Kindergarten - my child "going postal" every morning...

I don't really like doing it, but I have put our emergency contacts down
as my in-laws who are "states" away. I am upfront with people who I
give those numbers too.

Karen

(iowacookiemom) wrote in message . com...

All of this is just to provide an idea -- not to suggest that anyone
out there frustrated about school expectations regarding volunteering
is somehow off-base.

-Dawn
Mom to Henry, 10

I do believe that you can't change anything if you're not involved.
I've done something similar. My biggest complaint the first year of
school for my oldest was the lack of communication between the school
and parents. (Exacerbated in my case because both parents in our
family WOH.)

So I volunteered as a part of the communications committee on our PTO.
I'm in charge of the PTO web site, so I'm a conduit for all sorts of
information like the calendar of events, which fundraisers are when,
and who is in charge of what. I'm also in charge of the school's "buzz
book," so now I'll be able to put names to faces I hope. Another more
personal thing that has always bothered me - I'm one of those horrible
people who can't remember names. Maybe working on this directory will
help me.

And I'm halfway serious about at least suggesting a PTO/school staff
meeting about communicating with the working parent, if not a
committee decidated to aiding communications. Plus, my PTO has now
come up with "job descriptions" of committee members. I think this
helps working parents see what's involved in a given volunteer
opportunity, letting them choose volunteer positions that fit well
with their work hours and skills.

Plus after saying these not so nice things about school staff...I'm
seriously considering getting my teaching certificate. Specifically in
Art, k-12. Which would be a HUGE career change for me, but I won't
digress into that. This year I plan to ask the art teacher how I can
help her in a similar way that you've done, Dawn. Either after hours,
on weekends or on the rare day that I have off and the school does
not. A kind of distance-career-shadowing.

- Bev

Banty wrote:

:If for some
:reason you are unable to volunteer during kindergarten hours, seek out
:another parent who volunteers quite regularly in the classroom and ask
:what they perceive to be the problem.

: .. even if he doesn't volunteer 'quite regularly', no?

: Banty (yep - I'm ever aware of the common presumptions, and think it
: useful to point them out ...PIA I know ;-)

Sure, that's exactly why I used the word "parent" rather than "mother."
What a strange twist this thread took. I know there are parents who can
never physically help out in the classroom but they help out in many other
ways, either by participating in school fundraisers or by helping the
teacher after hours. However, it behooves those working parents who can
never or have no inclination to be present during the school day to seek
out parents who actively volunteer in the class if their child is having a
hard time adjusting either to school or a particular teacher to get a
second, third, or fourth opinion on what may be the perceived problem.

When it comes to those gift wrap fundraising sales, the reigning queen is
a working mom who could care less about ever stepping a foot in the
classroom, whether she could get off work or not. We all do our part.
But were I to become a full-time working mother tomorrow, I'd be damn sure
to seek out the SAH parents who are in the class every week. There's no
better review about a teacher and the classroom dynamics than by being
there yourself. But if that's impossible, asking someone else who is
there at least once a week is the next best thing. And asking two or
three other parents who volunteer in the classroom is even better still.

But I know firsthand (eyeroll) some working and at-home parents keep alive
the WP vs. SAHP rivalry. I got past that one long ago. I can name at
least three at-home parents who'd never step foot to help out in the
classroom. By virtue of working out of the house for a living doesn't
completely factor into the formula of school volunteerism. If it's not
your bag, baby (Austin Powers accent), I'm not the one to tell you off
about it.

Now if you do absolutely nothing to help out your local schools, then I
might judge you. ;-)

Noreen

"David desJardins" wrote in message
...


Anyone can make mistakes, in proportion to the time and effort expended
to the task. It doesn't seem to me that the time and effort necessary
to get five or six nines of reliability are really appropriate for this
particular task. Why would the occasional error bother you so much? It
seems like a good opportunity to introduce your child to the concept of
fallibility, and I'd rather have the teacher or assistant make
occasional mistakes, but have more time for other instructional tasks
that seem more important to me, rather than spend twice as much time on
it just to eliminate the rare possibility of error.



If having the volunteer parents take home the children's tests and homework
to correct and grade them actually does increase teacher instructional time
in the classroom then perhaps an occassional error can be overlooked, at
least in the first few primary grades. After that, however, some children
will be in danger of having points off cumes that effect their college
placement opportunities and, really, the volunteers should be able to take
the time to complete the jobs they have offered to do well or stop doing it.

-Aula, marveling that teachers farm out correcting tests and school work

In article , Noreen Cooper says...

Banty wrote:

:If for some
:reason you are unable to volunteer during kindergarten hours, seek out
:another parent who volunteers quite regularly in the classroom and ask
:what they perceive to be the problem.

: .. even if he doesn't volunteer 'quite regularly', no?

: Banty (yep - I'm ever aware of the common presumptions, and think it
: useful to point them out ...PIA I know ;-)

Sure, that's exactly why I used the word "parent" rather than "mother."

You said that the OP, the mother should volunteer in the classroom, and if she
couldn't, it should be another parent there regularly. Still, it seems to be
the Mom who is supposed to be doing the volunteering, else, somebody *else's*
parent. Still kinda leaves someone out for most families. So it really doesn't
change my point.



Now if you do absolutely nothing to help out your local schools, then I
might judge you. ;-)


I do absolutely nothing to help out my local schools (not timewise anyway). So
fire away. I volunteer to help other facets of the community. I agree with Bev.
The schools need to be doing their job, and not pinning shortcomings on
non-volunteering parents.

Banty

Aula writes:
If having the volunteer parents take home the children's tests and
homework to correct and grade them actually does increase teacher
instructional time in the classroom then perhaps an occassional error
can be overlooked, at least in the first few primary grades. After
that, however, some children will be in danger of having points off
cumes that effect their college placement opportunities and, really,
the volunteers should be able to take the time to complete the jobs
they have offered to do well or stop doing it.

I can't imagine thinking that having answers marked wrong on your
elementary school homework is going to affect your college placement
opportunities. There's something really wrong with an educational
system where people are thinking that way. But, if that really does
worry you, all you have to do is point out the incorrect markings and
get the grade corrected.

David desJardins

In article , David desJardins wrote:
Kevin Karplus writes:
It would bother me a LOT to have incorrectly graded homework returned
to the students.

Anyone can make mistakes, in proportion to the time and effort expended
to the task. It doesn't seem to me that the time and effort necessary
to get five or six nines of reliability are really appropriate for this
particular task. Why would the occasional error bother you so much? It
seems like a good opportunity to introduce your child to the concept of
fallibility, and I'd rather have the teacher or assistant make
occasional mistakes, but have more time for other instructional tasks
that seem more important to me, rather than spend twice as much time on
it just to eliminate the rare possibility of error.

An occassional flub would not bother me, as long as the teacher had
the grace to admit the mistake and quickly correct it. I'd prefer
that to what I did see last year---homework collected every week, but
often not graded for several weeks (returned ungraded, and the
homework folder collected again the next week).

I have heard horror stories from other parents (not, luckily, from my
school) where mid-elementary teachers were mis-teaching and
mis-grading math---to the point where parents had to take over the
teaching as a volunteer activity, to keep the whole class from being
badly hurt by a year of really bad teaching. THAT scares me.

On the original thread---volunteering in the classroom---I agree that
not everyone can arrange their workday to manage it, but it does
provide a tremendous amount of information about classroom dynamics,
the teacher's style, the other kids in the class, and so forth that is
almost impossible to obtain in other ways. I hope to be able to
arrange my schedule this year to be able to volunteer an hour a week
in the classroom. I did some of that last year (providing math
enrichment activities for 3-5 students while the rest did the regular
math) and learned a fair amount about the range of learning styles and
abilities in the class.

--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

x-no-archive:yes
"just me" wrote:

"David desJardins" wrote in message
...

Anyone can make mistakes, in proportion to the time and effort expended
to the task. It doesn't seem to me that the time and effort necessary
to get five or six nines of reliability are really appropriate for this
particular task. Why would the occasional error bother you so much? It
seems like a good opportunity to introduce your child to the concept of
fallibility, and I'd rather have the teacher or assistant make
occasional mistakes, but have more time for other instructional tasks
that seem more important to me, rather than spend twice as much time on
it just to eliminate the rare possibility of error.

If having the volunteer parents take home the children's tests and homework
to correct and grade them actually does increase teacher instructional time
in the classroom then perhaps an occassional error can be overlooked, at
least in the first few primary grades. After that, however, some children
will be in danger of having points off cumes that effect their college
placement opportunities and, really, the volunteers should be able to take
the time to complete the jobs they have offered to do well or stop doing it.

-Aula, marveling that teachers farm out correcting tests and school work

One of the ways my dd#1 earned her college money was by grading math
tests for the professors. And I am convinced that I got a better
grade on my philosophy final than I otherwise would have because I
typed some of the essays written by the student who did this
professor's grading for him so he could submit them to grad school (we
didn't have computers or copy machines then - it was a typewriter and
carbon paper). I think doing that gave me the vocabulary and way of
writing so I could write an appropriate essay. Although it has just
occurred to me that maybe the student graded my exams and gave me a
better grade because he knew me.

I never farmed out my stuff to be graded, but a) I wasn't an
elementary school teacher, and b) by then we had scantron

One of the ways dd#1 volunteered (and she was a WOHM) in addition to
being treasurer of the PTA was to do the overdue books for the library
- she'd go pick up the material one afternoon a week and take it home
and write the slips up. She did have a job where she didn't bring
work home with her.

grandma Rosalie

In article , Noreen Cooper says...

Banty wrote:
:
** You said that the OP, the mother should volunteer in the classroom, and
if she : couldn't, it should be another parent there regularly. Still, it
seems to be : the Mom who is supposed to be doing the volunteering, else,
somebody *else's* : parent. Still kinda leaves someone out for most
families. So it really doesn't : change my point. **

Ah, so you're saying I should have made an assumption that the OP was
married and that her husband should be the one helping out in the
classroom instead? Is that what you're taking exception to?


Nope. I said nothing about marriage. Just about always there are two parents,
though. Certainly common enough not to assume otherwise.

: I do absolutely nothing to help out my local schools (not timewise
: anyway). So

My point is that people can help the schools in many ways. So what do you
mean by (not timewise anyway)? Do you ever contribute to fundraisers at
your local school? If so, then you are helping out.

Nope. Don't do the school fundraisers - frankly, I think they're a crock. I do
give new books directly to the library, though. But I certainly don't get with
the program of the wrapper-buying, PTA-committe attending, classroom-cookie
baking mommie.


My parents never helped out at the schools but I was usually a straight A
student and rarely a behavior problem in the classroom. I can also
understand that POV of not helping out, even though my son receives top
marks for academics and citizenship and still I volunteer at least twice a
week. But the whole point of the volunteerism suggestion is the OP's son
is having trouble at school. To blame your child's failure in school for
any reason and to not get involved in any way, to only blame the teachers
and say they should be doing their job, that's rather unproductive, IMO.


The parent should be involved as an advocate of their child if necessary. To
deal with the teacher well and honestly concerning their own child. To pay
taxes, and to have a child attend who is healthy and ready to learn, and
non-disruptive. They might do the volunteering if they wish; if they think that
is the best direction to put their energies, but there is no obligation (save
for some private schools that have a specific understanding with parents) at all
to do it. Not if they have a straight-A kid, or one who is a straight-D kid.

Banty

In article , Noreen Cooper says...

Marion Baumgarten wrote:

: Hmm...I guess paying your property taxes and making sure your kids come
: ready school ready to learn isn't enough.

Do you ever participate in school fundraisers, Marion? Do you go to
parent-teacher meetings each quarter? Have you ever sat in on a PTA
meeting? Have you ever participated in a school auction?


Why are so many people getting so overly defensive on whether or not they
show up in the classroom and *especially* since I bet most parents do one
of the above at least once in their child's school years.

A bigger question: how are your kids doing in school? If they are doing
well, then you probably have no need to sit in and watch (or hear
secondhand) what's going on in the classroom.

I think the resistance you're running into is resentment of the idea that All
Good Parents volunteer (which was Bev's complaint) or even that one should
volunteer if one's child isn't an academically bright or successful student.
That's independant of whether or not any particular parent does decide to
volunteer. I certainly chafe at the idea that I *should* do something that I do
not out of obligation but for altruistic reasons, even though I *do*.


I applaud all the things you do for your community. Good for you. But if
you think only paying property taxes is going to help a child of yours who
is failing in school in some way, that is extremely short-sighted and
that's the point. Do we need to argue over that?

Um, yeah! - that's not a trivial assertion!

There are ways that IMO a parent does have an obligaton to help their child in
such a situation. Being a free hand for the school simply is not one of them.

For that is the whole
point of what I've been arguing this entire time. And the best way to
find out exactly what is going on in the classroom is to volunteer or seek
out another parent or two or three who are doing so.

This is part of the problem with the communication here. You're conflating
altruistic volunteering for the school with what you originally proposed as a
scouting mission for one's own child's sake.

I'm not saying that that's a *bad* idea - I do think it can be key in certain
situations to do something like that if one can. But then there is what is IMO
some unreasonable expectation that parents have some level of obligation to
volunteer, and even that the school's mission should normally be defined such
that it can rely on labor from the parents aside from their basic obligations
vis a vis their own child. Both are mistaken in my view.

Banty