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If you want to discuss something I feel is relevant
beccafromlalaland wrote: Kane, You're right I did edit some of what you wrote. I took out items that were irrelevant to what I wished to ask you or comment on. For example the URL you provided for online parenting classes. It was unnecessary for me to quote the URL, it would have been redundant as I had not comment on the URL in question. Your accusation was that I did not respond to your questions. When I removed my comments that triggered your comments/questions/rebuttal leaving your comments "lonely and dangling" I did so that those reading along didn't have to sift through 300lines of dialogue to catch up to what we are talking about, and I presumed that you would know/remember what our conversation was about. Perhaps I presumed wrongly. I don't have a problem with someone snipping my remarks. I do if they refer back to them for information or claiming I did or didn't say something. As for you quoting the Embry study again...you cannot accuse me of dodging because I had already stated I would not be baited into a long drawn out discussion on a teeny tiny report from 25yrs ago. It is not a teeny tiny report. It's a longitudinal study of considerable scientific rigorously applied research methods. It explored, for the first time in all research before, and possibly since, a direct observation of applied methods of parenting on one subject. A near perfect field study to my mind. Each of the 33 subject families were described in depth, each child also. The simple method of teaching rather than using CP to try and create a child response by pain aversion was elegant and refined as no other study had ever attempted. And the basics of social science research accepted methodology has not changed all that much in 25 years. Standards and analysis are still much the same. You may do what you wish, but making value comments on a study you have not seen is unacceptable judgement of that study. To answer your question regarding who is responsible for the lack of available parenting classes in my area. The State and Federal government. There is no funding. The Federal government is not allowed to withhold funding to one state while funding another for the various grants and programs. If your state doesn't have them someone there is not doing the relatively simple work to apply for them. Hence, I have no answer to YOUR problem beyond what I already offered, and why I asked you questions sometimes rather than answer. I did not have enough information to give a credible answer to you. I do not believe I asked evasive questions, hence your rhetorical question that in fact accused me of dodging was uncalled for. My comment "see above" in response to your question "How are they not encouraged? You mean actively discouraged, or not publicized enough?" was to save myself time typing out the answer because i had just answered it above. You have a knack for asking the same questions several ways trying to get different answers so you can trip people up with their words. That is untrue. You are projecting Doans most common methods on me. Just as now, and throughout the thread, when you gave me more information requested I answered your questions more fully and did NOT use that information to "trip" you "up with" your "words." If you think so, point it out. If true have have most abject apologies I only have come back at your with some harshness when YOU appeared to be playing the "Doan Game" with me. A harassing false insinutation like, "Dodging?" I split up one very long paragraph of yours so I could comment on individual portions in the hopes that it would be less confusing. But I see you were confused by it. Perhaps you should carefully read next time. Perhaps I should. And that I did when you accused me of "Dodging?" We both know that was an accusation in a rhetorical form. Upon reading your prior posts and my responses I found NO instances where I had failed to answer you as fully as was possible, nor did I ask any questions that were not calculated to gain more information so I could give an answer...which I then did IF you tendered the information asked for. I did it again in this post, without any attempts to 'trip' you up with your own words. You keep saying that you responded to "The one that addressed HOW you would propose stopping the offending behavior without first TEACHING people how to stop. The One that asked what Punishment you propose for violating your proposed law." I have read and reread your posts...and you did NOT answer these questions. If you feel you did, perhaps you can do a little copy and paste yourself in your next messege and point them out to me. I don't even need to go back. I can tell you from memory, and in a most recent post to you pointed them out yet again. To your first question I answered by pointing out that I would put requirements in the law to provide for services to the accused. I made that very clear. To our second question I answered that the charges and penalties should be taken from state statutes currently used to prosecute child abuse NOW. I assume you are intelligiant enough to figure out which portions of your extensive butt cover....erm clarification of your prior posts I am responding to...but I've been wrong before. You are simply using harassing language to accuse me of what I have not done. Why would answering your questions then or now be "butt cover.....?" You came back at me accusing me of dodging. I have pointed out to you my prior posts responding to the specific questions you said I did not respond to. Is that "butt cover.....," to point those out to you when you asked me to? Or did you wish to make an accusation and I NOT respond in defense of my post's contents? Let's see it again, shall we? Here is yesterday's post to you answering all your questions in full, using citations and links back to my messages, and quoting the exact words I used back then. And they WERE answers to your two questions above. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...338b2ba?hl=en& Why are you still denying that I answered you when the proof is right in front of your eyes? Here is a requote of my original posted comments to your questions from my message cited above as to link: "One cannot compel another's actions without due cause. And that has to be addressed with some action. The only legal action would be child protection statutes. " That actually answers both your questions. One cannot get a parent to be trained if they do not want to...so obviously, along with the list of sources I know are available elsewhere (I cannot solve YOUR local problem so don't ask me to and it's NOT a dodge for me to so state), the answer to your question is that there must be enforcement. As to how to force that? That's your second question, what penalty or punishment would the law apply. "The only legal action would be child protection statutes." is my answer. And as I said, I'm not going to list all the states statutes. And that too is NOT dodging. If you want an exact answer, as you seemed to for your "lack of resources in my state," response, and since I do NOT know your state of residence, then who could I be dodging not to have an answer beyond what I gave? -- beccafromlalaland You are looking more and more like you simply wish to pick a fight, and you are an admirer of Doan and his shoddy sick little tricks. Why are you stating falsely that I did not answer your questions? You may not like my answers, but they are answers and fair and as accurate as they can be under the limitations of your information to me at each step our our posted exchanges. When you told me more, I answered more fully. Kane |
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