Low supply due to slow build up of milk

I am having a problem with supply. My son was born 3 weeks early and
is now 8 weeks old. I have been having problems breastfeeding from the
beginning. Know problems are high palette and weak sucking. The
hospital grade pump is stronger than he is. I have been on Fenegreek
and Blessed Thistle and still no success. I have gotten my supply "up"
some by pumping. My problem is that I can pump every hour and get an
ounce or less off each breast or I can pump every 4 hours and get 2 to
2 1/2 ounces per breast. I have gone to pump and then feed milk with
the bottle until I can get my supply up. I know my breast can carry
more that just a couple of ounces. If I go 8 to 10 hours then I get
engorged and can pull 3 to 4 ounces off each breast. I have tried
pumping every hour and can not get my breast to produce milk quicker.
If I empty the breast, it can take up to six hours before I can "feel"
like I have milk. If I do not "feel" like I have milk it seems that I
can not even get an ounce after 20 minutes of pumping. I was wondering
why it takes so long after being emptied to have enough milk for a
good 4 ounce feeding. Any advice on helping the milk to come on
quicker would me greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Monica

wrote in message
oups.com...
I am having a problem with supply. My son was born 3 weeks early and
is now 8 weeks old. I have been having problems breastfeeding from the
beginning. Know problems are high palette and weak sucking. The
hospital grade pump is stronger than he is. I have been on Fenegreek
and Blessed Thistle and still no success. I have gotten my supply "up"
some by pumping. My problem is that I can pump every hour and get an
ounce or less off each breast or I can pump every 4 hours and get 2 to
2 1/2 ounces per breast. I have gone to pump and then feed milk with
the bottle until I can get my supply up. I know my breast can carry
more that just a couple of ounces. If I go 8 to 10 hours then I get
engorged and can pull 3 to 4 ounces off each breast. I have tried
pumping every hour and can not get my breast to produce milk quicker.
If I empty the breast, it can take up to six hours before I can "feel"
like I have milk. If I do not "feel" like I have milk it seems that I
can not even get an ounce after 20 minutes of pumping. I was wondering
why it takes so long after being emptied to have enough milk for a
good 4 ounce feeding. Any advice on helping the milk to come on
quicker would me greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Monica

I don't know if I have much as far as advice goes, but I'm sure there's a
lot that will!
I know for me, a pump just doesn't work very well.
I remember with DS2, I could manually express a lot more than I could pump
out with any type of pump, but I was able to get quite a bit out with a
pump. I remember at almost any given time, I'd have about 10 bottles of 8oz
of milk frozen and stored.
With DD2, I couldn't pump and still can't pump. I also can't really
manually express much either. She seems to be my only "pump" that can get
much out any time. For some, pumps seem to work great. For others, not so
great. You just might be one of those that the pump just isn't the thing
for you.
How is your son's weight gain? Weight gain, I do believe, is far better
than trying to figure out how much milk. If weight gain is good, then
chances are, regardless of how much you can pump out, he is getting enough.
If his weight gain isn't very good, then that's a different story.
With breast feeding, one of the downfalls can be you never know just how
much a baby takes at one time. I've even found, IME, each baby is
different. I remember DS2 would eat FOREVER. He would nurse a good 15-20
minutes on each side before he was done. I also know DD2 now will only feed
about 5-10 minutes at the most on each side and then she's done. DS1 and
DS2 were right in the middle and seemed to be 'on average' for all of my
kids. DS2 and DD2 seemed to be extreme opposites for nursing, yet they both
still had excellent weight gain.
I would just watch weight and see how content he is. You don't really
mention much about that.

On Apr 22, 12:02 am, "xkatx" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...





I am having a problem with supply. My son was born 3 weeks early and
is now 8 weeks old. I have been having problems breastfeeding from the
beginning. Know problems are high palette and weak sucking. The
hospital grade pump is stronger than he is. I have been on Fenegreek
and Blessed Thistle and still no success. I have gotten my supply "up"
some by pumping. My problem is that I can pump every hour and get an
ounce or less off each breast or I can pump every 4 hours and get 2 to
2 1/2 ounces per breast. I have gone to pump and then feed milk with
the bottle until I can get my supply up. I know my breast can carry
more that just a couple of ounces. If I go 8 to 10 hours then I get
engorged and can pull 3 to 4 ounces off each breast. I have tried
pumping every hour and can not get my breast to produce milk quicker.
If I empty the breast, it can take up to six hours before I can "feel"
like I have milk. If I do not "feel" like I have milk it seems that I
can not even get an ounce after 20 minutes of pumping. I was wondering
why it takes so long after being emptied to have enough milk for a
good 4 ounce feeding. Any advice on helping the milk to come on
quicker would me greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Monica

I don't know if I have much as far as advice goes, but I'm sure there's a
lot that will!
I know for me, a pump just doesn't work very well.
I remember with DS2, I could manually express a lot more than I could pump
out with any type of pump, but I was able to get quite a bit out with a
pump. I remember at almost any given time, I'd have about 10 bottles of 8oz
of milk frozen and stored.
With DD2, I couldn't pump and still can't pump. I also can't really
manually express much either. She seems to be my only "pump" that can get
much out any time. For some, pumps seem to work great. For others, not so
great. You just might be one of those that the pump just isn't the thing
for you.
How is your son's weight gain? Weight gain, I do believe, is far better
than trying to figure out how much milk. If weight gain is good, then
chances are, regardless of how much you can pump out, he is getting enough.
If his weight gain isn't very good, then that's a different story.
With breast feeding, one of the downfalls can be you never know just how
much a baby takes at one time. I've even found, IME, each baby is
different. I remember DS2 would eat FOREVER. He would nurse a good 15-20
minutes on each side before he was done. I also know DD2 now will only feed
about 5-10 minutes at the most on each side and then she's done. DS1 and
DS2 were right in the middle and seemed to be 'on average' for all of my
kids. DS2 and DD2 seemed to be extreme opposites for nursing, yet they both
still had excellent weight gain.
I would just watch weight and see how content he is. You don't really
mention much about that.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry my son was born at 5 lbs 12 ozs and lost to 4 lbs 11 ozs in 5
days. I started giving formula to get some weight gain and slowly got
to move to complete breast milk in about 2 weeks. He weighed 9 lbs 3
ozs one week ago. Weight gain on the breast is good, only if he is
nursing all the time. I mean all the time with maybe 2 hours off
during day given at 30 minute times and a 6 hour stretch at night. Any
other time, we were feeding. I am lucking to work for myself, but
still need time during the day to work.
I have just never felt as though there was much milk. Even at times
when most talk about engorgement and leaking, I never seemed to have
any firmness to the breast at all. I can feel the milk now but only 4
hours after pumping and sometimes up to 8 (The knots in my breast).
The lactation consultant said that most of it may be due to the high
palette. He flipped the nipple upward and slowed the flow. He is also
a weak drinker. I chose to go to pumping to help with the all the time
feeding. I was told that my body may be used to the way my son fed.
Since he nursed all day, my breast got used to slowly producing milk.
I need to speed that milk production up.
If I could never get 4 ounces off both (2 oz each) breast with 20
minutes at each breast(double pump), then I would say that maybe I
could not pump. But, I can when the breast get firm. I also can get
close to the same production from a manual pump (it just causes my
arms to hurt). Not hard, just firm. Then when I fully empty it, it
will take 4 to 6 hours to get to that state again to get 4 ounces. Or
I can pump every 2 hours and get 2 ounces from both (1 oz each) breast
and it take 2 to 4 hours before I can pump again.
Sorry for leaving some details out. If you have any more questions,
just ask.....:-)
Thanks for your quick response. I see that each child is different. My
DD1, DS1, and DS2 was all formula fed. My DS3 is the one that I chose
to breastfeed. I enjoy it, but it is more worrysome than formula
feeding. I had tumors in my breast after the birth of the first 3 and
chose not to breastfeed out of fear that something could happen to
them. I wish I would have been more knowledgable then.

If you are not BF at all at the moment then you should be aiming to pump
every 3 hours. Make sure you drink PLENTY of water every hour (what I did
was drink a glass of water after every tip to the bathroom). Aim to pump
the same amount at each sitting and just stay put till you do. You might
end up waiting a couple of minutes then pumping what comes in, rinse and
repeat but it will help. I aimed to be pumping 100ml (around 4oz) off each
breast at each pumping. It might initially have taken me 1/2 hour to get
that amount but I always made sure I got my decided amount each time.
Sometimes I would get 10ml of a breast then switch then switch back etc till
I got the required amount.

If I have read this wrong and you are BF as well as pumping then I would
apply similar rules. After each feed pump until you get say 1oz off each
breast. It doesn't have to be a huge amount extra because once your body
adjusts to making that extra bit and you can pump it easier then move to
pumping 1.2 or 2oz etc. As long as you are getting out more than your baby
is drinking your supply will slowly increase.


--
Pip

My girls :
DD1 Jasmine - 5 weeks early - March 02 - 4lb 12oz
Still as small as a peanut but as smart as a whip!

DD2 Abby - 8 weeks early - Feb 05 - 3lb 14oz
I'm two and what a Demon I can be!!

"Yes you can drive me insane just by talking to me!"

wrote in message
oups.com...
I am having a problem with supply. My son was born 3 weeks early and
is now 8 weeks old. I have been having problems breastfeeding from the
beginning. Know problems are high palette and weak sucking. The
hospital grade pump is stronger than he is. I have been on Fenegreek
and Blessed Thistle and still no success. I have gotten my supply "up"
some by pumping. My problem is that I can pump every hour and get an
ounce or less off each breast or I can pump every 4 hours and get 2 to
2 1/2 ounces per breast. I have gone to pump and then feed milk with
the bottle until I can get my supply up. I know my breast can carry
more that just a couple of ounces. If I go 8 to 10 hours then I get
engorged and can pull 3 to 4 ounces off each breast. I have tried
pumping every hour and can not get my breast to produce milk quicker.
If I empty the breast, it can take up to six hours before I can "feel"
like I have milk. If I do not "feel" like I have milk it seems that I
can not even get an ounce after 20 minutes of pumping. I was wondering
why it takes so long after being emptied to have enough milk for a
good 4 ounce feeding. Any advice on helping the milk to come on
quicker would me greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Monica

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Apr 22, 12:02 am, "xkatx" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...





I am having a problem with supply. My son was born 3 weeks early and
is now 8 weeks old. I have been having problems breastfeeding from the
beginning. Know problems are high palette and weak sucking. The
hospital grade pump is stronger than he is. I have been on Fenegreek
and Blessed Thistle and still no success. I have gotten my supply "up"
some by pumping. My problem is that I can pump every hour and get an
ounce or less off each breast or I can pump every 4 hours and get 2 to
2 1/2 ounces per breast. I have gone to pump and then feed milk with
the bottle until I can get my supply up. I know my breast can carry
more that just a couple of ounces. If I go 8 to 10 hours then I get
engorged and can pull 3 to 4 ounces off each breast. I have tried
pumping every hour and can not get my breast to produce milk quicker.
If I empty the breast, it can take up to six hours before I can "feel"
like I have milk. If I do not "feel" like I have milk it seems that I
can not even get an ounce after 20 minutes of pumping. I was wondering
why it takes so long after being emptied to have enough milk for a
good 4 ounce feeding. Any advice on helping the milk to come on
quicker would me greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Monica

I don't know if I have much as far as advice goes, but I'm sure there's a
lot that will!
I know for me, a pump just doesn't work very well.
I remember with DS2, I could manually express a lot more than I could
pump
out with any type of pump, but I was able to get quite a bit out with a
pump. I remember at almost any given time, I'd have about 10 bottles of
8oz
of milk frozen and stored.
With DD2, I couldn't pump and still can't pump. I also can't really
manually express much either. She seems to be my only "pump" that can
get
much out any time. For some, pumps seem to work great. For others, not
so
great. You just might be one of those that the pump just isn't the thing
for you.
How is your son's weight gain? Weight gain, I do believe, is far better
than trying to figure out how much milk. If weight gain is good, then
chances are, regardless of how much you can pump out, he is getting
enough.
If his weight gain isn't very good, then that's a different story.
With breast feeding, one of the downfalls can be you never know just how
much a baby takes at one time. I've even found, IME, each baby is
different. I remember DS2 would eat FOREVER. He would nurse a good
15-20
minutes on each side before he was done. I also know DD2 now will only
feed
about 5-10 minutes at the most on each side and then she's done. DS1 and
DS2 were right in the middle and seemed to be 'on average' for all of my
kids. DS2 and DD2 seemed to be extreme opposites for nursing, yet they
both
still had excellent weight gain.
I would just watch weight and see how content he is. You don't really
mention much about that.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry my son was born at 5 lbs 12 ozs and lost to 4 lbs 11 ozs in 5
days. I started giving formula to get some weight gain and slowly got
to move to complete breast milk in about 2 weeks. He weighed 9 lbs 3
ozs one week ago. Weight gain on the breast is good, only if he is
nursing all the time. I mean all the time with maybe 2 hours off
during day given at 30 minute times and a 6 hour stretch at night. Any
other time, we were feeding. I am lucking to work for myself, but
still need time during the day to work.

Weight loss in the first little bit is not uncommon. 'They' say that an
average baby will lose weight but be back to birth weight by about 10 days.
I'm not sure who 'they' is, and this is just what seems to be most common,
IME.
I would think that his weight gain so far is pretty good.
Also, it's not uncommon for babies that are fed on demand to seem like
they're constantly eating. I know I had this problem with DD2 recently.
She was always fed on demand and it often felt like she was eating every
hour. I did feed her ALL the time, but I slowly learned to follow her cues.
When she cried and seemed hungry, sometimes she wasn't. There were times at
the beginning that when she'd cry, I'd feed her, yet she really wasn't
hungry. She was tired. She was too warm. Too cold. Bored. Whatever.
Crying doesn't always mean hungry, neither does sucking. Sometimes it seems
they just like to suck for comfort.
6 hours of sleep at night is really good for that age. IIRC, I read
somewhere that 6 hours of sleep through the night is basically considered
sleeping through the night.
With the feeding constantly during the day, I found it really hard on me as
I couldn't just sit down and relax EVER to feed her all the time because I
have older children. I have a toddler to put down for naps, play with, give
attention to. I have a bus to get ready for to send a school aged one off
to school, and also a bus to wait for at lunch time for returning home from
school. Play time, craft time, attention time for everyone else as well.
That's when I really tried hard to take note of what the newborn was trying
to say and found out crying doesn't always mean hunger!

I have just never felt as though there was much milk. Even at times
when most talk about engorgement and leaking, I never seemed to have
any firmness to the breast at all. I can feel the milk now but only 4
hours after pumping and sometimes up to 8 (The knots in my breast).
The lactation consultant said that most of it may be due to the high
palette. He flipped the nipple upward and slowed the flow. He is also
a weak drinker. I chose to go to pumping to help with the all the time
feeding. I was told that my body may be used to the way my son fed.
Since he nursed all day, my breast got used to slowly producing milk.
I need to speed that milk production up.

Engorgement doesn't always happen to every woman. It does happen often
enough, but some don't experience it. Often, IME, it happens right at the
start when milk first comes in in the first couple days. I haven't used
more than about 8 breast pads in a big box of them since DD2 was born, and
she's 6 months old. I normally don't feel full, except on occasion.
It is true that milk does come on demand. You pretty much do set the amount
by how much baby feeds. This could go back to the part about babies crying
does not always mean they're hungry. If possible, maybe some type of
schedule might help, especially if there are other things you must do during
the day and don't have the option or ability to just nurse the baby all day.
If you can hold him off an extra hour between feedings during the day, it
might help with his feeding. If you slowly get him to go longer between
feedings, it just might be easier for you. Right now, it's very possible
he's only getting partial feedings because he is fed so often. He might be
feeding on only a half-empty stomach, so he only takes half of what his
tummy can hold, causing feedings more often and for less at each time.
For speeding up, some women, I've heard, swear on oatmeal every day as well.
Also, I have found that if I'm able to relax and be very comfortable for
feeding DD2, it's just easier. Relaxing can help as well, as stress might
do the opposite.

If I could never get 4 ounces off both (2 oz each) breast with 20
minutes at each breast(double pump), then I would say that maybe I
could not pump. But, I can when the breast get firm. I also can get
close to the same production from a manual pump (it just causes my
arms to hurt). Not hard, just firm. Then when I fully empty it, it
will take 4 to 6 hours to get to that state again to get 4 ounces. Or
I can pump every 2 hours and get 2 ounces from both (1 oz each) breast
and it take 2 to 4 hours before I can pump again.
Sorry for leaving some details out. If you have any more questions,
just ask.....:-)
Thanks for your quick response. I see that each child is different. My
DD1, DS1, and DS2 was all formula fed. My DS3 is the one that I chose
to breastfeed. I enjoy it, but it is more worrysome than formula
feeding. I had tumors in my breast after the birth of the first 3 and
chose not to breastfeed out of fear that something could happen to
them. I wish I would have been more knowledgable then.

For everyone, it does definitely seem to be very different experiences.
As far as way of feeding goes, I really do believe that whatever works best
for mother and baby is the best. I do strongly support breast feeding. I
do strongly believe the saying that 'breast is best' (even have a keychain
saying that on my van keys!) but I would never look down on someone who
formula feeds, just as I would not want someone to look down on me for
breast feeding. Breast feeding isn't something that always comes naturally
for every mother and every baby. For me, nursing my first for the first
time ever was so easy. We had absolutely no problems at all. For some
reason, he latched perfectly since the first time and from that point on, it
went as smooth as possible. It did feel so natural, like we both knew
exactly what we were doing, yet I really didn't know. With DD1 and DD2,
OTOH, we really, really had to work. It came as a shock to me as I did have
this thought in my head that since I had done it many, many times before, it
would be a snap and as easy as could be. Boy, was I ever wrong. With both
girls, we BOTH had to work extremely hard, and it was so far from a walk in
the park.

I would just simply watch his weight. Breasts that don't feel full don't
always mean they're empty and nothing is in there. Melon-boobs (when they
do feel full) often seem to produce more visible results, like with a pump,
but I have found from experience that even if they don't feel full at all,
it doesn't always mean that the baby can't get anything out. After all, the
baby is most often your best 'pump'!

skrev:
more that just a couple of ounces. If I go 8 to 10 hours then I get
engorged and can pull 3 to 4 ounces off each breast. I have tried
pumping every hour and can not get my breast to produce milk quicker.
If I empty the breast, it can take up to six hours before I can "feel"
like I have milk. If I do not "feel" like I have milk it seems that I

Your son is now 8 weeks - that's the time when milk production have
stabilized to be regulated by demand and not by hormones. It's very
common to to feel 'full' at this point - ever.

If you only pump/feed once every 4 hours you're sending signals to the
breast that you don't need as much as it's producing (gets worse with
every 8 hours, naturally)

If you want to increase output you should pump every 3 hours around the
clock - or at least 8 times a day - maybe even more (Larry? Come in here?)

The breast produces the most, when it's empty - you cannot completely
empty a breast as it's producing constantly. Within an hour after
pumping/feeding it will have produced 40% (IIRC) of it's maximum
contents - and then less and less the next hours.

How much you can pump also has to do with how good you are at letting go
of the milk - how good you are at having a let down for the pump. Some
do it easily and some have great difficulties letting down for the pump.
Do you know if you have a let down when you pump? Or when you nurse?
When you nurse you can listen to your baby - when there's a
suck-swallow-such-swallow rythm you're having a let down - it slows down
to suck-suck-swallow - and later to suck-suck-suck-suck.....swallow. You
may have two let downs in a feed from one breast.

My advice would be (as the others have also mentioned)

- Drink enough
- Fenugreek - you're having enough when you start to smell like maple
syrup, I've been told
- Pump/feed very often - at that age I fed 10-12 times a day
- Take a three day break in bed and have someone bring you food and
drink. Bring a good book and feed - feed - feed.

Tine, Denmark

Workingmom skrev:
Your son is now 8 weeks - that's the time when milk production have
stabilized to be regulated by demand and not by hormones. It's very
common to to feel 'full' at this point - ever.

NOT to feel full

Sorry!

Tine Ditmar

wrote:

Sorry my son was born at 5 lbs 12 ozs and lost to 4 lbs 11 ozs in 5
days.

First of all, it takes up to two weeks to regain
to birth weight. I think your son did do that.

to move to complete breast milk in about 2 weeks.

Excellent.

He weighed 9 lbs 3
ozs one week ago.

Wow, so in 2 months, he almost doubled his weight.
He is doing awesome.

Weight gain on the breast is good, only if he is
nursing all the time. I mean all the time with maybe 2 hours off
during day given at 30 minute times and a 6 hour stretch at night.

This is normal. Repeat after me, what your baby
is doing is normal. Infants are supposed to
nurse all the time. Yes, normal. Got that?

Pillbug nursed for 45 minutes per hour, every
hour, during the daytime. He went about 3 hours
at night. Rocky was latched on almost constantly
in the first few weeks, then went to cluster feeding,
where he nursed from 5pm to 9pm straight (well, okay,
I got 5-minute breaks here and there).

Any
other time, we were feeding. I am lucking to work for myself, but
still need time during the day to work.

The reason new mothers need their village is that
nursing takes up so much time initially. I'm sorry
that you have to work so soon after giving birth.

I have just never felt as though there was much milk. Even at times
when most talk about engorgement and leaking, I never seemed to have
any firmness to the breast at all.

That's fine. You don't have to ever feel engorgement.
Consider yourself lucky that you don't have to spend
a fortune on bra pads.

I can feel the milk now but only 4
hours after pumping and sometimes up to 8

Now, it seems to me you have great supply. Baby is
gaining weight well and he is doing this by nursing
exclusively. You do NOT have to pump. Unless you
are building up a freezer stash, stop pumping now.
Give yourself a break.

Since he nursed all day, my breast got used to slowly producing milk.
I need to speed that milk production up.

No, you do not need to "speed ... production up".
You are doing fine.

If I could never get 4 ounces off both (2 oz each) breast with 20
minutes at each breast(double pump), then I would say that maybe I
could not pump.

When women pump in addition to nursing, getting 1 oz.
is average. When pumping instead of nursing (such as
at work), 3 oz. is average. You are pumping in
addition to nursing and getting 4 oz. That is
extremely good supply.

But, I can when the breast get firm. I also can get
close to the same production from a manual pump (it just causes my
arms to hurt).

Stop pumping. You're fine. Stop pumping.

If you want to create a freezer stash, then pump
once a day and freeze that milk. Otherwise, stop
pumping. Don't stress. Give yourself some extra
free time.

Baby is doing great. Stop pumping.

-- Anita --

wrote:

Since he nursed all day,

By the way, there are well-known growth spurts
at 3 weeks, 6 weeks, 3 months, and 6 months.
Brace yourself for baby to nurse EVEN MORE in
a month! Prepare to be unable to work for a
few days.

-- Anita --

"Irrational Number" wrote in message
ink.net...
wrote:

Sorry my son was born at 5 lbs 12 ozs and lost to 4 lbs 11 ozs in 5
days.

First of all, it takes up to two weeks to regain
to birth weight. I think your son did do that.

to move to complete breast milk in about 2 weeks.

Excellent.

He weighed 9 lbs 3
ozs one week ago.

Wow, so in 2 months, he almost doubled his weight.
He is doing awesome.


I was going to say exactly what you just said above, until my computer froze
and I had to start all over again lol
I heard it was about 10 days for birth weight, but I do agree that 14 days
is probably about average. Maybe the 10 days I heard was the high end of
average. I only remember 10 days because DD2 was about 2 oz over her birth
weight by 8 days when I weighed her, and the nurse made a comment about
awesome weight gain - and just above birth weight 2 days early.
I don't remember when mine doubled birth weight, but by 2 months, that is
definitely good weight gain. I know right now, DD2 was just over 14lbs when
weighed last, and that was 2 or so weeks ago. I'd guess she's over 15lbs
now for sure, and I'm preparing for another huge growth spurt real soon as
she's 6 months. She was 7lbs 3oz at birth.

Weight gain on the breast is good, only if he is
nursing all the time. I mean all the time with maybe 2 hours off
during day given at 30 minute times and a 6 hour stretch at night.

This is normal. Repeat after me, what your baby
is doing is normal. Infants are supposed to
nurse all the time. Yes, normal. Got that?

Pillbug nursed for 45 minutes per hour, every
hour, during the daytime. He went about 3 hours
at night. Rocky was latched on almost constantly
in the first few weeks, then went to cluster feeding,
where he nursed from 5pm to 9pm straight (well, okay,
I got 5-minute breaks here and there).

Any
other time, we were feeding. I am lucking to work for myself, but
still need time during the day to work.

The reason new mothers need their village is that
nursing takes up so much time initially. I'm sorry
that you have to work so soon after giving birth.

I have just never felt as though there was much milk. Even at times
when most talk about engorgement and leaking, I never seemed to have
any firmness to the breast at all.

That's fine. You don't have to ever feel engorgement.
Consider yourself lucky that you don't have to spend
a fortune on bra pads.

I can feel the milk now but only 4
hours after pumping and sometimes up to 8

Now, it seems to me you have great supply. Baby is
gaining weight well and he is doing this by nursing
exclusively. You do NOT have to pump. Unless you
are building up a freezer stash, stop pumping now.
Give yourself a break.

Since he nursed all day, my breast got used to slowly producing milk.
I need to speed that milk production up.

No, you do not need to "speed ... production up".
You are doing fine.

If I could never get 4 ounces off both (2 oz each) breast with 20
minutes at each breast(double pump), then I would say that maybe I
could not pump.

When women pump in addition to nursing, getting 1 oz.
is average. When pumping instead of nursing (such as
at work), 3 oz. is average. You are pumping in
addition to nursing and getting 4 oz. That is
extremely good supply.

But, I can when the breast get firm. I also can get
close to the same production from a manual pump (it just causes my
arms to hurt).

Stop pumping. You're fine. Stop pumping.

If you want to create a freezer stash, then pump
once a day and freeze that milk. Otherwise, stop
pumping. Don't stress. Give yourself some extra
free time.

Baby is doing great. Stop pumping.

-- Anita --

LOL good advice!