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#1
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Trying to "reason" with a child or spanking?
Like there's only two choices?
This is the argument, above, and in the subject field that spankers and protectors of spankers frequently use to complain about non-CP advocates. Doesn't it make you kind of wonder if the spankers, all spanked themselves, didn't get paddled a little to high up their back? Ever see a parent that themselves were not spanked, but instead parented as below resort to spanking for teaching? Here's an interesting replyto those who posit only two choices: "There are a multitude of parenting strategies for very young children that do not rely on reasoning or spanking. The first is to understand where this little child is developmentally and have appropriate expectations. Then try avoiding the issue if the expectation is developmentally inappropriate. Use redirection, substitution, extinction, meeting child's immediate needs, and a multitude of other parenting strategies. If you want more information, please ask. I've posted this many times on alt.parenting.spanking. Parenting is about teaching. Parenting is about helping children develop internal control and moral reasoning -- it's not about hitting for compliance. And a multitude of studies spanning several decades exist showing that spanking is linked to long and short term risk factors and no studies that show spanking to be preferrable to alternative forms of discipline that do not involve hitting, hurting, shaming, or demeaning a child. Of course, if you have studies that support your position, I'd love to read them. Please post your sources. LaVonne " Oct 21 2003 |
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Trying to "reason" with a child or spanking?
http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/heal...out530773.html
Health Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior MONDAY, Feb. 6 (HealthDay News) -- Parents who set an example that any form of violence -- including spanking -- is unacceptable are more likely to bring up children who don't get into fights or other forms of violence, researchers report. But their study also found that this type of childrearing isn't always the norm in American families. "Almost 40 percent of parents in the study population said they would tell their child it is OK to hit if another person pushes or hits him or her," said lead researcher Dr. Sally-Ann Ohene, formerly of the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis. "This suggests that for a significant number of these parents, advising their child to fight back is [considered] the best way" to deal with violence, she said. According to Ohene, children often heed that advice and do what they think is expected -- fight. On the other hand, parents who do not hit their children and who state categorically that hitting is wrong are sending a clear message that children can also understand and accept, the researchers say. They published their findings in the February issue of the journal Pediatrics. The study is based on a 2003 survey of 134 children 10 to 15 years old and their parents living in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metropolitan area. The parent-child pairs were culled from eight outpatient pediatric practices in urban and suburban areas covering a wide socio-economic range. The researchers found a clear inverse relationship between parental attitudes toward violence and their children's history of fighting: The more accepting the parent was toward violence, the more prone the child was to engage in violent scuffles. Similar results were found for the use of corporal punishment in the home, such as spanking. The results are interesting but predictable, said Daniel W. Webster, associate professor at the Center for the Prevention of Youth Violence, part of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore. "It is very consistent with other research about the cycle of violence," he said. "In homes where there is physical violence between parents, or parent to child, that increases the likelihood that they will have problems with increased violence." Webster stressed, however, that "most children who do experience violence do not go on to violence -- but it certainly increases the risk." It's also important to note that what behaviors parents expect from their child, and what their children believe their parents want, can be two very different things, said Dr. Iris Wagman Borowsky, an assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Minnesota and the senior author of the study. "What a child thinks a parent expects of him is more important than what a parent actually thinks," she said. "We find this is true for violence as well as other risk behaviors," including sexual activity and substance abuse. "It just makes good sense to talk with your child about how you feel about these issues," she said. More information To learn more about risk factors for youth violence, as well as protective factors, go to the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/yvfacts.htm Abstract of the study mentioned in the article: PEDIATRICS Vol. 117 No. 2 February 2006, pp. 441-447 (doi:10.1542/peds.2005-0421) Adolescent Medicine Parental Expectations, Physical Punishment, and Violence Among Adolescents Who Score Positive on a Psychosocial Screening Test in Primary Care OBJECTIVE. We sought to examine the relationship between perceived and stated parental expectations regarding adolescents' use of violence, parental use of physical punishment as discipline, and young adolescents' violence-related attitudes and involvement. METHODS. Surveys were completed by 134 youth and their parents attending 8 pediatric practices. All youth were 10 to 15 years of age and had scored positive on a psychosocial screening test. RESULTS. Multivariate analyses revealed that perceived parental disapproval of the use of violence was associated with a more prosocial attitude toward interpersonal peer violence and a decreased likelihood of physical fighting by the youth. Parental report of whether they would advise their child to use violence in a conflict situation (stated parental expectations) was not associated with the adolescents' attitudes toward interpersonal peer violence, intentions to fight, physical fighting, bullying, or violence victimization. Parental use of corporal punishment as a disciplining method was inversely associated with a prosocial attitude toward interpersonal peer violence among the youth and positively correlated with youths' intentions to fight and fighting, bullying, and violence victimization. CONCLUSIONS. Perceived parental disapproval of the use of violence may be an important protective factor against youth involvement in violence, and parental use of physical punishment is associated with both violence perpetration and victimization among youth. Parents should be encouraged to clearly communicate to their children how to resolve conflicts without resorting to violence and to model these skills themselves by avoiding the use of physical punishment. |
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Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior
http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/heal...6/02/06/hscout... Health Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior MONDAY, Feb. 6 (HealthDay News) -- Parents who set an example that any form of violence -- including spanking -- is unacceptable are more likely to bring up children who don't get into fights or other forms of violence, researchers report. But their study also found that this type of childrearing isn't always the norm in American families. "Almost 40 percent of parents in the study population said they would tell their child it is OK to hit if another person pushes or hits him or her," said lead researcher Dr. Sally-Ann Ohene, formerly of the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis. "This suggests that for a significant number of these parents, advising their child to fight back is [considered] the best way" to deal with violence, she said. According to Ohene, children often heed that advice and do what they think is expected -- fight. On the other hand, parents who do not hit their children and who state categorically that hitting is wrong are sending a clear message that children can also understand and accept, the researchers say. They published their findings in the February issue of the journal Pediatrics. The study is based on a 2003 survey of 134 children 10 to 15 years old and their parents living in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metropolitan area. The parent-child pairs were culled from eight outpatient pediatric practices in urban and suburban areas covering a wide socio-economic range. The researchers found a clear inverse relationship between parental attitudes toward violence and their children's history of fighting: The more accepting the parent was toward violence, the more prone the child was to engage in violent scuffles. Similar results were found for the use of corporal punishment in the home, such as spanking. The results are interesting but predictable, said Daniel W. Webster, associate professor at the Center for the Prevention of Youth Violence, part of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore. "It is very consistent with other research about the cycle of violence," he said. "In homes where there is physical violence between parents, or parent to child, that increases the likelihood that they will have problems with increased violence." Webster stressed, however, that "most children who do experience violence do not go on to violence -- but it certainly increases the risk." It's also important to note that what behaviors parents expect from their child, and what their children believe their parents want, can be two very different things, said Dr. Iris Wagman Borowsky, an assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Minnesota and the senior author of the study. "What a child thinks a parent expects of him is more important than what a parent actually thinks," she said. "We find this is true for violence as well as other risk behaviors," including sexual activity and substance abuse. "It just makes good sense to talk with your child about how you feel about these issues," she said. More information To learn more about risk factors for youth violence, as well as protective factors, go to the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/yvfacts.htm Abstract of the study mentioned in the article: PEDIATRICS Vol. 117 No. 2 February 2006, pp. 441-447 (doi:10.1542/peds.2005-0421) Adolescent Medicine Parental Expectations, Physical Punishment, and Violence Among Adolescents Who Score Positive on a Psychosocial Screening Test in Primary Care OBJECTIVE. We sought to examine the relationship between perceived and stated parental expectations regarding adolescents' use of violence, parental use of physical punishment as discipline, and young adolescents' violence-related attitudes and involvement. METHODS. Surveys were completed by 134 youth and their parents attending 8 pediatric practices. All youth were 10 to 15 years of age and had scored positive on a psychosocial screening test. RESULTS. Multivariate analyses revealed that perceived parental disapproval of the use of violence was associated with a more prosocial attitude toward interpersonal peer violence and a decreased likelihood of physical fighting by the youth. Parental report of whether they would advise their child to use violence in a conflict situation (stated parental expectations) was not associated with the adolescents' attitudes toward interpersonal peer violence, intentions to fight, physical fighting, bullying, or violence victimization. Parental use of corporal punishment as a disciplining method was inversely associated with a prosocial attitude toward interpersonal peer violence among the youth and positively correlated with youths' intentions to fight and fighting, bullying, and violence victimization. CONCLUSIONS. Perceived parental disapproval of the use of violence may be an important protective factor against youth involvement in violence, and parental use of physical punishment is associated with both violence perpetration and victimization among youth. Parents should be encouraged to clearly communicate to their children how to resolve conflicts without resorting to violence and to model these skills themselves by avoiding the use of physical punishment. |
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Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior
"This study has a number of limitations. With no means of external validation, the self-report nature of this study leaves room for reporter bias on the part of both the youth and their parents. The majority of the adult respondents were mothers, which may have influenced the data. The study is cross sectional, and therefore it is not possible to determine either causality or directionality of the variables analyzed. Finally, because the study population was limited to a select group of young people, clinic-attending adolescents who scored positive on the PSC-17 and their parents, the findings cannot be generalized to all adolescents. Additional research to further explore the findings should be longitudinal in nature and should include a larger and more diverse group of adolescents. " Doan On 7 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote: http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/heal...6/02/06/hscout... Health Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior MONDAY, Feb. 6 (HealthDay News) -- Parents who set an example that any form of violence -- including spanking -- is unacceptable are more likely to bring up children who don't get into fights or other forms of violence, researchers report. But their study also found that this type of childrearing isn't always the norm in American families. "Almost 40 percent of parents in the study population said they would tell their child it is OK to hit if another person pushes or hits him or her," said lead researcher Dr. Sally-Ann Ohene, formerly of the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis. "This suggests that for a significant number of these parents, advising their child to fight back is [considered] the best way" to deal with violence, she said. According to Ohene, children often heed that advice and do what they think is expected -- fight. On the other hand, parents who do not hit their children and who state categorically that hitting is wrong are sending a clear message that children can also understand and accept, the researchers say. They published their findings in the February issue of the journal Pediatrics. The study is based on a 2003 survey of 134 children 10 to 15 years old and their parents living in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metropolitan area. The parent-child pairs were culled from eight outpatient pediatric practices in urban and suburban areas covering a wide socio-economic range. The researchers found a clear inverse relationship between parental attitudes toward violence and their children's history of fighting: The more accepting the parent was toward violence, the more prone the child was to engage in violent scuffles. Similar results were found for the use of corporal punishment in the home, such as spanking. The results are interesting but predictable, said Daniel W. Webster, associate professor at the Center for the Prevention of Youth Violence, part of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore. "It is very consistent with other research about the cycle of violence," he said. "In homes where there is physical violence between parents, or parent to child, that increases the likelihood that they will have problems with increased violence." Webster stressed, however, that "most children who do experience violence do not go on to violence -- but it certainly increases the risk." It's also important to note that what behaviors parents expect from their child, and what their children believe their parents want, can be two very different things, said Dr. Iris Wagman Borowsky, an assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Minnesota and the senior author of the study. "What a child thinks a parent expects of him is more important than what a parent actually thinks," she said. "We find this is true for violence as well as other risk behaviors," including sexual activity and substance abuse. "It just makes good sense to talk with your child about how you feel about these issues," she said. More information To learn more about risk factors for youth violence, as well as protective factors, go to the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/yvfacts.htm Abstract of the study mentioned in the article: PEDIATRICS Vol. 117 No. 2 February 2006, pp. 441-447 (doi:10.1542/peds.2005-0421) Adolescent Medicine Parental Expectations, Physical Punishment, and Violence Among Adolescents Who Score Positive on a Psychosocial Screening Test in Primary Care OBJECTIVE. We sought to examine the relationship between perceived and stated parental expectations regarding adolescents' use of violence, parental use of physical punishment as discipline, and young adolescents' violence-related attitudes and involvement. METHODS. Surveys were completed by 134 youth and their parents attending 8 pediatric practices. All youth were 10 to 15 years of age and had scored positive on a psychosocial screening test. RESULTS. Multivariate analyses revealed that perceived parental disapproval of the use of violence was associated with a more prosocial attitude toward interpersonal peer violence and a decreased likelihood of physical fighting by the youth. Parental report of whether they would advise their child to use violence in a conflict situation (stated parental expectations) was not associated with the adolescents' attitudes toward interpersonal peer violence, intentions to fight, physical fighting, bullying, or violence victimization. Parental use of corporal punishment as a disciplining method was inversely associated with a prosocial attitude toward interpersonal peer violence among the youth and positively correlated with youths' intentions to fight and fighting, bullying, and violence victimization. CONCLUSIONS. Perceived parental disapproval of the use of violence may be an important protective factor against youth involvement in violence, and parental use of physical punishment is associated with both violence perpetration and victimization among youth. Parents should be encouraged to clearly communicate to their children how to resolve conflicts without resorting to violence and to model these skills themselves by avoiding the use of physical punishment. |
#5
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Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior
To the reader:
If you have made it a practice to read research reports you know that each and every one, that has any peer credibility, will include a paragraph or two with caveats as to the limitations of the research (no study can explore all the possibilities, realistically) and suggestions for further research by others, or sometimes even plans to expand their own into the areas listed as limitations. Don't let yourself be fooled by harassing posters who think that the normal limitations of all research negate the validity of the one you are viewing. It's just childish harassment, nothing more. No argument offered in rebutal of the study. No other studies offered. In other words, no debate or argument, just harassment. Researchers ignore these, rightly so, but do respond to thoughtful and reasonable criticism, as we have seen in the past in this ng, from citation. My advice if you wish to really get into this issue without losing your way? Ignore those that harass and "debate" on fine points of what some poster might have or might not have meant. And in so doing, avoiding the subject under discussion. The study cited is what it is. No attempt to make it prove or support something not in evidence in the study itself was intended. Attempts to make it look that way by copy and pasting sections of the report sans context are nothing more than harassment, not worthy of further comment than to point out the low moral and ethical standards of those that do such things. Have a great day. Kane |
#6
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Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior
In other words, you must believe in the LIES spewed by Kane. ;-) Doan On 11 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote: To the reader: If you have made it a practice to read research reports you know that each and every one, that has any peer credibility, will include a paragraph or two with caveats as to the limitations of the research (no study can explore all the possibilities, realistically) and suggestions for further research by others, or sometimes even plans to expand their own into the areas listed as limitations. Don't let yourself be fooled by harassing posters who think that the normal limitations of all research negate the validity of the one you are viewing. It's just childish harassment, nothing more. No argument offered in rebutal of the study. No other studies offered. In other words, no debate or argument, just harassment. Researchers ignore these, rightly so, but do respond to thoughtful and reasonable criticism, as we have seen in the past in this ng, from citation. My advice if you wish to really get into this issue without losing your way? Ignore those that harass and "debate" on fine points of what some poster might have or might not have meant. And in so doing, avoiding the subject under discussion. The study cited is what it is. No attempt to make it prove or support something not in evidence in the study itself was intended. Attempts to make it look that way by copy and pasting sections of the report sans context are nothing more than harassment, not worthy of further comment than to point out the low moral and ethical standards of those that do such things. Have a great day. Kane |
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Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior
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Trying to "reason" with a child or spanking?
Almost 40 percent of parents in the study population said they would
tell their child it is OK to hit if another person pushes or hits him or her Absolutely. If the kid doesn't hit back, the bullies will attack him again. I would spank the child for attacking nother person unprovoked, or after any sort of provocation that didn't involve being hit. But you hit my kid and he'll hit you back, and rightly so. Jennie |
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Trying to "reason" with a child or spanking?
Jennie wrote:
Almost 40 percent of parents in the study population said they would tell their child it is OK to hit if another person pushes or hits him or her Absolutely. If the kid doesn't hit back, the bullies will attack him again. I would spank the child for attacking nother person unprovoked, or after any sort of provocation that didn't involve being hit. But you hit my kid and he'll hit you back, and rightly so. Jennie You've no idea what you are promoting, do you? And no, the bullies do not hit back if the child uses those means available to civilized people. Now if the have no such means, and they are in danger, well sure. But a child can always go, or should be able to if their parent isn't a coward, and tell them what happened and ask for help. Most parents of bullies are not in support of them being bullies. Time and again parents have handled such things between them and the bully learned not to do that, and the bullied child learned the correct way to handle violence BEFORE it gets out of hand. Civilized people do the later. Savages, and the world is full of them, just escalate. By the way, I'm a gun owner. And I carry. The last thing I ever want to do is pull it on a "bully." Only if I have NO OTHER way out, would I do that. I've had a number of encounters with "bullies" of various kinds, from on the street to driving. It would never occur to me to draw my gun. Now if they took actions that endangered my life? Sure. But in any of those instances I've encountered that started to escalate, except for two, I simply called the police dispatch on my cell phone. I sought the help the civilized have put in place to keep from escalating to murderous violence. The two other incidences? They had progressed well into it being far too late to call the police, and the murderous intent of the aggressors was plainly spoken and being acted upon. Did I shot them? Did not have to. Again, no violence took place. Just the presence of my gun was enough to change their minds. I walk quietly, as Teddy suggested. I do not provoke. I avoid escalation. I use all the means possible to do this without violence, and even then, I use the potential to return violence with greater or equal violence only if the perp does not stop on my command. You are urging a child to hit at the first hit, are you not? A first hit from a child, even against another child, is rarely life threatening. If the bully is not satisfied with the child walking away and stops him or her, then sure, go for the gold. That's escalation by the bully. But do NOT presume it. And please, don't teach your child to not hit by hitting him. You do get the incongruence, so you not? Bullies are in fact spanked children. Unspanked children do not become bullies. Kane -- Isn't it interesting that the more honest an author appears to be, the more like ourselves we think him. And the less so, how very alien he doth appear? Kane 2006 |
#10
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Trying to "reason" with a child or spanking?
http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/heal...out530773.html
Health Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior MONDAY, Feb. 6 (HealthDay News) -- Parents who set an example that any form of violence -- including spanking -- is unacceptable are more likely to bring up children who don't get into fights or other forms of violence, researchers report. But their study also found that this type of childrearing isn't always the norm in American families. "Almost 40 percent of parents in the study population said they would tell their child it is OK to hit if another person pushes or hits him or her," said lead researcher Dr. Sally-Ann Ohene, formerly of the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis. "This suggests that for a significant number of these parents, advising their child to fight back is [considered] the best way" to deal with violence, she said. According to Ohene, children often heed that advice and do what they think is expected -- fight. On the other hand, parents who do not hit their children and who state categorically that hitting is wrong are sending a clear message that children can also understand and accept, the researchers say. They published their findings in the February issue of the journal Pediatrics. The study is based on a 2003 survey of 134 children 10 to 15 years old and their parents living in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metropolitan area. The parent-child pairs were culled from eight outpatient pediatric practices in urban and suburban areas covering a wide socio-economic range. The researchers found a clear inverse relationship between parental attitudes toward violence and their children's history of fighting: The more accepting the parent was toward violence, the more prone the child was to engage in violent scuffles. Similar results were found for the use of corporal punishment in the home, such as spanking. The results are interesting but predictable, said Daniel W. Webster, associate professor at the Center for the Prevention of Youth Violence, part of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore. "It is very consistent with other research about the cycle of violence," he said. "In homes where there is physical violence between parents, or parent to child, that increases the likelihood that they will have problems with increased violence." Webster stressed, however, that "most children who do experience violence do not go on to violence -- but it certainly increases the risk." It's also important to note that what behaviors parents expect from their child, and what their children believe their parents want, can be two very different things, said Dr. Iris Wagman Borowsky, an assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Minnesota and the senior author of the study. "What a child thinks a parent expects of him is more important than what a parent actually thinks," she said. "We find this is true for violence as well as other risk behaviors," including sexual activity and substance abuse. "It just makes good sense to talk with your child about how you feel about these issues," she said. More information To learn more about risk factors for youth violence, as well as protective factors, go to the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/yvfacts.htm Abstract of the study mentioned in the article: PEDIATRICS Vol. 117 No. 2 February 2006, pp. 441-447 (doi:10.1542/peds.2005-0421) Adolescent Medicine Parental Expectations, Physical Punishment, and Violence Among Adolescents Who Score Positive on a Psychosocial Screening Test in Primary Care OBJECTIVE. We sought to examine the relationship between perceived and stated parental expectations regarding adolescents' use of violence, parental use of physical punishment as discipline, and young adolescents' violence-related attitudes and involvement. METHODS. Surveys were completed by 134 youth and their parents attending 8 pediatric practices. All youth were 10 to 15 years of age and had scored positive on a psychosocial screening test. RESULTS. Multivariate analyses revealed that perceived parental disapproval of the use of violence was associated with a more prosocial attitude toward interpersonal peer violence and a decreased likelihood of physical fighting by the youth. Parental report of whether they would advise their child to use violence in a conflict situation (stated parental expectations) was not associated with the adolescents' attitudes toward interpersonal peer violence, intentions to fight, physical fighting, bullying, or violence victimization. Parental use of corporal punishment as a disciplining method was inversely associated with a prosocial attitude toward interpersonal peer violence among the youth and positively correlated with youths' intentions to fight and fighting, bullying, and violence victimization. CONCLUSIONS. Perceived parental disapproval of the use of violence may be an important protective factor against youth involvement in violence, and parental use of physical punishment is associated with both violence perpetration and victimization among youth. Parents should be encouraged to clearly communicate to their children how to resolve conflicts without resorting to violence and to model these skills themselves by avoiding the use of physical punishment. |
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