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#1
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More homework ranting!
I can't get off the homework issue, can I?
Seriously, the homework has been going a bit better so far this year with Julian. He still complains about it, but he's getting better at buckling down and doing it, partly because we had a conversation where I essentially shifted responsibility to him. I asked him if *he* thought completing it was important and he said he did. Since *he* thinks it's important, he's more willing to do it. Last night was Back-to-School/Curriculum night. I didn't get to go because Vernon has a cold and I didn't feel it would be fair to leave him with a sitter (the only person we could get was someone he knows, but not very well, and I didn't think it would be nice for either one of them to have a first babysitting encounter when he was so fussy and unhappy). My husband went and reported the teacher says Julian is doing quite well, and apparently some of the issues we had early on (like her keeping him in from recess to finish work) have dissipated. But... My husband told me the teacher said the homework is "optional". She told him it is just meant as extra practice but there's no requirement for us to do it. I said this was great news. Now, the kicker. She also said it would "lower his grade" on his report card if he *didn't* complete and turn in the homework. /rant on Okay, would someone kindly explain to me how it is fair to lower someone's grade for failing to turn in OPTIONAL work? I can see how it is fair to *raise* the grade of someone who DOES turn in the optional work. But how can you *lose* points for not doing something you weren't required to do anyway? Talk about speaking with a forked tongue. This just seems to me to be a way to GUILT us into doing the homework even when it's not practical because Julian will be punished (by a poor grade) if he doesn't do it. Good thing, then, that I don't think of much for grades on things like homework completion for first-graders. Still, I'm ticked off about it. It's either optional or it isn't, and if you're going to reduce the grade you give if something *isn't* done, then it *isn't* optional! /rant off Discuss g! -- Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom) See us at http://photos.yahoo.com/guavaln This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: "No parking passed this sign" -- hotel parking lot sign All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman |
#2
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More homework ranting!
"Sue" wrote in message
... I don't know what to say, lol. I am in awe. She can't lower a grade on something optional. Looks like you have a letter to write or a call to make Well, I can only hope that I misunderstood my husband and that she means he will get a grade of S (Satisfactory) instead of a grade of O (Outstanding) if he doesn't complete the homework regularly. But I am rather expecting a grade of N (Needs Improvement). I am inclined to wait and see at the first grading period and then, if the grade is N and we haven't turned in all of the homework, I will ask her how it can be N if the homework is, as she told my husband, optional. -- Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom) See us at http://photos.yahoo.com/guavaln This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: "No parking passed this sign" -- hotel parking lot sign All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman |
#3
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More homework ranting!
In article ,
"Sue" wrote: I don't know what to say, lol. I am in awe. She can't lower a grade on something optional. Looks like you have a letter to write or a call to make ;o) But they can *raise* a grade for something optional. For example, in my son's choir class, the sort of met-all-class-requirements default grade is a "B"; to get an "A", you have to add an "optional" activity, such as singing in an outside group. It isn't required to pass the class, but IS required to earn an "A". By the same token, it might not be possible to get an "A" in elementary school without doing the homework, while the homework is still considered "optional", because you can pass the class without doing it, and you don't get into any sort of trouble for not doing it. At that point, the teacher *should* say, "homework is optional, but if you do it you can earn a higher grade." However, the teacher might instead say "homework is optional, but if you don't do it you will get a lower grade". Both statements are accurate -- but the teacher isn't lowering the grade for undone homework, only raising it for optional homework. Does this make any sense at all? meh -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care |
#4
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More homework ranting!
"Circe" wrote in message news:y8lab.40995$n94.27540@fed1read04... I can't get off the homework issue, can I? My husband told me the teacher said the homework is "optional". She told him it is just meant as extra practice but there's no requirement for us to do it. I said this was great news. Now, the kicker. She also said it would "lower his grade" on his report card if he *didn't* complete and turn in the homework. /rant on Okay, would someone kindly explain to me how it is fair to lower someone's grade for failing to turn in OPTIONAL work? I can see how it is fair to *raise* the grade of someone who DOES turn in the optional work. But how can you *lose* points for not doing something you weren't required to do anyway? Talk about speaking with a forked tongue. This just seems to me to be a way to GUILT us into doing the homework even when it's not practical because Julian will be punished (by a poor grade) if he doesn't do it. Good thing, then, that I don't think of much for grades on things like homework completion for first-graders. Still, I'm ticked off about it. It's either optional or it isn't, and if you're going to reduce the grade you give if something *isn't* done, then it *isn't* optional! /rant off Discuss g! There are lots of levels of optional. From an existential point of view, eating, wearing a coat in the winter, and actually showing up at work are all optional. If you don't ever eat, you will probably die. If you don't wear a coat you will likely get cold. If you don't show up at work you will probably get fired. But there is no one that is going to force you to do all those things. In that sense, homework, school work, or even school in general is optional. Oh, but if you want good grades from the school its highly suggested you do homework, finish school work, and show up for school. Now, you might want to step back a bit. Do they get grades in 1st grade at this school, or just pass/fail type stuff? Does not doing homework mean he gets a Satisfactory instead of an Excellent? How bad does he need the Excellent? In first grade? If he skips the homework altogether will he keep up, so he's guaranteed to pass? Or is it possible without doing the homework he'd be on the hairy edge of passing the year end test? I'd say if he can get to 2nd grade without doing homework in first grade it is optional. |
#5
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More homework ranting!
Barbara ) wrote:
I can see how it is fair to *raise* the grade of someone who DOES turn in the optional work. But how can you *lose* points for not doing something you weren't required to do anyway? *giggle* This is reminding me of the time my dad got very upset with a gas station that advertised 5% DISCOUNT FOR CASH and then made him pay the exact price on the meter even though it was in cash. The guy said, "Well, if you would of paid with a credit card it would of been 5% more." My dad's eyes popped and he roared, "That's not a discount, that's a surcharge!" --Helen |
#6
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More homework ranting!
"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
.com... In that sense, homework, school work, or even school in general is optional. Oh, but if you want good grades from the school its highly suggested you do homework, finish school work, and show up for school. Well, actually, showing up for school *isn't* optional if you're under the age of 16. But the rest, I agree, is optional to the degree you've specified. However, when a teacher tells me something is "optional", I presume it is meant in the sense of "you will not suffer any negative consequences if you do not do it, though you may experience positive results of you do." I can hardly imagine any teacher telling me that my son's attendance at school or completion of classwork was "optional"; can you? Now, you might want to step back a bit. Do they get grades in 1st grade at this school, or just pass/fail type stuff? Does not doing homework mean he gets a Satisfactory instead of an Excellent? How bad does he need the Excellent? In first grade? Well, that's really the question. I actually won't be bothered at all if not turning in the homework results in a Satisfactory grade. I *would* be bothered if not turning it in resulted in a Needs Improvement grade. Equally, I will be annoyed if we do manage to do all or nearly all of the homework and he gets only a Satisfactory mark. I think if it's truly optional and we do all or nearly all of it, he should get an Outstanding. My problem isn't with the idea that turning in optional homework gets a higher grade, but that *not* turning it in gets a lower one. The first statement implies raising the grade from the baseline; the second implies dropping the grade from the baseline. But the baseline should reflect the minimum that is expected or required of the student for satisfactory performance, and if completion of the homework is expected or required for that, then it is NOT optional (in the sense of something we can do if we feel like it with no negative consequences). I'm more or less letting *him* decide whether to do the homework or not based on how important *he* feels it is. I push a little, just reminding him that he has told me he thinks it's important. And, so far, that's been sufficient motivation for him to do it. If he skips the homework altogether will he keep up, so he's guaranteed to pass? Or is it possible without doing the homework he'd be on the hairy edge of passing the year end test? I'd say if he can get to 2nd grade without doing homework in first grade it is optional. Based on our kindergarten experience, I'd say he'd be promoted even if he never did a lick of homework. Most of it is, IMO, busywork. Not harmful, mind you, but not enough to make a *huge* difference in his abilities. -- Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom) See us at http://photos.yahoo.com/guavaln This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: "No parking passed this sign" -- hotel parking lot sign All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman |
#7
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More homework ranting!
I don't know what to say, lol. I am in awe. She can't lower a grade on
something optional. Looks like you have a letter to write or a call to make ;o) -- Sue mom to three girls Circe wrote in message news:y8lab.40995$n94.27540@fed1read04... I can't get off the homework issue, can I? Seriously, the homework has been going a bit better so far this year with Julian. He still complains about it, but he's getting better at buckling down and doing it, partly because we had a conversation where I essentially shifted responsibility to him. I asked him if *he* thought completing it was important and he said he did. Since *he* thinks it's important, he's more willing to do it. Last night was Back-to-School/Curriculum night. I didn't get to go because Vernon has a cold and I didn't feel it would be fair to leave him with a sitter (the only person we could get was someone he knows, but not very well, and I didn't think it would be nice for either one of them to have a first babysitting encounter when he was so fussy and unhappy). My husband went and reported the teacher says Julian is doing quite well, and apparently some of the issues we had early on (like her keeping him in from recess to finish work) have dissipated. But... My husband told me the teacher said the homework is "optional". She told him it is just meant as extra practice but there's no requirement for us to do it. I said this was great news. Now, the kicker. She also said it would "lower his grade" on his report card if he *didn't* complete and turn in the homework. /rant on Okay, would someone kindly explain to me how it is fair to lower someone's grade for failing to turn in OPTIONAL work? I can see how it is fair to *raise* the grade of someone who DOES turn in the optional work. But how can you *lose* points for not doing something you weren't required to do anyway? Talk about speaking with a forked tongue. This just seems to me to be a way to GUILT us into doing the homework even when it's not practical because Julian will be punished (by a poor grade) if he doesn't do it. Good thing, then, that I don't think of much for grades on things like homework completion for first-graders. Still, I'm ticked off about it. It's either optional or it isn't, and if you're going to reduce the grade you give if something *isn't* done, then it *isn't* optional! /rant off Discuss g! -- Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom) See us at http://photos.yahoo.com/guavaln This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: "No parking passed this sign" -- hotel parking lot sign All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman |
#8
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More homework ranting!
"Circe" wrote in message news:OBoab.41715$n94.2004@fed1read04... "Cathy Kearns" wrote in message .com... In that sense, homework, school work, or even school in general is optional. Oh, but if you want good grades from the school its highly suggested you do homework, finish school work, and show up for school. Well, actually, showing up for school *isn't* optional if you're under the age of 16. It's still optional. Murder is an option that you and I have. We'll be punished for it, but it's still an option. If we have the will, then no one can likely stop us from doing it. However, when a teacher tells me something is "optional", I presume it is meant in the sense of "you will not suffer any negative consequences if you do not do it, though you may experience positive results of you do." I agree. It was misleading by the teacher, particularly for those who are very young, who likely could not understand any qualifiers. I can hardly imagine any teacher telling me that my son's attendance at school or completion of classwork was "optional"; can you? At the high school level, I often asked a failing student why she/he was showing up for school. They don't have too, even though there are consequences. No one shoves them in the room, but their own two feet walk them through the door. It's important that, at some point, students start doing some self- reflection and asking themselves why they are doing what they are doing. A troubled student will never turn around, imo, if she/he feels that she/he is being forced to do what she/he is doing instead of making the individual choice on her/his own. It has to come from within. A lengthy diversion, but it's a subject of interest to me. ;-) P. Tierney |
#9
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More homework ranting!
"Circe" wrote in message news:y8lab.40995$n94.27540@fed1read04... /rant on Okay, would someone kindly explain to me how it is fair to lower someone's grade for failing to turn in OPTIONAL work? I can see how it is fair to *raise* the grade of someone who DOES turn in the optional work. But how can you *lose* points for not doing something you weren't required to do anyway? Talk about speaking with a forked tongue. This just seems to me to be a way to GUILT us into doing the homework even when it's not practical because Julian will be punished (by a poor grade) if he doesn't do it. Good thing, then, that I don't think of much for grades on things like homework completion for first-graders. Still, I'm ticked off about it. It's either optional or it isn't, and if you're going to reduce the grade you give if something *isn't* done, then it *isn't* optional! /rant off It's not really optional if not doing it lowers the grade. I'm with you, she needs to state her expectations more clearly. It's not fair to the students to call it something it's not. |
#10
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More homework ranting!
"dragonlady" wrote in message ... At that point, the teacher *should* say, "homework is optional, but if you do it you can earn a higher grade." However, the teacher might instead say "homework is optional, but if you don't do it you will get a lower grade". Both statements are accurate -- but the teacher isn't lowering the grade for undone homework, only raising it for optional homework. Does this make any sense at all? I see what you're saying, but I don't agree. Through all my years of school, optional work was extra credit. If a student was a B student, he could raise his grade to an A. But a student who was an A student had the option of not doing the extra work. It was for students who needed to boost their grade. If the optional work was needed to get the A, then it wasn't really optional, because it was mandatory to do if he wanted the highest grade. |
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