is it me? (long)

I'm beginning to wonder if my family is nuts or is it me, since I'm the one
having all the problems (in their opinion). My dad called and told me to
meet at my brother's house anytime today. I happen to know my dad, planning
things without consulting anyone, springing it on last minute and then
expecting everyone to jump. So I asked him how does he know my brother will
be home. He says he'll be home. I asked if he talked to my brother, he
insists that my brother will be home because he lives there and we are
having a get-together tonight so he should be home cleaning up and getting
ready. I told him what if he's not home? My dad says that if he's not
home, he'll be nearby (he actually doesn't know that, my brother might be an
hour away for all he cares) and come home and open the door for me and I can
stay there with the kids and wait. I told him I might be waiting for two
hours. Then he goes off on me about how difficult I am and how we are
family and we can come anytime and I should call my brother and make
arrangements and how I need to respect my parents and on and on. I wasn't
arguing with him. I told him I don't mind calling my brother. I don't mind
going to my brother's house. I don't want to be told to go to my brother's
house when he has no clue if my brother will be home.

I called my brother and my brother did not know I was invited to come over
early. He went home to get the house ready for the party. I asked if it
was better to bring the kids later when the party started so he could get
ready, since they would be wanting his attention and he said yes.

Also, my brother told me the party starts at 7pm, not 6pm like my dad told
me. I know my dad wants me to be there early so my mom can see the kids. I
think that should be my prerogative to come early, not my dad's to make my
plans for me. I don't know how many times I've come on time to find I am an
hour early only to find that he arranged it that way. Okay, maybe she asked
him to do it. I don't know. I'd rather he just be honest, since at this
point, I really don't mind coming to a function early for her to see the
kids. We haven't had any problems. I don't like being lied to, never have.

So, my dad told me to go to my brother's house anytime in the afternoon. My
brother did not know. I knew my dad was like that, which is why I
questioned him. I told my dad I didn't like that. That is why he is all
upset. DH says it's probably because I'm the only one in the family who
doesn't jump when he says jump. All my cousins, aunts, my mom, brothers and
uncles jump because he supports everyone with money and jobs and
sponsorships. I'm not asking for much. I just don't think it's right for
him to expect me to show up at my brother's door unexpectedly with my family
in tow (and I might have expected he be there since Dad told me to come),
wait for my brother to come driving in from wherever he is and wait at his
house when he's cleaning up.

So, knowing how he is, maybe I shouldn't have questioned him, but I've had
enough of him thinking my time is less valuable than his. I just want a
little respect for my time and my brother's time (who is also being yanked
around at my dad's whim, but he owes him for stating him a business).

BTW, the party is for my cousin visiting from overseas. I definitely want
to be there.

In article , toypup says...

I'm beginning to wonder if my family is nuts or is it me, since I'm the one
having all the problems (in their opinion). My dad called and told me to
meet at my brother's house anytime today. I happen to know my dad, planning
things without consulting anyone, springing it on last minute and then
expecting everyone to jump. So I asked him how does he know my brother will
be home. He says he'll be home. I asked if he talked to my brother, he
insists that my brother will be home because he lives there and we are
having a get-together tonight so he should be home cleaning up and getting
ready. I told him what if he's not home? My dad says that if he's not
home, he'll be nearby (he actually doesn't know that, my brother might be an
hour away for all he cares) and come home and open the door for me and I can
stay there with the kids and wait. I told him I might be waiting for two
hours. Then he goes off on me about how difficult I am and how we are
family and we can come anytime and I should call my brother and make
arrangements and how I need to respect my parents and on and on. I wasn't
arguing with him. I told him I don't mind calling my brother. I don't mind
going to my brother's house. I don't want to be told to go to my brother's
house when he has no clue if my brother will be home.

I called my brother and my brother did not know I was invited to come over
early. He went home to get the house ready for the party. I asked if it
was better to bring the kids later when the party started so he could get
ready, since they would be wanting his attention and he said yes.

Also, my brother told me the party starts at 7pm, not 6pm like my dad told
me. I know my dad wants me to be there early so my mom can see the kids. I
think that should be my prerogative to come early, not my dad's to make my
plans for me. I don't know how many times I've come on time to find I am an
hour early only to find that he arranged it that way. Okay, maybe she asked
him to do it. I don't know. I'd rather he just be honest, since at this
point, I really don't mind coming to a function early for her to see the
kids. We haven't had any problems. I don't like being lied to, never have.

So, my dad told me to go to my brother's house anytime in the afternoon. My
brother did not know. I knew my dad was like that, which is why I
questioned him. I told my dad I didn't like that. That is why he is all
upset. DH says it's probably because I'm the only one in the family who
doesn't jump when he says jump. All my cousins, aunts, my mom, brothers and
uncles jump because he supports everyone with money and jobs and
sponsorships. I'm not asking for much. I just don't think it's right for
him to expect me to show up at my brother's door unexpectedly with my family
in tow (and I might have expected he be there since Dad told me to come),
wait for my brother to come driving in from wherever he is and wait at his
house when he's cleaning up.

So, knowing how he is, maybe I shouldn't have questioned him, but I've had
enough of him thinking my time is less valuable than his. I just want a
little respect for my time and my brother's time (who is also being yanked
around at my dad's whim, but he owes him for stating him a business).

BTW, the party is for my cousin visiting from overseas. I definitely want
to be there.


Yeah I think he's used to bending people around to whatever he has in mind. I
also have found IME that you can't convince these folks of what kinds of
problems their ways cause others. Like you found with the "family can drop in
anytime" reasoning, this kind of behavior is pretty much well rationalized.

So what you do is simply draw your boundaries. Don't go in with him over how he
can't take for granted that your brother would be home. That's trying to
convince him. He's not going to be convinced. So what you do instead is just
to state that you have other plans (even housework and/or relaxing are plans!)
that don't allow you to go over to your brother's house on such short notice.

Banty

"Banty" wrote in message
...
Yeah I think he's used to bending people around to whatever he has in
mind. I
also have found IME that you can't convince these folks of what kinds of
problems their ways cause others. Like you found with the "family can
drop in
anytime" reasoning, this kind of behavior is pretty much well
rationalized.

So what you do is simply draw your boundaries. Don't go in with him over
how he
can't take for granted that your brother would be home. That's trying to
convince him. He's not going to be convinced. So what you do instead is
just
to state that you have other plans (even housework and/or relaxing are
plans!)
that don't allow you to go over to your brother's house on such short
notice.

It wasn't that I couldn't go on short notice. It was that I would have gone
expecting my brother to be there, expecting him to expect me to come, and he
would not have known I was invited over. He could have been out an hour
away coming home just before the party started or some such scenario. I
could be on his front porch waiting with the entire family putting both he
and I in a tough spot. I only asked that my dad not tell me to come over
(implying he's made all the arrangements) when he has no clue that my
brother was even going to be home. I could come early, no problem, as long
as my brother knew and was okay with it.

In article , toypup says...



"Banty" wrote in message
...
Yeah I think he's used to bending people around to whatever he has in
mind. I
also have found IME that you can't convince these folks of what kinds of
problems their ways cause others. Like you found with the "family can
drop in
anytime" reasoning, this kind of behavior is pretty much well
rationalized.

So what you do is simply draw your boundaries. Don't go in with him over
how he
can't take for granted that your brother would be home. That's trying to
convince him. He's not going to be convinced. So what you do instead is
just
to state that you have other plans (even housework and/or relaxing are
plans!)
that don't allow you to go over to your brother's house on such short
notice.

It wasn't that I couldn't go on short notice. It was that I would have gone
expecting my brother to be there, expecting him to expect me to come, and he
would not have known I was invited over. He could have been out an hour
away coming home just before the party started or some such scenario. I
could be on his front porch waiting with the entire family putting both he
and I in a tough spot. I only asked that my dad not tell me to come over
(implying he's made all the arrangements) when he has no clue that my
brother was even going to be home. I could come early, no problem, as long
as my brother knew and was okay with it.


I know! I understand that the problem wasn't exactly that you couldn't go on
short notice. I understand that it's him assuming where everyone will be and
what everyone will be doing and directing things around accordingly.

But he doesn't let you tell him what the real problem is, does he!

Newsflash - you don't have to tell people the real reason why you can't go or do
something! Saying you're busy or tied up otherwise is the time-honored excuse
out of something that's intrusive or badly set up (like these third-party
invitations from your dad.) That also means you're not obligated to do what you
*would* do. You don't have to say you can't do things because you actually
can't. Many times people perceive some obligation or issue some invite that,
although you *could* do it, or even *would* do it, there is some problem with
their invite, or that they inappropriately perceive that obligation, you may
decide to tell them you can't do it!

You need to draw these boundaries to prevent folks like your dad from bending
you around if they're in the habit to do it.

If telling him you have other plans is something you're not comfortable with
(but again, housework and relaxing and reading a book are plans, too!), then
maybe tell him you want the brother to issue invites to his own house, not a
third party. But I tell you, that's probably not going to work; that's going to
trying to convince your dad again.

In a nutshell, referring to your subject line - it's not you, but it's sorta you
because you don't know how to deflect it. It's a two-way dance.

Banty

"toypup" wrote:
"Banty" wrote in message
...
Yeah I think he's used to bending people around to whatever he has in
mind. I
also have found IME that you can't convince these folks of what kinds of
problems their ways cause others. Like you found with the "family can
drop in
anytime" reasoning, this kind of behavior is pretty much well
rationalized.

So what you do is simply draw your boundaries. Don't go in with him over
how he
can't take for granted that your brother would be home. That's trying to
convince him. He's not going to be convinced. So what you do instead is
just
to state that you have other plans (even housework and/or relaxing are
plans!)
that don't allow you to go over to your brother's house on such short
notice.

It wasn't that I couldn't go on short notice. It was that I would have gone
expecting my brother to be there, expecting him to expect me to come, and he
would not have known I was invited over. He could have been out an hour
away coming home just before the party started or some such scenario. I
could be on his front porch waiting with the entire family putting both he
and I in a tough spot. I only asked that my dad not tell me to come over
(implying he's made all the arrangements) when he has no clue that my
brother was even going to be home. I could come early, no problem, as long
as my brother knew and was okay with it.

Banty is right, though. Whether you could go or not isn't the point,
and argu.. ... er discussing it with him is not productive. He has
this idea in his mind, and you are not going to change it by asking
questions.

Just tell him that you will see what you can do (or just tell him that
you may not be able to change your plans on such short notice without
being specific) and then stonewall him right back (that's what he is
doing to you) over the issue - not being drawn into discussing whether
your brother is home or what your 'plans' are and not promising
anything, and then call your brother yourself and find out.

The other thing you might do, if you have an idea WHY he is asking for
whatever it is, is to ask him directly - Do you want me to go early to
my brother's house so that my mom can see the children before the
party?" or whatever you think the reason is. Have you ever done that?
What would he say if you did that?

toypup wrote:

So, knowing how he is, maybe I shouldn't have questioned him, but I've
had enough of him thinking my time is less valuable than his. I just
want a little respect for my time and my brother's time (who is also
being yanked around at my dad's whim, but he owes him for stating him a
business).

Given that you know the situation, I'm not sure why
you would engage in these sorts of discussions with him.
If anything, I'd tell him that I'd check my schedule and get
back with him. Then, call brother, decide what you're going
to do, and call him back to say you'll meet him at brother's
house at a certain time, or you'll meet them somewhere else
so they can play with the kids in advance of the party
without disturbing brother, or you'll be meeting them at
the part at the official start time, or whatever you decide
to do. I think you invite these sorts of power struggles
when you engage in them like this. Hear his request, make
your own decision, tell him what you're going to do, and
refuse to get involved in the whys and wherefores. I know
that's not always easily done, and sounds like there's a
good chance he'll press you on the whys and wherefores and
try to get you to change your mind, but you're a grownup
and you can stand your ground and simply say, "I'm sorry,
that's simply not possible" and keep repeating it (or
some variant) as often as needed.

Best wishes,
Ericka

toypup wrote:

It wasn't that I couldn't go on short notice. It was that I would have
gone expecting my brother to be there, expecting him to expect me to
come, and he would not have known I was invited over. He could have
been out an hour away coming home just before the party started or some
such scenario. I could be on his front porch waiting with the entire
family putting both he and I in a tough spot. I only asked that my dad
not tell me to come over (implying he's made all the arrangements) when
he has no clue that my brother was even going to be home. I could come
early, no problem, as long as my brother knew and was okay with it.

But you *knew* that it was likely your brother didn't
know about this, and you knew your father knew your brother
didn't know about this, and yet you tried to get your father
to agree with you that he was doing something unreasonable.
Forget that! He's not likely to turn over a new leaf and
say, "Wow, you know, you're right! I *am* being inconsiderate.
Hang on a sec while I call your brother and make sure this is
ok with him." It's not going to happen, so why go round and round
that tree? Just tell him you'll check your calendar and get
back with him in a few minutes and call your brother yourself.

Best wishes,
Ericka

In article , Ericka Kammerer
says...

toypup wrote:

It wasn't that I couldn't go on short notice. It was that I would have
gone expecting my brother to be there, expecting him to expect me to
come, and he would not have known I was invited over. He could have
been out an hour away coming home just before the party started or some
such scenario. I could be on his front porch waiting with the entire
family putting both he and I in a tough spot. I only asked that my dad
not tell me to come over (implying he's made all the arrangements) when
he has no clue that my brother was even going to be home. I could come
early, no problem, as long as my brother knew and was okay with it.

But you *knew* that it was likely your brother didn't
know about this, and you knew your father knew your brother
didn't know about this, and yet you tried to get your father
to agree with you that he was doing something unreasonable.
Forget that! He's not likely to turn over a new leaf and
say, "Wow, you know, you're right! I *am* being inconsiderate.
Hang on a sec while I call your brother and make sure this is
ok with him." It's not going to happen, so why go round and round
that tree? Just tell him you'll check your calendar and get
back with him in a few minutes and call your brother yourself.

I like this idea for deflecting things - saying one needs to check one's
calendar.

I wonder how it would work one the same day as the invite (or demand). One
would be expected to know the day's plans on that day. And the calling around
to see what the situation is may be great, or backfire, depending on how the
brother views all of this. He might be happy to let dad make the plans and bend
around to them, or just be in long habit of doing it and not imagining any other
way.

Not criticisms, just observations..

Banty

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , toypup says...

It wasn't that I couldn't go on short notice. It was that I would have
gone
expecting my brother to be there, expecting him to expect me to come, and
he
would not have known I was invited over. He could have been out an hour
away coming home just before the party started or some such scenario. I
could be on his front porch waiting with the entire family putting both he
and I in a tough spot. I only asked that my dad not tell me to come over
(implying he's made all the arrangements) when he has no clue that my
brother was even going to be home. I could come early, no problem, as
long
as my brother knew and was okay with it.


I know! I understand that the problem wasn't exactly that you couldn't go
on
short notice. I understand that it's him assuming where everyone will be
and
what everyone will be doing and directing things around accordingly.

But he doesn't let you tell him what the real problem is, does he!

Newsflash - you don't have to tell people the real reason why you can't go
or do
something! Saying you're busy or tied up otherwise is the time-honored
excuse
out of something that's intrusive or badly set up (like these third-party
invitations from your dad.) That also means you're not obligated to do
what you
*would* do. You don't have to say you can't do things because you
actually
can't. Many times people perceive some obligation or issue some invite
that,
although you *could* do it, or even *would* do it, there is some problem
with
their invite, or that they inappropriately perceive that obligation, you
may
decide to tell them you can't do it!

You need to draw these boundaries to prevent folks like your dad from
bending
you around if they're in the habit to do it.

If telling him you have other plans is something you're not comfortable
with
(but again, housework and relaxing and reading a book are plans, too!),
then
maybe tell him you want the brother to issue invites to his own house, not
a
third party. But I tell you, that's probably not going to work; that's
going to
trying to convince your dad again.

In a nutshell, referring to your subject line - it's not you, but it's
sorta you
because you don't know how to deflect it. It's a two-way dance.

Not really. The problem is that he is fully offended that I am the only one
in the family who doesn't jump when he says jump. I am the only one who
will tell him I'm too busy or what not. I don't make up excuses, but if I
can't go, I let him know. I don't have a problem setting boundaries in that
way. I plainly told him he should not invite me to my brother's house when
he doesn't know if my brother will be home and that is what he exploded
over. I am happy to come to my brother's house anytime, so there is no
reason for me to be too busy for that.

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...

Banty is right, though. Whether you could go or not isn't the point,
and argu.. ... er discussing it with him is not productive. He has
this idea in his mind, and you are not going to change it by asking
questions.

Just tell him that you will see what you can do (or just tell him that
you may not be able to change your plans on such short notice without
being specific) and then stonewall him right back (that's what he is
doing to you) over the issue - not being drawn into discussing whether
your brother is home or what your 'plans' are and not promising
anything, and then call your brother yourself and find out.

You're right, I should never take these invitations at face value. I should
not question Dad. I should just call my brother. I should just try and
remember that.


The other thing you might do, if you have an idea WHY he is asking for
whatever it is, is to ask him directly - Do you want me to go early to
my brother's house so that my mom can see the children before the
party?" or whatever you think the reason is. Have you ever done that?
What would he say if you did that?

No, but he would probably be upset I was questioning his motives.