Sleeping arrangements - suggestions please

I did not see this situation addressed on the newsgroup (although if it has
been in the past, please let me know where to find it).

My boys will be 2 soon and I have been thinking about moving them out of
their cribs. Although they do not climb out yet, I am waiting for Wesley to
start since he climbs everything else. We have one crib that converts to a
toddler bed but the other does not and I am wondering what to do.

A little history:

For the first 6 months of life we had an air mattress on the floor in the
nursery and all three of us slept on it. We tried just putting in their
cribs and letting them scream it out. For two nights they screamed all
night straight (no sleeping at all!) so mommy continued sleeping with them
till they got to the point they were able to sleep on their own for a couple
of hours at a time. They shared a crib for a while and then moved to
seperate cribs but we still had to fight to get them to go to sleep and
ended up getting up and sleeping with them when they woke up. At about 18
months, after reading all the liturature we finally did the put them in
their crib and let them "scream it out" again because nothing seemed to
work. Going in to check on them every couple of minutes, or even sitting by
the crib just made things worse. They wanted to be held and only held! But
finally I guess they matured enough and were able to learn to sleep on their
own.

Currently they are sleeping in seperate cribs in the same room. We finally
have gotten to the point that Rick will go down with only 1-5 minutes of
screaming on average and sleep through the night. Wesley tends to go down
without screaming and curl right up, but gets up several times during the
night, at which point I finally give in and end up with him on the couch for
the rest of the night (morning). But even this has gotten down to only a
2-3 of nights a week. Last night I ended up bringing him to bed with me and
he curled up and went right back to sleep and when DH got home, he moved him
back to the crib and he slept the rest of the night there.

So for those of you whose babies still are not sleeping through the night,
there is hope out there! It breaks my heart when I hear Rick crying but I
know its for the best. Sometime lately he screams until we close the
bedroom door and then it like "ok I know they are not coming back, I might
as well give in" and he shuts up as soon as the door closes. Those are good
nights!

So in light of this I have been trying to figure out what to do when the
time comes to move them from the cribs. I am hoping by then Rick will be
going to sleep on his own and not keep getting up and trying to open the
door but that we will have to wait and see.

Of couse I found out there as many opionions on how kids should sleep and
when they should move from a crib to a toddler bed as there are people out
there. Their case worker says they can move at any time because they are
aware of edges and don't fall off the couch and such. Then the next day I
read in a magazine kids should not be moved out of their cribs until 3 or
older. Then I checked out the message board on twinsmagazine.com and there
are all kinds of age ranges.

I guess I have settled on the idea that mine will be in the cribs until they
crawl out and then we will make the move but...where will they move.

I am thinking of two options (if they will fit in the room)
1) getting a second toddler bed like the one my crib breaks down into or
getting the cute (but expensive) race car/train/ etc toddler beds for each
boy and then buying bunk beds when they are old enough.

2) Since they sleep best when they are together and love to sleep together
and seldom wake each other up I thought about getting two twin mattresses
and one of the things that hooks them together (I don't know what they are
called but I have seen them advertised) and putting them on the floor or
building a kiddie frame out of lumber. That way they can sleep together for
now but when they get older and want seperate beds we can just seperate them
and get appropriate frames (ie twin beds or bunk beds or what ever). Has
anyone ever tried this? Does the thing that hooks them together really
work? I don't want to have them come apart and one of the kids get caught
between the mattresses.

My sister, who never agrees with anything I do and does not have twins, was
agahst that I was thinking about letting them sleep together again. Going
on about how they need to be seperated and what will they do when they go to
school and have to be seperated, I did not even mention that we were talking
about home schooling the boys ;-).

So this is long, but I appreciate any and all comments about what to do
next. (Just please don't jump on me about the cosleeping - I know some
people agree and an equal number disagree. I did what I thought was best
for my twins and my sanity.)

- Erica

Erica Carwile wrote:
snip

So this is long, but I appreciate any and all comments about what to do
next. (Just please don't jump on me about the cosleeping - I know some
people agree and an equal number disagree. I did what I thought was best
for my twins and my sanity.)


You do what works and fits your space situation. My folks kept my
sister and I in one crib (at night) through age 2 1/2. Then we spent
a few weeks sleeping on the floor. After that move, we shared a twin
bed for another year.

The biggest issues for new beds tend to be "do the children keep
each other up" and "do they start wandering/getting into things with
the new freedom".

As to your sister's concern, she may be remembering things about
twins who weren't encouraged to be individuals. (I've met a few pairs
with that history - including one set who were roommates in college.)
Where the children sleep has usually no effect on this, it's what
you do during the day that has the biggest influence. One-on-one time
with a parent and being allowed make choices are much more important.

Cindy Wells
- Erica

Hi Erica,

Our boys are 2 yr 3mo. They shared a crib for about their first 6 mos, then
moved to separate cribs in the same room. We separated them because we
thought they were too crowded and would wake each other up.

About 3-4 mos. ago they figured out how to climb into each other's cribs and
now they often sleep together in one crib! Now we wonder if they really
wanted to be together all that time while we thought they would be too
crowded. If they really want to be together they'll sleep in the same bed
even if they're practically lying on top of each other. They can also climb
out of their cribs easily without hurting themselves. Their room is
reasonably child-proofed and we put a doorknob cover on the door so they
can't get out and wander around the house. We'll be moving them into twin
beds soon. I've been doing a little shopping around, and I've learned that
most wooden bunk beds can be separated into two twin beds. We'll probably
go that route, so they'll have the bunk bed option when they're older.

As for your situation, I'd skip the race car/toddler bed option. We got one
of the toddler sized ones for our 5 year old when he moved out of his crib
just before he turned 3. Most of our friends moved their kids out of cribs
at closer to 2, but Matthew never tried to escape so we kept him in there as
long as possible. The race car bed was really kind of a waste of money,
since he only used it for a couple years then got too big to sleep in it
comfortably (and he's a small kid). Then you end up getting a twin sized
bed anyway. I don't know anything about the mattress connectors. I've
heard of something that allows you to fill the gap between two twin
mattresses so they can go together on a king frame. I don't think I'd want
to use something like that for little kids. In my opinion, they should each
have their own bed, their own personal space. For those times they really
want to be together, they can probably both cram into one bed for at least a
couple more years, especially if it's a twin. Good luck!

Chris
Matthew 4/98, Michael and Andrew 4/01

Hi, Erica. I love your name so much that we chose it for our daughter.

Welcome to the group. My b/g twins turned 6 recently and still sleep on
side-by-side mattresses (nothing attaching them together, but they're in
a loft where the mattresses can't move around). Do what works for you
and develop a thick skin for comments of people who have no clue.
Sounds like you've already figured that one out, though.

As for cribs, since Janet, mom of triplets, is not yet back from what we
all hope is a wonderful exotic vacation, I will proxy for her and repeat
her mantra: keep them in the cribs as long as you can. Nap time will
never be the same again, nor will bedtime. They do sell "crib tents"
that are used to keep kids from climbing out (be sure to emphasize the
cool "camping out" aspects of the device), and many here have used them
with great success, though I have no personal experience.

As for them having to be separated at school, that's not necessarily the
case. If down the line you agree that that would be best, then fine,
but if you feel that they would be better off together, many schools
will accommodate that. If the school says "It's our policy to separate
twins", then ask them whether you could please *see* the policy. Much
of the time, there is no such thing. In our case, our school has no
policy; C&E want to be together, it's fine by us, and their kindergarten
teacher said that she felt they will do fine in the same first grade
class as well.

Julie
Mom to Erica & Chris, 07/97

Erica Carwile wrote:

I did not see this situation addressed on the newsgroup (although if it has
been in the past, please let me know where to find it).

My boys will be 2 soon and I have been thinking about moving them out of
their cribs. Although they do not climb out yet, I am waiting for Wesley to
start since he climbs everything else. We have one crib that converts to a
toddler bed but the other does not and I am wondering what to do.

A little history:

For the first 6 months of life we had an air mattress on the floor in the
nursery and all three of us slept on it. We tried just putting in their
cribs and letting them scream it out. For two nights they screamed all
night straight (no sleeping at all!) so mommy continued sleeping with them
till they got to the point they were able to sleep on their own for a couple
of hours at a time. They shared a crib for a while and then moved to
seperate cribs but we still had to fight to get them to go to sleep and
ended up getting up and sleeping with them when they woke up. At about 18
months, after reading all the liturature we finally did the put them in
their crib and let them "scream it out" again because nothing seemed to
work. Going in to check on them every couple of minutes, or even sitting by
the crib just made things worse. They wanted to be held and only held! But
finally I guess they matured enough and were able to learn to sleep on their
own.

Currently they are sleeping in seperate cribs in the same room. We finally
have gotten to the point that Rick will go down with only 1-5 minutes of
screaming on average and sleep through the night. Wesley tends to go down
without screaming and curl right up, but gets up several times during the
night, at which point I finally give in and end up with him on the couch for
the rest of the night (morning). But even this has gotten down to only a
2-3 of nights a week. Last night I ended up bringing him to bed with me and
he curled up and went right back to sleep and when DH got home, he moved him
back to the crib and he slept the rest of the night there.

So for those of you whose babies still are not sleeping through the night,
there is hope out there! It breaks my heart when I hear Rick crying but I
know its for the best. Sometime lately he screams until we close the
bedroom door and then it like "ok I know they are not coming back, I might
as well give in" and he shuts up as soon as the door closes. Those are good
nights!

So in light of this I have been trying to figure out what to do when the
time comes to move them from the cribs. I am hoping by then Rick will be
going to sleep on his own and not keep getting up and trying to open the
door but that we will have to wait and see.

Of couse I found out there as many opionions on how kids should sleep and
when they should move from a crib to a toddler bed as there are people out
there. Their case worker says they can move at any time because they are
aware of edges and don't fall off the couch and such. Then the next day I
read in a magazine kids should not be moved out of their cribs until 3 or
older. Then I checked out the message board on twinsmagazine.com and there
are all kinds of age ranges.

I guess I have settled on the idea that mine will be in the cribs until they
crawl out and then we will make the move but...where will they move.

I am thinking of two options (if they will fit in the room)
1) getting a second toddler bed like the one my crib breaks down into or
getting the cute (but expensive) race car/train/ etc toddler beds for each
boy and then buying bunk beds when they are old enough.

2) Since they sleep best when they are together and love to sleep together
and seldom wake each other up I thought about getting two twin mattresses
and one of the things that hooks them together (I don't know what they are
called but I have seen them advertised) and putting them on the floor or
building a kiddie frame out of lumber. That way they can sleep together for
now but when they get older and want seperate beds we can just seperate them
and get appropriate frames (ie twin beds or bunk beds or what ever). Has
anyone ever tried this? Does the thing that hooks them together really
work? I don't want to have them come apart and one of the kids get caught
between the mattresses.

My sister, who never agrees with anything I do and does not have twins, was
agahst that I was thinking about letting them sleep together again. Going
on about how they need to be seperated and what will they do when they go to
school and have to be seperated, I did not even mention that we were talking
about home schooling the boys ;-).

So this is long, but I appreciate any and all comments about what to do
next. (Just please don't jump on me about the cosleeping - I know some
people agree and an equal number disagree. I did what I thought was best
for my twins and my sanity.)

- Erica

I would try to keep them in cribs as long as you can, as another reply said.
Once out of cribs, they can come out of their room and can get up to much
more mischief. Our girls started climbing out at around 20 months and one
split her chin badly so we decided to get big beds. We didn't have the
problem with sleeping as the both slept all night.
What we didn't expect was that every night they completely wrecked their
room! They stripped the beds and even pulled the mattresses on to the
floor. They emptied every drawer and pulled all their clothes off the rail
in the wardrobe. They didn't come out of the room and eventually fell
asleep in the middle of the mayhem. The very worst thing was that they
always took all their clothes off, including the nappy. Previous to this,
we had put in their sleepsuits back to front to stop the stripping, but when
not in their cribs, they stripped each other. They did eventually grow out
of this. Phew! Most nights they sleep in their own beds, but still are
sometimes together in the morning. They are 6 1/2 years old.
Don't worry too much about what others say about when children should do
what. Do what is best for your family.
As for co-sleeping - if mine didn't sleep well and there was a chance of a
better nights sleep for all, leading to less grumpy parents and kids the
next day, I'd go for it. I slept with my big sister till I was about 12 and
sometimes our 2 brothers crept in too! I don't think it did us any mental
damage, though some might disagree! ; ).
Re the school separation thing. Your children are only almost 2 years old!
You are going to have to grow a thick skin as far as your sister is
concerned. Listen to what others say, but don't get stressed. Relax and do
what feels right for you. You know your children better than anyone, so do
what you feel they are ready for and you are comfortable with.
Sorry this become very long.

Alison


"Erica Carwile" wrote in message
...
I did not see this situation addressed on the newsgroup (although if it
has
been in the past, please let me know where to find it).

My boys will be 2 soon and I have been thinking about moving them out of
their cribs. Although they do not climb out yet, I am waiting for Wesley
to
start since he climbs everything else. We have one crib that converts to
a
toddler bed but the other does not and I am wondering what to do.

A little history:

For the first 6 months of life we had an air mattress on the floor in the
nursery and all three of us slept on it. We tried just putting in their
cribs and letting them scream it out. For two nights they screamed all
night straight (no sleeping at all!) so mommy continued sleeping with them
till they got to the point they were able to sleep on their own for a
couple
of hours at a time. They shared a crib for a while and then moved to
seperate cribs but we still had to fight to get them to go to sleep and
ended up getting up and sleeping with them when they woke up. At about 18
months, after reading all the liturature we finally did the put them in
their crib and let them "scream it out" again because nothing seemed to
work. Going in to check on them every couple of minutes, or even sitting
by
the crib just made things worse. They wanted to be held and only held!
But
finally I guess they matured enough and were able to learn to sleep on
their
own.

Currently they are sleeping in seperate cribs in the same room. We
finally
have gotten to the point that Rick will go down with only 1-5 minutes of
screaming on average and sleep through the night. Wesley tends to go down
without screaming and curl right up, but gets up several times during the
night, at which point I finally give in and end up with him on the couch
for
the rest of the night (morning). But even this has gotten down to only a
2-3 of nights a week. Last night I ended up bringing him to bed with me
and
he curled up and went right back to sleep and when DH got home, he moved
him
back to the crib and he slept the rest of the night there.

So for those of you whose babies still are not sleeping through the night,
there is hope out there! It breaks my heart when I hear Rick crying but I
know its for the best. Sometime lately he screams until we close the
bedroom door and then it like "ok I know they are not coming back, I might
as well give in" and he shuts up as soon as the door closes. Those are
good
nights!

So in light of this I have been trying to figure out what to do when the
time comes to move them from the cribs. I am hoping by then Rick will be
going to sleep on his own and not keep getting up and trying to open the
door but that we will have to wait and see.

Of couse I found out there as many opionions on how kids should sleep and
when they should move from a crib to a toddler bed as there are people out
there. Their case worker says they can move at any time because they are
aware of edges and don't fall off the couch and such. Then the next day I
read in a magazine kids should not be moved out of their cribs until 3 or
older. Then I checked out the message board on twinsmagazine.com and
there
are all kinds of age ranges.

I guess I have settled on the idea that mine will be in the cribs until
they
crawl out and then we will make the move but...where will they move.

I am thinking of two options (if they will fit in the room)
1) getting a second toddler bed like the one my crib breaks down into or
getting the cute (but expensive) race car/train/ etc toddler beds for each
boy and then buying bunk beds when they are old enough.

2) Since they sleep best when they are together and love to sleep
together
and seldom wake each other up I thought about getting two twin mattresses
and one of the things that hooks them together (I don't know what they are
called but I have seen them advertised) and putting them on the floor or
building a kiddie frame out of lumber. That way they can sleep together
for
now but when they get older and want seperate beds we can just seperate
them
and get appropriate frames (ie twin beds or bunk beds or what ever). Has
anyone ever tried this? Does the thing that hooks them together really
work? I don't want to have them come apart and one of the kids get caught
between the mattresses.

My sister, who never agrees with anything I do and does not have twins,
was
agahst that I was thinking about letting them sleep together again. Going
on about how they need to be seperated and what will they do when they go
to
school and have to be seperated, I did not even mention that we were
talking
about home schooling the boys ;-).

So this is long, but I appreciate any and all comments about what to do
next. (Just please don't jump on me about the cosleeping - I know some
people agree and an equal number disagree. I did what I thought was best
for my twins and my sanity.)

- Erica

When our firstborn was @ 18mos we took him out of the crib. He wasn't a
climber or anything, I think reflecting back on it, it was more us.....he
was just such a "big kid" at the time, both physically and mentally, that it
just seemed like the right time (besides it was killing my back putting him
in the crib!)....though we got one of those racecar beds at a garage sale, I
agree, they are a waste of money!! We only used it for a few months before
we bought him his bunkbed, which will hopefully last him throughout his
childhood. Though its hard for me to personally imagine the twins being 2
or 3 and still in the cribs, they will be in them for as long as
possible....even though its hard to not want to set up Ambers room already!!
Oh....we also had them in the same crib until roughly 6mos or so and then
separated them in the same room, opposite sides....Thankfully, they fully
know their schedules to where when I announce its bedtime, they'll both
waddle their way to their bedroom- its so cute! and though they go right to
sleep (usually, knock on wood) Austin will wake up several time throughout
the night because he wants to sleep with us...which is fine, I LOVE sleeping
with my little ones, though I feel guilty because Amber is then by herself,
but I already promised her a car for her 16th to thank her for being so self
reliant! LOL I'm always amazed how they will sleep right through the others
crying and screaming! Anyway, when the time comes, Austin will then bunk
with his older brother (who is anxiously waiting for that) and Amber will
have her own room.....and HOPEFULLY we will eventually find a new house with
enough rooms for everyone to have their own....(and a separate office and
sewing room would be nice too!!!!!) ....oh, and a live in Male maid to
clean all these extra rooms! LOL

--
Gwen, Designer Wraps
SAHM to James (9-98) Austin and Amber (5-02)


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"Erica Carwile" wrote in
:

For the first 6 months of life we had an air mattress on the floor in
the nursery and all three of us slept on it. We tried just putting in
their cribs and letting them scream it out. For two nights they
screamed all night straight (no sleeping at all!) so mommy continued
sleeping with them till they got to the point they were able to sleep
on their own for a couple of hours at a time.

I know you did not want judgments on this, but hey...

This "Baby Whisperer" book does say "start as you plan to continue"... not
always easy to know what to do, nevertheless easier to establish good
habits than to change them later.

We started out with a bed in nursery for mom/dad who was on shift. Problem
for me is that esp. early on babies make so many grumbling/groaning noises
it was very hard to sleep at all.

Now we sleep just across the hall and go deal with kids in response to
crying.