sleep and supply? (bit long. sorry)

Hi

My DD is now 4 and a half weeks. When she was first born I expresed a
lot as well as breastfeeding, as she just didn't seem to get enough by
breastfeeding, and I became concerned about her as her urine was
becoming quite concentrated - fortunately nipple confusion was never an
issue.

I did this for 10 days or so, but when we were first both learning to
breastfeed, I was doing it in an awkward postition, and hurt my back and
neck, and so I gave her the odd bottle of formula as I couldn't stand to
bend forward or sit in one position for any period of time (the manual
pump that I bought from Mothercare was useless, and with DH being made
redundant when DD was 6days old, I've been reluctant to spend out on any
others, so I hand express).

We're now sorted with comfortable positions etc, and DD is a fab feeder,
however, my supply seems a bit dodgy. She sleeps from midnight to six,
but when I wake up, no matter what I do the night before, I am drenched
in breastmilk... because I leak so much, I am full, but I am not
engorged in the morning. I have tried expressing in the night, but this
doesnt seem to help.

DD has a monster feed at 6 am, draining me. She then feeds again at 9am,
midday and 4pm. Each of these are good long feeds, and she seems
satisfied, although I have less and less milk at each feed, and don't
seem to produce a lot between feeds. However, by her 8pm feed, I have
hardly any milk, and often have to supplement to get her to settle for
bed. The same often happens at midnight, although I do start the feed by
breastfeeding in the hope that it will increase my supply...

My question is, since I seem to nearly drown myself overnight, would
taking a sleep during the day give me a boost? Now that my back and neck
feel so much better, and we both know where we're at with feeding,
despite a rocky start, I really want to exclusively breastfeed, I just
can't seem to manage the last two feeds, and I am fed up with washing my
bedding daily!

Thank you - sorry for the long ramble!

Lucy

lucy-lu wrote:
DD has a monster feed at 6 am, draining me. She then feeds again at 9am,
midday and 4pm. Each of these are good long feeds, and she seems
satisfied, although I have less and less milk at each feed, and don't
seem to produce a lot between feeds. However, by her 8pm feed, I have
hardly any milk, and often have to supplement to get her to settle for
bed. The same often happens at midnight, although I do start the feed by
breastfeeding in the hope that it will increase my supply...

My question is, since I seem to nearly drown myself overnight, would
taking a sleep during the day give me a boost? Now that my back and neck
feel so much better, and we both know where we're at with feeding,
despite a rocky start, I really want to exclusively breastfeed, I just
can't seem to manage the last two feeds, and I am fed up with washing my
bedding daily!

Well done sticking with the breastfeeding!. Glad things are working
out. Supply is usually lowest in the late afternoon and evening, and
usually best in the early morning. The best way to build supply is
to nurse. If you supplement in the evening, you are telling your body
you don't need milk then and thus, your body will make less. What
I would suggest, is to try to cut back on that supplementing and
just nurse. It's going to be rough, with alot of non stop nursing, but
your supply will catch up in a couple of days. You may want to
gradually cut back on the supplementing (over the course of a
week or two, with the goal being no more bottles). Things that
can help your afternoon supply include making sure you are
drinking plenty and eating enough. A nap in the afternoon may
help if you can manage. I used to drink a big cup of mother's
milk tea by Traditional Medicines (I think) in the early afternoon
and that helped my supply quite a bit. Straight fennel tea might
help too. Oatmeal and fenugreek also boost supply, although
I don't know the time course of that.

The leaking at night should settle down soon, although I leaked
with my first until she was about 10 months old. I just slept
on a couple of towels and used a cloth diaper. With my second
I found these great, stretchy bra type things that were perfect
for holding breast pads and slept in those with a breast pads.
I leaked alot less with her, though.

best of luck,

Mary W.

Hi Lucy!

I haven't posted here in a while, but I breastfed my first until he was 13
months (he is 19 months now).

Everything Mary said was great. A 3 hour schedule is fairly typical for a
baby, but be aware that they go through growth spurts at 7-10 days, 2-3
weeks, 4-6 weeks, 3 months, 4 months, 6 months and 9 months (more or less).
If she seems to want to nurse more, please, please, let her. It is
essential for your milk supply to keep up with her demand.

It sounds like your DD is on a steady schedule now, which is why your body
isn't producing milk in between feedings. Again, if she wants an extra
snack, let her nurse even if you feel like nothing is coming out. The
stimulation will encourage your body to produce more milk.

The afternoon feedings seem to be spaced out 4 hours apart. Is this your
schedule or hers? That may be another reason why you have less milk in the
evening. I don't really subscribe to attached parenting (nor do I condemn
it), but it really is necessary to exclusive breastfeeding to let ones as
young as yours nurse on demand. (Do I sound like a broken record, yet?)
Mary's idea of gradually cutting back on supplemental bottles is excellent
advice.

Leaking - I wore breast 24/7 for the first 8 months, even though I started
DS on solids at 6 months. Even after I started going without, there were
the occasional letdowns (and leaks) from a delayed nursing or someone else's
crying baby. The AMC my husband takes me to had the sound of a baby crying
at the beginning of their "please be courteous and quite" ad before the
movie started - I still hate it to this day. My mom had the same problem
with leaking, only she didn't have breast pads. A towel was her solution,
too.

Keep working at it Lucy, you are doing great.

Lynn



"Mary W." wrote in message
oups.com...
lucy-lu wrote:
DD has a monster feed at 6 am, draining me. She then feeds again at 9am,
midday and 4pm. Each of these are good long feeds, and she seems
satisfied, although I have less and less milk at each feed, and don't
seem to produce a lot between feeds. However, by her 8pm feed, I have
hardly any milk, and often have to supplement to get her to settle for
bed. The same often happens at midnight, although I do start the feed by
breastfeeding in the hope that it will increase my supply...

My question is, since I seem to nearly drown myself overnight, would
taking a sleep during the day give me a boost? Now that my back and neck
feel so much better, and we both know where we're at with feeding,
despite a rocky start, I really want to exclusively breastfeed, I just
can't seem to manage the last two feeds, and I am fed up with washing my
bedding daily!

Well done sticking with the breastfeeding!. Glad things are working
out. Supply is usually lowest in the late afternoon and evening, and
usually best in the early morning. The best way to build supply is
to nurse. If you supplement in the evening, you are telling your body
you don't need milk then and thus, your body will make less. What
I would suggest, is to try to cut back on that supplementing and
just nurse. It's going to be rough, with alot of non stop nursing, but
your supply will catch up in a couple of days. You may want to
gradually cut back on the supplementing (over the course of a
week or two, with the goal being no more bottles). Things that
can help your afternoon supply include making sure you are
drinking plenty and eating enough. A nap in the afternoon may
help if you can manage. I used to drink a big cup of mother's
milk tea by Traditional Medicines (I think) in the early afternoon
and that helped my supply quite a bit. Straight fennel tea might
help too. Oatmeal and fenugreek also boost supply, although
I don't know the time course of that.

The leaking at night should settle down soon, although I leaked
with my first until she was about 10 months old. I just slept
on a couple of towels and used a cloth diaper. With my second
I found these great, stretchy bra type things that were perfect
for holding breast pads and slept in those with a breast pads.
I leaked alot less with her, though.

best of luck,

Mary W.

DD has a monster feed at 6 am, draining me. She then feeds again at 9am,
midday and 4pm. Each of these are good long feeds, and she seems
satisfied, although I have less and less milk at each feed, and don't seem
to produce a lot between feeds. However, by her 8pm feed, I have hardly
any milk, and often have to supplement to get her to settle for bed. The
same often happens at midnight, although I do start the feed by
breastfeeding in the hope that it will increase my supply...

have you tried switch nursing? i.e. when she is disatisfied with one side,
give her another, then back to the first and so on, it can mean the feed
takes ages and ages, I was just the same with my first, feeding at that time
of day could be 2-3hrs before he settled.

My question is, since I seem to nearly drown myself overnight, would
taking a sleep during the day give me a boost? Now that my back and neck
feel so much better, and we both know where we're at with feeding, despite
a rocky start, I really want to exclusively breastfeed, I just can't seem
to manage the last two feeds, and I am fed up with washing my bedding
daily!

I think keeping well rested is important so if you are well rested by having
a sleep during the day then I'm sure that would help. You could also try
eating oats, most people recommend it as porridge (oatmeal for Americans),
but cookies of flapjacks should have the same effect. Make sure you are
drinking enough water too.

Anne

lucy-lu writes:

First, before I answer your question, this is a common distribution of
supply during the day. If you can find a way to deal with it without
supplementing at night, it will be better. Hopefully, I will have a
few useful ideas. :-)

: My question is, since I seem to nearly drown myself overnight, would
: taking a sleep during the day give me a boost?

In a word: YES! :-) But this is not all you can do... I don't know
what else you are doing to increase your supply, but you can try the
following. Eat oatmeal for breakfast. Oatmeal is generally a fair
galactogogue, and could help. Next, you say the problems usually start
with the 8 PM feeding. I would suggest making a quart of fennel seed
tea (steep 1 heaping tbsp fennel seeds for 10-15 minutes), to start
drinking it at about 5 PM, with the object of finishing the quart by
the time you go to sleep. It is also a mild galactogue, and will also
help to settly your daughter if she has gas.

: feel so much better, and we both know where we're at with feeding,
: despite a rocky start, I really want to exclusively breastfeed, I just
: can't seem to manage the last two feeds, and I am fed up with washing my
: bedding daily!

Finally, you could hope she starts waking at about 4 AM for a good feed,
this would not only solve your leaking problem (some) but would also help
your long term supply, as this is the best time to remove milk to
increase supply. BTW: You can also sleep on a twice folded towel. And
this should settle down by 3 or 4 months.

: Thank you - sorry for the long ramble!

: Lucy

Good luck,
Larry

Hi Lucy,
You're doing a great job keeping going with the breastfeeding despite
the pain and difficulties you've had. Others have given you some great
suggestions, I'll try to add a few too.

but when I wake up, no matter what I do the night before, I am drenched
in breastmilk... because I leak so much

One of the ways I have dealt with the night leaking is to fold a thick
diaper or hand towel in quarters, or thicker and hold it in place with
a T shirt. In the early days, I went through 3 per night. If you are
wearing a nursing bra at night for the support, you can leave the flaps
open to use the folded towel. I also put a soft waterproof pad over
the parts of the sheets where I needed it, so I didn't have to change
the wet sheets every day.

DD has a monster feed at 6 am, draining me. She then feeds again at 9am,
midday and 4pm. Each of these are good long feeds, and she seems
satisfied, although I have less and less milk at each feed, and don't
seem to produce a lot between feeds. However, by her 8pm feed, I have
hardly any milk, and often have to supplement to get her to settle for
bed. The same often happens at midnight, although I do start the feed by
breastfeeding in the hope that it will increase my supply...

It sounds like she is eating 6 times per day. The average new baby
nurses 8-12 times per day. If she could add a feeding or two in the
afternoon and night, it could help your milk supply. Formula takes
longer to digest than milk. If you supplement with formula in the
evening, she may be sleeping longer than she would othewise and missing
a nighttime feeding or two that she would otherwise take.

Instead of supplementing her at the 8pm feed, you might be able to
spend a couple afternoon/evenings nursing constantly. When she slows
down at one side, squeeze you breast firmly to get a bit more milk into
her. When she slows down again, despite the breast compression, switch
sides. If she doesn't seem to slow down, switch sides every 15
minutes. This will help to fill her up and also send a signal to your
breasts to make more milk in future evenings.


My question is, since I seem to nearly drown myself overnight, would
taking a sleep during the day give me a boost?

I would probably be quite helpful. If you can learn to take a nap
while nursing, it can help even more.

I find that fenugreek starts increasing my milk supply in a matter of
hours. Taking fenugreek or tea with fenugreek first thing in the
morning may help by evening.

--Betsy

--Betsy

Hi all,

Thank you so much for all the ideas and encouragement - I thought I
would leave it a couple of days before posting so that I could give an
update at the same time

We've had a long few days as DD's adjusted to life without bottles - I
hadn't realised that DH had been giving her extra bottles if she was
hungry while I was in the bath etc, so it was a bigger job than I'd
anticipated!

Good news though - we're down to a maximum of half a bottle (3oz) at
bedtime, but mostly this is disappearing too - soon as that goes, we'll
be bottle free! She's now generally nursing at 11pm, 3am (I'm dry at
night now too!!), 7am, and then as she pleases until her bedtime feed at
8pm. Although changing from 4 hour feeds to 3 hours doesn't sound like a
lot, it's been a big adjustment, and of course, I am now doing all the
day and night feeds, whereas I used to share it with DH, so that's been
a bit tough, but I'm getting used to it quickly so that's good. I made
sure we were out all day yesterday, apart from when I came home for a
nap, so the bottles were out of reach

Sleeping in the afternoon definitely seems to be the key for me, but I
am going to try and get some fenugreek and fennel tea today as an extra
boost.

Thanks again all

Lucy - and a stuffed DD )

lucy-lu wrote:
She's now generally nursing at 11pm, 3am (I'm dry at
night now too!!), 7am, and then as she pleases until her bedtime feed at
8pm. Although changing from 4 hour feeds to 3 hours doesn't sound like a
lot

ok, so I realised when changing DD's nappy that that madeno sense I
was more sleepy this morning than I realised! I meant that the switch
from 6 hours at night to 4 hours was hard and that she tends to nurse 3
hourly during the day

Lucy - waking up )

We've had a long few days as DD's adjusted to life without bottles - I
hadn't realised that DH had been giving her extra bottles if she was
hungry while I was in the bath etc, so it was a bigger job than I'd
anticipated!

oh my, no wonder your supply was suffering, I'd been surprised by the 4hr
routine, it happens, but it's not very common, but if she was getting 1
bottle at some point in the day, that would kind of explain it, plus she
probably would then not even take a full feed at another time, cue even less
stimulation.

Good for you Lucy, you'll get rid of that final bottle in no time.

Anne

Anne Rogers wrote:
We've had a long few days as DD's adjusted to life without bottles - I
hadn't realised that DH had been giving her extra bottles if she was
hungry while I was in the bath etc, so it was a bigger job than I'd
anticipated!

oh my, no wonder your supply was suffering, I'd been surprised by the 4hr
routine, it happens, but it's not very common, but if she was getting 1
bottle at some point in the day, that would kind of explain it, plus she
probably would then not even take a full feed at another time, cue even less
stimulation.

Good for you Lucy, you'll get rid of that final bottle in no time.

Anne



Ta Anne, I am sure it's going soon too It's the one that's annoying
me the most

I didn't notice the extra foods she was getting as when she's with me,
she seemed happy with the 4 hourly feeds, and would make the "no more
milk" face ( ) if I tried to get an extra feed in, but she's happy to
munch again now around after about 3 hours.

Lucy