PE/Recess time mandates

In my son's gym classes, the dominant mentality was of kids who hated
anyone who excelled. He was a good athlete and even in sports he was
not very good at he loved to try his hardest.

Which seems to be the opposite of what others have been saying. The complaint
from other posters was that the poor athletes would lose out in team sports,
since they'd be laughed at. But you are saying that good athletes would be
hated.
So which is it?
(And why is this only an issue in sports? Should we also eliminate art? Music?
How about academics? THere will always be students who are talented and those
who are not, and who, depending on the mindset of their classmates, and the
atmosphere of the school, may be derided for their ability or lack there-of.)


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

In article , Chookie
says...

In article et,
"Amy" wrote:

These days,
lines in PE are a "no-no" as well as other "old time methods" such as
picking teams or using exercise as punishment and of course, the biggest PE
no-no of all time, dodgeball!

What's dodgeball? I remember incessant softball and volleyball (well, they
did more than that, but softball and volleyball seemed to have more time
devoted to them than the other sports!)

And I should ask you my perennial questions, as you have a professional
interest:

Can you suggest some good forms of exercise for two unsporty adults with a
2.5yo in tow?

If the 2.5 y/o is in tow, you're already 1/2 way there :-)

Now get on the bike with that bike-cart behind it, your hubby get on the other
bike, and pedal!


Do you know of any coping mechanisms for said unsporty mother when said 2.5yo
becomes interested in sporting activities? (I am having trouble coping with
throwing the ball in the back yard!)

Connect said sport kid with said sporty neighbors, sporty relatives, sport Cub
Scout parents, and coaches.

Cheers,
Banty (can't throw a ball much either)

All the while you're the material for the 'lesson plan', for the bad sports
as
well as the good. And you're 'opporunity to be a good sport Exhibit A' for
the
bad PE teacher as well as the good.


Well... yeah, this does assume you have a good teacher. (Bad teachers
shouldn't be allowed to teach any PE, team sports or otherwise....)

Going back to that music teacher for a minute, who flunked any student who
laughed.... Yes, music was an elective, and PE was a requirement in my high
school. I loved to sing when I started high school, but didn't think I was any
good at it. And hearing my own voice on tape didn't increase my confidence any.
Nor did the comments of my siblings and parents about my singing voice. But I
decided to take voice class. Took it for 2 years. ALso took choir for a couple
of years officially, and sing with it on an unofficial basis for another year.
(And sang in a music competition my senior year, even though I wasn't taking
voice that year [couldn't fit it into my schedule -- conflicted with AP bio],
the music teacher let me compete since he knew me already.) And it helped.
Immensely. I learned a lot about 'how' to sing properly. But, more importantly,
I got confidence from standing in front of my class-mates and singing, and
having them listen politely and applaud when I was finished.
Now, as an adult, I still don't have a fantastic singing voice. (And still have
a crappy ear. I need to take an ear-training class.) But I can carry a tune
comfortably. And I perform. In public. Both solo and with a chours. And enjoy
it. And people listen politely and with apparent enjoyment. And applaud when
I'm finished.

Point of this being -- learning to play sports in a PE class -- where winning
and losing really DOESN'T matter, is the setting where it SHOULD happen. ANd
yeah, it's the job of the teacher to make sure that the kids (all of them) know
that the point of the class is to learn, to do your best, to be physically
active for X-number of minutes, and to help your class-mates to do *their*
best. If they can't do that, they are in the wrong job.


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

In article , Naomi Pardue says...

In my son's gym classes, the dominant mentality was of kids who hated
anyone who excelled. He was a good athlete and even in sports he was
not very good at he loved to try his hardest.

Which seems to be the opposite of what others have been saying. The complaint
from other posters was that the poor athletes would lose out in team sports,
since they'd be laughed at. But you are saying that good athletes would be
hated.
So which is it?

Which what? Different people with different experiences.

*My* experience is that the excellers in *academic* subjects were resented, and
we'd catch heck about it in PE!

(And why is this only an issue in sports? Should we also eliminate art? Music?
How about academics? THere will always be students who are talented and those
who are not, and who, depending on the mindset of their classmates, and the
atmosphere of the school, may be derided for their ability or lack there-of.)

Well, I'm not for eliminating PE or team sports in PE (although I think PE
should be realistic about it and consider the team sport thing an exposure to
it, not more, and move on to what benefits more of the kids). But PE, like I
said before, is really well set up for those who would abuse other kids because
of its physicality and that it's in a more wide open space, while there may be
just one more instructor. Then there's the locker room, with kids having to
some extent disrobe, and stuff having to be left unattended. Choir or math
class just isn't like that.

PE is where you get 'unintentionally' bumped, the ball 'misses' and hits your
shoulder, stuff is 'lost' from the locker room, and you're a Big Baby if you say
boo about it.

Banty

Still, everyone has to take exactly the same PE, with
exactly the same mix of activities.

In my high school, for freshman and sophomore years, you cycled through a
variety of activities through the year (i.e., 6 weeks of swimming, 6 weeks of
track and field, 6 weeks of basketball and so on.) Jr and sr years you got
choices of, typically, 3 activities each section. I typically chose track or
swimming or softball. There was one period of time,during my senior year, I
don't recall why now, when we did not get a choice. We HAD to all play
volleyball. I loathe volleyball. Am utterly horrible at it (it's by far my
worst team sport...). And I rebelled. I said "I'm a senior. Seniors are
supposed to get choices in PE. I REFUSE to play volleyball!" And sat out the
class for two class sessions. And got F's for both those sessions. I wish I
could remember what happened after that... I don't *think* I caved, but I know
I didn't flunk PE either. ('cause if you flunk PE, you don't graduate, and I
obviously graduated.)






Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

Chookie wrote:

What's dodgeball?

Brutal, Lol. The whole point is to throw a ball *at* people, with the
intention of hitting them with it. If you don't dogde it, your out.

Can you suggest some good forms of exercise for two unsporty adults
with a
2.5yo in tow?

Hiking. Swimming. Those give the child exercise as well. If you are just
worried about yourself give the child a wagon ride, mine like that and I get
a walk in. Thinking ahead I have many great memories of my family taking
bike rides starting when we were a bit older (5/6 maybe).

Do you know of any coping mechanisms for said unsporty mother when
said 2.5yo becomes interested in sporting activities?

Yes, get him involved in team sports and then just sit and watch. This is my
plan, Lol. Work the concession stand, or bring a book for the down time.
See if you can find some enthusiastic ball person he can practice with and
then trade favors, like he does ball practice for you, you do make overs for
him ;-)

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

OSPAM (Naomi Pardue) wrote:

snip
(And why is this only an issue in sports? Should we also eliminate art? Music?
How about academics? THere will always be students who are talented and those
who are not, and who, depending on the mindset of their classmates, and the
atmosphere of the school, may be derided for their ability or lack there-of.)

Not with art or music AFAIK, but academics - yes. The kids who are good
students are called brains or geeks or whatever the words are now.
Generally the college prep kids may have less of that in HS where they are
in with other reasonably good students - but maybe not.


grandma Rosalie

Banty wrote:

In article , Chookie
says...
snip

Can you suggest some good forms of exercise for two unsporty adults with a
2.5yo in tow?

If the 2.5 y/o is in tow, you're already 1/2 way there :-)

Now get on the bike with that bike-cart behind it, your hubby get on the other
bike, and pedal!

Forms of exercise don't have to include sports. My dds exchange exercise
tapes, and do step aerobics and the like. There's also swimming, jogging
or walking (you can, I am informed, get jogging strollers) in addition to
biking as Banty suggests. There are also bowling leagues (although there's
not so much exercise in that), and mom and baby gym or dance classes


Do you know of any coping mechanisms for said unsporty mother when said 2.5yo
becomes interested in sporting activities? (I am having trouble coping with
throwing the ball in the back yard!)

Connect said sport kid with said sporty neighbors, sporty relatives, sport Cub
Scout parents, and coaches.

DD#2 who was a strong but not fast swimmer, and who had no ball playing
skills at all married a man who was a sports person, but who left the kids
schedules to her. She got the kid into Little League, and became a
scorekeeper - she knew all the rules and could explain them to other
parents. She also got coaching for the kid - took him to the batting cage
to practice.

And she put him in sports camps in the summer - tennis, golf etc. It
wasn't necessary for her to be able to throw a ball. All she had to do was
be good at finding resources and be able to pay for coaching. Actually,
her son was soon not allowed to do the sports in the back yard because of
too much danger to the windows of the neighborhood. They did have a
basketball hoop - portable. Sometimes he practiced that with his HS age
baby sitter.

I had my kids in LOTS of sports, but almost none of them involved ball
playing - gymnastics, swimming, ice skating, horseback riding etc. And
things like 4H square dancing, and ballet.


grandma Rosalie

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article zFHdb.4204$hp5.1888@fed1read04, Circe says...

"toto" wrote in message
.. .
On 27 Sep 2003 12:36:09 GMT, OSPAM (Naomi Pardue)
wrote:
Uhhh... so you don't think that it might be, in some way, helpful for
kids to
learn how to play soccer/softball/baseketball/volleyball/ etc.

Frankly, no. I see no reason to learn these games unless you like to
play
them.

But how would you ever know whether you like to play them if you don't
ever
learn to play them?

OK - Barbara - let's go parachute jumping TOMORROW. Then we'll go visit
Stever
Irwin and wrestle snakes. What?? Why not?? - how would you know if you
don't
try :-)

Well, actually, I'd be willing to try either one of those things, assuming I
could do them for free and the risks could be shown to be very low because,
frankly, I really don't think I can opine as to whether I like them or not
unless I try them.

You know, my kids think they know *on sight* whether they like particular
foods or not, but I try to get them to try things they're *sure* they'll
hate and, many times, I am rewarded for pushing because they turn out to
enjoy them. Personally, I think sports are the same way--you can't know from
watching other people play soccer whether you will like playing soccer any
more than you can know from watching other people eat sushi whether you'll
like sushi.

While I've allowed that a legit purpose of PE would be to expose kids to
various
sports, I can perfectly well understand that many people who don't like
athletics much, and/or dont' like team sports much, could reasonably
conclude
that they won't much like yet another team sport.

Ah, but how did people who don't like athletics or team sports much conclude
they didn't like them? By just *watching* other people play them or by
playing them themselves?

See, I was one of those kids who was always chosen last for team sports
because I wasn't very good at them. Then, as an adolescent, I discovered I
was quite good at the individual sport of competitive swimming. I was on the
swim team in high school, but didn't think I'd be very good at water polo
because it was a team sport, so I didn't bother to try to play. Then, in
college, I hung out with a bunch of people who played innertube water polo.
I finally decided to try it. It was a hoot. I then graduated to playing
"real" water polo and *loved* it. So I cheated myself of a lot of fun times
by being afraid I wouldn't like something without trying it. And for that
reason, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for the "I don't like team
sports and I never will so I won't even try" mentality.

Also - unless PE is set up for a substantially long time on a single sport
with
a substantial amount of coaching - the kids will not be learning how to
play the
sport anyway.

Nonsense. If the kids play a single soccer game once every other week or
over an entire school year, they'll get pretty good at soccer. By way of
comparison, our AYSO and NYS soccer teams usually practice once a week
before the games start, then taper off to playing only games towards the end
of the season. Most of the kids learn quite a lot about soccer in one hour
of playing/practicing per week over the course of three months. Surely over
the course of an entire year, even a bi-weekly game would go a long way
towards teaching the rudiments of the sport.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"She rose her eyebrows at Toby" -- from "O' Artful Death", by Sarah Stewart
Taylor

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
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"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
Well Dorothy did say - after elementary school that they should ought to
have a choice.

Should middle school children also have the choice of whether or not to take
English or Algebra?
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"She rose her eyebrows at Toby" -- from "O' Artful Death", by Sarah Stewart
Taylor

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman