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#121
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
"NL" wrote in message
... Banty schrieb: Agsf is not a troll. A troll isn't just anybody a lot of people disagree with. He's out in left (um, right) field on his ideas, and way out of the ballpark on some of his facts. But that a troll doesn't make. He *has* had good ideas to contribute, (he's a person, and a caring father, not a hairy beast), and does represent a certain turn of mind that we all need to deal with. See, personally, I think he just likes stirring ****. I agree. That's why I consider him a troll -- he's trolling the groups looking to stir things up. It would be like if I went out and hung around on Alt.Support.Childfree and talked on an on about my kids, and how everyone should have kids and those who don't are immature, selfish and self-centered. Even though I do wonder what he uses his toilet for.... ;-D see above :-P (Sorry, I could so not resist that one...) cu nicole -- Jamie Clark |
#122
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
In article , Jamie Clark says...
"NL" wrote in message ... Banty schrieb: Agsf is not a troll. A troll isn't just anybody a lot of people disagree with. He's out in left (um, right) field on his ideas, and way out of the ballpark on some of his facts. But that a troll doesn't make. He *has* had good ideas to contribute, (he's a person, and a caring father, not a hairy beast), and does represent a certain turn of mind that we all need to deal with. See, personally, I think he just likes stirring ****. I agree. That's why I consider him a troll -- he's trolling the groups looking to stir things up. It would be like if I went out and hung around on Alt.Support.Childfree and talked on an on about my kids, and how everyone should have kids and those who don't are immature, selfish and self-centered. I understand your point - it's just that that's a bad example. Just about everyone aside from the believers in the canon of groupthink aren't welcome there anymore (lest they hear about being a 'breeder-pleaser'). Thats not who we are. Thank your local diety. If he stirs **** (and whatever else he likes to do in the toilet to think single mothers have been toilet-ized LOL) - whatever. He is actually contributing, too. Banty |
#123
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:28:16 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57
wrote: To lounge around the house while our wives work is not something we would cater to. I personally couldn't do it. This view of what women do when they are at home with young children is part of the problem. Anyone at home with young children has a lot to do and mostly not housework. After the children are in school, btw, it still is not lounging about that is happening. Besides that it sounds like you are very limited in your own creative activities. Work doesn't have to be compensated to be meaningful. I might be artistic enough to paint or sculpt. I could be inventing machines even if they never get marketed. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#124
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:49:49 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57
wrote: On Apr 19, 7:00 pm, toto wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:45:07 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57 wrote: That she rather have her child be raised and in company of strangers than to sit down with the child and help her grow. For most of human history, children were raised by the *tribe* rather than by their individual mothers alone. Human families were extended families and grandmothers, grandfathers, aunts, uncles and other relatives helped to rear the children. It is really only in recent times in the West that the nuclear family has become the *ideal.* In the Kibbutzim in Isreal, communal child rearing is not seen as inimical to strong family ties. Underlying these child rearing practices is a different view of children and childhood. In tribal and communal societies, the child is views as a full participant in the life of the community from birth. -- Dorothy That's nice and all, but you have to acknowledge that the two societies are different. In these tribes, the entire tribes were working together to survive and prosper. Each member had a role to play in order to better the tribe. Also, I am sure that even in those tribes, the mother of the child would prefer to be with their offspring than to relinquish the parental duties and joys onto other tribal members. Regards... You have obviously never asked a tribal woman what they might or might not prefer. You think that Western civilization's view of parenting is the only view and that others *must* prefer this emotionally when it is simply not true. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#125
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
In article , toto says...
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:49:49 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57 wrote: On Apr 19, 7:00 pm, toto wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:45:07 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57 wrote: That she rather have her child be raised and in company of strangers than to sit down with the child and help her grow. For most of human history, children were raised by the *tribe* rather than by their individual mothers alone. Human families were extended families and grandmothers, grandfathers, aunts, uncles and other relatives helped to rear the children. It is really only in recent times in the West that the nuclear family has become the *ideal.* In the Kibbutzim in Isreal, communal child rearing is not seen as inimical to strong family ties. Underlying these child rearing practices is a different view of children and childhood. In tribal and communal societies, the child is views as a full participant in the life of the community from birth. -- Dorothy That's nice and all, but you have to acknowledge that the two societies are different. In these tribes, the entire tribes were working together to survive and prosper. Each member had a role to play in order to better the tribe. Also, I am sure that even in those tribes, the mother of the child would prefer to be with their offspring than to relinquish the parental duties and joys onto other tribal members. Regards... You have obviously never asked a tribal woman what they might or might not prefer. You think that Western civilization's view of parenting is the only view and that others *must* prefer this emotionally when it is simply not true. For one thing - looking at this from what he thinks women should want POV, said tribal woman gets to play with the babies after hers are older. I don't know where folks get these ideas. It's the USian isolated nuclear family thing. And the over-worn unthought cliche's about it. Like this thing about childcare providers being strangers. Banty |
#126
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Apr 19, 2:45 pm, agsf_57 wrote:
On Apr 19, 5:40 am, Banty wrote: In article , says... SNIP That is one of the most pathetic and sadist things I ever heard. I hope you improve. How on earth is that "pathetic" or "sad"?? That she rather have her child be raised and in company of strangers than to sit down with the child and help her grow. Incredibly sad and pathetic to accept the help and guidance of experienced people who love my child like their own and who want to help raise her. Yes, I will accept others helping to raise my child, because I don't think I'm so knowledgeable and experienced that I can do it 100% on my own. I have learned a lot from others, and will continue to accept their help. I'm thrilled my child has more than 2 adults in her life from whom she receives (and gives) love and affection and learns about life. |
#127
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
In article
, " wrote: I can't think of a reason why choosing *responsibly* to be a single mother would be a problem either (not that I think that's what you meant). I know one woman who adopted a child as a single woman, one who has twice had babies by artificial insemination, etc. And that's just in real life -- on the internet I know far more examples. Actually, I think it's extremely foolish to choose single motherhood. My Mum left Dad when we were small and took us to live with her widowed mother. Grandma dyed her hair and went to work until Mum was fit enough to work herself. Grandma was the SAHP for the next X years -- I always say I had three loving parents. But even with that support, being a single parent was terribly hard on my Mum. To walk into such a difficult life *voluntarily* boggles my mind. -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/ |
#128
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
"Chookie" wrote in message news:ehrebeniuk-461630.21282223042008@news... In article , " wrote: I can't think of a reason why choosing *responsibly* to be a single mother would be a problem either (not that I think that's what you meant). I know one woman who adopted a child as a single woman, one who has twice had babies by artificial insemination, etc. And that's just in real life -- on the internet I know far more examples. Actually, I think it's extremely foolish to choose single motherhood. My Mum left Dad when we were small and took us to live with her widowed mother. Grandma dyed her hair and went to work until Mum was fit enough to work herself. Grandma was the SAHP for the next X years -- I always say I had three loving parents. But even with that support, being a single parent was terribly hard on my Mum. To walk into such a difficult life *voluntarily* boggles my mind. -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/ Me too. Until I had my DD, I always thought I'd could have coped as a single mother. Then I had a child! I look forward to DH coming home and sharing the task with me! I love being a mother, and God forbid I was widowed, I hope that I could cope, but there's no way now that I'd ever choose to do it on my own. Everyone needs a day off, whether it be from working or from parenting. Lucy x |
#129
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Apr 23, 7:28*am, Chookie wrote:
In article , " wrote: I can't think of a reason why choosing *responsibly* to be a single mother would be a problem either (not that I think that's what you meant). I know one woman who adopted a child as a single woman, one who has twice had babies by artificial insemination, etc. And that's just in real life -- on the internet I know far more examples. Actually, I think it's extremely foolish to choose single motherhood. *My Mum left Dad when we were small and took us to live with her widowed mother. * Grandma dyed her hair and went to work until Mum was fit enough to work herself. *Grandma was the SAHP for the next X years -- I always say I had three loving parents. *But even with that support, being a single parent was terribly hard on my Mum. *To walk into such a difficult life *voluntarily* boggles my mind. Wow, Chookie and I agree on something . One caveat, though. Although I think married couples should be given preference over unmarried couples and single people in adoption, if there are not enough such couples to adopt the children available, single people should be considered. A single woman who has the resources, financial and otherwise, to provide a good home for a child who would otherwise be in an institution or in foster care should be applauded for doing so, IMO. Artificial insemination of single women, is different IMO. Here the woman is deliberately creating a child who will never know his or her father and his relatives, and that is wrong. I've read stories in the New York Times about how women choose sperm donors, and a few mentioned that they would not want a "prolific" donor, because that would increase the chance of accidental incest of his offspring. That is just one reason why a child should not be deprived of knowing who his or her father is. From the societal point of view, male sperm donors should not be able revoke their responsibility to financially support the children they father. If the mother dies, for example, the father, not the taxpayer, ought to be first means of support, and he ought to be given the chance to adopt the child. |
#130
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
In article ,
Beliavsky says... On Apr 23, 7:28=A0am, Chookie wrote: In article , " wrote: I can't think of a reason why choosing *responsibly* to be a single mother would be a problem either (not that I think that's what you meant). I know one woman who adopted a child as a single woman, one who has twice had babies by artificial insemination, etc. And that's just in real life -- on the internet I know far more examples. Actually, I think it's extremely foolish to choose single motherhood. =A0M= y Mum left Dad when we were small and took us to live with her widowed mother. = =A0 Grandma dyed her hair and went to work until Mum was fit enough to work herself. =A0Grandma was the SAHP for the next X years -- I always say I ha= d three loving parents. =A0But even with that support, being a single parent= was terribly hard on my Mum. =A0To walk into such a difficult life *voluntaril= y* boggles my mind. Wow, Chookie and I agree on something . One caveat, though. Although I think married couples should be given preference over unmarried couples and single people in adoption, if there are not enough such couples to adopt the children available, single people should be considered. A single woman who has the resources, financial and otherwise, to provide a good home for a child who would otherwise be in an institution or in foster care should be applauded for doing so, IMO. How odd. Wouldn't the children with more needs, need two legally committed adults in their household to deal with the difficulties, and more resources than those who don't? Banty |
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