREATENS ANY kind of
violence against a child should be dragged to the street by your
neighbors and shot through the head and be left for the garbage
pickup! That will make the neighborhood and the WHOLE WORLD
MUCH MUCH SAFER!

There's nothing wrong with a smack on the hand or butt, or a belt
"whoopin".
I got plenty when I was growing up and my parents are still alive.

Now I've never read much from these groups, but can anyone else tell me
if
this guy is serious or just loopy? I've never seen anyone as fascinated
by
death before.

He's serious.

And he has a lot of very good things to say about respecting kids as
(gasp!) fellow human beings.

He may be a little over the top on some subjects, and he has an
unfortunately hostile way of presenting himself, but if you are willing
to read past that, much of what he says is worth listening to.

He is a little over the top and quite hostile. For some reason people,
including you obviously from your comment, that discipline is somehow cruel
and inhumane. I think it's quite the contrary, but by today's society it
doesn't surprise me that there is an increase of people who think kids
should somehow police themselves. I can't think of a better way to sum it
up than the old saying: "Spare the rod, spoil the child".

Now aside from that, yes, I think a child should be nurtured, educated,
socialized, and given the best they can possibly have. That's just a
different subject alltogether since this thread started with a loud-mouthed
disrespectful kid.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
Steve Furbish wrote:
The original poster said her son was 21 and not employed by choice, but
then
later figured out the meaning of life when he had to start actually
going to
work and earning a living. Looks like he learned his lesson in respect
for
others only after it adversely impacted him. Too often that's the case
these
days and it's usually the parents fault, IMO.

Steve
---------------
What causes kids to resist learning important lessons till later is
being bullied about it all early by an idiot parent with a defective
sense of cause and effect.

I don't know - she sounded like a loving and sincere parent to me? Her son's
late realization of his own selfish disrespect was more likely exposure to
contemporary MTV moralitiy.

Dishonoring a person will always cause
them to hate and distrust you.

I suppose that would be true to an extent, but speaking as one who was
indeed spanked on numerous occassions during my young childhood days for
various types of misbehavior I can attest that I never considered it to be
dishonoring (probably because there was no one around like you to tell me
that I should?) and I pretty much always deserved it. I don't hate nor do I
distrust my parents. I think that their teaching and guidance probably saved
me from a lot of more serious grief later in life.

Respecting their decisions is the
only way to get kids to turn around and face the twisting road to
their future and learn from it, instead of turning around with their
hand on the wheel of their life to try to scream insults at you for
insulting and dishonoring them, and smashing into parked cars.

That's a bunch of highbrow BS that many of us who grew up when it was still
acceptable to "spank" can or should attest to.

Steve

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...

Nope, they grab a tire iron or hide their hate till they're bigger
and resolve to murder you. They waste all their time till then
because they hate you so bad they can't concentrate on school for
fantasizing your death, and finally they kill you in your sleep or
they hurt or kill someone else. THAT'S what your kind of ignorant
immature insecure abusive controlling **** produces!

Did you teach your own kids to think in such a generalized way as well? Are
good manners and morality small potatoes in the Walz household?

And if they
never manage to kill you, you have still ruined their entire young
life, their mind, and their development and opportunities as a
human being!

You're right. They probably won't think like you? But take heart, most
protective service agencies deal with kids once the parent's chosen methods
of teaching and discipline have failed and those people are almost always on
your side of the aisle.

Listen, you sick immature whining piece of ****!:

My my! No wonder you'd tolerate disrespect and selfish actions...

ANYONE like you who BULLIES OR EVEN JUST THREATENS ANY kind of
violence against a child should be dragged to the street by your
neighbors and shot through the head and be left for the garbage
pickup! That will make the neighborhood and the WHOLE WORLD
MUCH MUCH SAFER!

Safer for who? The self-righteous intolerant coddlers and enablers who more
often produce the offspring that those in my profession eventually have to
deal with?

Steve