A Parenting & kids forum. ParentingBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » ParentingBanter.com forum » misc.kids » General
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

More homework ranting!



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 18th 03, 05:34 PM
Circe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default More homework ranting!

I can't get off the homework issue, can I?

Seriously, the homework has been going a bit better so far this year with
Julian. He still complains about it, but he's getting better at buckling
down and doing it, partly because we had a conversation where I essentially
shifted responsibility to him. I asked him if *he* thought completing it was
important and he said he did. Since *he* thinks it's important, he's more
willing to do it.

Last night was Back-to-School/Curriculum night. I didn't get to go because
Vernon has a cold and I didn't feel it would be fair to leave him with a
sitter (the only person we could get was someone he knows, but not very
well, and I didn't think it would be nice for either one of them to have a
first babysitting encounter when he was so fussy and unhappy). My husband
went and reported the teacher says Julian is doing quite well, and
apparently some of the issues we had early on (like her keeping him in from
recess to finish work) have dissipated. But...

My husband told me the teacher said the homework is "optional". She told him
it is just meant as extra practice but there's no requirement for us to do
it. I said this was great news. Now, the kicker. She also said it would
"lower his grade" on his report card if he *didn't* complete and turn in the
homework.

/rant on

Okay, would someone kindly explain to me how it is fair to lower someone's
grade for failing to turn in OPTIONAL work? I can see how it is fair to
*raise* the grade of someone who DOES turn in the optional work. But how can
you *lose* points for not doing something you weren't required to do anyway?

Talk about speaking with a forked tongue. This just seems to me to be a way
to GUILT us into doing the homework even when it's not practical because
Julian will be punished (by a poor grade) if he doesn't do it. Good thing,
then, that I don't think of much for grades on things like homework
completion for first-graders. Still, I'm ticked off about it. It's either
optional or it isn't, and if you're going to reduce the grade you give if
something *isn't* done, then it *isn't* optional!

/rant off

Discuss g!
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom)
See us at http://photos.yahoo.com/guavaln

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"No parking passed this sign" -- hotel parking lot sign

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman


  #2  
Old September 18th 03, 08:50 PM
Circe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default More homework ranting!

"Sue" wrote in message
...
I don't know what to say, lol. I am in awe. She can't lower a grade on
something optional. Looks like you have a letter to write or a call to

make

Well, I can only hope that I misunderstood my husband and that she means he
will get a grade of S (Satisfactory) instead of a grade of O (Outstanding)
if he doesn't complete the homework regularly. But I am rather expecting a
grade of N (Needs Improvement).

I am inclined to wait and see at the first grading period and then, if the
grade is N and we haven't turned in all of the homework, I will ask her how
it can be N if the homework is, as she told my husband, optional.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom)
See us at http://photos.yahoo.com/guavaln

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"No parking passed this sign" -- hotel parking lot sign

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman


  #3  
Old September 18th 03, 09:01 PM
dragonlady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default More homework ranting!

In article ,
"Sue" wrote:

I don't know what to say, lol. I am in awe. She can't lower a grade on
something optional. Looks like you have a letter to write or a call to make
;o)



But they can *raise* a grade for something optional. For example, in my
son's choir class, the sort of met-all-class-requirements default grade
is a "B"; to get an "A", you have to add an "optional" activity, such
as singing in an outside group. It isn't required to pass the class,
but IS required to earn an "A".

By the same token, it might not be possible to get an "A" in elementary
school without doing the homework, while the homework is still
considered "optional", because you can pass the class without doing it,
and you don't get into any sort of trouble for not doing it.

At that point, the teacher *should* say, "homework is optional, but if
you do it you can earn a higher grade." However, the teacher might
instead say "homework is optional, but if you don't do it you will get a
lower grade". Both statements are accurate -- but the teacher isn't
lowering the grade for undone homework, only raising it for optional
homework.

Does this make any sense at all?

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

  #4  
Old September 18th 03, 09:18 PM
Cathy Kearns
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default More homework ranting!


"Circe" wrote in message
news:y8lab.40995$n94.27540@fed1read04...
I can't get off the homework issue, can I?


My husband told me the teacher said the homework is "optional". She told

him
it is just meant as extra practice but there's no requirement for us to do
it. I said this was great news. Now, the kicker. She also said it would
"lower his grade" on his report card if he *didn't* complete and turn in

the
homework.

/rant on

Okay, would someone kindly explain to me how it is fair to lower someone's
grade for failing to turn in OPTIONAL work? I can see how it is fair to
*raise* the grade of someone who DOES turn in the optional work. But how

can
you *lose* points for not doing something you weren't required to do

anyway?

Talk about speaking with a forked tongue. This just seems to me to be a

way
to GUILT us into doing the homework even when it's not practical because
Julian will be punished (by a poor grade) if he doesn't do it. Good thing,
then, that I don't think of much for grades on things like homework
completion for first-graders. Still, I'm ticked off about it. It's either
optional or it isn't, and if you're going to reduce the grade you give if
something *isn't* done, then it *isn't* optional!

/rant off

Discuss g!


There are lots of levels of optional. From an existential point
of view, eating, wearing a coat in the winter, and actually
showing up at work are all optional. If you don't ever eat, you
will probably die. If you don't wear a coat you will likely get
cold. If you don't show up at work you will probably get
fired. But there is no one that is going to force you to do
all those things. In that sense, homework, school work, or even school
in general is optional. Oh, but if you want good grades from
the school its highly suggested you do homework, finish school
work, and show up for school.

Now, you might want to step back a bit. Do they get grades
in 1st grade at this school, or just pass/fail type stuff? Does
not doing homework mean he gets a Satisfactory instead of
an Excellent? How bad does he need the Excellent? In
first grade? If he skips the homework altogether will he
keep up, so he's guaranteed to pass? Or is it possible
without doing the homework he'd be on the hairy edge
of passing the year end test? I'd say if he can get to 2nd
grade without doing homework in first grade it is optional.


  #5  
Old September 18th 03, 09:19 PM
H Schinske
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default More homework ranting!

Barbara ) wrote:

I can see how it is fair to
*raise* the grade of someone who DOES turn in the optional work. But how can
you *lose* points for not doing something you weren't required to do anyway?


*giggle* This is reminding me of the time my dad got very upset with a gas
station that advertised 5% DISCOUNT FOR CASH and then made him pay the exact
price on the meter even though it was in cash. The guy said, "Well, if you
would of paid with a credit card it would of been 5% more." My dad's eyes
popped and he roared, "That's not a discount, that's a surcharge!"

--Helen
  #6  
Old September 18th 03, 09:30 PM
Circe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default More homework ranting!

"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
.com...
In that sense, homework, school work, or even school
in general is optional. Oh, but if you want good grades from
the school its highly suggested you do homework, finish school
work, and show up for school.

Well, actually, showing up for school *isn't* optional if you're under the
age of 16. But the rest, I agree, is optional to the degree you've
specified.

However, when a teacher tells me something is "optional", I presume it is
meant in the sense of "you will not suffer any negative consequences if you
do not do it, though you may experience positive results of you do." I can
hardly imagine any teacher telling me that my son's attendance at school or
completion of classwork was "optional"; can you?

Now, you might want to step back a bit. Do they get grades
in 1st grade at this school, or just pass/fail type stuff? Does
not doing homework mean he gets a Satisfactory instead of
an Excellent? How bad does he need the Excellent? In
first grade?


Well, that's really the question. I actually won't be bothered at all if not
turning in the homework results in a Satisfactory grade. I *would* be
bothered if not turning it in resulted in a Needs Improvement grade.
Equally, I will be annoyed if we do manage to do all or nearly all of the
homework and he gets only a Satisfactory mark. I think if it's truly
optional and we do all or nearly all of it, he should get an Outstanding.

My problem isn't with the idea that turning in optional homework gets a
higher grade, but that *not* turning it in gets a lower one. The first
statement implies raising the grade from the baseline; the second implies
dropping the grade from the baseline. But the baseline should reflect the
minimum that is expected or required of the student for satisfactory
performance, and if completion of the homework is expected or required for
that, then it is NOT optional (in the sense of something we can do if we
feel like it with no negative consequences).

I'm more or less letting *him* decide whether to do the homework or not
based on how important *he* feels it is. I push a little, just reminding him
that he has told me he thinks it's important. And, so far, that's been
sufficient motivation for him to do it.

If he skips the homework altogether will he
keep up, so he's guaranteed to pass? Or is it possible
without doing the homework he'd be on the hairy edge
of passing the year end test? I'd say if he can get to 2nd
grade without doing homework in first grade it is optional.

Based on our kindergarten experience, I'd say he'd be promoted even if he
never did a lick of homework. Most of it is, IMO, busywork. Not harmful,
mind you, but not enough to make a *huge* difference in his abilities.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom)
See us at http://photos.yahoo.com/guavaln

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"No parking passed this sign" -- hotel parking lot sign

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman


  #7  
Old September 18th 03, 11:18 PM
Sue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default More homework ranting!

I don't know what to say, lol. I am in awe. She can't lower a grade on
something optional. Looks like you have a letter to write or a call to make
;o)
--
Sue
mom to three girls

Circe wrote in message
news:y8lab.40995$n94.27540@fed1read04...
I can't get off the homework issue, can I?

Seriously, the homework has been going a bit better so far this year with
Julian. He still complains about it, but he's getting better at buckling
down and doing it, partly because we had a conversation where I

essentially
shifted responsibility to him. I asked him if *he* thought completing it

was
important and he said he did. Since *he* thinks it's important, he's more
willing to do it.

Last night was Back-to-School/Curriculum night. I didn't get to go

because
Vernon has a cold and I didn't feel it would be fair to leave him with a
sitter (the only person we could get was someone he knows, but not very
well, and I didn't think it would be nice for either one of them to have a
first babysitting encounter when he was so fussy and unhappy). My husband
went and reported the teacher says Julian is doing quite well, and
apparently some of the issues we had early on (like her keeping him in

from
recess to finish work) have dissipated. But...

My husband told me the teacher said the homework is "optional". She told

him
it is just meant as extra practice but there's no requirement for us to do
it. I said this was great news. Now, the kicker. She also said it would
"lower his grade" on his report card if he *didn't* complete and turn in

the
homework.

/rant on

Okay, would someone kindly explain to me how it is fair to lower someone's
grade for failing to turn in OPTIONAL work? I can see how it is fair to
*raise* the grade of someone who DOES turn in the optional work. But how

can
you *lose* points for not doing something you weren't required to do

anyway?

Talk about speaking with a forked tongue. This just seems to me to be a

way
to GUILT us into doing the homework even when it's not practical because
Julian will be punished (by a poor grade) if he doesn't do it. Good thing,
then, that I don't think of much for grades on things like homework
completion for first-graders. Still, I'm ticked off about it. It's either
optional or it isn't, and if you're going to reduce the grade you give if
something *isn't* done, then it *isn't* optional!

/rant off

Discuss g!
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom)
See us at http://photos.yahoo.com/guavaln

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"No parking passed this sign" -- hotel parking lot sign

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman




  #8  
Old September 19th 03, 12:03 AM
P. Tierney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default More homework ranting!


"Circe" wrote in message
news:OBoab.41715$n94.2004@fed1read04...
"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
.com...
In that sense, homework, school work, or even school
in general is optional. Oh, but if you want good grades from
the school its highly suggested you do homework, finish school
work, and show up for school.

Well, actually, showing up for school *isn't* optional if you're under the
age of 16.


It's still optional. Murder is an option that you and I have. We'll
be punished for it, but it's still an option. If we have the will, then
no one can likely stop us from doing it.

However, when a teacher tells me something is "optional", I presume it is
meant in the sense of "you will not suffer any negative consequences if

you
do not do it, though you may experience positive results of you do."


I agree. It was misleading by the teacher, particularly for those
who are very young, who likely could not understand any qualifiers.

I can
hardly imagine any teacher telling me that my son's attendance at school

or
completion of classwork was "optional"; can you?


At the high school level, I often asked a failing student why she/he
was showing up for school. They don't have too, even though there are
consequences. No one shoves them in the room, but their own two feet
walk them through the door.

It's important that, at some point, students start doing some self-
reflection and asking themselves why they are doing what they are
doing. A troubled student will never turn around, imo, if she/he
feels that she/he is being forced to do what she/he is doing
instead of making the individual choice on her/his own. It
has to come from within.

A lengthy diversion, but it's a subject of interest to me. ;-)



P.
Tierney


  #9  
Old September 19th 03, 03:39 AM
toypup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default More homework ranting!


"Circe" wrote in message
news:y8lab.40995$n94.27540@fed1read04...
/rant on

Okay, would someone kindly explain to me how it is fair to lower someone's
grade for failing to turn in OPTIONAL work? I can see how it is fair to
*raise* the grade of someone who DOES turn in the optional work. But how

can
you *lose* points for not doing something you weren't required to do

anyway?

Talk about speaking with a forked tongue. This just seems to me to be a

way
to GUILT us into doing the homework even when it's not practical because
Julian will be punished (by a poor grade) if he doesn't do it. Good thing,
then, that I don't think of much for grades on things like homework
completion for first-graders. Still, I'm ticked off about it. It's either
optional or it isn't, and if you're going to reduce the grade you give if
something *isn't* done, then it *isn't* optional!

/rant off


It's not really optional if not doing it lowers the grade. I'm with you,
she needs to state her expectations more clearly. It's not fair to the
students to call it something it's not.


  #10  
Old September 19th 03, 03:43 AM
toypup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default More homework ranting!


"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
At that point, the teacher *should* say, "homework is optional, but if
you do it you can earn a higher grade." However, the teacher might
instead say "homework is optional, but if you don't do it you will get a
lower grade". Both statements are accurate -- but the teacher isn't
lowering the grade for undone homework, only raising it for optional
homework.

Does this make any sense at all?


I see what you're saying, but I don't agree. Through all my years of school,
optional work was extra credit. If a student was a B student, he could
raise his grade to an A. But a student who was an A student had the option
of not doing the extra work. It was for students who needed to boost their
grade. If the optional work was needed to get the A, then it wasn't really
optional, because it was mandatory to do if he wanted the highest grade.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 ParentingBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.