Help with a camp activity

"Luna" wrote in message
...

And we will have games like that too. As for kids who can't read, if they
can't read the name we can whisper it to them, if they don't know the
character then they tell the person they don't know it, and move on. Or
we
can play this game with a group of the older kids and the younger kids can
do something else. By your logic we shouldn't play baseball either,
because some kids don't know how to throw or hit. Some can't run as fast
as others. We shouldn't play any games at all because some of the kids
won't be as good as the others?

You have to make the decision on playing competetive games at all-- if you
do, some kids will be better, some will be worse. Some will win, some will
lose. I'm guessing you won't be changing your camp to avoid that all
together.



Playing baseball with a mixed group of 6-12 year olds also sounds to me
pretty unlikely to work out well. I don't have any experience with that.
(Are most of the activities in this camp that mixed of an age, or are they
only thrown together on rainy days or when regular plans are sidelined for
some other reason)

Carrying the baseball analogy further--

Talking about baseball in general, kids who don't know how to throw or hit
will learn how to do these things better by playing in a supportive
environment, which I assume this is. The goal of playing is to learn to
play better.

In a game like you are suggesting, kids will learn to ask the right kinds of
questions, and use logic to come to a conclusion. These skills are
valuable, and will improve with practice.

But expecting kids who can't read well enough or don't know the characters
to play a game like you are suggesting feels to me like asking a kid with a
broken arm to play baseball. They can try to swing a bat one-handed, catch
and throw with the other hand, but they are unlikely to succeed. The
experience is not likely to help them succeed at the game later. They are
not likely to have fun. It is likely to add tension between them and those
who are trying to play the game to win. It has the possibility of being a
very strong negative. (In both the baseball and camp game side, a very
gung-ho child who wants to play could enjoy it even if handicapped with the
disadvantages listed. But I don't think that is true for your average
child).

Liz

By your logic we shouldn't play baseball either,
because some kids don't know how to throw or hit. Some can't run as fast
as others. We shouldn't play any games at all because some of the kids
won't be as good as the others?

Personally, I think trying to group kids that have an age range from 6 to 12
together for all but a few activities is full of problems. Do I think 8 year
olds could play the game you suggest? Sure.
Using your example above though-- No, I don't think 6 year olds and 12 year
olds should be playing baseball together.

Sorry-- I thought you were looking for advice-- not just kudos for thinking of
a game.
Have a fun summer.

In article ,
(Robyn Kozierok) wrote:

In article ,
Luna wrote:

By your logic we shouldn't play baseball either,
because some kids don't know how to throw or hit. Some can't run as fast
as others. We shouldn't play any games at all because some of the kids
won't be as good as the others?

Well, no, I wouldn't think of playing baseball with a mixed group of
6 to 12 year olds! The variation of skills levels would be unworkable,
IMO.


Well, it IS a sports camp, and baseball is one of the sports we'll be
playing.

Perhaps I am misreading, but it sounds like there is no age-based
grouping planned for this camp at all. This is very unlike any camp I
have ever attended, worked in, or sent my children to! And every camp
I know of has also offered choices of activities, at least some of the
time. (Even most schools for elementary-aged kids offer some choices,
especially at the lower end of your age-range!)

There are age groupings. There's preschool, then 6-12, anyone older than
that is a CIT. Maybe they break it down further in the 6-12 group, but like
I said it's my first year, and I haven't seen it in action yet.


I've been a camp counsellor and I agree that sometimes you have to just
plan an activity and expect everyone to participate. But I also think
you have to make sure that such activities are age- and skill-appropriate,
and that's *very* hard to do with such a mixed age group!

Good luck!

--Robyn


Thanks.

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

In article ,
ospam (Splanche) wrote:

By your logic we shouldn't play baseball either,
because some kids don't know how to throw or hit. Some can't run as fast
as others. We shouldn't play any games at all because some of the kids
won't be as good as the others?

Personally, I think trying to group kids that have an age range from 6 to 12
together for all but a few activities is full of problems. Do I think 8 year
olds could play the game you suggest? Sure.
Using your example above though-- No, I don't think 6 year olds and 12 year
olds should be playing baseball together.

Sorry-- I thought you were looking for advice-- not just kudos for thinking of
a game.
Have a fun summer.


Oh, I was looking for advice. Advice on how to make this game more
enjoyable for everyone. And I got great advice. Pointing out that some 6
year old kids can't read yet (which is a really atrocious indictment of
public school systems, imo) is great advice. That gives me the idea that
we can whisper the names to the younger kids if they can't read them. Or
we could do a variation with pictures of fruits, foods, animals, or plants,
maybe with the words typed under the picture.

The advice I got that was not useful was that some kids don't like "getting
to know you" games so we shouldn't play that _type_ of game. Those types
of games are a part of our summer camp. I don't have any problem not
playing a game, or modifying a game, if it is beyond the abilities of some
of the campers. I do have a problem with eliminating an entire part of
summer camp, which IS getting to know other kids, or with letting kids sit
out because they think it's "lame."

For example, there's another game we played at training where we had to get
in a group of fifteen, and we had a rope. The person in charge called out
a shape we had to make with the rope, a triangle or a rectangle, and we had
to make that shape. Then, we had to do it with our eyes closed. Then, we
had to do it with our eyes open but no talking. I thought it was lame, but
I still had to do it. I could give at least 5 more examples of games like
that. I had to play all of them, and it didn't hurt me one bit.

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

Pointing out that some 6
year old kids can't read yet (which is a really atrocious indictment of
public school systems, imo) is great advice.

I'm not sure anyone said some 6 yo kid can't read *at all* -- just that many 6
yo, 7yo even 8yo can't read *well enough* to play this game. So hold off on the
atrocious indictment of the public school systems -- they did a great job with
my late-reader kid, encouraging but never making him feel inadequate in the
process. He was always reading on grade level, but had very little confidence
and would have panicked if asked to play this game before about 4th grade.

That gives me the idea that
we can whisper the names to the younger kids if they can't read them.

Couple of problems with that -- first, it singles out the kids who can't read
(picture clues are kinder because they are available to all) and second, I
don't think you'd have enough staff to do that -- it's not just one thing they
have to read, but everyone's name tag, no?

Good luck with it. I hope you can find a way to make it work.

-Dawn
Mom to Henry, 11

Or we
can play this game with a group of the older kids and the younger kids can
do something else. By your logic we shouldn't play baseball either,
because some kids don't know how to throw or hit. Some can't run as fast
as others. We shouldn't play any games at all because some of the kids
won't be as good as the others?

I don't think that's what people are saying at all. I think most respondents
-- probably not all -- realize that you're trying to have an activity ready and
that you realize not all kids will enjoy every activity. You sound like the
type of person who will understand that offering choices would be a good thing,
too.

But you did ask for advice from a parenting perspective, and that's what you're
getting. I think based on the feedback you're getting you need to consider:

-the impact of reading levels on this game
-the impact on individual likes/dislikes on this game (my kid, an 11 yo boy,
could name every American Idol semifinalist but couldn't identify any players
from the remaining teams in the NBA playoffs...)
-the problems associated with allowing kids from such a wide age range to play
this game.

IMO some folks are being unnecessarily black and white here -- my child likely
would have struggled with your game due to reading level when he was younger,
and now would feel isolated by his lack of knowledge of sports figures (if you
used them), but he would deal with it, have one bad day at camp, and move on.
If some of the respondents kids are truly so unhappy to have one bad day or
truly so unable to generally follow the structure and demands of camp, then
those kids probably aren't good candidates for camp. That's fine -- it's
something that's good to know, for the kids sake and for the sake of the staff
and other campers.

But don't throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater. You've gotten some
constructive advice that can help you use this game to its best advantage. And
that's valuable -- this is a game that will require considerable prep work on
your part -- you don't want it to bomb completely or only take up 10 minutes on
a long rainy day.


-Dawn
Mom to Henry, 11

"Luna" wrote in message
...
In article ,
ospam (Splanche) wrote:


Oh, I was looking for advice. Advice on how to make this game more
enjoyable for everyone. And I got great advice. Pointing out that
some 6
year old kids can't read yet (which is a really atrocious indictment
of
public school systems, imo) is great advice. That gives me the idea
that
we can whisper the names to the younger kids if they can't read them.

If you decide to do this, how about leveling the playing field by
whispering the names to *all* of the kids, not just the younger,
nonreading ones? That way the nonreaders won't get singled out, which
would be potentially less embarrassing for those kids.

I'd hate to be a kid in a mixed group and have to say, in front of
others, "Help. I can't read this."

beeswing

In article ,
Luna wrote:
In article ,
(Robyn Kozierok) wrote:

Well, no, I wouldn't think of playing baseball with a mixed group of
6 to 12 year olds! The variation of skills levels would be unworkable,
IMO.


Well, it IS a sports camp, and baseball is one of the sports we'll be
playing.

Perhaps I am misreading, but it sounds like there is no age-based
grouping planned for this camp at all. This is very unlike any camp I
have ever attended, worked in, or sent my children to! And every camp
I know of has also offered choices of activities, at least some of the
time. (Even most schools for elementary-aged kids offer some choices,
especially at the lower end of your age-range!)

There are age groupings. There's preschool, then 6-12, anyone older than
that is a CIT. Maybe they break it down further in the 6-12 group, but like
I said it's my first year, and I haven't seen it in action yet.

This would be something worth finding out if you have any more training
sessions left. Most camps have breakdowns like that for enrollment,
but then group the kids into smaller groups/bunks/tribes/pods/etc.
for most day-to-day activities, and these are generally age-based.

I have to assume that the camp arranges sports like baseball to have
some kind of age and/or ability grouping, since they are "on the ball"
enough to have training sessions for their counsellors in the spring,
and they haven't in those sessions discussed the special challenges and
approaches and accomodations that would be involved in playing games
like baseball in a widely-mixed-age group, which would be an important
thing to train staff on if they planned to do things that way. (If
there's little league going on in your town, take a look at a 6yo
(probably T-ball) game and then take a look at a 12yo (probably
player-pitched) game, and see if *you* can imagine all these kids
playing ball constructively together!)

Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)
--
"Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to
work hard at work worth doing." -- Theodore Roosevelt

In article ,
Luna wrote:

For example, there's another game we played at training where we had to get
in a group of fifteen, and we had a rope. The person in charge called out
a shape we had to make with the rope, a triangle or a rectangle, and we had
to make that shape. Then, we had to do it with our eyes closed. Then, we
had to do it with our eyes open but no talking. I thought it was lame, but
I still had to do it. I could give at least 5 more examples of games like
that. I had to play all of them, and it didn't hurt me one bit.

What did you get out of playing those games? Did you learn something?
Do you think your colleagues did? If not, what was the point of
playing the game?

This comes out sounding like you think it's perfectly reasonable to plan
games many participants won't like because you had to do it during training.
And I don't think that is what you want to say!

Honestly, I think this game would be hard for the youngest kids because
of variable reading skills and less knowledge of the people/characters
unless you stick with very basic ones. I think this game would be boring
for the pre-teens, *especially* if you are forced to stick with basics
because of the very young kids. It would probably work best if you
could arrange to play this game with only a subset of the kids.

One thing my kids (8 and 10yo) suggested was trying to make sure that
everyone is likely to know the person/character on his/her own back.
The worst thing that can happen playing this game is to not know
anything about the character on your own back, because then you can
never guess it and it gets very frustrating. If you don't know someone
else's character, you can just say "I don't know" when they ask you a
question, with little loss of face. If you play this late enough in
the camp season, you may have an idea of the kids' interests,
otherwise, you could at least save some of the harder ones for the
bigger kids.

--Robyn

"Beeswing" wrote in message
...
"Luna" wrote in message
...
In article ,
ospam (Splanche) wrote:

I'd hate to be a kid in a mixed group and have to say, in front of
others, "Help. I can't read this."

I have an idea, how about doing olympic sports, using the
universal olympic sport figures. They don't need to read,
and part of the fun is figuring out what they silly figure
means anyway, and there will be olympics this summer
to tie this into.

beeswing