Dr. Dobson again.

Imagine, this guy is heavily influencing our current adminstration.
Directly.

http://nightlight.typepad.com/nightl...aning_of_life/

Remember spankers, this guy claims he's "spanking."

"god obedience school: will the senate 'dare to discipline' dobson?

The surly and strong-willed James Dobson is now daring Senators to
question him after being caught in a lie. What kind of advice do
Dobson's books offer the Senate? "A little bit of pain goes a long
way" in teaching "how to submit to other forms of authority ... --
his teachers, school principal, police, neighbors and employers." Look
out, Sen. Specter: this could be a rough ride.

I wouldn't want to mischaracterize the Reverend/Doctor on the subject
of physical violence and corporal punishment. He hasn't advocated the
physical beating of adults - as far as I know. He confines that
practice to small children, in books like "Dare to Discipline" and
"The Strong-Willed Child." And he's generous enough to allow that
"it is not necessary to beat the child into submission," just that
"the spanking should be of sufficient magnitude to cause the child to
cry genuinely."

Dobson became infamous when he recounted how he handled a dog that he
considered disobedient:

"I had seen this defiant mood before, and knew there was only one
way to deal with it. The ONLY way to make Siggie obey is to threaten
him with destruction. Nothing else works. I turned and went to my
closet and got a small belt to help me 'reason' with Mr. Freud ...

What developed next is impossible to describe. That tiny dog and I
had the most vicious fight ever staged between man and beast. I fought
him up one wall and down the other, with both of us scratching and
clawing and growling and swinging the belt."

Fortunately, we live in a civilized society where many people react to
Dr. Dobson's ideas - about young and old, gay and straight - with
appropriate revulsion. His behavior is repellent to the civilized mind.
That's lucky for him. He wouldn't want the Senate to respond the
way he advises parents to do: "When you are defiantly challenged, win
decisively." A Contempt of Congress charge can sure cramp a guy's
dog-beating style.

ah yes the famous dog fight I think that is in the first chapter of "the strong willed child" isn't it?

As I was reading that, I thought "if he treats his beloved dog in that fashion, how did he treat his children"

Originally Posted by 0:-

Imagine, this guy is heavily influencing our current adminstration.
Directly.

http://nightlight.typepad.com/nightl...aning_of_life/

Remember spankers, this guy claims he's "spanking."

"god obedience school: will the senate 'dare to discipline' dobson?

The surly and strong-willed James Dobson is now daring Senators to
question him after being caught in a lie. What kind of advice do
Dobson's books offer the Senate? "A little bit of pain goes a long
way" in teaching "how to submit to other forms of authority ... --
his teachers, school principal, police, neighbors and employers." Look
out, Sen. Specter: this could be a rough ride.

I wouldn't want to mischaracterize the Reverend/Doctor on the subject
of physical violence and corporal punishment. He hasn't advocated the
physical beating of adults - as far as I know. He confines that
practice to small children, in books like "Dare to Discipline" and
"The Strong-Willed Child." And he's generous enough to allow that
"it is not necessary to beat the child into submission," just that
"the spanking should be of sufficient magnitude to cause the child to
cry genuinely."

Dobson became infamous when he recounted how he handled a dog that he
considered disobedient:

"I had seen this defiant mood before, and knew there was only one
way to deal with it. The ONLY way to make Siggie obey is to threaten
him with destruction. Nothing else works. I turned and went to my
closet and got a small belt to help me 'reason' with Mr. Freud ...

What developed next is impossible to describe. That tiny dog and I
had the most vicious fight ever staged between man and beast. I fought
him up one wall and down the other, with both of us scratching and
clawing and growling and swinging the belt."

Fortunately, we live in a civilized society where many people react to
Dr. Dobson's ideas - about young and old, gay and straight - with
appropriate revulsion. His behavior is repellent to the civilized mind.
That's lucky for him. He wouldn't want the Senate to respond the
way he advises parents to do: "When you are defiantly challenged, win
decisively." A Contempt of Congress charge can sure cramp a guy's
dog-beating style.

beccafromlalaland wrote:
ah yes the famous dog fight I think that is in the first chapter of "the
strong willed child" isn't it?

As I was reading that, I thought "if he treats his beloved dog in that
fashion, how did he treat his children"

He is one of a few that publish and advocate for such treatment of
children. They have been the cause, by being the "authoritative
source," of some parents being investigated by CPS for child
abuse...when they were just "disciplining" according to their advice.

You should real the Pearls. Now there's some sickness. Pulling the hair
of nursing babies. Swatting the hands of tiny infants. Switching a
child until he stops crying, and that is children under 2 years old.

Much more.

And the reason I oppose and expose Doan is that he condones these
people 'making their own decision." In other words, NO social
responsibility, and no honor when it comes to taking a stand. He
refuses, as he claims, to be for or against spanking, yet you NEVER see
him defend nonspanking, only spanking.

And no, I do NOT suffer fools gladly. And it is NOT childish to expose
him. I resent your claiming it is. Stop it. These are the people, Doan
among them, that foster such things as child deaths and beatings by
their support for corporal punishment.

The time for politeness was gone long ago in this debate. It's
children's PAIN we are discussing here, not which flowers are best for
weddings and which for memorial day.

Sorry if that insults you, but take some time to think about the pain
children suffer because this still goes on and people like Doan won't
take a stand against it.

--
beccafromlalaland

Best wishes, Kane

So did you read the whole book or just chapter one? I think only the
parents know their children best, not the "experts". But reading a
book and learning to take what is useful while discarding what is not
is a better approach.

Doan


On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, beccafromlalaland wrote:


ah yes the famous dog fight I think that is in the first chapter of "the
strong willed child" isn't it?

As I was reading that, I thought "if he treats his beloved dog in that
fashion, how did he treat his children"


0:- Wrote:
Imagine, this guy is heavily influencing our current adminstration.
Directly.

http://tinyurl.com/clyoh

Remember spankers, this guy claims he's "spanking."

"god obedience school: will the senate 'dare to discipline' dobson?

The surly and strong-willed James Dobson is now daring Senators to
question him after being caught in a lie. What kind of advice do
Dobson's books offer the Senate? "A little bit of pain goes a long
way" in teaching "how to submit to other forms of authority ... --
his teachers, school principal, police, neighbors and employers." Look
out, Sen. Specter: this could be a rough ride.

I wouldn't want to mischaracterize the Reverend/Doctor on the subject
of physical violence and corporal punishment. He hasn't advocated the
physical beating of adults - as far as I know. He confines that
practice to small children, in books like "Dare to Discipline" and
"The Strong-Willed Child." And he's generous enough to allow that
"it is not necessary to beat the child into submission," just that
"the spanking should be of sufficient magnitude to cause the child to
cry genuinely."

Dobson became infamous when he recounted how he handled a dog that he
considered disobedient:

"I had seen this defiant mood before, and knew there was only one
way to deal with it. The ONLY way to make Siggie obey is to threaten
him with destruction. Nothing else works. I turned and went to my
closet and got a small belt to help me 'reason' with Mr. Freud ...

What developed next is impossible to describe. That tiny dog and I
had the most vicious fight ever staged between man and beast. I fought
him up one wall and down the other, with both of us scratching and
clawing and growling and swinging the belt."

Fortunately, we live in a civilized society where many people react to
Dr. Dobson's ideas - about young and old, gay and straight - with
appropriate revulsion. His behavior is repellent to the civilized
mind.
That's lucky for him. He wouldn't want the Senate to respond the
way he advises parents to do: "When you are defiantly challenged, win
decisively." A Contempt of Congress charge can sure cramp a guy's
dog-beating style.


--
beccafromlalaland

beccafromlalaland wrote:
ah yes the famous dog fight I think that is in the first chapter of "the
strong willed child" isn't it?

As I was reading that, I thought "if he treats his beloved dog in that
fashion, how did he treat his children"


The only "debate" you'll find on this topic here from those willing to
have parents use CP on their children (and sometimes worse) is that
"Parents know their children best," as if the "experts" who do write
and study on such issues of child development and non punitive or non
cp parenting methods are attempting to claim they know an indivual
child best.

The logic is of course deliberately off track because of course the
spankers have no other reasonable logical support for hitting children,
other than arguing about whether hitting is spanking and similar
illogical tripe.

Some hitting is not spanking, of course, but ALL spanking requries the
child to be hit. One cannot spank without the act of hitting.

The claim that experts are trying to tell parents that they the experts
know the child best is nonsense.

They do though, if they have studied the issues well, know "CHILDREN"
better than most parents, and far better than those that have NOT
studied the issues related to child rearing.

But this is what I've dealt with here for years.

And spanking proponents and apologists have inveriably moved into the
nutso-debate style.

They think it clever to be as slyly manipulative of words as possible.
They not only insult the chidlren that are in pain, they make a lessor
insult as well....to the english language, and to logical thought and
analysis.

Here's some of the "logic" anti spanking proponents must deal with.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/...403119,00.html
This is a discussion of the recent rulings in Mephis TN to end paddling
in schools.

The article ends by presenting an argument of how costly it has become
to provide a "school discipline system" now that paddling is out.

What everyone misses of course, is that locically they used paddling
as a "paddling to save money" technique, and that's why there is no
OTHER SYSTEM already in place (the spanker's claim is "spankers do more
than spank" -- what bull. They have little in place BUT spanking).

Without a long tern non-punitive system in place of course the children
are unfamiliar with non punitive methods and react. But is it their
fault they were brutalized by the paddling culture, or is it the fault
of the paddlers. It will take years to overcome the decades of
paddling...likely out to a hundred years or more. I doubt it will take
that long when children are treated respectfully to return the favor,
as I know children do when so treated.

"Paddling for Dollars," should be the humorous motto laid on those that
protest the departure from paddling in Memphis schools.

And yo've noticed, after Dr. Dobson being the darling of the spanking
proponents in this ng for years, suddenly they are silent when it's
revealed what a thug the man is and was. Typical

I'm waiting for them to defend him, again. To point out his
"credientials," to us, and claim him as their authority for using
spanking. Think they will?

R R R R R

Best, Kane

On 23 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:


beccafromlalaland wrote:
ah yes the famous dog fight I think that is in the first chapter of "the
strong willed child" isn't it?

As I was reading that, I thought "if he treats his beloved dog in that
fashion, how did he treat his children"


The only "debate" you'll find on this topic here from those willing to
have parents use CP on their children (and sometimes worse) is that
"Parents know their children best," as if the "experts" who do write
and study on such issues of child development and non punitive or non
cp parenting methods are attempting to claim they know an indivual
child best.

And who was it that claimed the following about the Hutterites:

Kane:
"It's the non-violent gentle nature of their parenting with a fine tuned
application of developmentally approriate teaching."


The logic is of course deliberately off track because of course the
spankers have no other reasonable logical support for hitting children,
other than arguing about whether hitting is spanking and similar
illogical tripe.

You meant like:

Doan:
So spanking is now part of a "non-violent gentle nature"???

Kane:
"It was in this instance. It has been in research provided by you in the
past."

Don't you just love the logic of the anti-spanking zealotS! ;-)

Doan

Doan wrote:
On 23 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:


beccafromlalaland wrote:
ah yes the famous dog fight I think that is in the first chapter of "the
strong willed child" isn't it?

As I was reading that, I thought "if he treats his beloved dog in that
fashion, how did he treat his children"


The only "debate" you'll find on this topic here from those willing to
have parents use CP on their children (and sometimes worse) is that
"Parents know their children best," as if the "experts" who do write
and study on such issues of child development and non punitive or non
cp parenting methods are attempting to claim they know an indivual
child best.

And who was it that claimed the following about the Hutterites:

Kane:
"It's the non-violent gentle nature of their parenting with a fine tuned
application of developmentally approriate teaching."


The logic is of course deliberately off track because of course the
spankers have no other reasonable logical support for hitting children,
other than arguing about whether hitting is spanking and similar
illogical tripe.

You meant like:

Doan:
So spanking is now part of a "non-violent gentle nature"???

Kane:
"It was in this instance. It has been in research provided by you in the
past."

Don't you just love the logic of the anti-spanking zealotS! ;-)

Doan

You seem to forget I posted the correction. How is it you are such a
hypocrit?

And how is it rather than answer the issue posted you dodged again?

So why aren't you defending Dr. Dobson?

Isn't he one of those parents that chose to spank, as you advocate for
choice?

Or should he not get a choice for some reason?

Would this represent a change in your self titled advocacy for people
making their own choices, or are you a hypocrite and instead of
admitting the man is a thug, you'll now hide from my question?

0:-

On 23 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan wrote:
On 23 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:


beccafromlalaland wrote:
ah yes the famous dog fight I think that is in the first chapter of "the
strong willed child" isn't it?

As I was reading that, I thought "if he treats his beloved dog in that
fashion, how did he treat his children"


The only "debate" you'll find on this topic here from those willing to
have parents use CP on their children (and sometimes worse) is that
"Parents know their children best," as if the "experts" who do write
and study on such issues of child development and non punitive or non
cp parenting methods are attempting to claim they know an indivual
child best.

And who was it that claimed the following about the Hutterites:

Kane:
"It's the non-violent gentle nature of their parenting with a fine tuned
application of developmentally approriate teaching."


The logic is of course deliberately off track because of course the
spankers have no other reasonable logical support for hitting children,
other than arguing about whether hitting is spanking and similar
illogical tripe.

You meant like:

Doan:
So spanking is now part of a "non-violent gentle nature"???

Kane:
"It was in this instance. It has been in research provided by you in the
past."

Don't you just love the logic of the anti-spanking zealotS! ;-)

Doan

You seem to forget I posted the correction. How is it you are such a
hypocrit?

What correction?

And how is it rather than answer the issue posted you dodged again?

So why aren't you defending Dr. Dobson?

Why should I? I am not the one that said that you should believe the
"experts". YOU ARE! Why aren't you defending the parents?

Isn't he one of those parents that chose to spank, as you advocate for
choice?

I said the parents should have a choice. Aren't you the one that said
they should not?

Or should he not get a choice for some reason?

Who?

Would this represent a change in your self titled advocacy for people
making their own choices, or are you a hypocrite and instead of
admitting the man is a thug, you'll now hide from my question?

He is the "expert"! Are you claiming to be an "expert" too, Professor
Kane0? Where did you teach? ;-)

Doan

Doan wrote:
On 23 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan wrote:
On 23 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:


beccafromlalaland wrote:
ah yes the famous dog fight I think that is in the first chapter of "the
strong willed child" isn't it?

As I was reading that, I thought "if he treats his beloved dog in that
fashion, how did he treat his children"


The only "debate" you'll find on this topic here from those willing to
have parents use CP on their children (and sometimes worse) is that
"Parents know their children best," as if the "experts" who do write
and study on such issues of child development and non punitive or non
cp parenting methods are attempting to claim they know an indivual
child best.

And who was it that claimed the following about the Hutterites:

Kane:
"It's the non-violent gentle nature of their parenting with a fine tuned
application of developmentally approriate teaching."


The logic is of course deliberately off track because of course the
spankers have no other reasonable logical support for hitting children,
other than arguing about whether hitting is spanking and similar
illogical tripe.

You meant like:

Doan:
So spanking is now part of a "non-violent gentle nature"???

Kane:
"It was in this instance. It has been in research provided by you in the
past."

Don't you just love the logic of the anti-spanking zealotS! ;-)

Doan

You seem to forget I posted the correction. How is it you are such a
hypocrit?

What correction?

Tell you what. I'll start jumping to your commands when you start
apologizing when I prove you wrong. Deal?

Let's see if you are man enough to apologize.

We could start something new here.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...9dca63aa3a0101

From my post to Michael with your comments fully attributed:
'
"But, on to the question of the "Hutterites" and corporal punishment of
children.

http://www.peacefulsocieties.org/Society/Hutter.html

Well, it doesn't say they do spank, nor that they don't spank.

My bet...they do.

I have no problem with being corrected.

On the other hand, do you think spanking is how they managed to be a
society that thrives?

Why do you and the monkeyboy so cowardly avoid accepting when you are
wrong?

I suppose the answer is in my admittedly rhetorical question.

You are cowards.

Kane 0:-
'
Notice my words, "Well, it doesn't say they do spank, nor that they
don't spank.

My bet...they do.

I have no problem with being corrected.
"

In my next posting in the thread on your accusation I posted the
following: "Well, let me help you explain. The dancing screeching
monkeyboy could
not read what I said (which included that Hutterites likely DO
spank...it's just a low priority for them in child rearing...and most
certainly NOT why they "thrive.")

In the same post I said this:
"I''ve even posted an e-mail to the Hutterite community asking if
they'd
mind filling me in on their practices concerning child discipline.

I'll share their answer if it does not breach confidentiality. But I
certainly won't mangle it or claim they said something they didn't to
try and "win" a debating contest as this silly ass has made a practice
of for many years now. "

Which I followed up on later in the same thread with the Hutterite
reply that plainly said they DO spank.

Would that not be a "correction" of my original mistake in saying I
thought they might not spank?

You cherry picked my words, singling out those that would fit with the
lying accusation you wished to make. You are without honor, no Face,
boy.

Here from my own post...the reply from the Hutterite PR person I
exchanged e-mails with:

"Hi,
Hutterites believe in addressing the issues and setting boundaries. We
do
not have a problem with using the strap when appropriate. We do
however
stress that it's the misbehaviour that's the problem and not the child.
As
such parents will use "corporal punishishment" in some cases.
Good day
Mark"
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...926fc598d75351
Dated 15 Jan 2006 13:50:07 -0800.

And you read it, Doan. Because you replied in the very next ng posting
with your usual diatribe. I had posted a correction and you continued
to try and turn it into an error. Your usual lying bull****.

And how is it rather than answer the issue posted you dodged again?

So why aren't you defending Dr. Dobson?

Why should I? I am not the one that said that you should believe the
"experts". YOU ARE! Why aren't you defending the parents?

You have used Dobson as a counter to other experts, Doan. You are lying
again.

You want to cruise through these posts before tendering the second
apology to me that you owe?

See your message here...
Dr. Dobson again.
.... Directly. http://tinyurl.com/clyoh Remember spankers, this guy
claims he's "spanking."
"god obedience school: will the senate 'dare to discipline' dobson? ...

alt.parenting.spanking - Jan 23, 9:19 am by Doan - 8 messages - 3
authors

Funny....Dobson guest on L.King 1x a year.
Strange, if Dobson is indeed *lunatic fringe* that Larry King Live
features
him as a guest at least 1x a year. Oh geez, here we ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Jan 15 2003, 6:10 pm by Doan - 5 messages - 5
authors

Kane0 chokes yet again.
.... No honor. A liar and a cheat. Age: 14 months of age. Even the evil
Dobson
wouldn't recommend spanking children this young! No, but he comes very
close. ...
alt.parenting.spanking - May 14 2004, 8:21 pm by Doan - 4 messages - 2
authors

A book review.
I've also found this: Reviewer: Matthew Dodd (The Pentagon, USA) - See
all my reviews
I highly recommend this revision of Dobson's 1971 classic, "Dare to ...

alt.parenting.spanking - Feb 26 2005, 10:06 am by Doan - 9 messages - 3
authors

Doan on neutrality and logic. The Middle Years to Present
a123sdg321 http://tinyurl.com/z6yt Note that he touts James Dobson as
an expert
in parenting practices because he has a PHd in child development. ...
alt.parenting.solutions - Dec 19 2003, 10:24 am by Doan - 16 messages -
2 authors

A short assignment
.... I said nothing about you! Really? Have you read Dobson? ;-) Dobson
.... Did Dobson
recommend CP in all cases? Can you tell me who does? No ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Sep 13 2003, 7:48 pm by Doan - 40 messages - 7
authors

Ugly Sounds of an Actual Spanking
.... Is it "normative" in your own life? The mother in the soundfile is
following
the advice of parenting authors such as James Dobson to a tee. ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Nov 24 2003, 2:57 pm by Doan - 19 messages - 5
authors

How Children REALLY React To Control
.... is applicable to you and what is not. Hey, even Dobson recommended
Thomas
Gordon. :-) Doan How Children Really React to Control ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Jun 8 2004, 12:38 am by Doan - 971 messages -
31 authors

Responding to Arguments Against Corporal Punishment
.... to parent. What parents really want is, How did you become an
expert on
"what parents really want?" You James Dobson are yah? if ...
misc.kids - Jan 12, 11:35 am by Doan - 147 messages - 20 authors

See your message here...
One More Nail in Spanking's Ugly Coffin
.... Experts??? You mean like Dr. Dobson? ;-) Doan has stated he knows
where
the line is between the two. You are being stupid again! ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Jun 6 2004, 8:33 pm by Doan - 30 messages - 8
authors

New Study Slams Spanking
.... Also note that no one here is recommending spanking for children
under two years
of age! Baloney. The great "Dr. Dobson" has been touted on the ng for
years. ...
alt.parenting.spanking - May 7 2004, 11:55 am by Doan - 30 messages - 5
authors

"No fear" a police off. perspective on punishment
.... He appears to be a Dobson on steroids...more cruel, more dangerous
(he recommends
doing things that can cause permanent damange to the recipient), and
more ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Apr 2 2004, 10:12 pm by Doan - 22 messages - 6
authors

Greasy-haired blond killers
Does LaVonne have a PhD? Some professors don't. She does. So does
Dobson! ;-) Doan
alt.parenting.spanking - Oct 21 2003, 9:24 am by Doan - 14 messages - 6
authors

Excuse Me???? Researchers admit spanking behavior not ...
.... parent. Really? So we are to believe Dobson, who has a Ph.D. in
Child
Development and had written many books on the subject??? Or ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Jul 9 2003, 9:33 pm by Doan - 10 messages - 6
authors

Spanking is Wrong; So Is the Study That Says So
.... Actually, I am just having fun at your expense. ;-) You are the one
that also demanded
to see a Ph.D. When I told you that Dr. Dobson has a Ph. ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 12 2002, 7:35 pm by Doan - 122 messages -
11 authors

SPANKING IS NOT HARMFUL
.... Perhaps then your assertions about what constitutes a "wrong
premise" would be more
credible. Dobson has a PH.D. Should I close my eyes and take his words?
....
alt.parenting.spanking - Nov 27 2002, 4:25 pm by Doan - 38 messages - 8
authors

A great article on spanking
.... A few prominent researchers dug in their heels, and James Dobson
was the lone
professional who stood firm with his book Dare to Discipline. ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Feb 28 2004, 3:23 am by Doan - 8 messages - 5
authors

| | Kids should work...
.... When I see you mount arguments as vociferously against Dobson,
Lazelere, Baumrind
and other apologists and supporters of spanking, including those people
that ...
alt.support.foster-parents - Dec 8 2003, 3:53 pm by Doan - 13 messages
- 3 authors


Isn't he one of those parents that chose to spank, as you advocate for
choice?

I said the parents should have a choice. Aren't you the one that said
they should not?

Nope. I have never said that. In fact for years I advocated for no anti
spanking LAW and a voluntary change over to gentle parenting methods.
You know that. That would hardly be consistent with No Choice, now
would it?

I now advocate for the law, but know that parents will still have a
choice. 0:- It's just going to be more painful for both if they chose
spanking, the child and the parent. It's about time.

Or should he not get a choice for some reason?

Who?

Dobson. Can't you follow? Is this too complex for you?

I said, "
So why aren't you defending Dr. Dobson?"

Then
"
Or should he not get a choice for some reason?
"

And they were not separated by all this prose when you asked, "who?"

Would this represent a change in your self titled advocacy for people
making their own choices, or are you a hypocrite and instead of
admitting the man is a thug, you'll now hide from my question?

He is the "expert"! Are you claiming to be an "expert" too, Professor
Kane0? Where did you teach? ;-)

Yes, I am an expert. I am a parent. And I my coursework was in this
field. My professional life consisted of a great deal of involvment
with parenting, and I own my own company (retired now) that included
parent training for both ordinary families and families that were
having serious behavioral problems with their children.

I worked for many years in treatment with juviniles and latency age
children in mental health treatment facilities. People here, like
yourself, have been told these things before.

And no, I'm not giving thugs like you my former employers address. You
will, if you decide you are finally cornered for good, likely break
down and start attacking me by contacting them and lying as you do
here. It's been done before.

Fortunately I have an excellent professional reputation. I simply don't
make a big thing out of my credentials in places such as this. Too many
liars...you among them...too many mentally challenged folks that are
probably in need of meds stabilization. You might be one yourself.

Your flights of fancy appear near delusional at times, like challenging
me, after a lengthy thread where I repeatedly corrected my original
statement about Hutterites, as though I had not.

You can't seem to remember from a week ago what's posted. You continue
and argument as though your opponent had not answered already, when
they have.

You have harrassed good people, who care about children, professionals
some of them that work hard in children's best interests. That's why I
call you a thug.

You simply are one.

And you seem quite delusional.

A new poster asks you a simple question and once again, just as in the
past, if they are NOT a spanking advocate, of on your little sly
dodging and innuendo.

becca will learn, just as the others did, what a foul little **** you
are.

You lie, you compound your lies by lying more. And your talent for
dodging is only second to a weasel.

That is why I invite people to read your posting history. Few do,
presuming that we are just having personal feud.

Those that do, get it very quickly who fouly manipulative you are of
the truth.

You come here to play at your sick games, and in so doing, create more
belief by parents that spanking is okay, when it is patently NOT so.

You owe many an apology, but I'm sure all here would be satified if you
apologized for children to the pain you promote for them.

I would be, you liar.


Doan

Your whole family would be ashamed of you if they knew. All the Doan's.


Kane

On 23 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan wrote:
On 23 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan wrote:
On 23 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:


beccafromlalaland wrote:
ah yes the famous dog fight I think that is in the first chapter of "the
strong willed child" isn't it?

As I was reading that, I thought "if he treats his beloved dog in that
fashion, how did he treat his children"


The only "debate" you'll find on this topic here from those willing to
have parents use CP on their children (and sometimes worse) is that
"Parents know their children best," as if the "experts" who do write
and study on such issues of child development and non punitive or non
cp parenting methods are attempting to claim they know an indivual
child best.

And who was it that claimed the following about the Hutterites:

Kane:
"It's the non-violent gentle nature of their parenting with a fine tuned
application of developmentally approriate teaching."


The logic is of course deliberately off track because of course the
spankers have no other reasonable logical support for hitting children,
other than arguing about whether hitting is spanking and similar
illogical tripe.

You meant like:

Doan:
So spanking is now part of a "non-violent gentle nature"???

Kane:
"It was in this instance. It has been in research provided by you in the
past."

Don't you just love the logic of the anti-spanking zealotS! ;-)

Doan

You seem to forget I posted the correction. How is it you are such a
hypocrit?

What correction?

Tell you what. I'll start jumping to your commands when you start
apologizing when I prove you wrong. Deal?

Let's see if you are man enough to apologize.

We could start something new here.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...9dca63aa3a0101

From my post to Michael with your comments fully attributed:
'
"But, on to the question of the "Hutterites" and corporal punishment of
children.

http://www.peacefulsocieties.org/Society/Hutter.html

Well, it doesn't say they do spank, nor that they don't spank.

My bet...they do.

I have no problem with being corrected.

On the other hand, do you think spanking is how they managed to be a
society that thrives?

Why do you and the monkeyboy so cowardly avoid accepting when you are
wrong?

I suppose the answer is in my admittedly rhetorical question.

You are cowards.

Kane 0:-
'
Notice my words, "Well, it doesn't say they do spank, nor that they
don't spank.

The question is not whether they spank or don't spank, but your claim that
they do it rarely and that it's part of their "non-violent gentle nature"!


My bet...they do.

I have no problem with being corrected.
"

In my next posting in the thread on your accusation I posted the
following: "Well, let me help you explain. The dancing screeching
monkeyboy could
not read what I said (which included that Hutterites likely DO
spank...it's just a low priority for them in child rearing...and most
certainly NOT why they "thrive.")

In the same post I said this:
"I''ve even posted an e-mail to the Hutterite community asking if
they'd
mind filling me in on their practices concerning child discipline.

I'll share their answer if it does not breach confidentiality. But I
certainly won't mangle it or claim they said something they didn't to
try and "win" a debating contest as this silly ass has made a practice
of for many years now. "

Which I followed up on later in the same thread with the Hutterite
reply that plainly said they DO spank.

Would that not be a "correction" of my original mistake in saying I
thought they might not spank?

You cherry picked my words, singling out those that would fit with the
lying accusation you wished to make. You are without honor, no Face,
boy.

Here from my own post...the reply from the Hutterite PR person I
exchanged e-mails with:

"Hi,
Hutterites believe in addressing the issues and setting boundaries. We
do
not have a problem with using the strap when appropriate. We do
however
stress that it's the misbehaviour that's the problem and not the child.
As
such parents will use "corporal punishishment" in some cases.
Good day
Mark"
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...926fc598d75351
Dated 15 Jan 2006 13:50:07 -0800.

And you read it, Doan. Because you replied in the very next ng posting
with your usual diatribe. I had posted a correction and you continued
to try and turn it into an error. Your usual lying bull****.

What correction? You said you never claim that they spank! Why do you
need a correction? A correction of what you NEVER claimed???
Logic and the anti-spanking zealotS....are they mutually exclusive?

And how is it rather than answer the issue posted you dodged again?

So why aren't you defending Dr. Dobson?

Why should I? I am not the one that said that you should believe the
"experts". YOU ARE! Why aren't you defending the parents?

You have used Dobson as a counter to other experts, Doan. You are lying
again.

No. I don't believe in "experts". I believe the parents are the expert
pertaining to their own kids.

You want to cruise through these posts before tendering the second
apology to me that you owe?

LOL! What I've quotes are verifiable facts. Just the facts mam! ;-)
I think you owe me an apology here.

See your message here...
Dr. Dobson again.
... Directly. http://tinyurl.com/clyoh Remember spankers, this guy
claims he's "spanking."
"god obedience school: will the senate 'dare to discipline' dobson? ...

alt.parenting.spanking - Jan 23, 9:19 am by Doan - 8 messages - 3
authors

Funny....Dobson guest on L.King 1x a year.
Strange, if Dobson is indeed *lunatic fringe* that Larry King Live
features
him as a guest at least 1x a year. Oh geez, here we ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Jan 15 2003, 6:10 pm by Doan - 5 messages - 5
authors

Kane0 chokes yet again.
... No honor. A liar and a cheat. Age: 14 months of age. Even the evil
Dobson
wouldn't recommend spanking children this young! No, but he comes very
close. ...
alt.parenting.spanking - May 14 2004, 8:21 pm by Doan - 4 messages - 2
authors

A book review.
I've also found this: Reviewer: Matthew Dodd (The Pentagon, USA) - See
all my reviews
I highly recommend this revision of Dobson's 1971 classic, "Dare to ...

alt.parenting.spanking - Feb 26 2005, 10:06 am by Doan - 9 messages - 3
authors

Doan on neutrality and logic. The Middle Years to Present
a123sdg321 http://tinyurl.com/z6yt Note that he touts James Dobson as
an expert
in parenting practices because he has a PHd in child development. ...
alt.parenting.solutions - Dec 19 2003, 10:24 am by Doan - 16 messages -
2 authors

A short assignment
... I said nothing about you! Really? Have you read Dobson? ;-) Dobson
... Did Dobson
recommend CP in all cases? Can you tell me who does? No ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Sep 13 2003, 7:48 pm by Doan - 40 messages - 7
authors

Ugly Sounds of an Actual Spanking
... Is it "normative" in your own life? The mother in the soundfile is
following
the advice of parenting authors such as James Dobson to a tee. ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Nov 24 2003, 2:57 pm by Doan - 19 messages - 5
authors

How Children REALLY React To Control
... is applicable to you and what is not. Hey, even Dobson recommended
Thomas
Gordon. :-) Doan How Children Really React to Control ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Jun 8 2004, 12:38 am by Doan - 971 messages -
31 authors

Responding to Arguments Against Corporal Punishment
... to parent. What parents really want is, How did you become an
expert on
"what parents really want?" You James Dobson are yah? if ...
misc.kids - Jan 12, 11:35 am by Doan - 147 messages - 20 authors

See your message here...
One More Nail in Spanking's Ugly Coffin
... Experts??? You mean like Dr. Dobson? ;-) Doan has stated he knows
where
the line is between the two. You are being stupid again! ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Jun 6 2004, 8:33 pm by Doan - 30 messages - 8
authors

New Study Slams Spanking
... Also note that no one here is recommending spanking for children
under two years
of age! Baloney. The great "Dr. Dobson" has been touted on the ng for
years. ...
alt.parenting.spanking - May 7 2004, 11:55 am by Doan - 30 messages - 5
authors

"No fear" a police off. perspective on punishment
... He appears to be a Dobson on steroids...more cruel, more dangerous
(he recommends
doing things that can cause permanent damange to the recipient), and
more ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Apr 2 2004, 10:12 pm by Doan - 22 messages - 6
authors

Greasy-haired blond killers
Does LaVonne have a PhD? Some professors don't. She does. So does
Dobson! ;-) Doan
alt.parenting.spanking - Oct 21 2003, 9:24 am by Doan - 14 messages - 6
authors

Excuse Me???? Researchers admit spanking behavior not ...
... parent. Really? So we are to believe Dobson, who has a Ph.D. in
Child
Development and had written many books on the subject??? Or ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Jul 9 2003, 9:33 pm by Doan - 10 messages - 6
authors

Spanking is Wrong; So Is the Study That Says So
... Actually, I am just having fun at your expense. ;-) You are the one
that also demanded
to see a Ph.D. When I told you that Dr. Dobson has a Ph. ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 12 2002, 7:35 pm by Doan - 122 messages -
11 authors

SPANKING IS NOT HARMFUL
... Perhaps then your assertions about what constitutes a "wrong
premise" would be more
credible. Dobson has a PH.D. Should I close my eyes and take his words?
...
alt.parenting.spanking - Nov 27 2002, 4:25 pm by Doan - 38 messages - 8
authors

A great article on spanking
... A few prominent researchers dug in their heels, and James Dobson
was the lone
professional who stood firm with his book Dare to Discipline. ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Feb 28 2004, 3:23 am by Doan - 8 messages - 5
authors

| | Kids should work...
... When I see you mount arguments as vociferously against Dobson,
Lazelere, Baumrind
and other apologists and supporters of spanking, including those people
that ...
alt.support.foster-parents - Dec 8 2003, 3:53 pm by Doan - 13 messages
- 3 authors


Isn't he one of those parents that chose to spank, as you advocate for
choice?

I said the parents should have a choice. Aren't you the one that said
they should not?

Nope. I have never said that. In fact for years I advocated for no anti
spanking LAW and a voluntary change over to gentle parenting methods.
You know that. That would hardly be consistent with No Choice, now
would it?

I now advocate for the law, but know that parents will still have a
choice. 0:- It's just going to be more painful for both if they chose
spanking, the child and the parent. It's about time.

Or should he not get a choice for some reason?

Who?

Dobson. Can't you follow? Is this too complex for you?

I said, "
So why aren't you defending Dr. Dobson?"

Then
"
Or should he not get a choice for some reason?
"

And they were not separated by all this prose when you asked, "who?"

Would this represent a change in your self titled advocacy for people
making their own choices, or are you a hypocrite and instead of
admitting the man is a thug, you'll now hide from my question?

He is the "expert"! Are you claiming to be an "expert" too, Professor
Kane0? Where did you teach? ;-)

Here comes the dodge! ;-)

Yes, I am an expert. I am a parent. And I my coursework was in this
field. My professional life consisted of a great deal of involvment
with parenting, and I own my own company (retired now) that included
parent training for both ordinary families and families that were
having serious behavioral problems with their children.

I worked for many years in treatment with juviniles and latency age
children in mental health treatment facilities. People here, like
yourself, have been told these things before.

And how do I know that you are telling the truth?

And no, I'm not giving thugs like you my former employers address. You
will, if you decide you are finally cornered for good, likely break
down and start attacking me by contacting them and lying as you do
here. It's been done before.

I have???

Fortunately I have an excellent professional reputation. I simply don't
make a big thing out of my credentials in places such as this. Too many
liars...you among them...too many mentally challenged folks that are
probably in need of meds stabilization. You might be one yourself.

Now you call me a liar! How typical! ;-)

Your flights of fancy appear near delusional at times, like challenging
me, after a lengthy thread where I repeatedly corrected my original
statement about Hutterites, as though I had not.

Correct what? What is your "original" claim? What is it that you
corrected to? You are not making any sense!

You can't seem to remember from a week ago what's posted. You continue
and argument as though your opponent had not answered already, when
they have.

No you haven't. What is it that you "corrected"?

You have harrassed good people, who care about children, professionals
some of them that work hard in children's best interests. That's why I
call you a thug.

You are lying! That's is why I call you Ignoranus Kane0! ;-)

You simply are one.

And you are STUPID!

And you seem quite delusional.

And you are rude!

A new poster asks you a simple question and once again, just as in the
past, if they are NOT a spanking advocate, of on your little sly
dodging and innuendo.

becca will learn, just as the others did, what a foul little **** you
are.

Or she will learn how STUPID and OBNOXIUS you are! ;-)

You lie, you compound your lies by lying more. And your talent for
dodging is only second to a weasel.

And you areSTUPID and OBNOXIUS "never-spanked" boy! ;-)

That is why I invite people to read your posting history. Few do,
presuming that we are just having personal feud.

What? You can't convince them?

Those that do, get it very quickly who fouly manipulative you are of
the truth.

You are delusional!

You come here to play at your sick games, and in so doing, create more
belief by parents that spanking is okay, when it is patently NOT so.

You meant I can convince them while you can't??? ;-)

You owe many an apology, but I'm sure all here would be satified if you
apologized for children to the pain you promote for them.

LOL!

I would be, you liar.

You are STUPID! ;-)


Doan

Your whole family would be ashamed of you if they knew. All the Doan's.


LOL! And you mom is proud of you!

Doan