The Age of Autism: The Amish Elephant

Coleah wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...


Yes, hypotheses are meant to be investigated. Take a look how Amish
education is delivered in the US. They are actually *exempt* from the
mandatory attendance laws, and, by extension, I would suspect that they
would also be exempt from I.D.E.A. Thus, the Aspergers, etc. would fit in
with their culture and not be readily identified as having a LD.


My Grandson has mild Aspergers and one of my brothers does as well,
although we didn't 'identify' it with a name until the Grandson came along
and was diagnosed.

We never could put a finger on what it was about my brother other than he
was a bit odd in his behavior, extremely knowledgable about scores for
sport games (back for decades, local/state/national) and read the dictionary
for fun and wasn't interactive in social atmospheres. When the Grandson's
doctor described the symptoms and asked if anyone else in the family
had similar characteristics, it was one of those 'Bingo' moments.

Brother managed to make it in life to age 70 without any medication, however
he never drove a car and was limited in his experiences in life. The
Grandson
was placed on medication and able to focus on more than one obsessive
interest,
expanded his horizons socially and even flew an air plane at age 14.
Definitely
not something my brother would have ever taken on.

So I understand what you are saying about fitting in with a 'culture' and
not
readily being identified as having a LD. [BTW, though my brother
never graduated from high school, married or took on all the expenses that
usually go along with life (driving a car, making house payments, repairs,
insurance, replacement, etc) and lived in the same apartment for 27 years,
he
saved enough to retire at 50, lives in a $5,200/month assisted living center
in his old age which he pays for out of his own pocket and he still he has
hundreds of thousands in savings. A learning disability ???


Sounds like he did well in his own way. What sort of work did he perform
(just curious)?

My only friend who could retire at age 50 was able to do that because
his business was bought out by Georgia Pacific when he was 40 and the
payment, in their stock, sky rocketed afterwards. Want a picture of his
yacht?

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
Coleah wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...


Yes, hypotheses are meant to be investigated. Take a look how Amish
education is delivered in the US. They are actually *exempt* from the
mandatory attendance laws, and, by extension, I would suspect that they
would also be exempt from I.D.E.A. Thus, the Aspergers, etc. would fit in
with their culture and not be readily identified as having a LD.


My Grandson has mild Aspergers and one of my brothers does as well,
although we didn't 'identify' it with a name until the Grandson came
along
and was diagnosed.

We never could put a finger on what it was about my brother other than he
was a bit odd in his behavior, extremely knowledgable about scores for
sport games (back for decades, local/state/national) and read the
dictionary
for fun and wasn't interactive in social atmospheres. When the Grandson's
doctor described the symptoms and asked if anyone else in the family
had similar characteristics, it was one of those 'Bingo' moments.

Brother managed to make it in life to age 70 without any medication,
however
he never drove a car and was limited in his experiences in life. The
Grandson
was placed on medication and able to focus on more than one obsessive
interest,
expanded his horizons socially and even flew an air plane at age 14.
Definitely
not something my brother would have ever taken on.

So I understand what you are saying about fitting in with a 'culture' and
not
readily being identified as having a LD. [BTW, though my brother
never graduated from high school, married or took on all the expenses
that
usually go along with life (driving a car, making house payments,
repairs,
insurance, replacement, etc) and lived in the same apartment for 27
years, he
saved enough to retire at 50, lives in a $5,200/month assisted living
center
in his old age which he pays for out of his own pocket and he still he
has
hundreds of thousands in savings. A learning disability ???


Sounds like he did well in his own way. What sort of work did he perform
(just curious)?

My only friend who could retire at age 50 was able to do that because his
business was bought out by Georgia Pacific when he was 40 and the payment,
in their stock, sky rocketed afterwards. Want a picture of his yacht?

He delivered furniture for a big department store (he obviously wasn't
the 'driver'), and used his muscles to make a living. He was an avid walker
or took buses for very long distances. His 'social life' was going to the
bank, the barber and a restaurant once a week.

He's lost both legs to diabetes and is now the volunteer 'paperboy'
delivering
the morning newspaper in his wheel chair to other residents at the assisted
living center.

Coleah wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...

Coleah wrote:

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...



Yes, hypotheses are meant to be investigated. Take a look how Amish
education is delivered in the US. They are actually *exempt* from the
mandatory attendance laws, and, by extension, I would suspect that they
would also be exempt from I.D.E.A. Thus, the Aspergers, etc. would fit in
with their culture and not be readily identified as having a LD.


My Grandson has mild Aspergers and one of my brothers does as well,
although we didn't 'identify' it with a name until the Grandson came
along
and was diagnosed.

We never could put a finger on what it was about my brother other than he
was a bit odd in his behavior, extremely knowledgable about scores for
sport games (back for decades, local/state/national) and read the
dictionary
for fun and wasn't interactive in social atmospheres. When the Grandson's
doctor described the symptoms and asked if anyone else in the family
had similar characteristics, it was one of those 'Bingo' moments.

Brother managed to make it in life to age 70 without any medication,
however
he never drove a car and was limited in his experiences in life. The
Grandson
was placed on medication and able to focus on more than one obsessive
interest,
expanded his horizons socially and even flew an air plane at age 14.
Definitely
not something my brother would have ever taken on.

So I understand what you are saying about fitting in with a 'culture' and
not
readily being identified as having a LD. [BTW, though my brother
never graduated from high school, married or took on all the expenses
that
usually go along with life (driving a car, making house payments,
repairs,
insurance, replacement, etc) and lived in the same apartment for 27
years, he
saved enough to retire at 50, lives in a $5,200/month assisted living
center
in his old age which he pays for out of his own pocket and he still he
has
hundreds of thousands in savings. A learning disability ???


Sounds like he did well in his own way. What sort of work did he perform
(just curious)?

My only friend who could retire at age 50 was able to do that because his
business was bought out by Georgia Pacific when he was 40 and the payment,
in their stock, sky rocketed afterwards. Want a picture of his yacht?


He delivered furniture for a big department store (he obviously wasn't
the 'driver'), and used his muscles to make a living. He was an avid walker
or took buses for very long distances. His 'social life' was going to the
bank, the barber and a restaurant once a week.

He's lost both legs to diabetes and is now the volunteer 'paperboy'
delivering
the morning newspaper in his wheel chair to other residents at the assisted
living center.

Interesting. I have spoken with people who have similar relatives, and,
when the relatives developed problems such as diabetes, they were unable
to adequately care for themselves and had similar problems.

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
Coleah wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...

Coleah wrote:

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...



Yes, hypotheses are meant to be investigated. Take a look how Amish
education is delivered in the US. They are actually *exempt* from the
mandatory attendance laws, and, by extension, I would suspect that they
would also be exempt from I.D.E.A. Thus, the Aspergers, etc. would fit
in with their culture and not be readily identified as having a LD.


My Grandson has mild Aspergers and one of my brothers does as well,
although we didn't 'identify' it with a name until the Grandson came
along
and was diagnosed.

We never could put a finger on what it was about my brother other than
he
was a bit odd in his behavior, extremely knowledgable about scores for
sport games (back for decades, local/state/national) and read the
dictionary
for fun and wasn't interactive in social atmospheres. When the
Grandson's
doctor described the symptoms and asked if anyone else in the family
had similar characteristics, it was one of those 'Bingo' moments.

Brother managed to make it in life to age 70 without any medication,
however
he never drove a car and was limited in his experiences in life. The
Grandson
was placed on medication and able to focus on more than one obsessive
interest,
expanded his horizons socially and even flew an air plane at age 14.
Definitely
not something my brother would have ever taken on.

So I understand what you are saying about fitting in with a 'culture'
and not
readily being identified as having a LD. [BTW, though my brother
never graduated from high school, married or took on all the expenses
that
usually go along with life (driving a car, making house payments,
repairs,
insurance, replacement, etc) and lived in the same apartment for 27
years, he
saved enough to retire at 50, lives in a $5,200/month assisted living
center
in his old age which he pays for out of his own pocket and he still he
has
hundreds of thousands in savings. A learning disability ???


Sounds like he did well in his own way. What sort of work did he perform
(just curious)?

My only friend who could retire at age 50 was able to do that because his
business was bought out by Georgia Pacific when he was 40 and the
payment, in their stock, sky rocketed afterwards. Want a picture of his
yacht?


He delivered furniture for a big department store (he obviously wasn't
the 'driver'), and used his muscles to make a living. He was an avid
walker
or took buses for very long distances. His 'social life' was going to
the
bank, the barber and a restaurant once a week.

He's lost both legs to diabetes and is now the volunteer 'paperboy'
delivering
the morning newspaper in his wheel chair to other residents at the
assisted
living center.

Interesting. I have spoken with people who have similar relatives, and,
when the relatives developed problems such as diabetes, they were unable
to adequately care for themselves and had similar problems.

Exactly. He once called an 911 because he cut himself shaving and it
wouldn't stop bleeding. He caught such hell from the EMT's that he
didn't go to the emergency room until his toes were turning black.
I didn't live in the same state or I've have been watching over him
more closely.

His social skills are classic for Asperger's and his method of
communicating a bit tilted from the 'norm'. We had to talk
with the grandson about his social skills and tell him how inviting
someone to come over to play didn't mean that they would enjoy
watching HIM play a video game all by himself.

Likewise, once when the grandson met a person for the first time
because he'd heard us talking about the person's interest in playing chess,
he didn't say 'glad to meet you, I hear you play chess'......he just when
right
into asking about some chess move or strategy, right out of left field. So
much for all that 'social' stuff, just cut right to the chase g.

Out of 6 grandkids, he is the only one with Aspergers Syndrome.

HCN wrote:
(removed Breast Implant newsgroup since it does not seem to have any
relevance to this discussion)

wrote in message
oups.com...
HCN wrote:

So how to you count something in a time (like the 1970's) before there is
even an agreement of what the definition is? Before DSM IV there was no

Btw, the DSM IV wasn't published until 1991. Autism explosion
goes back earlier than that.

Please provide references, since the DSM-IV was published in 1994 (you are
three years off):
http://www.nasponline.org/publications/cq268autism.html

Thanks for the reference. Note that since I was three years off,
that makes the argument even stronger that DSM-IV had
nothing to do with the "autism epidemic", except that
it was probably in response to something being observed
out in the field.

wrote in message
oups.com...
HCN wrote:
(removed Breast Implant newsgroup since it does not seem to have any
relevance to this discussion)

wrote in message
oups.com...
HCN wrote:

So how to you count something in a time (like the 1970's) before there
is
even an agreement of what the definition is? Before DSM IV there was
no

Btw, the DSM IV wasn't published until 1991. Autism explosion
goes back earlier than that.

Please provide references, since the DSM-IV was published in 1994 (you
are
three years off):
http://www.nasponline.org/publications/cq268autism.html

Thanks for the reference. Note that since I was three years off,
that makes the argument even stronger that DSM-IV had
nothing to do with the "autism epidemic", except that
it was probably in response to something being observed
out in the field.


The observations were often from schools... especially since a specific law
went into effect. Now think of what that might be... the first version was
in 1975 with a rather politically incorrect title, and has been revised
several times. What was that?

Also where are you getting YOUR numbers from? You've yet to post the
reference. For all we know you are just making it up.

Mark Probert wrote:

It's imprecise, but can be done. Talk to (honest) pediatricians,
school teachers and such who have been around for a while.

You will find a general consensus (in the USA) that something
has definitely gone wrong over this time period.

Do I need to point out that this is an utterly fallacious argument and
impossible to profe. You compounded the fallacy by implying that the
ones who disagree are not honest.

This is a valid argument -- as I didn't make it very clear perhaps
that I was presenting a suggestion, not an agrument. This was
meant to help other people of good faith form better informed opinions,
instead of relying upon single "authoratitive" sources.