PE/Recess time mandates

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:22:25 -0500, "Donna Metler"
wrote:

It really depends on the curriculum. My district uses the SPARK curriculum
for PE, which emphasizes life skills, and includes quite a bit of dance. In
fact, since I am an Orff specialist, PE and I plan together, because often
her movement objectives and mine match, so they may learn some of the steps
in PE, then use them with a song they're singing with me, to create a new
line dance (which both classes would do in the gym, where they have some
space).

And my son who loves team sports would have hated this.

Why can't they have a choice instead of trying to make all
kids do the same things?

I object to PE on the grounds that different kids have different
interests and abilities and should be able to choose the
activity that suits them best after elementary school when they
have been exposed to all the different choices.

My dd would have chosen dance. I would have chosen
swimming and perhaps soccer or basketball. My son would
have chosen any team sports other than swimming. Others
might choose marching band or individual sports like tennis
or ice skating or karate or aerobics. All of these require a
good level of physical activity and can be used to promote
healthy bodies.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

In article , Naomi Pardue says...

Anyone here have a kid who is always picked *last* for every team sport? Do
you realize how traumatic that is for your kid? I can guarantee that will
affect him/her for most of his adult life. IMO **all** team sports should
be completely eliminated from PE

classes, for this reason alone.

Uhhh... so you don't think that it might be, in some way, helpful for kids to
learn how to play soccer/softball/baseketball/volleyball/ etc.

No, the solution isn't to elimiate team sports. The solution to to find ways of
picking teams that does not involve having a team captain select team-mates on
the basis of ability. (i.e., you have the kids line up and count off, or you do
it alphabetically, or the teacher selects permanent teams at the beginning of
the school year, balanced for ability ... or any of a dozen other fair or
equitable methods.)

Well, that addresses part of the problem. But then you have the less talented
players - this expression being especially appropos here - standing out in left
field! Still a humiliating waste - those kids don't even get exersice.

I'm not so sure I'd say team sports should be eliminated. But they're less
uniformly valuable in PE than other sports and skills. It's a skill that can
only be really practiced and only benefits the kids if they - join a team. But
then, that's always available outside PE!

So it's really only good for the purpose of getting kids exposed to the sports
and rules. That's a pretty good argument for team sports in PE. But I woudln't
be upset if they eliminated team sports in PE either. It really has to do with
what goals are appropriate for PE.

Banty

"toto" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:22:25 -0500, "Donna Metler"

wrote:

It really depends on the curriculum. My district uses the SPARK
curriculum
for PE, which emphasizes life skills, and includes quite a bit of dance.
In
fact, since I am an Orff specialist, PE and I plan together, because
often
her movement objectives and mine match, so they may learn some of the
steps
in PE, then use them with a song they're singing with me, to create a new
line dance (which both classes would do in the gym, where they have some
space).

And my son who loves team sports would have hated this.

Why can't they have a choice instead of trying to make all
kids do the same things?

In a perfect world, with lots of teachers and places the kids can go, maybe.
A large high school probably could do this. In an elementary school, where
maybe 30 kids are at PE at once and there's one teacher, the best the
teacher can do is to provide different activities, so the kids are playing
basketball one week and folk dancing the next. Group and individual games,
cross country running, roller skating, bowling, tennis, jumping rope,
tumbling, and lots of other things.

Most of my inner city students don't have the opportunity to take swimming
lessons, dance classes, or play little league or youth soccer, so PE is
their exposure to different activities. When they then have the opportunity
to select activities they've at least got some idea of what the different
ones are-which wouldn't come from being allowed to play the same things
every week, all year.

PE is not open play. It is a class, and a good program allows the students a
lot of exposure to different things.

On 27 Sep 2003 12:36:09 GMT, OSPAM (Naomi Pardue) wrote:

Uhhh... so you don't think that it might be, in some way, helpful for kids to
learn how to play soccer/softball/baseketball/volleyball/ etc.

Frankly, no. I see no reason to learn these games unless you like to play
them.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

I concure with Donna. My average class size is approximately 48 students at
the middle school level. In a perfect education system these numbers would
be A LOT lower! Our job is to introduce students to a variety of activities
and then as the child gets older he/she can have sevel options for an active
lifestyle. We all had a subject in school we didn't like, but that doesn't
mean we shouldn't be exposed to that curriculum. Donna, you and I might be
in the same district, because we too use SPARK. The emphasis is on success!
As far as picking teams, we NEVER have students pick teams. Boy, if there
are still PE teachers out there that let students stand up in front of the
whole class and humiliate their peers by picking teams, I am very
embarressed for my profession! This has been outlawed in physical education
classes for some time. Somebody needs to give those teachers a kick in the
butt!!! Sorry to hear there have been so many bad experiences with physical
education out there. Lets hope some of these old school teachers either
move out of the 50's or move out all together! Best wishes for all those PE
students out there!

Amy Hunt

"Donna Metler" wrote in message
.. .

"toto" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:22:25 -0500, "Donna Metler"

wrote:

It really depends on the curriculum. My district uses the SPARK
curriculum
for PE, which emphasizes life skills, and includes quite a bit of
dance.
In
fact, since I am an Orff specialist, PE and I plan together, because
often
her movement objectives and mine match, so they may learn some of the
steps
in PE, then use them with a song they're singing with me, to create a
new
line dance (which both classes would do in the gym, where they have
some
space).

And my son who loves team sports would have hated this.

Why can't they have a choice instead of trying to make all
kids do the same things?

In a perfect world, with lots of teachers and places the kids can go,
maybe.
A large high school probably could do this. In an elementary school, where
maybe 30 kids are at PE at once and there's one teacher, the best the
teacher can do is to provide different activities, so the kids are playing
basketball one week and folk dancing the next. Group and individual
games,
cross country running, roller skating, bowling, tennis, jumping rope,
tumbling, and lots of other things.

Most of my inner city students don't have the opportunity to take swimming
lessons, dance classes, or play little league or youth soccer, so PE is
their exposure to different activities. When they then have the
opportunity
to select activities they've at least got some idea of what the different
ones are-which wouldn't come from being allowed to play the same things
every week, all year.

PE is not open play. It is a class, and a good program allows the students
a
lot of exposure to different things.

"Donna Metler" wrote:
"toto" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:22:25 -0500, "Donna Metler"

wrote:

It really depends on the curriculum. My district uses the SPARK
curriculum
for PE, which emphasizes life skills, and includes quite a bit of dance.
In
fact, since I am an Orff specialist, PE and I plan together, because
often
her movement objectives and mine match, so they may learn some of the
steps
in PE, then use them with a song they're singing with me, to create a new
line dance (which both classes would do in the gym, where they have some
space).

And my son who loves team sports would have hated this.

Why can't they have a choice instead of trying to make all
kids do the same things?

In a perfect world, with lots of teachers and places the kids can go, maybe.
A large high school probably could do this. In an elementary school, where
maybe 30 kids are at PE at once and there's one teacher, the best the
teacher can do is to provide different activities, so the kids are playing
basketball one week and folk dancing the next. Group and individual games,
cross country running, roller skating, bowling, tennis, jumping rope,
tumbling, and lots of other things.

Well Dorothy did say - after elementary school that they should ought to
have a choice.

Most of my inner city students don't have the opportunity to take swimming
lessons, dance classes, or play little league or youth soccer, so PE is
their exposure to different activities. When they then have the opportunity
to select activities they've at least got some idea of what the different
ones are-which wouldn't come from being allowed to play the same things
every week, all year.

PE is not open play. It is a class, and a good program allows the students a
lot of exposure to different things.


grandma Rosalie

: Uhhh... so you don't think that it might be, in some way, helpful for kids
to
: learn how to play soccer/softball/baseketball/volleyball/ etc.

No. Why should they?
--
ColoradoSkiBum

: Well, that addresses part of the problem. But then you have the less
talented
: players - this expression being especially appropos here - standing out
in left
: field! Still a humiliating waste - those kids don't even get exersice.

Precisely. Plus there's the collective groan from the rest of the kids when
they find out *you* wound up on their team.

: So it's really only good for the purpose of getting kids exposed to the
sports
: and rules. That's a pretty good argument for team sports in PE.

Why does that require team sports? So a kid doesn't know the rules of
basketball, who gives a crap? If you just want them to get used to sports
with rules, what about tennis? Racquetball? Numerous other sports that
require competition and physical activity without teams?
--
ColoradoSkiBum

In article ,
"Donna Metler" wrote:

"toto" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:22:25 -0500, "Donna Metler"

wrote:

It really depends on the curriculum. My district uses the SPARK
curriculum
for PE, which emphasizes life skills, and includes quite a bit of dance.
In
fact, since I am an Orff specialist, PE and I plan together, because
often
her movement objectives and mine match, so they may learn some of the
steps
in PE, then use them with a song they're singing with me, to create a new
line dance (which both classes would do in the gym, where they have some
space).

And my son who loves team sports would have hated this.

Why can't they have a choice instead of trying to make all
kids do the same things?

In a perfect world, with lots of teachers and places the kids can go, maybe.
A large high school probably could do this. In an elementary school, where
maybe 30 kids are at PE at once and there's one teacher, the best the
teacher can do is to provide different activities, so the kids are playing
basketball one week and folk dancing the next. Group and individual games,
cross country running, roller skating, bowling, tennis, jumping rope,
tumbling, and lots of other things.

Most of my inner city students don't have the opportunity to take swimming
lessons, dance classes, or play little league or youth soccer, so PE is
their exposure to different activities. When they then have the opportunity
to select activities they've at least got some idea of what the different
ones are-which wouldn't come from being allowed to play the same things
every week, all year.

PE is not open play. It is a class, and a good program allows the students a
lot of exposure to different things.



By high school, most kids know what they want and enjoy. In my kids'
schools there have been 4 to 6 PE classes going on at a time each
period; these schools are huge, with between 1500 and 2000 kids in each
grade level. Still, everyone has to take exactly the same PE, with
exactly the same mix of activities.

This isn't an issue of not enough teachers or places: all of these kids
are taking PE. It may well be an issue of not wanting the complexity of
scheduleing if you allow kids choices -- certainly it would be more
complicated -- but I think it would be much more satisfying and good for
the kids if there were at least SOME sort of choice available,
especially for those who are not athletically inclined.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

dragonlady wrote:

In article ,
"Donna Metler" wrote:

In a perfect world, with lots of teachers and places the kids can go, maybe.
A large high school probably could do this. In an elementary school, where
maybe 30 kids are at PE at once and there's one teacher, the best the
teacher can do is to provide different activities, so the kids are playing
basketball one week and folk dancing the next. Group and individual games,
cross country running, roller skating, bowling, tennis, jumping rope,
tumbling, and lots of other things.

Most of my inner city students don't have the opportunity to take swimming
lessons, dance classes, or play little league or youth soccer, so PE is
their exposure to different activities. When they then have the opportunity
to select activities they've at least got some idea of what the different
ones are-which wouldn't come from being allowed to play the same things
every week, all year.

PE is not open play. It is a class, and a good program allows the students a
lot of exposure to different things.



By high school, most kids know what they want and enjoy. In my kids'
schools there have been 4 to 6 PE classes going on at a time each
period; these schools are huge, with between 1500 and 2000 kids in each
grade level. Still, everyone has to take exactly the same PE, with
exactly the same mix of activities.

This isn't an issue of not enough teachers or places: all of these kids
are taking PE. It may well be an issue of not wanting the complexity of
scheduleing if you allow kids choices -- certainly it would be more
complicated -- but I think it would be much more satisfying and good for
the kids if there were at least SOME sort of choice available,
especially for those who are not athletically inclined.

In my dd#3's PE classes, they did a lot of conditioning and running - ds
also. One doesn't have to be athletically inclined to benefit from that.
She didn't like doing it, but it was beneficial for her.

She was active in and skilled in individual sports, as her freshman year
she was doing combined training on the national level successfully. The
running helped her compete in ... having a senior moment .. one less sport
than pentathlons .. which in this case was running, swimming, shooting and
riding. They eliminated the fencing. So they had two endurance sports and
two skill sports.

grandma Rosalie