appropriate age - music / ballet class

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 19:00:49 EDT, David desJardins
wrote:


Let's say, then, that there's a huge problem in how ballet is advertised
and promoted to small children. I have lots of picture books about
ballet, aimed at toddlers through preschool to early elementary ages,
and it's hard to find a single one in which all the dancers aren't
walking around on their toes most of the time, even children who appear
to be much younger than teenagers. My two-year-old daughter started
walking around on her toes, after reading many of these books.

After reading this thread, I noticed something today that will
probably add fuel to the fire. In _Barbie of Swan Lake_ they showed
several of the young characters (Kelly and friends dolls) dancing. In
one particular scene I watched their feet and these young girls were
dancing pointe. I'm sure it was an honest mistake, the animation is
based on the NYC ballet company and they likely filmed adult
ballerinas dancing this particular scene, but what it shows to young
children is that Kelly (who did not dance pointe in _Barbie in the
Nutcracker_) as a young girl can dance pointe. My 3 year old son has
been walking around on his toes ever since the first time he watched
_Barbie in the Nutcracker_ but I had hopes of breaking him of this
since the younger characters didn't dance pointe, now I won't have
much chance.


--
Cheryl
Mum to DS#1 (11 Mar 99), DS#2 (4 Oct 00)
and DD (30 Jul 02)

In article ,
"Cathy Kearns" wrote:

I have to agree with you there. I'm especially annoyed about the latest
flap at the Bolshoi, with the ballet telling the news organizations that
their prima ballerina was let go because she was too heavy to lift
at 110 lbs. Yeah right. In the recreational schools there are boys
lifting girls much heavier than 110 lbs. Are they trying to say the
men at the Bolshoi are wimpy? I think they should go with the
truth, there were working problems that had nothing whatsoever
to do with her weight, and 110 lbs isn't heavy. Calling 110 lbs at 5'6"
too heavy implied the ideal body the ballet profession is looking
for is even more ridiculous than it really is.


This is the very reason I steered my daughter away from ballet, and
gymnastics, too, when she started wanting to take lessons. She was
about four at the time, so it would have been a few years before it was
an issue, but we could see already that though she is a sturdy, athletic
child and anything but fat, she was never going to be the gymnastics or
ballet "type." The last thing I wanted in the world was for her to fall
in love with a certain activity, only to be barred from the top team, or
relegated to the back of the stage, when she was 8 or 9 or 10--or ever,
in fact--because she's big and strong rather than tiny and flexible.
It's one thing not to be a star because you decide there are things
you'd rather do than practice, and quite another to be rejected out of
hand because your body is wrong.

So she's doing martial arts at the moment--a sport apparently free of
body-type prejudice, at least at our school--and she has instructors,
men and women, of all shapes and sizes. And I expect that if she
decides she wants to, she'll eventually shine at sports like basketball
and volleyball and tennis and swimming, where her body type is welcomed.

"Elizabeth Gardner" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Cathy Kearns" wrote:

I have to agree with you there. I'm especially annoyed about the latest
flap at the Bolshoi, with the ballet telling the news organizations that
their prima ballerina was let go because she was too heavy to lift
at 110 lbs. Yeah right. In the recreational schools there are boys
lifting girls much heavier than 110 lbs. Are they trying to say the
men at the Bolshoi are wimpy? I think they should go with the
truth, there were working problems that had nothing whatsoever
to do with her weight, and 110 lbs isn't heavy. Calling 110 lbs at 5'6"
too heavy implied the ideal body the ballet profession is looking
for is even more ridiculous than it really is.


This is the very reason I steered my daughter away from ballet, and
gymnastics, too, when she started wanting to take lessons. She was
about four at the time, so it would have been a few years before it was
an issue, but we could see already that though she is a sturdy, athletic
child and anything but fat, she was never going to be the gymnastics or
ballet "type." The last thing I wanted in the world was for her to fall
in love with a certain activity, only to be barred from the top team, or
relegated to the back of the stage, when she was 8 or 9 or 10--or ever,
in fact--because she's big and strong rather than tiny and flexible.

Though I'm sure there are dance schools that would relegate 10 year
olds to the back row because they aren't sticks, I think those school
are already few and far between, and shrinking in number. My daughter
would go to dance competitions, and though I don't recommend them,
for other reasons, you would see that there are great dancers of
every shape and size, at the very top levels of their studios. Definitely
in the studio dance world, you put your best dancers in the front
no matter what size they are. And I have seen fantastic big athletic
dancers not only do well in the competitions, but make livings
teaching at competitions.

In professional modern dance size is also not important. And there
are many great modern dancers that are very athletic, but not at all
sinewy thin.

However, I would never steer a child away from any activity because
I thought they might not be able to take it up professionally. There
are many adult dancers that just love to dance, as well as adult
swimmers, softball players, athletes, and musicians, that don't
necessarily make a living at their favorite hobby. If my five year
old wanted to take gymnastics and the teachers are happy teaching
kids who won't be future olympic stars, then I'd go for it.

So she's doing martial arts at the moment--a sport apparently free of
body-type prejudice, at least at our school--and she has instructors,
men and women, of all shapes and sizes. And I expect that if she
decides she wants to, she'll eventually shine at sports like basketball
and volleyball and tennis and swimming, where her body type is welcomed.

Her body type is welcome many more places than you are assuming.

In article ,
"Cathy Kearns" wrote:

"Elizabeth Gardner" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Cathy Kearns" wrote:


However, I would never steer a child away from any activity because
I thought they might not be able to take it up professionally. There
are many adult dancers that just love to dance, as well as adult
swimmers, softball players, athletes, and musicians, that don't
necessarily make a living at their favorite hobby. If my five year
old wanted to take gymnastics and the teachers are happy teaching
kids who won't be future olympic stars, then I'd go for it.


That's the trick, though. The gymnastics programs in our area are fine
for five and six year olds, psychologically speaking, but the kids who
continue are soon separated out into competitive and noncompetitive
groups. If my daughter were noncompetitive by nature, I wouldn't mind
if she were shunted into the second group (as I think she probably would
be, from what I've observed of her flexibililty compared with other kids
her age), but she would really feel bad about it because she is, in
fact, highly competitive. I'm not sure how it would work out for dance
(though I'm pretty sure she'd be in the back row for ballet, for the
flexibility issue mentioned above).

There's plenty of time when she's a bit older for her to toughen up
about competitive situations. There's also plenty of time for her to
take up dance if that's where her bliss turns out to be. If there's
room in dance for all body types, then there's probably room for people
who didn't start when they were tykes. I'm comfortable that the
physical skills she's picking up through karate will be useful no matter
what other athletic activities she takes up. And while there are some
competitive elements to it (sparring, tournaments, etc.), the kids are
competing primarily against themselves rather than one another. I think
that's a healthier way to go, for my particular kid at this particular
point.

dragonlady wrote:
In article ,
(Splanche) wrote:

As a religious professional, I'd prefer that you explain that
church is a sort of religious cooperative: it takes money from
everybody to run it. Even if EVERYONE had money, you would still
have to pledge or put in the collection plate to maintain the
building (or pay rent), pay the staff, pay for the paper that the
newsletter is printed on, pay for the hymnals, heat the building,
pay for lights . . . giving at church, unless you are specifically
giving to a restricted fund, is not the same as charitable giving
to help support people who are poor, though your church may
opperate programs that do that with some of the collected funds, as
well.

I'm not sure how all churches work, but my synagogue has annual dues
(paid by check quarterly) that my child doesn't see. What she does
see is the money that
we put in the charity (tzedakah) box weekly.

I would assume that there are also some churches that are similar,
and that the
collections made there weekly are in fact stricly for charity. YMMV.
- Blanche


There may be some, but I am not aware of any; the church for which I
work does have one Sunday a month where the offering goes to a charity
selected by the board, and some have second collections for charity --
but I don't know of any that have dues to support the church;
generally, the $$ in the collection plate is part of what supports the
church.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you
care

they aren't dues, but what you have *pledged* to give. at the begining (or
just before) you were probably asked to pledge and tell the church how much
you were expecting to give during the year so that they would be able to
budget for the year. that should go in the envelope that they provide so
that they know who to attribute the money to, and also send you a receipt at
the end of the year for tax purposes. quite often the loose cash will go
towards extra things above and beyond the budget, or other charity type
things.
--
Edith
oht nak

In article ,
"E" wrote:



I'm not sure how all churches work, but my synagogue has annual dues
(paid by check quarterly) that my child doesn't see. What she does
see is the money that
we put in the charity (tzedakah) box weekly.

I would assume that there are also some churches that are similar,
and that the
collections made there weekly are in fact stricly for charity. YMMV.
- Blanche


There may be some, but I am not aware of any; the church for which I
work does have one Sunday a month where the offering goes to a charity
selected by the board, and some have second collections for charity --
but I don't know of any that have dues to support the church;
generally, the $$ in the collection plate is part of what supports the
church.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you
care

they aren't dues, but what you have *pledged* to give. at the begining (or
just before) you were probably asked to pledge and tell the church how much
you were expecting to give during the year so that they would be able to
budget for the year. that should go in the envelope that they provide so
that they know who to attribute the money to, and also send you a receipt at
the end of the year for tax purposes. quite often the loose cash will go
towards extra things above and beyond the budget, or other charity type
things.

The congregations which I have been close enough to to know how they
budget have all included "offering collections" as part of their
budgeting: we anticipate what we will collect over and above pledges,
and that is included in the "income" portion of our budget. Frankly,
it's been a (minor) problem for folks who want to pay in cash, but that
is an increasingly small percentage of the congregation.

We don't hand out pledge envelopes, either -- something that caught me
off guard. Most folks either mail their pledges in or put a check in
the offering plate clearly marked "pledge payment". Or, if you've got a
church that has gone higher tech, like us you have it electronically
transferred once a month. EFT makes life easier for everyone!

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care