playdates for 4yo

Ericka Kammerer ) writes:
I know very few people who find ordinary
socializing between married folk and opposite sex
friends to be suspicious, even if they're not
accompanied by chaperones all the time.

Yet marital infidelity does occur at times.
So if no-one ever suspects that it's happening,
then there are some people who have an inaccurate
view of reality. One could hold the view that
although some marital fidelity exists, it has
no correlation with what appears to others to
be ordinary socializing. (How do the people
meet, then?) Or is the hope that there will be
a society in the future in which there is no
marital infidelity?
--
Cathy Woodgold
http://www.ncf.ca/~an588/par_home.html
We are all Iraqis now.

Catherine Woodgold wrote:
Ericka Kammerer ) writes:

I know very few people who find ordinary
socializing between married folk and opposite sex
friends to be suspicious, even if they're not
accompanied by chaperones all the time.


Yet marital infidelity does occur at times.

Yeah, and...?

So if no-one ever suspects that it's happening,
then there are some people who have an inaccurate
view of reality.

You're not reading carefully. I did
not say that infidelity doesn't happen. I
did not say that no one who ever socialized
with members of the other sex had an affair.
What I *said* was that having a rule that
keeps men and women apart is not a necessary
condition for a society to value (or achieve)
marital fidelity. People are perfectly capable
of having affairs with strict rules in place
(those who have affairs, after all, are *by
definition* rule breakers).

One could hold the view that
although some marital fidelity exists, it has
no correlation with what appears to others to
be ordinary socializing. (How do the people
meet, then?) Or is the hope that there will be
a society in the future in which there is no
marital infidelity?

Oh, please. Of course there won't be
such a society, now or in the future. But you
know what? Even in the days of strict rules
and chaperones there were plenty of affairs.
There are people having affairs right now that
you would never suspect of doing so and who
never appear to be socializing with members of
the opposite sex. And there are plenty of people
who *do* have opposite sex friends who are as
faithful to the marriages as the day is long.
This is simply a factor that isn't relevant.
Therefore, to claim that there will always
be suspicion of married people who have opposite
sex friends, or that there will always be a
social stigma to such socializing, until and
unless society stops valuing marital fidelity
is absolutely a red herring.
Unless, perhaps, you would like to make
the argument that I must not value marital fidelity
very much since I *do* have male friends and I
wouldn't think twice about being around them
without a chaperone?

Best wishes,
Ericka

wrote in message
oups.com...
Y'all must live in a different world than I do. I have three kids, and
its RARE for a parent to come with the kids and STAY here, unless I
happen to invite them in for a coffee which only happens if they are a
friend of mine, or someone I want to get to know. Most of the time, if
they showed up and wanted to hang out, I'd put them to work watching
the kids while I got something done.

The usual drill is the kid gets dropped off, we discuss a pick up time,
and then the mom or dad LEAVES (we have one SAH dad who takes off to
Starbucks to read his newspaper and grab a coffee). Sometimes, the
playdate is prearranged, and after school, my kid goes home with the
other kids parent, or I bring them back here, and again, at the
arranged time, a pick up happens. No parents are hanging around my
house, and I'm not hanging around theirs.

I work outside the home, and with three kids, there is way to much to
do to routinely moon around during a playdate. I just don't have that
kind of time on my hands.

That's exactly how it happens here too Mary. I have never had a parent stay
even when the kids were little. I never stayed on a playdate with my kids,
except one, but the both of us were interested in getting to know one
another and as it turns out she became a very good friend of mine. Even if
my toddlers were going to their friends, I never stayed, but I guess because
I was good friends with the mother and it was sort of a, let the kids play
together while you get something done and then I keep hers on another day.
None of this would even come into play around here.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
Our kids (in elementary school) just have to have
a note in order to ride a different bus than usual. By
middle school or high school, I don't think they check.


The middle school here needs a note from the parent that the child is riding
on the bus.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
On the other hand, even with my older kids (now 8 and
10), I wouldn't allow them to just ride the bus
home to visit a home and a parent I'd never met.
If it was a first visit, I would at least drop them
off and say hi to the other parent, even if I didn't
stay (and I might stay, if the other parent looked
like they were looking for company).

I'm curious as to what some of you would handle this situation. Allison (13
yrs) is in middle school, rides the bus, and has made friends in school that
I have never laid eyes on much less know their parents. She is invited to a
sleepover tonight at one friends house. I don't know that parents. I am
curious as what you would do. Would you let her go? There was another
situation where the mom and dad were divorced, but the dad hosted a
sleepover and they went skating. I can bet, with some of the attitudes
towards menx, that most of you wouldn't have let your daughter go and spend
the night. It turned out fine though and Allison had a wonderful time. The
dad even sprung for a limosine to take the girls skating. It certainly was
something new for us, but I did feel in my heart that it be okay and it was.

--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message
...

Ericka Kammerer ) writes:
I know very few people who find ordinary
socializing between married folk and opposite sex
friends to be suspicious, even if they're not
accompanied by chaperones all the time.

Yet marital infidelity does occur at times.
So if no-one ever suspects that it's happening,
then there are some people who have an inaccurate
view of reality.

First of all, let's suppose that you saw a man going
into your neighbor's house, and you suspected
infidelity. What would you do with that information?
Would you tell the wife? Would you tell the other
neighbors? What if you were wrong? What if
he was her physical therapist?

The fact that you would find the behavior suspicious
says more about you than about them.

I, personally, would need a *lot* more evidence
than a guy and his kid going over to someone's
house occasionally before I'd suspect an affair.
And unless I'm one of the spouses involved,
or perhaps *very* close to one of the spouses,
that suspicion would be meaningless anyway,
because I couldn't do anything about it.

One could hold the view that
although some marital fidelity exists, it has
no correlation with what appears to others to
be ordinary socializing. (How do the people
meet, then?)

That is our point actually. If you took a poll
and asked all the adulterers how they met, how
many would say they met on playdates? My
bet is that most meet at work. Some would
meet through friends, or through their spouse.
Some would be the result of a pick-up.

The only way you could avoid temptation to cheat
would be to lock everyone up in their own
homes. In some of the strict Muslim countries
they force women to stay at home unless
accompanied by a male relative, and then
cover up from head to toe when they go out.
Is that what you want?

Or is the hope that there will be
a society in the future in which there is no
marital infidelity?

I would hope there would be a society where
men and women could be friends without suspicion.
Where people would be allowed to tend to their
own business without others jumping to conclusions
based on very little evidence.

Bizby

In article ,
"Sue" wrote:

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
On the other hand, even with my older kids (now 8 and
10), I wouldn't allow them to just ride the bus
home to visit a home and a parent I'd never met.
If it was a first visit, I would at least drop them
off and say hi to the other parent, even if I didn't
stay (and I might stay, if the other parent looked
like they were looking for company).

I'm curious as to what some of you would handle this situation. Allison (13
yrs) is in middle school, rides the bus, and has made friends in school that
I have never laid eyes on much less know their parents. She is invited to a
sleepover tonight at one friends house. I don't know that parents. I am
curious as what you would do. Would you let her go? There was another
situation where the mom and dad were divorced, but the dad hosted a
sleepover and they went skating. I can bet, with some of the attitudes
towards menx, that most of you wouldn't have let your daughter go and spend
the night. It turned out fine though and Allison had a wonderful time. The
dad even sprung for a limosine to take the girls skating. It certainly was
something new for us, but I did feel in my heart that it be okay and it was.

Having been there, I DO know what I'd do, and that's call the parents to
confirm that, indeed, there is a sleepover and that it will be
supervised by adults in the house.

Now, that doesn't ALWAYS work, but it's something. If the kids have
something nefarious in mind, just knowing that their parents will make
contact can make a difference.

Real conversation with daughter when she was about 13:

"X is having a party after school on Friday. Can I go?"

--Sure. Just give me her phone number so I can call her parents and get
directions.

"She lives right by the school, so I can just walk there."

--Cool. Well, I'll still need directions so I can pick you up after the
party.

"Her big brother is over 18, and he's going to drive everybody home, so
you don't have to worry about anything! Isn't that nice of them."

--Very nice. Why don't you give me their phone number so I can call her
mother and thank her for throwing the party?

"(black cloud descends) Her parents are out of town. I suppose that
means I can't go."

(I tried to contact the girl's parents to let them know what she was
doing while they were out of town, but never had any luck.)
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message
...

Ericka Kammerer ) writes:
I know very few people who find ordinary
socializing between married folk and opposite sex
friends to be suspicious, even if they're not
accompanied by chaperones all the time.

Yet marital infidelity does occur at times.
So if no-one ever suspects that it's happening,
then there are some people who have an inaccurate
view of reality.

And yet, by focusing on potential infidelty above
eveything else, including other wrongs that are quite
common (stealing, for example), you are (imo) helping to
contribute to an inaccurate view of reality.


P. Tierney

Sue wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message

On the other hand, even with my older kids (now 8 and
10), I wouldn't allow them to just ride the bus
home to visit a home and a parent I'd never met.
If it was a first visit, I would at least drop them
off and say hi to the other parent, even if I didn't
stay (and I might stay, if the other parent looked
like they were looking for company).

I'm curious as to what some of you would handle this situation. Allison (13
yrs) is in middle school, rides the bus, and has made friends in school that
I have never laid eyes on much less know their parents. She is invited to a
sleepover tonight at one friends house. I don't know that parents. I am
curious as what you would do. Would you let her go?

I'm sure it would partly depend on the history.
What kinds of friends does she usually have? What's
her judgement usually like? Still, assuming all was
well there, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't allow the sleepover
if I had never met parents or child. If I had met the
child, or had heard a lot about her, or her family was
known to friends of mine, or something like that, I'd
probably allow the sleepover but I'd take her myself and
at least chat briefly with a parent when dropping off.

In part, I try to preempt this sort of
situation from happening by encouraging my kids
to invite their friends over as soon as it seems
like a friendship is blooming, and I'll invite
the parents in when they pick up (or whatever)
if they want to stay and chat for a moment. I
also volunteer to drive for stuff or be involved
with school activities when possible so that I
get some chance to meet other kids and parents.

Best wishes,
Ericka

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 10:14:27 -0400, "Sue"
wrote:

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
On the other hand, even with my older kids (now 8 and
10), I wouldn't allow them to just ride the bus
home to visit a home and a parent I'd never met.
If it was a first visit, I would at least drop them
off and say hi to the other parent, even if I didn't
stay (and I might stay, if the other parent looked
like they were looking for company).

I'm curious as to what some of you would handle this situation. Allison (13
yrs) is in middle school, rides the bus, and has made friends in school that
I have never laid eyes on much less know their parents. She is invited to a
sleepover tonight at one friends house. I don't know that parents. I am
curious as what you would do. Would you let her go? There was another
situation where the mom and dad were divorced, but the dad hosted a
sleepover and they went skating. I can bet, with some of the attitudes
towards menx, that most of you wouldn't have let your daughter go and spend
the night. It turned out fine though and Allison had a wonderful time. The
dad even sprung for a limosine to take the girls skating. It certainly was
something new for us, but I did feel in my heart that it be okay and it was.

Whether the parent was a male or female would have no influence on me.
I would accept either single male parents of the dad staying home
while mom is doing something. I absolutely fail to see the big thing
there.

I would

1. Want to meet the parents hosting the party
2. NOt at this age so much but at an older age, make sure that the
parents would be alert and responsive through the party and that a
parent would be there ar all times.