I'm open to suggestions

Foster-parenting my 4-year-old grandson.
Not allowed to spank.
He does whatever he wants and insists on it and we have no control.
What can we do? He's got us by our gonads!

Bill D

wrote:
Foster-parenting my 4-year-old grandson.
Not allowed to spank.

Did you receive any training? And if not, why not?

You should insist on it.

There are strategies for parenting abused and neglected children.

He does whatever he wants and insists on it and we have no control.

I'm not sure I understand you not having any control.

You have total control of his environment.

What can we do? He's got us by our gonads!

That's probably the first thing to consider. It's a view the child
doesn't share. He thinks YOU have all the control and power.

If he was abused then he was taught that "control and power" is the name
of the game, not attachment and relationship.

The clue is in the latter, not continuing to battle it out in the former.


Bill D


Don't want to suggest anything the child's worker is not part of.

Again, what training were you offered?

Kane



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Kane:

He was never abused. But he was frequently neglected as a baby. We've
had him for two years. My wife and I read all the books, watched all
the movies, went to all the classes. This little boy has "been there
and done that" on every count. It's as if he's read all the books and
watched all the videos, and attended all the classes right with us and
has figured out that he can win no matter what you do. It's as if he's
being coached! He won't do anything we tell him. It's a fight for
anything and everything. I'm open to suggestions. In "The Difficult
Child" he was qualifying for the title role. But he has surpassed that
recently, and it hasn't been fun for either him or us. My wife said to
me that she thinks he really is "hyperactive". I don't know what's
driving him. Please help.

Bill

wrote:
Kane:

He was never abused. But he was frequently neglected as a baby.

Mmmm...that's abuse. And is a powerful force for a child to distrust
adult caregivers and struggle with them for control. After all, other
caregivers failed to care for him.

We've
had him for two years.

Okay. Since he was two then?

My wife and I read all the books, watched all
the movies, went to all the classes.

No you didn't.

This little boy has "been there
and done that" on every count.

Highly unlikely unless he is psychologically damaged, or neurologically
damaged to a severe degree.

It's as if he's read all the books and
watched all the videos, and attended all the classes right with us and
has figured out that he can win no matter what you do.

That's seems unlikely.

It's as if he's
being coached! He won't do anything we tell him.

So he never sleeps, he always eats what he wants, leaves the house on
his whim and returns when he wishes.

It's a fight for
anything and everything.

That's impossible. Just responding to what you want that he happens to
do, the bottom line in changing behavior, presents opportunities
constantly. Even if it's him heading to the potty and you saying, "Time
to go potty."

I'm open to suggestions.

That's not how this appears to me. I gave some suggestions and now I see
a long string of what appear to be manufactured "yes buts."

In "The Difficult
Child" he was qualifying for the title role. But he has surpassed that
recently, and it hasn't been fun for either him or us. My wife said to
me that she thinks he really is "hyperactive".

Yet in two years neither of you has had the thought of having him
evaluated by a competent pediatric psychologist or psychiatrist? I find
that wonderously odd.

I don't know what's
driving him.

I do.

You are a sock, sir.

Please help.

Or you need to have this child neurologically evaluated.

Or he is one in some ten million children that is a genius and can
outsmart you.

I doubt this, but heck, anything could be possible.


Bill

Let us know how it goes. What the doctor says.

Ask Doan for some advice. He has a great view. It's called "let the
parent decide," and he seems to think that works even if it includes
murderous beatings of the child.

Best, Kane

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

wrote in message
oups.com...
Kane:

He was never abused. But he was frequently neglected as a baby. We've
had him for two years. My wife and I read all the books, watched all
the movies, went to all the classes. This little boy has "been there
and done that" on every count. It's as if he's read all the books and
watched all the videos, and attended all the classes right with us and
has figured out that he can win no matter what you do. It's as if he's
being coached! He won't do anything we tell him. It's a fight for
anything and everything.

Hi ya Bill.

A couple of suggestions for you. Dont fight. By that I mean dont force him
to do anything, just provide logical consequences for his actions or
inactions. Removal of priviallages is a great thing. Think about it, what
can you misconstrue to be a privillage?

Bed
Sheets
Pillow
Curtins
Lights (In his bedroom)
Toys
TV
Phone
Chairs
Tables (i.e. eating while sitting on the kitchen floor, no table or chair)
Bedroom door
I could go on for quite some time....

I had a preteen foster child once that had everything removed from his room.
And I mean everything. He had a mattress, a blanket, and a pair of pajamas.
I even made him vaccum the carpets to remove anything that he could use as a
source of entertainment. He came out for meals (which he ate from a plate
on the kitchen floor), once an hour for bathroom breaks and a drink of
water, and bath time. That was all. Otherwise his life was his bedroom.
After 5 days of this he agreed that he had really screwed up and would work
on his behaviors. I only had to tell him that I would do it again once,
after that he stayed pretty much in control of himself.

Another idea is of course the medical / psycological approach. Therapists
and doctors and drugs. Not as good an answer IMO, but it has been known to
work.

Ron

I'm open to suggestions. In "The Difficult
Child" he was qualifying for the title role. But he has surpassed that
recently, and it hasn't been fun for either him or us. My wife said to
me that she thinks he really is "hyperactive". I don't know what's
driving him. Please help.

Bill

I'm open to suggestions, but you don't have any. Don't bother replying
to my messages anymore. Thanks for nothing.
Bill

0:- wrote:
wrote:
Kane:

He was never abused. But he was frequently neglected as a baby.

Mmmm...that's abuse. And is a powerful force for a child to distrust
adult caregivers and struggle with them for control. After all, other
caregivers failed to care for him.

We've
had him for two years.

Okay. Since he was two then?

My wife and I read all the books, watched all
the movies, went to all the classes.

No you didn't.

This little boy has "been there
and done that" on every count.

Highly unlikely unless he is psychologically damaged, or neurologically
damaged to a severe degree.

It's as if he's read all the books and
watched all the videos, and attended all the classes right with us and
has figured out that he can win no matter what you do.

That's seems unlikely.

It's as if he's
being coached! He won't do anything we tell him.

So he never sleeps, he always eats what he wants, leaves the house on
his whim and returns when he wishes.

It's a fight for
anything and everything.

That's impossible. Just responding to what you want that he happens to
do, the bottom line in changing behavior, presents opportunities
constantly. Even if it's him heading to the potty and you saying, "Time
to go potty."

I'm open to suggestions.

That's not how this appears to me. I gave some suggestions and now I see
a long string of what appear to be manufactured "yes buts."

In "The Difficult
Child" he was qualifying for the title role. But he has surpassed that
recently, and it hasn't been fun for either him or us. My wife said to
me that she thinks he really is "hyperactive".

Yet in two years neither of you has had the thought of having him
evaluated by a competent pediatric psychologist or psychiatrist? I find
that wonderously odd.

I don't know what's
driving him.

I do.

You are a sock, sir.

Please help.

Or you need to have this child neurologically evaluated.

Or he is one in some ten million children that is a genius and can
outsmart you.

I doubt this, but heck, anything could be possible.


Bill

Let us know how it goes. What the doctor says.

Ask Doan for some advice. He has a great view. It's called "let the
parent decide," and he seems to think that works even if it includes
murderous beatings of the child.

Best, Kane

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

wrote:
I'm open to suggestions, but you don't have any.

"That's impossible. Just responding to what you want that he happens to
do, the bottom line in changing behavior, presents opportunities
constantly. Even if it's him heading to the potty and you saying, "Time
to go potty."

That's called a "suggestion."

The following is a suggestion you stop engaging in a power struggle with
him:

"Mmmm...that's abuse. And is a powerful force for a child to distrust
adult caregivers and struggle with them for control. After all, other
caregivers failed to care for him."

You have an abused child on your hands that has developed a set of
survival skills while being NEGLECTED.

They will NOT just automatically go away.

Ron offered you some very useful hints, tips, on how to deal with a
child that has had this, and similar things, happen to them.

Don't bother replying
to my messages anymore.

No bother.

Thanks for nothing.

Resistance to being told the truth will simply continue the problem.

Bill

But do as you wish.

I recommend you get off the power tripping with the kids, and become
authoritative. Simply don't take no for an answer, follow through, keep
your rules extremely simple. Do not waste your time talking or
explaining, other than to say, "this is how it is."

Reinforce wanted behaviors, even if they are out of the sequence you
would prefer. Reinforce even approximations of the wanted
behavior...like telling him to do something, and seeing him even look in
the direction of the task.

You have an abused child, sir. They do not "parent" like other children.

And I also pointed out that he might have neurological damage that needs
to be assessed and treated. Often NO common set of parenting tactics
will work with children that have such damage. You'll just make yourself
crazy and him as well.

Best to you. Kane


0:- wrote:
wrote:
Kane:

He was never abused. But he was frequently neglected as a baby.
Mmmm...that's abuse. And is a powerful force for a child to distrust
adult caregivers and struggle with them for control. After all, other
caregivers failed to care for him.

We've
had him for two years.
Okay. Since he was two then?

My wife and I read all the books, watched all
the movies, went to all the classes.
No you didn't.

This little boy has "been there
and done that" on every count.
Highly unlikely unless he is psychologically damaged, or neurologically
damaged to a severe degree.

It's as if he's read all the books and
watched all the videos, and attended all the classes right with us and
has figured out that he can win no matter what you do.
That's seems unlikely.

It's as if he's
being coached! He won't do anything we tell him.
So he never sleeps, he always eats what he wants, leaves the house on
his whim and returns when he wishes.

It's a fight for
anything and everything.
That's impossible. Just responding to what you want that he happens to
do, the bottom line in changing behavior, presents opportunities
constantly. Even if it's him heading to the potty and you saying, "Time
to go potty."

I'm open to suggestions.
That's not how this appears to me. I gave some suggestions and now I see
a long string of what appear to be manufactured "yes buts."

In "The Difficult
Child" he was qualifying for the title role. But he has surpassed that
recently, and it hasn't been fun for either him or us. My wife said to
me that she thinks he really is "hyperactive".
Yet in two years neither of you has had the thought of having him
evaluated by a competent pediatric psychologist or psychiatrist? I find
that wonderously odd.

I don't know what's
driving him.
I do.

You are a sock, sir.

Please help.
Or you need to have this child neurologically evaluated.

Or he is one in some ten million children that is a genius and can
outsmart you.

I doubt this, but heck, anything could be possible.

Bill

Let us know how it goes. What the doctor says.

Ask Doan for some advice. He has a great view. It's called "let the
parent decide," and he seems to think that works even if it includes
murderous beatings of the child.

Best, Kane

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Looked like Kane0 just got another friend! ;-)

Doan


On Thu, 29 Jun 2006, 0:- wrote:

wrote:
I'm open to suggestions, but you don't have any.

"That's impossible. Just responding to what you want that he happens to
do, the bottom line in changing behavior, presents opportunities
constantly. Even if it's him heading to the potty and you saying, "Time
to go potty."

That's called a "suggestion."

The following is a suggestion you stop engaging in a power struggle with
him:

"Mmmm...that's abuse. And is a powerful force for a child to distrust
adult caregivers and struggle with them for control. After all, other
caregivers failed to care for him."

You have an abused child on your hands that has developed a set of
survival skills while being NEGLECTED.

They will NOT just automatically go away.

Ron offered you some very useful hints, tips, on how to deal with a
child that has had this, and similar things, happen to them.

Don't bother replying
to my messages anymore.

No bother.

Thanks for nothing.

Resistance to being told the truth will simply continue the problem.

Bill

But do as you wish.

I recommend you get off the power tripping with the kids, and become
authoritative. Simply don't take no for an answer, follow through, keep
your rules extremely simple. Do not waste your time talking or
explaining, other than to say, "this is how it is."

Reinforce wanted behaviors, even if they are out of the sequence you
would prefer. Reinforce even approximations of the wanted
behavior...like telling him to do something, and seeing him even look in
the direction of the task.

You have an abused child, sir. They do not "parent" like other children.

And I also pointed out that he might have neurological damage that needs
to be assessed and treated. Often NO common set of parenting tactics
will work with children that have such damage. You'll just make yourself
crazy and him as well.

Best to you. Kane


0:- wrote:
wrote:
Kane:

He was never abused. But he was frequently neglected as a baby.
Mmmm...that's abuse. And is a powerful force for a child to distrust
adult caregivers and struggle with them for control. After all, other
caregivers failed to care for him.

We've
had him for two years.
Okay. Since he was two then?

My wife and I read all the books, watched all
the movies, went to all the classes.
No you didn't.

This little boy has "been there
and done that" on every count.
Highly unlikely unless he is psychologically damaged, or neurologically
damaged to a severe degree.

It's as if he's read all the books and
watched all the videos, and attended all the classes right with us and
has figured out that he can win no matter what you do.
That's seems unlikely.

It's as if he's
being coached! He won't do anything we tell him.
So he never sleeps, he always eats what he wants, leaves the house on
his whim and returns when he wishes.

It's a fight for
anything and everything.
That's impossible. Just responding to what you want that he happens to
do, the bottom line in changing behavior, presents opportunities
constantly. Even if it's him heading to the potty and you saying, "Time
to go potty."

I'm open to suggestions.
That's not how this appears to me. I gave some suggestions and now I see
a long string of what appear to be manufactured "yes buts."

In "The Difficult
Child" he was qualifying for the title role. But he has surpassed that
recently, and it hasn't been fun for either him or us. My wife said to
me that she thinks he really is "hyperactive".
Yet in two years neither of you has had the thought of having him
evaluated by a competent pediatric psychologist or psychiatrist? I find
that wonderously odd.

I don't know what's
driving him.
I do.

You are a sock, sir.

Please help.
Or you need to have this child neurologically evaluated.

Or he is one in some ten million children that is a genius and can
outsmart you.

I doubt this, but heck, anything could be possible.

Bill

Let us know how it goes. What the doctor says.

Ask Doan for some advice. He has a great view. It's called "let the
parent decide," and he seems to think that works even if it includes
murderous beatings of the child.

Best, Kane

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, 0:- wrote:

Ask Doan for some advice. He has a great view. It's called "let the
parent decide," and he seems to think that works even if it includes
murderous beatings of the child.

Best, Kane


Hahaha! Just let Kane0 decide for the parents! I heard he recommended
using tasers even on SIX YEAR OLDS! It's safe, he said!!!

Doan

Doan wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, 0:- wrote:

Ask Doan for some advice. He has a great view. It's called "let the
parent decide," and he seems to think that works even if it includes
murderous beatings of the child.

Best, Kane


Hahaha! Just let Kane0 decide for the parents! I heard he recommended
using tasers even on SIX YEAR OLDS! It's safe, he said!!!

You have such a proclivity for lying, Doan.

So tell us, did you or did you not claim that parents should decide, and
did posters to this ng, spankers, not defend the right of parents to
beat their children?

Did you speak up and challenge them? Did you in fact point out it was
beating and that's over the line?

No, Doan, you didn't. You are a vicious thug and will always be,
apparently.


Doan


I notice you are afraid to address the poster's questions.

Why is that I wonder? Afraid to tell him it's his choice to whip the
child or not?

You are a coward, Doan. Always have been, and likely from the time of
your first whipping by your parents. It tends to make socially
dysfunctional people.

0:-





--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)