128 students suspended at Ind. school

"Jen" wrote in message
...
I would hate for my daughter to go to a school without a uniform,
individual expression and creativity in the choice of clothes,
should be at home, not school.

I guess I wouldn't mind if my kids' school had uniforms, except for
the added laundry and the slight stress of having to make sure they
had clean uniforms every day. I know I already have to make sure they
have clean clothes, but it can be *any* clothes, and they have more
than a week's worth of regular clothes.

But I also think that people can sometimes overstate the problems
associated with not wearing them. I don't think inappropriate clothes
are nearly as distracting to the other students as they are to the
adults. And as for the whole in/out thing, there are *always* going
to be popular and unpopular students. Maybe there should be a rule
that no kids can be athletic so that the clumsy students don't feel
they have to keep up?

I know there are places where gang colors are a real problem, and that
there have been studies that show wearing uniform can cut down on
disruptions, so I'm not *against* them per se. I guess I just
thought, "I would *hate* [emphasis mine]..." was a bit over the top.

Bizby

toypup wrote:
snip

She could have spent the money she spent on her illegal outfit for
something that conformed to the school rules. That she did not do
that and now must pay for another outfit is her problem.

That can be a big problem for a 14 year old in foster care, or a homeless
shelter. I would rather that she put her energy into class.

However, I
did used to shop at Goodwill when we were poor and clothing was 25
cents a pound, literally. Maybe it's more now, but it can't be much
and I'm sure she could find appropriate clothing there.

I am in NYC, honey. Nothing is that cheap. Furthermore, maybe our kids
want to look cute, nice, as close to fashionable as they can get. They can't
spend the money rich and middle-class kids can. It is not as easy to find
something that fits and makes the kid feel good at Goodwill as it is at Old
Navy. They do the best they can and as I said and keep saying, this girl
looked fine.

I think the dress code is unclear in my school and enforced by erratically
and often with great insensitivity, even cruelty. It's also pretty darn
sexist. That said, the thing that bothers me the most is that some idiots
think it's okay for kids to miss class -- the whole reason they are in
school -- because someone thinks their outfit violates the dress code. That
should not be a reason to pull a kid from class.



Shouldn't we be
focusing on keeping these kids in class and learning? Definitely.

If they are motivated to learn, they will conform to the dress code.
Kids who don't want to learn won't learn and tend to be disruptive.
Find a way to motivate them and they will conform to the dress code
like everyone else.

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

wrote:
nimue wrote:
hedgehog42 wrote:
snip

No hats or
bandanas or heavy coats.

Uh, what if it's cold?

Sweaters?

Even in Wisconsin during 20-below weather, this is rarely an issue. If
the boiler's not working, they'll make an exception.

Our kids take public transportation to school and they don't have lockers.
They have to have those heavy coats in the NYC winter.

Well, in our schools the kids DO have lockers. They are, in fact,

You are lucky

required to put not only their coats, but their backpacks in them. I
assure you that no-one is expecting the kids to walk (even to the
bus-stop) in winter without a coat on!

One of my grandson's is in a G&T middle school and they do not have
lockers. So not only does he have to carry his coat and books around
but also a couple of musical instruments (trumpet and violin in his
case). And he has to take 3 buses to get to school.

I had a locker when I was in school, but it was assigned where my 9th
grade homeroom was, and for the last 3 years, I had a homeroom as far
from the locker as it was possible to be. Since I walked to school
and was often almost late, I didn't have time to get to the locker.

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:44:50 GMT, Rosalie B.
wrote:

I had a locker when I was in school, but it was assigned where my 9th
grade homeroom was, and for the last 3 years, I had a homeroom as far
from the locker as it was possible to be. Since I walked to school
and was often almost late, I didn't have time to get to the locker.

We had lockers also, but got a new one each year. My friends and I
would give each other our combinations and we could stow our books for
classes in other halls or blocks, in our friend's locker. This was
before backpacks were commonly used, though.

Nan

"nimue" wrote in message
...
wrote:
nimue wrote:

Teenagers want to be able to express themselves through their
clothing. I have no problem with that. I don't want to squash
their individuality. I don't want to control every aspect of their
lives. I just want them IN CLASS. Let them have their high school
fun; the real world will come along soon enough.


School IS the real world. It is the job of 14-18 year olds.

Not all jobs require professional dress, you know.

As a physician, I can assure you that my brain works just as well when I am
wearing shorts as it does when I have a tie on.

For students to use their brain, pretty much shorts, a shirt and sandles is
all they need. Actually, they will get along fine if they are naked, but the
only science that they will be into is anatomy.

I agree that school is
the job of 14-18 year olds. However, I don't think that they should be
made
to dress like office workers while they are teenagers. I am a 38 year old
school teacher and I have come to this conclusion after years of teaching
high school kids.

Yet a lot of private prep schools require shirts, ties and jackets.

What they wear doesn't make their brain work better. But, by wearing a
uniform, clothing differences between kids are reduced. And it helps them
feel like they belong, IMHO.

And of course they can express their individuality through clothing.
THere are score of options that they can wear that meet the dress
code. Now, if their 'individuality' requires that they go to school
3/4's naked, or dressed in gang-wear, perhaps their career goals lean
towards exotic dancer or drug dealer ... and neither of those
requires a high school diploma.

The problem with the dress code is that kids in perfectly respectable
outfits are sent home. In fact, it's usually the girls who are sent
home,
at least in my school. I have argued with deans that tell me that a young
girl in a tank top and a jean skirt that stops just above the knee should
be
sent home because she is violating dress code. I tell them it's hot; we
have no air conditioning, and this kid is going to miss her first period
English exam. It makes me sick.

Yet the kid had the option of wearing dress that conforms to the published
code.

If skirts above the knees and tank tops are prohibited, she should know and
conform to the code.

Jeff

Naomi

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

"nimue" wrote in
:

hedgehog42 wrote:
snip

No hats or
bandanas or heavy coats.

Uh, what if it's cold?

Sweaters?

Even in Wisconsin during 20-below weather, this is rarely
an issue. If the boiler's not working, they'll make an
exception.

Our kids take public transportation to school and they
don't have lockers. They have to have those heavy coats in
the NYC winter.

that's another thing i don't get... why remove the lockers
from the schools? why force the kids to carry 70 pounds of
books & notebooks all day? why take away the ability to wear a
coat & actually dress for the weather?
people wring thier hands over kids wearing t shirts & jeans
without coats in the winter, but if there's no where to stow a
coat at school, i wouldn't wear one either. especially if it
adds to my already overloaded pile of books...
lee
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if
there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of
blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson

"nimue" wrote in message
...
(...)

I don't. I had never heard of the freaking dress code and I had worked
there nearly a year. The dress code materialized (no pun intended) in the
spring. I actually never saw a printed copy of it. Anyway, she looked
totally decent.

Have you tried looking in the student handbook. For the Morton High School
(the subject of the OP), it is available on the net, as it is for the high
school I went to.

For large school districts, like NYC, it is not practical to have one dress
code for all the students. In those cases, the schools have to have their
own rules and distribute them to the students.




She can't stock up on a few light cotton
short sleeve tops for school? The dress code is distributed to all
students, right? (In our district, the parents have to sign it so
there are no plaintive excuses about unseen policies).

Actually, our kids are Title 1 kids -- poor. Very poor. We are
dealing with a whole mess of issues here. Was the dress code
distributed? Maybe.

Don't you know? It's your school. I'll be it was distributed.

I never saw the memo.

Sounds like you should have called the school before the school year and
asked about the dress code. And asked for the memo. And looked on the
internet.

If
not, you can take that task over.

Well, since I have nothing else to do...

You can read it over the PA system
to make sure those kids who don't read can understand it.

Yes, I want to take up class time with that announcement.

It's either that or have the students suspended. If it is important enough
for them to enforce it, it is important enough for them to announce it.


Did the kids read it and understand it? Maybe. Could their parents?
Maybe. Could they afford to buy new clothes? Maybe.

She could have spent the money she spent on her illegal outfit for
something that conformed to the school rules.

Ugh. "Illegal outfit." You sound like the dean, traumatizing a sweet
kid
who looked decent. This outfit was probably a hand-me-down.

And she can wear it outside of school.

That she did not do
that and now must pay for another outfit is her problem. However, I
did used to shop at Goodwill when we were poor and clothing was 25
cents a pound, literally. Maybe it's more now, but it can't be much
and I'm sure she could find appropriate clothing there.

Shouldn't we be
focusing on keeping these kids in class and learning? Definitely.

If they are motivated to learn, they will conform to the dress code.
Kids who don't want to learn won't learn and tend to be disruptive.
Find a way to motivate them and they will conform to the dress code
like everyone else.

Come teach a day in my inner city school. Please.

You mean like in Harlem in 8th grade. Done that.

Clothing is not
disruptive.

Correct. Yet, some kids will wear gang colours if they are allowed. By
having and enforcing a dress code, you get the kids to start to feel that
they belong. They are doing something for the school. And they start to take
pride in themselves. Our school had a dress code, but it was not enforced.
Because of other things, the year was a disaster for the kids and teachers.
The dress code is just part of it.

Behavior is. I have had disruptive kids who were totally
covered and girls in tight t-shirts who always did their homework. Have
you
ever worked in a school?

Yeah. Been there. Did that.

The dress code is not the answer. But it is part of it.

Jeff
--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

"nimue" wrote in message
...
toypup wrote:
snip

She could have spent the money she spent on her illegal outfit for
something that conformed to the school rules. That she did not do
that and now must pay for another outfit is her problem.

That can be a big problem for a 14 year old in foster care, or a homeless
shelter. I would rather that she put her energy into class.

However, I
did used to shop at Goodwill when we were poor and clothing was 25
cents a pound, literally. Maybe it's more now, but it can't be much
and I'm sure she could find appropriate clothing there.

I am in NYC, honey. Nothing is that cheap. Furthermore, maybe our kids
want to look cute, nice, as close to fashionable as they can get. They
can't
spend the money rich and middle-class kids can. It is not as easy to find
something that fits and makes the kid feel good at Goodwill as it is at
Old
Navy. They do the best they can and as I said and keep saying, this girl
looked fine.

Right. And the dress code helps level the playing field. Most parents can
afford Dickies or can get something similar at Goodwill. That way their kids
do blend in. And they can begin to show pride.

Jeff


I think the dress code is unclear in my school and enforced by erratically
and often with great insensitivity, even cruelty. It's also pretty darn
sexist. That said, the thing that bothers me the most is that some idiots
think it's okay for kids to miss class -- the whole reason they are in
school -- because someone thinks their outfit violates the dress code.
That
should not be a reason to pull a kid from class.



Shouldn't we be
focusing on keeping these kids in class and learning? Definitely.

If they are motivated to learn, they will conform to the dress code.
Kids who don't want to learn won't learn and tend to be disruptive.
Find a way to motivate them and they will conform to the dress code
like everyone else.

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

"nimue" wrote in message
...
Jeff wrote:
(...)

The kids have plenty of ways to express themselves with wearing
jewlry and othe ways. Hats and other colors are often allowed in
schools to decrease the visibility of gang symbols.

IMHO, the school did a good job.

IMO, any educator who deprives a child of time in class is an idiot. Why
couldn't she give the kids detention?

Now, the kids will conform to the dress code. They missed just the first day
of school. They will catch up.

She clearly wanted to send a strong signal to the kids. She did.

Jeff


http://hammond.k12.in.us/StudentParentGuide.pdf

Jeff


--

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5222154.stm

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

"Barbara" wrote in message
oups.com...
(...)

I think that the principal was sending out a warning volley that
violations will not be tolerated, on a day that very little actual
teaching was likely to be accomplished in any event. Perhaps other
discipline will be explored as the school year progresses.

The most important teaching on the first day is about rules and procedures.
She sent the message loud and clear.


Jeff