Baby dies after pacifier taped to face

Do you think there is criminal intent in this case?
Tragically dumb but no criminal intent.

I might see it differently if the parents were high, drunk
or clearly educated to know better.

8.5 years for this? Assenine.

On Jun 20, 11:23 am, spd wrote:
Police: Baby dies after pacifier taped to face

05:32 PM PDT on Tuesday, June 19, 2007

By ROB PIERCY / KING 5 News

Bonnie Desmond appeared in court Tuesday, charged with first-degree
manslaughter. LAKE STEVENS, Wash, - A mother is charged in the death
of her infant son for allegedly taping a pacifier to the child's
mouth.

Bonnie Desmond, just a month shy of her 20th birthday, could spend the
next eight and a half years in prison for what happened Monday inside
her apartment.

Police say Desmond called 911 at 11:30 a.m. Monday, saying her four-
month-old son was unconscious and not breathing. When police and
paramedics arrived, they found the boy dead.

At first, it looked like a case of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
(SIDS), but then police say Desmond made a stunning confession. She
had taped the boy's pacifier to his mouth to keep it from falling
out.

The medical examiner has finished an autopsy on the boy, but has not
said exactly how he died.

Carlos Villavicencio, a pediatric doctor, says he has never heard of a
case where a child's pacifier was taped to its mouth, but says that it
is very dangerous.

"As with any other structure that would be around the baby's mouth or
face, there is the danger of suffocation," said Villavicencio.

Desmond is now charged with first-degree manslaughter.

Desmond's fiancé and father of the child walked out of court weeping.
Mark Roe, who is prosecuting the case, says he's seen more than his
fair share of crimes against children and they never get any easier.

"Most of us have probably faced the issue of babies crying in the
middle of the night, I would guess that most of us have taken
different and more responsible courses of dealing with it," said Roe.

Bail for Desmond was set at $500,000. Her attorneys plan to contest
that.

On Jun 20, 1:07 pm, Greegor wrote:

Do you think there is criminal intent in this case?

What difference would that make?

Tragically dumb but no criminal intent.

So?

I might see it differently if the parents were high, drunk
or clearly educated to know better.

You might see it how?

8.5 years for this? Assenine.

What should the punishment be?

"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 20, 1:07 pm, Greegor wrote:

Do you think there is criminal intent in this case?

What difference would that make?

Tragically dumb but no criminal intent.

So?

I might see it differently if the parents were high, drunk
or clearly educated to know better.

You might see it how?

8.5 years for this? Assenine.

What should the punishment be?

In all honesty, I don't know if there is an appropriate punishment.
The mother has to live with this for the rest of her life. She has to go on
knowing that although what she did was not intentional (which it doesn't
sound like it is) and she did not do it thinking or knowing the outcome
would be like it ended up being. But it did.
I think a case like this doesn't have a very good chance of happening again,
even if this mother has another child in the future. I don't think she
would be a risk to society. Then again, you might read in the headlines,
"Woman goes around taping things over random infants' mouths!" I doubt that,
though.
I don't think this story is any different than ones you hear about
accidental drownings or falls that cause death. In those cases, no one
intended for something bad to happen, yet it did. If every parent was sent
to jail for a mistake, where would we be?
If a child falls down the stairs and dies from their injuries, should those
parents be sent to jail over something that could have been prevented by
them watching the child every second or buying a baby gate or two.
I just don't see how 8+ years in jail is going to benefit anyone. Maybe she
should be sent for some parenting classes or courses. I really don't know,
but I just can't see how 8 years in jail is the road to take with this lady.
She made a mistake. We all have one time or another.

On Jun 20, 1:33 pm, "0:-]" wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:10:51 GMT, "xkatx" wrote:

"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 20, 1:07 pm, Greegor wrote:

Do you think there is criminal intent in this case?

What difference would that make?

Tragically dumb but no criminal intent.

So?

I might see it differently if the parents were high, drunk
or clearly educated to know better.

You might see it how?

8.5 years for this? Assenine.

What should the punishment be?

In all honesty, I don't know if there is an appropriate punishment.
The mother has to live with this for the rest of her life. She has to go on
knowing that although what she did was not intentional (which it doesn't
sound like it is) and she did not do it thinking or knowing the outcome
would be like it ended up being. But it did.
I think a case like this doesn't have a very good chance of happening again,
even if this mother has another child in the future. I don't think she
would be a risk to society. Then again, you might read in the headlines,
"Woman goes around taping things over random infants' mouths!" I doubt that,
though.
I don't think this story is any different than ones you hear about
accidental drownings or falls that cause death. In those cases, no one
intended for something bad to happen, yet it did. If every parent was sent
to jail for a mistake, where would we be?
If a child falls down the stairs and dies from their injuries, should those
parents be sent to jail over something that could have been prevented by
them watching the child every second or buying a baby gate or two.
I just don't see how 8+ years in jail is going to benefit anyone. Maybe she
should be sent for some parenting classes or courses. I really don't know,
but I just can't see how 8 years in jail is the road to take with this lady.
She made a mistake. We all have one time or another.

She'll do about 15 months to 3 years, and walk. A few years probation,
maybe.

You make some good points. On the other hand, we don't have the court
transcript. I'd like to look at the evidence before laying down a
final opinion.

The little bit available, and the thought of what the child went
through on the way to dying has somewhat hardened my heart toward her
"loss."

But there you go, eh?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Am I wrong in insisting the young mom failed in her part (social
contract).I think they should give her the max! If she ever has
anymore kids,her name should be redflagged and if she has anymore
kids~drag her ass to Family Court.

spd

On Jun 20, 1:39 pm, spd wrote:
On Jun 20, 1:33 pm, "0:-]" wrote:



On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:10:51 GMT, "xkatx" wrote:

"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 20, 1:07 pm, Greegor wrote:

Do you think there is criminal intent in this case?

What difference would that make?

Tragically dumb but no criminal intent.

So?

I might see it differently if the parents were high, drunk
or clearly educated to know better.

You might see it how?

8.5 years for this? Assenine.

What should the punishment be?

In all honesty, I don't know if there is an appropriate punishment.
The mother has to live with this for the rest of her life. She has to go on
knowing that although what she did was not intentional (which it doesn't
sound like it is) and she did not do it thinking or knowing the outcome
would be like it ended up being. But it did.
I think a case like this doesn't have a very good chance of happening again,
even if this mother has another child in the future. I don't think she
would be a risk to society. Then again, you might read in the headlines,
"Woman goes around taping things over random infants' mouths!" I doubt that,
though.
I don't think this story is any different than ones you hear about
accidental drownings or falls that cause death. In those cases, no one
intended for something bad to happen, yet it did. If every parent was sent
to jail for a mistake, where would we be?
If a child falls down the stairs and dies from their injuries, should those
parents be sent to jail over something that could have been prevented by
them watching the child every second or buying a baby gate or two.
I just don't see how 8+ years in jail is going to benefit anyone. Maybe she
should be sent for some parenting classes or courses. I really don't know,
but I just can't see how 8 years in jail is the road to take with this lady.
She made a mistake. We all have one time or another.

She'll do about 15 months to 3 years, and walk. A few years probation,
maybe.

You make some good points. On the other hand, we don't have the court
transcript. I'd like to look at the evidence before laying down a
final opinion.

The little bit available, and the thought of what the child went
through on the way to dying has somewhat hardened my heart toward her
"loss."

But there you go, eh?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Am I wrong in insisting the young mom failed in her part (social
contract).I think they should give her the max! If she ever has
anymore kids,her name should be redflagged and if she has anymore
kids~drag her ass to Family Court.

spd

I am inclined to agree with spd and Kane, who would not know of the
risk of choking, and where was she as the baby slowly turned red, then
blue? I'm sure the baby was making choking sounds, even newborns have
reflexes that are designed to continue life, we are all born with
that. It's instinct. Maybe baby's crying was ****ing mommies live in
boyfriend, we just don't know, I too would like to see the
transcripts.
Most new mothers have instincts as well, I recall one afternoon when
my daughter was an infant, we were enjoying the afternoon out on our
deck when a small swarm of swasp's flew in and and landed on her and
her baby seat. before I even knew what I was doing I was grabbing the
wasps with my bare hands and throwing them off of her. Now that does
not make me a super mom, it was instinct. By the luck of the draw
neither my daughter or I was stung.

Very sad.
Firemonkey

Greegor wrote:

Greegor - why crosspost this to divorce and fathers rights groups - do
you want krp disrupting ASCPS??



Do you think there is criminal intent in this case?
Tragically dumb but no criminal intent.

I might see it differently if the parents were high, drunk
or clearly educated to know better.

8.5 years for this? Assenine.

On Jun 20, 11:23 am, spd wrote:
Police: Baby dies after pacifier taped to face

05:32 PM PDT on Tuesday, June 19, 2007

By ROB PIERCY / KING 5 News

Bonnie Desmond appeared in court Tuesday, charged with first-degree
manslaughter. LAKE STEVENS, Wash, - A mother is charged in the death
of her infant son for allegedly taping a pacifier to the child's
mouth.

Bonnie Desmond, just a month shy of her 20th birthday, could spend the
next eight and a half years in prison for what happened Monday inside
her apartment.

Police say Desmond called 911 at 11:30 a.m. Monday, saying her four-
month-old son was unconscious and not breathing. When police and
paramedics arrived, they found the boy dead.

At first, it looked like a case of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
(SIDS), but then police say Desmond made a stunning confession. She
had taped the boy's pacifier to his mouth to keep it from falling
out.

The medical examiner has finished an autopsy on the boy, but has not
said exactly how he died.

Carlos Villavicencio, a pediatric doctor, says he has never heard of a
case where a child's pacifier was taped to its mouth, but says that it
is very dangerous.

"As with any other structure that would be around the baby's mouth or
face, there is the danger of suffocation," said Villavicencio.

Desmond is now charged with first-degree manslaughter.

Desmond's fiancé and father of the child walked out of court weeping.
Mark Roe, who is prosecuting the case, says he's seen more than his
fair share of crimes against children and they never get any easier.

"Most of us have probably faced the issue of babies crying in the
middle of the night, I would guess that most of us have taken
different and more responsible courses of dealing with it," said Roe.

Bail for Desmond was set at $500,000. Her attorneys plan to contest
that.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

xkatx wrote:
"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 20, 1:07 pm, Greegor wrote:

Do you think there is criminal intent in this case?

What difference would that make?

Tragically dumb but no criminal intent.

So?

I might see it differently if the parents were high, drunk
or clearly educated to know better.

You might see it how?

8.5 years for this? Assenine.

What should the punishment be?

In all honesty, I don't know if there is an appropriate punishment.

I do. Sterilize her -- she clearly should not be a parent -- and she should
go to prison, too.

The mother has to live with this for the rest of her life.

You mean that life her child no longer has?

She has
to go on knowing that although what she did was not intentional
(which it doesn't sound like it is) and she did not do it thinking or
knowing the outcome would be like it ended up being. But it did.
I think a case like this doesn't have a very good chance of happening
again, even if this mother has another child in the future.

She should NEVER, EVER have another child. She shouldn't be allowed around
children.

I don't
think she would be a risk to society. Then again, you might read in
the headlines, "Woman goes around taping things over random infants'
mouths!" I doubt that, though.
I don't think this story is any different than ones you hear about
accidental drownings or falls that cause death. In those cases, no
one intended for something bad to happen, yet it did.

Um, hello -- she taped a pacifier in a baby's mouth. That's not taking a
kid swimming or to the park. She did something totally bizarre ONLY to
benefit herself. She did it so she wouldn't have to listen to the kid cry
when he lost his pacifier, so she wouldn't have to try to find it. Selfish,
stupid bitch. Scratch the surface of this case and I am sure you will find
out some very disturbing things about this woman.

If every
parent was sent to jail for a mistake, where would we be?
If a child falls down the stairs and dies from their injuries, should
those parents be sent to jail over something that could have been
prevented by them watching the child every second or buying a baby
gate or two.

Don't you see the difference between taping a pacifier to a kid's mouth and
having stairs?

I just don't see how 8+ years in jail is going to benefit anyone.

I do. She won't be able to breed in that time. Sadly, we can't sterilize
people. This is the next best option. And she KILLED her child -- don't
you think some justice should be done?

Maybe she should be sent for some parenting classes or courses.

Maybe? Maybe? Sheesh.

I
really don't know, but I just can't see how 8 years in jail is the
road to take with this lady. She made a mistake.

No. She didn't "make a mistake." She made a terrible CHOICE because she is
a selfish woman didn't feel like looking after her baby's pacifier or her
baby.

We all have one
time or another.

We all make mistakes. This was a choice that anyone with a lick of common
sense would have known was dangerous and selfish.

--
nimue

"Let your freak-flag fly, and if someone doesn't get you, move on."
Drew Barrymore

On Jun 20, 4:10�pm, "xkatx" wrote:
"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Jun 20, 1:07 pm, Greegor wrote:

Do you think there is criminal intent in this case?

What difference would that make?

Tragically dumb but no criminal intent.

So?

I might see it differently if the parents were high, drunk
or clearly educated to know better.

You might see it how?

8.5 years for this? * Assenine.

What should the punishment be?

In all honesty, I don't know if there is an appropriate punishment.
The mother has to live with this for the rest of her life. *She has to go on
knowing that although what she did was not intentional (which it doesn't
sound like it is) and she did not do it thinking or knowing the outcome
would be like it ended up being. *But it did.
I think a case like this doesn't have a very good chance of happening again,
even if this mother has another child in the future. *I don't think she
would be a risk to society. *Then again, you might read in the headlines,
"Woman goes around taping things over random infants' mouths!" I doubt that,
though.
I don't think this story is any different than ones you hear about
accidental drownings or falls that cause death. *In those cases, no one
intended for something bad to happen, yet it did. *If every parent was sent
to jail for a mistake, where would we be?
If a child falls down the stairs and dies from their injuries, should those
parents be sent to jail over something that could have been prevented by
them watching the child every second or buying a baby gate or two.
I just don't see how 8+ years in jail is going to benefit anyone. *Maybe she
should be sent for some parenting classes or courses. *I really don't know,
but I just can't see how 8 years in jail is the road to take with this lady.
She made a mistake. *We all have one time or another.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Part of me agrees, but then there is that part that knows that some
knowing parent who wishes to off their child can do the same thing and
claim the same ignorance - kwim? I can't decide how I feel about it,
as I feel a bunch of different things about it.

"0:-]" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:10:51 GMT, "xkatx" wrote:


"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Jun 20, 1:07 pm, Greegor wrote:

Do you think there is criminal intent in this case?

What difference would that make?

Tragically dumb but no criminal intent.

So?

I might see it differently if the parents were high, drunk
or clearly educated to know better.

You might see it how?

8.5 years for this? Assenine.

What should the punishment be?

In all honesty, I don't know if there is an appropriate punishment.
The mother has to live with this for the rest of her life. She has to go
on
knowing that although what she did was not intentional (which it doesn't
sound like it is) and she did not do it thinking or knowing the outcome
would be like it ended up being. But it did.
I think a case like this doesn't have a very good chance of happening
again,
even if this mother has another child in the future. I don't think she
would be a risk to society. Then again, you might read in the headlines,
"Woman goes around taping things over random infants' mouths!" I doubt
that,
though.
I don't think this story is any different than ones you hear about
accidental drownings or falls that cause death. In those cases, no one
intended for something bad to happen, yet it did. If every parent was
sent
to jail for a mistake, where would we be?
If a child falls down the stairs and dies from their injuries, should
those
parents be sent to jail over something that could have been prevented by
them watching the child every second or buying a baby gate or two.
I just don't see how 8+ years in jail is going to benefit anyone. Maybe
she
should be sent for some parenting classes or courses. I really don't
know,
but I just can't see how 8 years in jail is the road to take with this
lady.
She made a mistake. We all have one time or another.

She'll do about 15 months to 3 years, and walk. A few years probation,
maybe.

You make some good points. On the other hand, we don't have the court
transcript. I'd like to look at the evidence before laying down a
final opinion.

The little bit available, and the thought of what the child went
through on the way to dying has somewhat hardened my heart toward her
"loss."

But there you go, eh?

All there is to go on is what is in the article. I do feel bad for the
family, and the child involved, of course.

That's such a tough call. There are parents that do stupid things, and
there are times when you just don't know or think about what *could* happen.
In the end, it does seem like because of what she did, the baby died.
There's really no debating that - she admitted she had done something, and
more than likely because of what she did, the baby is now dead. Again, this
makes me think of other situations where a parent just didn't think about
what might happen - I do read often enough about a child drowning in the
family's pool, for example. Something like that could probably have all
been prevented had the parents been watching the child. There was an
incident locally a number of years back where a toddler (I can't remember
exactly, but I think she was about 2ish?) walked out of the parents' house
one night when it was very cold out. IIRC, it was about -20C or colder.
The little girl wandered out while the parents were sleeping in the house
after a somewhat 'party' night. (this info wasn't made public and never
appeared in the papers or news - the news just stated that the parents were
simply asleep) The child was found the next morning in the yard, nearly
frozen to death and she was wearing only a diaper and socks outside in that
weather. They ended up saving her. She had no lasting issues (no lost
limbs, fingers, toes, nothing from this incident and recovered fully)

The parents, as a result of this, were glorified in the papers. They were
in the news often, and then every now and then there's mention of the girl
and family in the media. The parents could have had a major disaster on
their shoulders. It all comes down to stupid things people do.

Maybe some jail time is appropriate, but I don't think 8 years would benefit
anyone or anything. I also think giving her the support and help she would
need (like, for example, there's tons of resources available here, anyways,
for young parents, new parents of all ages, parents of children of all ages,
coping, anger, stress, you name it) would probably be a very wise move.
In the end, it will be a judge's call, and hopefully it will be a good one.

A baby died. End of story. There has to be some sort of consequence. What
is fitting or not is probably going to vary from person to person. I'm not
a judge or the one who makes that (probably tough and hard) decision.

"firemonkey" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 20, 1:39 pm, spd wrote:
On Jun 20, 1:33 pm, "0:-]" wrote:



On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:10:51 GMT, "xkatx" wrote:

"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 20, 1:07 pm, Greegor wrote:

Do you think there is criminal intent in this case?

What difference would that make?

Tragically dumb but no criminal intent.

So?

I might see it differently if the parents were high, drunk
or clearly educated to know better.

You might see it how?

8.5 years for this? Assenine.

What should the punishment be?

In all honesty, I don't know if there is an appropriate punishment.
The mother has to live with this for the rest of her life. She has to
go on
knowing that although what she did was not intentional (which it
doesn't
sound like it is) and she did not do it thinking or knowing the
outcome
would be like it ended up being. But it did.
I think a case like this doesn't have a very good chance of happening
again,
even if this mother has another child in the future. I don't think
she
would be a risk to society. Then again, you might read in the
headlines,
"Woman goes around taping things over random infants' mouths!" I doubt
that,
though.
I don't think this story is any different than ones you hear about
accidental drownings or falls that cause death. In those cases, no
one
intended for something bad to happen, yet it did. If every parent was
sent
to jail for a mistake, where would we be?
If a child falls down the stairs and dies from their injuries, should
those
parents be sent to jail over something that could have been prevented
by
them watching the child every second or buying a baby gate or two.
I just don't see how 8+ years in jail is going to benefit anyone.
Maybe she
should be sent for some parenting classes or courses. I really don't
know,
but I just can't see how 8 years in jail is the road to take with this
lady.
She made a mistake. We all have one time or another.

She'll do about 15 months to 3 years, and walk. A few years probation,
maybe.

You make some good points. On the other hand, we don't have the court
transcript. I'd like to look at the evidence before laying down a
final opinion.

The little bit available, and the thought of what the child went
through on the way to dying has somewhat hardened my heart toward her
"loss."

But there you go, eh?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Am I wrong in insisting the young mom failed in her part (social
contract).I think they should give her the max! If she ever has
anymore kids,her name should be redflagged and if she has anymore
kids~drag her ass to Family Court.

spd

I am inclined to agree with spd and Kane, who would not know of the
risk of choking, and where was she as the baby slowly turned red, then
blue? I'm sure the baby was making choking sounds, even newborns have
reflexes that are designed to continue life, we are all born with
that. It's instinct. Maybe baby's crying was ****ing mommies live in
boyfriend, we just don't know, I too would like to see the
transcripts.
Most new mothers have instincts as well, I recall one afternoon when
my daughter was an infant, we were enjoying the afternoon out on our
deck when a small swarm of swasp's flew in and and landed on her and
her baby seat. before I even knew what I was doing I was grabbing the
wasps with my bare hands and throwing them off of her. Now that does
not make me a super mom, it was instinct. By the luck of the draw
neither my daughter or I was stung.

Very sad.
Firemonkey

The instinct is often there, yes, but not always does a person follow their
instinct. I think a lot of parents have had something similar happen where
they just did what their instincts told them and didn't think about anything
else. I remember the car accident. We were hit on DS's side by a fair
sized (full sized pickup) truck that was speeding. It was a newer Dodge Ram
1500. We were in an old, little Jetta. I don't even think the car came to
a complete stop after being spund around, I had already flown out of the car
to DS's side and was trying to pry the door open. I gave that up almost as
fast as I tried, and instead I reached in through the busted out window of
the door and frame that was pushed in almost 2 feet, undid his seatbelt and
yanked him out of the car.
After the fact, of course, I had many people asking me why on earth I pulled
him out of the car - common sense says to not move someone just in case
there are injuries, or in case you make any potential injuries far worse.
At the time, I didn't even think about it. My instinct told me that the
second we were hit, DS started screaming (not crying like DD1 was on the
other side of the back seat, but clearly screaming) and that made me sprint
out of the car, run to him first and there was something telling me that I
had to get him out of that car NOW. Nothing rational was telling me to just
hold his hand, comfort him, be with him but not to touch him. It was get
him out! Once he was out of the car, I ran around back to DD1's side and
was trying for her door. Due to massive frame damage, the door wouldn't
open and I remember kicking the door and trying to smash the window open
with my fists. Instinct was telling me that to protect my children, I had
to get them away from what was or had hurt them.
You just don't think about a lot of things when that adrenaline rushes and
it's almost like you're on auto-pilot as to what you HAVE to do at that
exact second.

With the wasps... I'll bet the last thing from your mind was to be careful
or you'll get stung. It seems that instinct is there, but just because it's
there for others, does it really mean it has to be there for everyone?
Maybe it's not. Maybe there can be other factors that might hinder those
instincts.

It is such a sad situation.