If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
The Age of Autism: The Amish Elephant
Coleah wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message ... Yes, hypotheses are meant to be investigated. Take a look how Amish education is delivered in the US. They are actually *exempt* from the mandatory attendance laws, and, by extension, I would suspect that they would also be exempt from I.D.E.A. Thus, the Aspergers, etc. would fit in with their culture and not be readily identified as having a LD. My Grandson has mild Aspergers and one of my brothers does as well, although we didn't 'identify' it with a name until the Grandson came along and was diagnosed. We never could put a finger on what it was about my brother other than he was a bit odd in his behavior, extremely knowledgable about scores for sport games (back for decades, local/state/national) and read the dictionary for fun and wasn't interactive in social atmospheres. When the Grandson's doctor described the symptoms and asked if anyone else in the family had similar characteristics, it was one of those 'Bingo' moments. Brother managed to make it in life to age 70 without any medication, however he never drove a car and was limited in his experiences in life. The Grandson was placed on medication and able to focus on more than one obsessive interest, expanded his horizons socially and even flew an air plane at age 14. Definitely not something my brother would have ever taken on. So I understand what you are saying about fitting in with a 'culture' and not readily being identified as having a LD. [BTW, though my brother never graduated from high school, married or took on all the expenses that usually go along with life (driving a car, making house payments, repairs, insurance, replacement, etc) and lived in the same apartment for 27 years, he saved enough to retire at 50, lives in a $5,200/month assisted living center in his old age which he pays for out of his own pocket and he still he has hundreds of thousands in savings. A learning disability ??? Sounds like he did well in his own way. What sort of work did he perform (just curious)? My only friend who could retire at age 50 was able to do that because his business was bought out by Georgia Pacific when he was 40 and the payment, in their stock, sky rocketed afterwards. Want a picture of his yacht? |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
The Age of Autism: The Amish Elephant
"Mark Probert" wrote in message ... Coleah wrote: "Mark Probert" wrote in message ... Yes, hypotheses are meant to be investigated. Take a look how Amish education is delivered in the US. They are actually *exempt* from the mandatory attendance laws, and, by extension, I would suspect that they would also be exempt from I.D.E.A. Thus, the Aspergers, etc. would fit in with their culture and not be readily identified as having a LD. My Grandson has mild Aspergers and one of my brothers does as well, although we didn't 'identify' it with a name until the Grandson came along and was diagnosed. We never could put a finger on what it was about my brother other than he was a bit odd in his behavior, extremely knowledgable about scores for sport games (back for decades, local/state/national) and read the dictionary for fun and wasn't interactive in social atmospheres. When the Grandson's doctor described the symptoms and asked if anyone else in the family had similar characteristics, it was one of those 'Bingo' moments. Brother managed to make it in life to age 70 without any medication, however he never drove a car and was limited in his experiences in life. The Grandson was placed on medication and able to focus on more than one obsessive interest, expanded his horizons socially and even flew an air plane at age 14. Definitely not something my brother would have ever taken on. So I understand what you are saying about fitting in with a 'culture' and not readily being identified as having a LD. [BTW, though my brother never graduated from high school, married or took on all the expenses that usually go along with life (driving a car, making house payments, repairs, insurance, replacement, etc) and lived in the same apartment for 27 years, he saved enough to retire at 50, lives in a $5,200/month assisted living center in his old age which he pays for out of his own pocket and he still he has hundreds of thousands in savings. A learning disability ??? Sounds like he did well in his own way. What sort of work did he perform (just curious)? My only friend who could retire at age 50 was able to do that because his business was bought out by Georgia Pacific when he was 40 and the payment, in their stock, sky rocketed afterwards. Want a picture of his yacht? He delivered furniture for a big department store (he obviously wasn't the 'driver'), and used his muscles to make a living. He was an avid walker or took buses for very long distances. His 'social life' was going to the bank, the barber and a restaurant once a week. He's lost both legs to diabetes and is now the volunteer 'paperboy' delivering the morning newspaper in his wheel chair to other residents at the assisted living center. |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
The Age of Autism: The Amish Elephant
Coleah wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message ... Coleah wrote: "Mark Probert" wrote in message ... Yes, hypotheses are meant to be investigated. Take a look how Amish education is delivered in the US. They are actually *exempt* from the mandatory attendance laws, and, by extension, I would suspect that they would also be exempt from I.D.E.A. Thus, the Aspergers, etc. would fit in with their culture and not be readily identified as having a LD. My Grandson has mild Aspergers and one of my brothers does as well, although we didn't 'identify' it with a name until the Grandson came along and was diagnosed. We never could put a finger on what it was about my brother other than he was a bit odd in his behavior, extremely knowledgable about scores for sport games (back for decades, local/state/national) and read the dictionary for fun and wasn't interactive in social atmospheres. When the Grandson's doctor described the symptoms and asked if anyone else in the family had similar characteristics, it was one of those 'Bingo' moments. Brother managed to make it in life to age 70 without any medication, however he never drove a car and was limited in his experiences in life. The Grandson was placed on medication and able to focus on more than one obsessive interest, expanded his horizons socially and even flew an air plane at age 14. Definitely not something my brother would have ever taken on. So I understand what you are saying about fitting in with a 'culture' and not readily being identified as having a LD. [BTW, though my brother never graduated from high school, married or took on all the expenses that usually go along with life (driving a car, making house payments, repairs, insurance, replacement, etc) and lived in the same apartment for 27 years, he saved enough to retire at 50, lives in a $5,200/month assisted living center in his old age which he pays for out of his own pocket and he still he has hundreds of thousands in savings. A learning disability ??? Sounds like he did well in his own way. What sort of work did he perform (just curious)? My only friend who could retire at age 50 was able to do that because his business was bought out by Georgia Pacific when he was 40 and the payment, in their stock, sky rocketed afterwards. Want a picture of his yacht? He delivered furniture for a big department store (he obviously wasn't the 'driver'), and used his muscles to make a living. He was an avid walker or took buses for very long distances. His 'social life' was going to the bank, the barber and a restaurant once a week. He's lost both legs to diabetes and is now the volunteer 'paperboy' delivering the morning newspaper in his wheel chair to other residents at the assisted living center. Interesting. I have spoken with people who have similar relatives, and, when the relatives developed problems such as diabetes, they were unable to adequately care for themselves and had similar problems. |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
The Age of Autism: The Amish Elephant
"Mark Probert" wrote in message ... Coleah wrote: "Mark Probert" wrote in message ... Coleah wrote: "Mark Probert" wrote in message ... Yes, hypotheses are meant to be investigated. Take a look how Amish education is delivered in the US. They are actually *exempt* from the mandatory attendance laws, and, by extension, I would suspect that they would also be exempt from I.D.E.A. Thus, the Aspergers, etc. would fit in with their culture and not be readily identified as having a LD. My Grandson has mild Aspergers and one of my brothers does as well, although we didn't 'identify' it with a name until the Grandson came along and was diagnosed. We never could put a finger on what it was about my brother other than he was a bit odd in his behavior, extremely knowledgable about scores for sport games (back for decades, local/state/national) and read the dictionary for fun and wasn't interactive in social atmospheres. When the Grandson's doctor described the symptoms and asked if anyone else in the family had similar characteristics, it was one of those 'Bingo' moments. Brother managed to make it in life to age 70 without any medication, however he never drove a car and was limited in his experiences in life. The Grandson was placed on medication and able to focus on more than one obsessive interest, expanded his horizons socially and even flew an air plane at age 14. Definitely not something my brother would have ever taken on. So I understand what you are saying about fitting in with a 'culture' and not readily being identified as having a LD. [BTW, though my brother never graduated from high school, married or took on all the expenses that usually go along with life (driving a car, making house payments, repairs, insurance, replacement, etc) and lived in the same apartment for 27 years, he saved enough to retire at 50, lives in a $5,200/month assisted living center in his old age which he pays for out of his own pocket and he still he has hundreds of thousands in savings. A learning disability ??? Sounds like he did well in his own way. What sort of work did he perform (just curious)? My only friend who could retire at age 50 was able to do that because his business was bought out by Georgia Pacific when he was 40 and the payment, in their stock, sky rocketed afterwards. Want a picture of his yacht? He delivered furniture for a big department store (he obviously wasn't the 'driver'), and used his muscles to make a living. He was an avid walker or took buses for very long distances. His 'social life' was going to the bank, the barber and a restaurant once a week. He's lost both legs to diabetes and is now the volunteer 'paperboy' delivering the morning newspaper in his wheel chair to other residents at the assisted living center. Interesting. I have spoken with people who have similar relatives, and, when the relatives developed problems such as diabetes, they were unable to adequately care for themselves and had similar problems. Exactly. He once called an 911 because he cut himself shaving and it wouldn't stop bleeding. He caught such hell from the EMT's that he didn't go to the emergency room until his toes were turning black. I didn't live in the same state or I've have been watching over him more closely. His social skills are classic for Asperger's and his method of communicating a bit tilted from the 'norm'. We had to talk with the grandson about his social skills and tell him how inviting someone to come over to play didn't mean that they would enjoy watching HIM play a video game all by himself. Likewise, once when the grandson met a person for the first time because he'd heard us talking about the person's interest in playing chess, he didn't say 'glad to meet you, I hear you play chess'......he just when right into asking about some chess move or strategy, right out of left field. So much for all that 'social' stuff, just cut right to the chase g. Out of 6 grandkids, he is the only one with Aspergers Syndrome. |
#35
|
|||
|
|||
The Age of Autism: The Amish Elephant
HCN wrote:
(removed Breast Implant newsgroup since it does not seem to have any relevance to this discussion) wrote in message oups.com... HCN wrote: So how to you count something in a time (like the 1970's) before there is even an agreement of what the definition is? Before DSM IV there was no Btw, the DSM IV wasn't published until 1991. Autism explosion goes back earlier than that. Please provide references, since the DSM-IV was published in 1994 (you are three years off): http://www.nasponline.org/publications/cq268autism.html Thanks for the reference. Note that since I was three years off, that makes the argument even stronger that DSM-IV had nothing to do with the "autism epidemic", except that it was probably in response to something being observed out in the field. |
#36
|
|||
|
|||
The Age of Autism: The Amish Elephant
wrote in message oups.com... HCN wrote: (removed Breast Implant newsgroup since it does not seem to have any relevance to this discussion) wrote in message oups.com... HCN wrote: So how to you count something in a time (like the 1970's) before there is even an agreement of what the definition is? Before DSM IV there was no Btw, the DSM IV wasn't published until 1991. Autism explosion goes back earlier than that. Please provide references, since the DSM-IV was published in 1994 (you are three years off): http://www.nasponline.org/publications/cq268autism.html Thanks for the reference. Note that since I was three years off, that makes the argument even stronger that DSM-IV had nothing to do with the "autism epidemic", except that it was probably in response to something being observed out in the field. The observations were often from schools... especially since a specific law went into effect. Now think of what that might be... the first version was in 1975 with a rather politically incorrect title, and has been revised several times. What was that? Also where are you getting YOUR numbers from? You've yet to post the reference. For all we know you are just making it up. |
#37
|
|||
|
|||
The Age of Autism: The Amish Elephant
Mark Probert wrote:
It's imprecise, but can be done. Talk to (honest) pediatricians, school teachers and such who have been around for a while. You will find a general consensus (in the USA) that something has definitely gone wrong over this time period. Do I need to point out that this is an utterly fallacious argument and impossible to profe. You compounded the fallacy by implying that the ones who disagree are not honest. This is a valid argument -- as I didn't make it very clear perhaps that I was presenting a suggestion, not an agrument. This was meant to help other people of good faith form better informed opinions, instead of relying upon single "authoratitive" sources. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
HP: Outstanding Thread on Autism / Mercury Debate ... | Ilena Rose | Kids Health | 0 | July 28th 05 07:26 PM |
The Not-So-Crackpot Autism Theory | Ilena Rose | Kids Health | 31 | February 12th 05 01:43 AM |
MMR report 'not denial of autism link' | john | Kids Health | 0 | October 11th 04 03:06 PM |
NYTIMES: More and More Autism Cases, Yet Causes Are Much Debated | Ilena | Kids Health | 27 | February 23rd 04 02:32 PM |
[asaphilly] New Children's Book and Autism Awareness Mdse Avail from GrPhila ASA | PabloMas246 | Kids Health | 0 | January 23rd 04 01:57 AM |