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#1
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Joybelle wrote:
Initially, when we were given the diagnosis of spina bifida, we were told a c-section was recommended. It made sense what the doctor said (less chance of injury to the lesion), and we were planning on doing that. Well, the next three or [sic] physicians said there was no reason I couldn't do a vaginal birth. I was really ecstatic about that, and they pretty much laid any anxieties about injury to the site to rest. Or so I thought. This week, I keep thinking about this. What if I damage my baby more by having a vaginal birth? Are these other doctors right? How do I KNOW? Obviously, I'm worrying. Didn't think I'd do that after I made up my mind! I was glad to see that Joybelle's "next three or [sic] physicians said there was no reason I couldn't do a vaginal birth." Any research that supports vaginal birthing of babies with spina bifida is only going to be buttressed by the fact that most statistics about injuries to babies from vaginal births (like the recent fraudulent Hannah et al. c-section-in-all-breeches promotion) are derived from vaginal births where the birth canal was senselessly closed the "extra" up to 30%. CHIROPRACTORS... Joybelle also wrote: My mother keeps sharing stories of people she's talked to who think a c-section is absolutely warranted. A couple of these are nurses and chiropracters or people who've had kids with sb (she knows a lot of people!). Chiropractors offering advice regarding birthing babies - birthing babies with or without spina bifida - should be pointing out that obstetricians are senselessly closing birth canals up to 30% and senselessly KEEPING birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck. NOTE: Talk to a licensed chiro about this... I am unlicensed - voluntarily... See Chiro x-ray fraud (also: Why Dr. Gastaldo is unlicensed - voluntarily...) http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/3899 For some reason, the just cited "Chiro x-ray fraud" post lost some letters in transmission, but it is still legible. Thanks for reading. Sincerely, Todd Dr. Gastaldo Hillsboro, Oregon USA |
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Joy,
Disclaimers: I don't know anything about your diagnosis of spina bifida, and I don't know anything about birthing spina bifida babies. But... How and when was the spina bifida diagnosed? Ultrasound? when? Has the diagnosis been confirmed? Another ultrasound? When? Have you gotten a second opinion? I think this is too serious a question to leave up to the judgement of a single care provider. I strongly recommend a second opinion. Next, I know little about the dangers about birthing a spina bifida baby. I would suspect, however that there must be degrees of the condition, and that is what your caregivers are talking about when they talk about the safety of vaginal birth versus c-section. It would help to know just to what degree they have diagnosed the seriousness of the condition. Yet another reason for a second opinion. Finally, I am *really* suspicious about the induction talk. If they think that it is safe to birth vaginally rather than by c-section, what possible advantage could there be to induction? I would ask for study results that show that induction provides better outcomes. I would doubt that they can produce them. I might even ask Ericka to see if she could find any information on vaginally birthing spina bifida babies. Wishing you the best, Larry Joybelle writes: : I shouldn't be posting, I should really be getting things DONE around here, : but this has been going on in my head the last week. : Initially, when we were given the diagnosis of spina bifida, we were told a : c-section was recommended. It made sense what the doctor said (less chance : of injury to the lesion), and we were planning on doing that. : Well, the next three or physicians said there was no reason I couldn't do a : vaginal birth. I was really ecstatic about that, and they pretty much laid : any anxieties about injury to the site to rest. Or so I thought. This : week, I keep thinking about this. What if I damage my baby more by having a : vaginal birth? Are these other doctors right? How do I KNOW? Obviously, : I'm worrying. Didn't think I'd do that after I made up my mind! : We are also facing an induction now rather than being "allowed" to go into : labor on my own. I really, really dread, fear, despise the idea of an : induction. I'm just afraid that I'll go through the induction, end up with : a c-section, and have a harder recovery than if I go for a c-section in the : first place. We still haven't been scheduled for an induction, so I might : still have a chance to go into labor on my own. That is what I want the : most, but I've all of a sudden got a ton of worries heaping up on me! I'm : sure it's a bit normal, but I figured I'd post here. If I talk about it, I : just end up crying and getting the other people in my life anxious. They : are probably the ones causing that anxiety in a way because some people are : questioning the wisdom of the doctors for allowing me to have a vaginal : birth. My mother keeps sharing stories of people she's talked to who think : a c-section is absolutely warranted. A couple of these are nurses and : chiropracters or people who've had kids with sb (she knows a lot of : people!). : I'm really just trying to work this out in my head. Thanks for listening. : : -- : Joy : Rose 1-99 : Iris 2-01 : Spencer 3-03 : # 4 Sept 2005 |
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wrote in message ...
How and when was the spina bifida diagnosed? Ultrasound? when? Has the diagnosis been confirmed? Another ultrasound? When? Have you gotten a second opinion? I think this is too serious a question to leave up to the judgement of a single care provider. I strongly recommend a second opinion. Larry, you haven't been following Joy's pregnancy very closely, but her baby clearly HAS spina bifida, along with hydrocephalus. Multiple ultrasounds have confirmed it (I think it was initially diagnosed around mid-pregnancy), and Joy has seen many specialists throughout her pregnancy. I think it's pretty safe to say that the degree of spina bifida is well known at this point. The last thing she needs is to see any more! Finally, I am *really* suspicious about the induction talk. If they think that it is safe to birth vaginally rather than by c-section, what possible advantage could there be to induction? I would ask for study results that show that induction provides better outcomes. I would doubt that they can produce them. I might even ask Ericka to see if she could find any information on vaginally birthing spina bifida babies. Yes, this is where I'm confused, too. Given that induction tends to produce more likelihood of uterine hyperstimulation and thereby produces greater risk of fetal distress, you'd think inducing would be a bad idea. I'm suspecting that it has something to do with the hydrocephalus (the longer the baby stay in, the greater the likelihood of true CPD caused by the hydrocephalus), but that's only a guess. -- Be well, Barbara |
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wrote in message ... Joy, Disclaimers: I don't know anything about your diagnosis of spina bifida, and I don't know anything about birthing spina bifida babies. But... How and when was the spina bifida diagnosed? Ultrasound? when? Has the diagnosis been confirmed? Another ultrasound? When? Have you gotten a second opinion? I think this is too serious a question to leave up to the judgement of a single care provider. I strongly recommend a second opinion. I think if you go into the previous posts here, you'll see that she has had it thoroughly checked. Not meaning to be rude, but, having had a problem picked up at the scan, it is very irritating the number of people who keep telling you that it's probably not right, and all is actually fine, as if they know better than the 101 consultants that have scanned etc. It also keeps up a false hope that "maybe" all will be well, which isn't really helpful, although I'm sure most of them think it is. Debbie Next, I know little about the dangers about birthing a spina bifida baby. I would suspect, however that there must be degrees of the condition, and that is what your caregivers are talking about when they talk about the safety of vaginal birth versus c-section. It would help to know just to what degree they have diagnosed the seriousness of the condition. Yet another reason for a second opinion. Finally, I am *really* suspicious about the induction talk. If they think that it is safe to birth vaginally rather than by c-section, what possible advantage could there be to induction? I would ask for study results that show that induction provides better outcomes. I would doubt that they can produce them. I might even ask Ericka to see if she could find any information on vaginally birthing spina bifida babies. Wishing you the best, Larry Joybelle writes: : I shouldn't be posting, I should really be getting things DONE around here, : but this has been going on in my head the last week. : Initially, when we were given the diagnosis of spina bifida, we were told a : c-section was recommended. It made sense what the doctor said (less chance : of injury to the lesion), and we were planning on doing that. : Well, the next three or physicians said there was no reason I couldn't do a : vaginal birth. I was really ecstatic about that, and they pretty much laid : any anxieties about injury to the site to rest. Or so I thought. This : week, I keep thinking about this. What if I damage my baby more by having a : vaginal birth? Are these other doctors right? How do I KNOW? Obviously, : I'm worrying. Didn't think I'd do that after I made up my mind! : We are also facing an induction now rather than being "allowed" to go into : labor on my own. I really, really dread, fear, despise the idea of an : induction. I'm just afraid that I'll go through the induction, end up with : a c-section, and have a harder recovery than if I go for a c-section in the : first place. We still haven't been scheduled for an induction, so I might : still have a chance to go into labor on my own. That is what I want the : most, but I've all of a sudden got a ton of worries heaping up on me! I'm : sure it's a bit normal, but I figured I'd post here. If I talk about it, I : just end up crying and getting the other people in my life anxious. They : are probably the ones causing that anxiety in a way because some people are : questioning the wisdom of the doctors for allowing me to have a vaginal : birth. My mother keeps sharing stories of people she's talked to who think : a c-section is absolutely warranted. A couple of these are nurses and : chiropracters or people who've had kids with sb (she knows a lot of : people!). : I'm really just trying to work this out in my head. Thanks for listening. : : -- : Joy : Rose 1-99 : Iris 2-01 : Spencer 3-03 : # 4 Sept 2005 |
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"Joybelle" wrote in message ... I shouldn't be posting, I should really be getting things DONE around here, but this has been going on in my head the last week. Initially, when we were given the diagnosis of spina bifida, we were told a c-section was recommended. It made sense what the doctor said (less chance of injury to the lesion), and we were planning on doing that. = questioning the wisdom of the doctors for allowing me to have a vaginal birth. My mother keeps sharing stories of people she's talked to who think a c-section is absolutely warranted. A couple of these are nurses and chiropracters or people who've had kids with sb (she knows a lot of people!). I'm really just trying to work this out in my head. Thanks for listening. Really I think it's okay. A friend's child was born by normal delivery who had spina bifida. They did know before hand, but couldn't tell how bad she was. I think she's just got leg problems now, but they had no idea how bad it was going to be-they were talking about what stage the ventilator would be turned off before the birth. She was a big baby too-nearly 10lb, I think. She's a gorgeous child too. Smiley and so happy. The family say she's such a gift to them. Debbie |
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Circe wrote:
Yes, this is where I'm confused, too. Given that induction tends to produce more likelihood of uterine hyperstimulation and thereby produces greater risk of fetal distress, you'd think inducing would be a bad idea. I'm suspecting that it has something to do with the hydrocephalus (the longer the baby stay in, the greater the likelihood of true CPD caused by the hydrocephalus), but that's only a guess. That's what I'd be wondering. If it's safe to have a vaginal birth and the issue is possible CPD, then you are not likely to end up with a crash c-section because of it. That's likely to be a situation where you have plenty of time to realize things aren't progressing well and moving to a c-section if that seems warranted. And really, you don't have to go to the mat to avoid the c-section if you don't want to. You can have pretty liberal criteria for throwing in the towel with the vaginal birth, if that seems to make sense to you and you want to avoid going into an emergent c-section already wiped out. If the decision is elective c-section vs. trying for a vaginal birth, then you're certainly no worse off if you try for a vaginal birth and decide that you'll opt for the c-section if things aren't going swimmingly. As far as the safety of vaginal birth with spina bifida, it really seems to get down to precisely where the lesion is, and how exposed it is, and such. When I looked at it, it seems like you just really needed to sit down the the test results and a specialist and make a decision. It certainly doesn't seem like vaginal birth is a bad idea per se, but the details really matter in this case. If I were in that situation, I'd just put my concerns in front of the specialist and say, "I want a vaginal birth, but I hear lots of conflicting things and I'm scared. Convince me that I am not unduly risking my baby by attempting a vaginal birth." A good specialist should be able to back up his or her recommendation with some solid facts that should put your mind at ease. Best wishes, Ericka |
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Hugs Joybelle.
The problem here is that you'll never really know the correct answer ahead of time. You have additional risk factors that most people don't have -- risk to your baby's lesion. I think you need to factor in every possible issue -- baby's health, your recovery, etc, and then make the best decision that you can. If you feel like you will blame your delivery choice if your baby is more or less damaged than you've been told, then perhaps you chose a planned c-section. Whatever choice you make, try not to beat yourself up over it. You are in a very strange and specific situation -- this is not just a normal pregnancy and a healthy baby. Hugs my friend. -- Jamie Earth Angels: Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03 -- My Big Girl, who started preschool, and loved it! Addison Grace, 9/30/04 -- My Little Walker, who wants nothing more than to go explore the world! Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1, Password: Guest Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and Password |
#8
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Joy, I feel for you, it must be a hard decision, when you first posted about
your baby's condition I did look up a little bit on line, from what I read it seemed that c-section was only recommended if things were really severe and the spinal cord was actually bulging. I recall something about infections to the lesion, but it seemed that treating the infection rather than preventing it was preferred. None of these was research results, but that was the impression I got from what I read, I hope someone comes up with something more concrete. From your posts I haven't seen anything that makes induction a good idea, other than the distance you have to travel to the hospital, in all honesty I think I'd be hanging on and waiting to go naturally, knowing your baby is going to be having surgery and needing extra care, I'd be wanting to be as well a possible myself, which would mean no c-section. Anne |
#9
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Feeling a big anxious about induction vs. c-section
I shouldn't be posting, I should really be getting things DONE around here,
but this has been going on in my head the last week. Initially, when we were given the diagnosis of spina bifida, we were told a c-section was recommended. It made sense what the doctor said (less chance of injury to the lesion), and we were planning on doing that. Well, the next three or physicians said there was no reason I couldn't do a vaginal birth. I was really ecstatic about that, and they pretty much laid any anxieties about injury to the site to rest. Or so I thought. This week, I keep thinking about this. What if I damage my baby more by having a vaginal birth? Are these other doctors right? How do I KNOW? Obviously, I'm worrying. Didn't think I'd do that after I made up my mind! We are also facing an induction now rather than being "allowed" to go into labor on my own. I really, really dread, fear, despise the idea of an induction. I'm just afraid that I'll go through the induction, end up with a c-section, and have a harder recovery than if I go for a c-section in the first place. We still haven't been scheduled for an induction, so I might still have a chance to go into labor on my own. That is what I want the most, but I've all of a sudden got a ton of worries heaping up on me! I'm sure it's a bit normal, but I figured I'd post here. If I talk about it, I just end up crying and getting the other people in my life anxious. They are probably the ones causing that anxiety in a way because some people are questioning the wisdom of the doctors for allowing me to have a vaginal birth. My mother keeps sharing stories of people she's talked to who think a c-section is absolutely warranted. A couple of these are nurses and chiropracters or people who've had kids with sb (she knows a lot of people!). I'm really just trying to work this out in my head. Thanks for listening. -- Joy Rose 1-99 Iris 2-01 Spencer 3-03 # 4 Sept 2005 |
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Joybelle wrote:
I do think the hydrocephalus may be a bit of a factor (but at this point it isn't-baby is measuring up consistently 7days behind and the head is measuring up along with that), but I did have some lowering of my amniotic fluid index. That's when I was told I wouldn't be allowed to go to 40 weeks. I'm finding that I'm fine with the idea of a vaginal birth if I go into labor, and I'm fine with a c-section if it's indicated I need one, but I'm not very fine with the idea of an induction. The AFI did go up last time, so I have to think that gives me some bargaining room. With that one, you can also ask for a clear description of risks vs. benefits. On the one hand, we know that in general, the tests are less than definitive. If one doesn't look so great, try another the next day and see if you get a different reading. Two bad readings are far more indicative of problems than one bad reading. I don't think you ever need to schedule an induction in advance. Either there's evidence that it's necessary *now*, or there isn't. If there isn't, you can wait and look for more evidence tomorrow (or next week, or whenever would be appropriate). So, just take it one day, and one set of tests at a time and deal with the issue of induction when you have evidence that you need to get the baby out now. When/if that happens, *that* is the time to evaluate the likelihood of success of an induction. What is your Bishop score then? If you go step by step, it makes a lot of the "what ifs" easier to deal with. Best wishes, Ericka |
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