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  #131  
Old September 7th 08, 02:30 PM posted to misc.kids
Sue
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Posts: 613
Default school supplies!

"Michelle J. Haines" wrote in message
And they also get their backs up about us somewhat fast BECAUSE we're
ex-homeschoolers, I think. Maybe that's because AS ex-homeschoolers, we
don't have much awe of teachers.


And probably because it is very apparent that you have an attitude towards
school. How come you stopped homeschooling?
--
Sue (mom to three girls)


  #132  
Old September 7th 08, 02:40 PM posted to misc.kids
MarieD[_2_]
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Posts: 86
Default school supplies!

"Sue" wrote in message
...
And probably because it is very apparent that you have an attitude towards
school. How come you stopped homeschooling?


As much complaining as I hear from the parents whose kids are in school, I'd
have an attitude, too!
Marie

  #133  
Old September 7th 08, 02:46 PM posted to misc.kids
Sue
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Posts: 613
Default school supplies!

I really have no complaints about our school. The problems that I have had,
I took it to the person that it was a problem and it was solved. We had one
really bad teacher in elementary school and I requested to never have her
and we never did. Perhaps I am just lucky or I really do have a good school
district. I would never homeschool anyway, no matter how awful things were.
I would just find another district or another setting that fit our needs.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"MarieD" wrote in message
...
"Sue" wrote in message
...
And probably because it is very apparent that you have an attitude
towards school. How come you stopped homeschooling?


As much complaining as I hear from the parents whose kids are in school,
I'd have an attitude, too!
Marie



  #134  
Old September 7th 08, 03:07 PM posted to misc.kids
Donna Metler
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Posts: 309
Default school supplies!


"toypup" wrote in message
...


"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
toypup wrote:


"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
Budgets often don't work that way, especially in
a bigger school system. It's unlikely that they'd be able
to transfer monies between payroll and much of anything
else. Plus, if they don't have the money to maintain the
instruments, they won't be useful for long.

When I was a kid (and we were quite poor, the school was gang infested,
etc.) we either borrowed the instruments from school or bought our own,
if we could afford it. Unless the instruments broke down,


But the point is that the instruments *do* break
down, and need regular maintenance. It's not all just
the little things like the everyday supplies. And there
are the instruments that aren't assigned to an individual
child (like most of the percussion instruments).


Yes, they do break, but it's a mighty poorly made instrument that would
break its first year of use, so you get at least an entire year's worth of
a class out of it. Most all of them last much longer than that. I had my
secondhand violin for many years without maintenance of any sort besides
strings. It finally disintegrated in my closet when I checked it last,
but a secondhand cheapo violin would have held those students right on
through college without replacing anything more than rosin and strings.

I understand that some things cost more to have than not, but if the
school had a music program or wanted a music program to begin with, then
instruments are a necessity, whether they are donated or bought by the
school. Wouldn't the school prefer them donated? If they already had
some, they could use the donated ones as backup for when the other ones
break down.

If you want to avoid major repairs down the line, you need to do maintenance
regularly, just like on your car. And yes, that adds up. A person who only
uses an instrument for 2-3 years might not notice, but instruments in a
school setting usually have to last 10 years or more. You're saying "no
repairs but strings" on a violin. Having a violin restrung and set up to
MENC standards for a beginning student, which is what is needed if you want
an instrument which will be playable by a beginner who can't do their own
minor adjustments (and no, a band director who has nearly 100 students in a
beginning instrumental class can't do those adjustments either, because that
band director already HAS a full-time job teaching music to everyone else in
the school!) is about $75 a year. And no, a secondhand, cheapo violin would
not get a child through high school and college on only rosin and strings.
Number 1, the quality of the instrument wouldn't be such to allow it.
College students, and even serious high school players, need an intermediate
or professional level instrument. Instead of getting a car in high school, I
got the professional level saxophone I needed for college. And the sax
probably cost more than many of my friend's used cars, and number 2, if
you're playing regularly, eventually the bridge and the fingerboard will
need to be replaced, because the strings cause a lot of friction, and oils
from the students' fingers eventually break down the wood (which is already
getting microscratches and scrapes from the wire strings) over time. The
cheaper the instruments, the softer the wood used, and usually the sooner
they'll need replacement.

Bow hairs on violins should also be replaced yearly.

And violins are about the simplest instrument (except for maybe a drum) in
the orchestra or band. Brass instruments are pretty simple, but welds
between sections need to be checked, and major dents hammered out. Woodwinds
have myriad little pads and keys that need replacement and adjustment, and
that's just the nature of the beast. The younger the player, the more this
is needed, simply because younger players are less exact at how they place
their fingers, less careful with their cases and tend to end up knocking
their instruments around more. They also tend to be less careful at drying
out the instrument, so pads rot faster. In most cases, clarinets and
saxophones played by beginners will have several pads that need replaced
within a year, and, again, the key mechanism has to be readjusted yearly.
Yes, the instrument will still play if you don't do it, but you're talking
that the sound suffers and that the instrument will get harder and harder to
play as the years progress.

In this case, the school did not have a band program. It had a general music
program, parents who wanted a band program because of all the research
indicating that this was a good idea, and a teacher hired for general music
who was qualified to teach band as well. The opportunity came up for several
schools to get new instrumental music programs-and they had to be NEW
programs, not existing ones. Unfortunately, while the district and the
companies involved got a ton of good press from making this big donation to
several low income schools, they'd neglected to provide anything else.

The result is that we had instruments-but no consumables. Chairs, since the
school had them, but only a half dozen music stands. We did have beginning
band books for the first year-luckily, ASCAP and Yamaha both made donations
to schools that recieved the instruments.

In the first year, I was able to dig up local funding to cover most of the
consumables, and we only needed one repair. But that summer, when really,
all the instruments should have been gone over and refit, I spent hundreds
of hours doing the work I could do on them myself unpaid-because we simply
didn't have the money to pay for it.

The second year, again, I beat the curbs to pay for consumables, and those
donated band books, which usually are only used for one year, were starting
to fall apart.

At that point, I got pregnant, and took a year leave of absense. The
director who came into the school was shocked that the repairs and
maintenance I'd marked needed to be done hadn't been. I wasn't.

Don't know what happened since, given that I decided not to return to
full-time teaching and took a part-time adjunct position instead, but I have
a feeling that unless they get another fairly young teacher with missionary
zeal who is willing to volunteer a lot of time and effort, the school
probably won't have an instrumental program, because in 5 years, without
maintenance, the instruments will NOT be functional-or, in many cases,
repairable.

I have seen this happen again and again with large grants, and that includes
much federal funding. Big, flashy things are funded, but the day to day
costs of using them aren't. So teachers are granted new, fancy computers to
use with their students, but no software (and in the pre-internet,
networking days, that made them mostly expensive paperweights), paper, or
printer cartridges. Or a program is adopted and granted which has
consumable books or keep books for little kids to take home, but no funds
are provided to replace said books each year. Or, they haven't considered
loss and replacement-one very expensive grant funded program put
playstations with specific software designed to work on educational things
in student homes. At the end of the year, almost half the playstations were
either "lost" or broken. So much for that program-and so much for a lot of
money.

I have never seen a grant that was actually money which could be spent where
needed. They're always stuff-and usually only the large ticket, fancy,
bragging rights stuff.

The only school I've seen that doesn't have a mismash remnant of such
assorted programs is my DD's private one, where everything is paid up front
by parents (or by the religious group that supports the school to a pretty
hefty amount), and the school can purchase exactly what they need and no
more.




  #135  
Old September 7th 08, 03:13 PM posted to misc.kids
MarieD[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 86
Default school supplies!

"Sue" wrote in message
...
I really have no complaints about our school. The problems that I have had,
I took it to the person that it was a problem and it was solved. We had one
really bad teacher in elementary school and I requested to never have her
and we never did. Perhaps I am just lucky or I really do have a good school
district. I would never homeschool anyway, no matter how awful things were.
I would just find another district or another setting that fit our needs.


In my state, the children have to go to school in their local district. So
here, you can't just find another district. Occasionally there are
exceptions and there have only recently been made some new rules about how
to get into another district. I don't even know about them because I don't
need to right now. I explained in another post about this new school in the
district where my brother lives. There were 2 elementary schools and which
one you went to depended on where you lived in the district. Well a new
elementary school was built and all the special ed students in the whole
district (and this is 2 towns) have to go to this one school, they closed
the special ed in the other two elem. schools. Well they decided to not
furnish the whole school, the science labs don't have equipment, the special
ed room does not have what it needs, there's no playground,...
The county I live in has 5 separate school districts. Where I grew up, there
were 2 elementary schools, one middle school and one high school. The high
school was just being remodeled in 2005 and it has been there since the
50's.
I think maybe it's just this part of the state, or country. We are known for
high illiteracy rates. I know when I was in high school, and we were trying
to raise money for my choir to go to Austria(this was for the Youth and
Music Festival in Vienna), the school district refused to give us any money
but they gave the money to the athletics department. We had to raise almost
$2000/student. Luckily alot of our father's places of employment donated
money to us and many people cared enough to buy all the crap we sold as
fundraisers, and we washed a zillion cars. Being in a farming community
there weren't that many wealthy families, and those that were were in the
athletics dept. and cheerleading.
Marie

  #136  
Old September 7th 08, 03:16 PM posted to misc.kids
Banty
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Posts: 2,278
Default school supplies!

In article , Sue says...

I have never gotten a letter from our teachers that we had to volunteer for
anything or that we have to buy extra for others. It is stated that they
could use these things in the classroom and if you could donate them that is
wonderful. It either sounds to me that you are reading too much into the
letter or that your school is reallly horrible.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)


The only time I was required to do something for the school was to supply snacks
for the Montessori school; all parents were required to do that. That's a
private school.

Unless you count things like - the project assignments for the kids being that
they bring a parent in to talk about what occupation they had.

Banty

  #137  
Old September 7th 08, 03:21 PM posted to misc.kids
Banty
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Posts: 2,278
Default school supplies!

In article , Sue says...

"Michelle J. Haines" wrote in message
And they also get their backs up about us somewhat fast BECAUSE we're
ex-homeschoolers, I think. Maybe that's because AS ex-homeschoolers, we
don't have much awe of teachers.


And probably because it is very apparent that you have an attitude towards
school. How come you stopped homeschooling?


And how does she think they're copping attitudes "BECAUSE" they're
ex-homeschoolers, if she hadn't been making it clear to all and sundry that
they're ex-homeschoolers. Kids transfer in from all kinds of places and
situations. Why does she think that is at the top of their minds?

Banty

  #138  
Old September 7th 08, 05:18 PM posted to misc.kids
Michelle J. Haines
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Posts: 66
Default school supplies!

Banty wrote:

And how does she think they're copping attitudes "BECAUSE" they're
ex-homeschoolers, if she hadn't been making it clear to all and sundry that
they're ex-homeschoolers. Kids transfer in from all kinds of places and
situations. Why does she think that is at the top of their minds?


Well, first, in the kids first school, in Chugwater, it's a school of 76
kids from kindergarten to 12th grade. Of course they knew where we came
from, they knew us all beforehand.

As for Southeast, several of the teachers knew Katrina beforehand,
because when she would visit my MIL, my MIL would take her to school
with her. (My MIL was the school councillor there.) Most of this
county was either taught by my MIL or related to my FIL or both.

And, tbh, I'm not saying it's specifically BECAUSE we're homeschoolers,
but more because as a result of that, we don't have a big awe of
teachers in general. (Probably being related to a bunch of teachers
helps, too.) The first grade teacher we often had clashes with...You
might remember the "Give out everyone's information with no permission"
argument, Banty?...Even my mother-in-law said she's an extremely
abrasive woman who thinks she could always get her way...it's just with
most parents, she usually gets her way. Thank god she retired.

Issues we have had with Southeast since we've gotten he (I mentioned
the issue with the music teacher earlier)

A teachers aide was was witnessed calling a child stupid for not taking
his coat off fast enough, told our son to stop acting like a baby, and
continually incorrectly corrects children in reading groups...yet when
children or parents comment, are told "Well, you just have to understand
that's how she is."

This whole "parent/school contract" like its the school's business how
we choose to parent the children or that it actually changes their legal
responsibilities. Basically it's a piece of paper that's a platitude to
make someone feel warm fuzzies about themselves that they're Doing
Something (tm).

A library issue, which was actually easily correct: Katrina was bored
in the library, and frustrated with being told she could only read
certain books. My husband went into the school, asked the librarian
what the deal was, and was told that some parents fussed at her because
children brought home "inappropriate" books. He told her that Katrina
was to have free access to the library and if she ever brought home
something inappropriate, we'd deal with it at home. She said, "Well,
that's refreshing." and that worked out just fine.

In a school and state known for it's funding of and handling of special
education issues, it took..um...8 months from our request for an
evaluation to them getting it done. And apparently, even though there's
a 50+ plus gap between our son's highest and lowest IQ scores, and a 4
grade drop from his highest achievement levels to his lowest, because
the lowest were JUST at grade level, well...that's not a problem they
see as a concern or can do anything about.

As for why we switched from homeschooling to public schooling despite my
"attitude". Well, partly it was because my oldest daughter and I were
having a lot of struggling over some things, because she often just
didn't want to do things. Now she comes to me and says stuff like, "I
hated it when you made me do Saxon math, but wow, compared to Everyday
math that we have to do in school, I liked Saxon math so much better!"
Part of it was because half the time when she and I would get really
settled into lessons, my pager would go off and there went three hours
of the day. And part of it is because I started school, and if you can
take a paramedic class, an A&P class, and algebra class, and do clinical
hours in five different towns, the closest of which is an hour drive
away (so's the school, btw) and still have time to homeschool...you are
a better woman than I am.

However, my husband did ask me to start homeschooling our youngest again
asap, because he wants her to know how to read before she turns five,
because he plans to have a tussle with the principal about the fact that
the principal will want to redshirt her (cross thread alert again) and
my husband is saying "no way that's gonna work, so if he insists on it,
then we'll just homeschol her until he lets her in and he can put her in
the second grade" Ha.

Michelle
Flutist
  #139  
Old September 7th 08, 05:22 PM posted to misc.kids
Michelle J. Haines
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Posts: 66
Default school supplies!

Sue wrote:
I have never gotten a letter from our teachers that we had to volunteer for
anything or that we have to buy extra for others. It is stated that they
could use these things in the classroom and if you could donate them that is
wonderful. It either sounds to me that you are reading too much into the
letter or that your school is reallly horrible.


I'm not reading anything into the letters. In fact, the "It is your
responsibility to contact the other parents assigned to the same party
to make arrangements" is quoted verbatim out of the first grade letter
my son brought home last year. The rest haven't been quite that
in-your-face, but the kindergarten, second, and sixth grade teachers
have all sent home letters with an "Indicate your preference for which
party you would like you provide refreshments for, I will try to
accommodate your preferences when I make assignments" letters along with
it. The only one who has not so far is the fifth grade teacher last year.

Michelle
Flutist
  #140  
Old September 7th 08, 05:22 PM posted to misc.kids
Michelle J. Haines
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Posts: 66
Default school supplies!

Banty wrote:

The only time I was required to do something for the school was to supply snacks
for the Montessori school; all parents were required to do that. That's a
private school.


Oh, we have to do that too...so far, all the way through second grade,
on a rotating schedules.

Michelle
Flutist
 




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