6 mos eating

"cjra" wrote in message
I can guarantee you none of my siblings who have given birth in the last
21 years (oldest nephew is 21, youngest niece is 1.5) know anything
about AAP recommendations except maybe my MD sister, and if I was
listening to her for advice, her youngest is ~12 and I highly doubt
she's looked at AAP recommendations since then. The general
population is less aware of such things and go by the word of other
parents.

Gosh, I wonder how us older parents ever raised our kids. Parents today are
so knowledgable and right about everything. (rolls eyes). I must have done
everything wrong, but how can that be because my girls are thriving,
healthy, socially accepted, no allergies (and there are allergies in my
family), and seem to eat healthy and a wide variety of foods compared to
their peers. Since I followed the guidelines for parents when my girls were
babies, how did they ever grow up since it was wrong.

Sue

On May 2, 6:50 am, "Sue" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message
I can guarantee you none of my siblings who have given birth in the last
21 years (oldest nephew is 21, youngest niece is 1.5) know anything
about AAP recommendations except maybe my MD sister, and if I was
listening to her for advice, her youngest is ~12 and I highly doubt
she's looked at AAP recommendations since then. The general
population is less aware of such things and go by the word of other
parents.

Gosh, I wonder how us older parents ever raised our kids. Parents today are
so knowledgable and right about everything. (rolls eyes). I must have done
everything wrong, but how can that be because my girls are thriving,
healthy, socially accepted, no allergies (and there are allergies in my
family), and seem to eat healthy and a wide variety of foods compared to
their peers. Since I followed the guidelines for parents when my girls were
babies, how did they ever grow up since it was wrong.

Sue

Whoa Defensive much?
I never said anything about bad choices they made. I didn't say that
being less aware of the recommendations was a *bad* thing, only that
most people don't really pay attention/know about them/follow them. I
never said that going by the word of other parents was bad.

What was wrong? I never said they did anything wrong.

My point was that the usenet community, and in general the chat group
community on many forums are much more aware of 'AAP Recommendations'
than the general public, IME. It's easy for us to forget that many
people never use the internet and though many do read parenting books,
I've found the recommendations in parenting books to be all over the
place and rarely consistent. The whole talk about AAP recommendations
is much more prevelant on the 'net than it is in real life, IME.
People on chat groups like to refer to AAP recommendations A LOT, but
it's a rare moment amongst friends and family members who are parents
to even hear about AAP recommendations. Most people tend to go with
pedi's recommendations if at all, and I have heard of many many many
pedis who recommend starting solids at 4 months. On another forum I am
on, I'd say 60%+ have started solids by 4 months, due to pedi
recommendations (incl. my own). Hence, AAP recommendations don't mean
a whole lot in the real world, or rather, they don't translate into
action as directly as we on usenet seem to think.


Sue, I've noticed that you always seem to react this way to my posts.
You've clearly got some issues with me, for whatever reason. You are
way off base in your interpretation of my post, as usual. I am sure
your girls are wonderful. I have never indicated otherwise or
suggested you were a bad parent in any way.

"cjra" wrote in message
Whoa Defensive much?

I don't mean to be, but yeah sometimes I am especially since I did follow
the ped's recommendations and the AAP guidlines for my time. At the time, I
didn't find anything wrong with the ped's recommendations on starting solids
at 4 months and I was pretty rabid about it because I knew too many parents
who didn't. I also knew all about baby's immature digestive system and how
it cannot digest certain things in the beginning. I also worked in a ped's
office and had lots of exposure of what things were recommended and what was
not.

I never said anything about bad choices they made. I didn't say that
being less aware of the recommendations was a *bad* thing, only that
most people don't really pay attention/know about them/follow them. I
never said that going by the word of other parents was bad.

Well you may have not said it directly, but that is the underlying tone of
the group. Even following doctors orders is considered a bad thing, which I
don't happen to agree with most of the time. Yes, doctors are human and make
mistakes; however, most of the time, they have took the time to read up on
new findings, at least I know my ped did and still does. I know that is not
true of all docs. I am really lucky and that colors my views on the medical
establishment.

My point was that the usenet community, and in general the chat group
community on many forums are much more aware of 'AAP Recommendations'
than the general public, IME. It's easy for us to forget that many
people never use the internet and though many do read parenting books,
I've found the recommendations in parenting books to be all over the
place and rarely consistent.

Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Plenty of people read magazines that are
published for parents and AAP guidelines are all over them of their
findings.The reason nothing is consistent is because the human body is not
exact, so therefore all that can be used is guidelines. Sometimes I think
that new parents (myself included in this) get so caught up in what the so
called "experts" have to say that they forget that their baby has not read a
book or participated in the studies. There may be a baby who is ready for
solids at 4 months. Is two months really that much difference? And I am
being mildly sarcastic when I say that I am surprised that we all survived.
You've read the poem about riding in the back end of the truck and so on, I
mean I used to do that kind of stuff and survived. New information and
technology is definitely welcomed, but really I think that we actually are
doing pretty good. I wish there were AAPs guidelines for once the child
reaches school age and above, because I really could use a manual to follow
to make things easier. ;o)

Most people tend to go with pedi's recommendations if at all, and I have
heard of many many many pedis who recommend starting solids at 4 months.

Yes, it used to be the norm and many people followed it without any
problems. Now all of a sudden, that particular recommendation is wrong and
now the parents who followed that rule are made to feel that we made the
worst mistake in the world. I still think that parents need to look at the
baby and not the books, ped's recommendation, or AAP, and use their own
instinct, but I definitely understand the need to do everything by the book
when you have a new baby. I guess take everything with a grain of salt.

Sue, I've noticed that you always seem to react this way to my posts.
You've clearly got some issues with me, for whatever reason.

No I don't have an issue with you, honestly. It may be the tone of the post
and me not being able to see your face. I truly hate this way of
communicating.

I remember being a new parent and me thinking that I knew everything and
poo-poohed everything my mom had to say or advice she had given. Each
generation is going to do this with the previous generation and I guess I am
not used to the fact that I am at least 10 yrs older than most on this group
and things have changed. When I was starting out, I followed all the
recommendations and felt good about myself. I don't want to know now that it
was all wrong ;o)

You are way off base in your interpretation of my post, as usual.

Probably. I do enjoy reading what you have to say though, even though I can
predict now where you are in terms of parenting style. I was and am a very
different kind of parent that what usenet has to portray. I am in more in
line with RL parents and it is definitely different and frustrating to say
the least. I seem to be more laid back than most. I think because I had a
very overprotective mother.

I am sure your girls are wonderful. I have never indicated otherwise or
suggested you were a bad parent in any way.

Oh I know that. Hindsight is always 20/20. I think each set of generations
feel slightly bad at things they could have done different, but I tend to
forget the big picture. Feeding and sleeping is only a fraction of what lies
ahead.

Sue

On May 2, 12:19 pm, "Sue" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message
Whoa Defensive much?

I don't mean to be, but yeah sometimes I am especially since I did follow
the ped's recommendations and the AAP guidlines for my time. At the time, I
didn't find anything wrong with the ped's recommendations on starting solids
at 4 months and I was pretty rabid about it because I knew too many parents
who didn't. I also knew all about baby's immature digestive system and how
it cannot digest certain things in the beginning. I also worked in a ped's
office and had lots of exposure of what things were recommended and what was
not.

I never said anything about bad choices they made. I didn't say that
being less aware of the recommendations was a *bad* thing, only that
most people don't really pay attention/know about them/follow them. I
never said that going by the word of other parents was bad.

Well you may have not said it directly, but that is the underlying tone of
the group.

I didn't realize I was speaking for the tone of the group. I tend to
say exactly what I mean, and try not to rely upon implication.
Sometimes I fail at that due to poor word choice, but I certainly
wasn't trying to convey previous generations (or even those who had
babies 10-15 yrs ago) did anything 'bad.'

Even following doctors orders is considered a bad thing, which I
don't happen to agree with most of the time. Yes, doctors are human and make
mistakes; however, most of the time, they have took the time to read up on
new findings, at least I know my ped did and still does. I know that is not
true of all docs. I am really lucky and that colors my views on the medical
establishment.

I work with too many medical professionals and am in the field myself
to give them the omniscient title far too many seem to want. I also
work with some wonderful medical professionals who recognize they
don't already know everything and take the time to learn and listen to
their patients. I chose my pedi because he is the latter, even if I
don't agree with him on all topics.

However, I was also always taught to question, to never take someone's
word as gospel truth simply because they were in a position of
authority or power. That holds true for the medical profession. I
don't think doctors are all evil, I think they're human. The best ones
recognize they are.

It's really funny, as in my work I often have to call physicians about
diagnoses/lab result interpretation, and if I state "This is Dr. CJRA"
I get a very different response than if I state simply my name (I have
a PhD and so often do not use the Dr title).


My point was that the usenet community, and in general the chat group
community on many forums are much more aware of 'AAP Recommendations'
than the general public, IME. It's easy for us to forget that many
people never use the internet and though many do read parenting books,
I've found the recommendations in parenting books to be all over the
place and rarely consistent.

Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Plenty of people read magazines that are
published for parents and AAP guidelines are all over them of their
findings.The reason nothing is consistent is because the human body is not
exact, so therefore all that can be used is guidelines. Sometimes I think
that new parents (myself included in this) get so caught up in what the so
called "experts" have to say that they forget that their baby has not read a
book or participated in the studies. There may be a baby who is ready for
solids at 4 months. Is two months really that much difference? And I am
being mildly sarcastic when I say that I am surprised that we all survived.
You've read the poem about riding in the back end of the truck and so on, I
mean I used to do that kind of stuff and survived. New information and
technology is definitely welcomed, but really I think that we actually are
doing pretty good. I wish there were AAPs guidelines for once the child
reaches school age and above, because I really could use a manual to follow
to make things easier. ;o)

Most people tend to go with pedi's recommendations if at all, and I have
heard of many many many pedis who recommend starting solids at 4 months.

Yes, it used to be the norm and many people followed it without any
problems. Now all of a sudden, that particular recommendation is wrong and
now the parents who followed that rule are made to feel that we made the
worst mistake in the world.

Really? Someone told you you made the worst mistake in the world?
That's too bad. Certainly my sibs and some friends (most of whom had
kids awhile ago) feel like they did what was right at the time. End of
story.

I still think that parents need to look at the
baby and not the books, ped's recommendation, or AAP, and use their own
instinct, but I definitely understand the need to do everything by the book
when you have a new baby. I guess take everything with a grain of salt.

I don't disagree with you there. Babies don't read books, and the
first thing I do in my 'parenting style' (I loathe that term) is to
follow my baby's lead and what I think is best. I avoided buying any
books for awhile because I didn't want to get sucked into what the
books said should be done/not done. However once I got comfortable
with my baby I was able to turn to books for confirmation or
information. Frankly, my kid wasn't ready for solids at 6 months. So
we slowed down and introduced them a bit later.

Sue, I've noticed that you always seem to react this way to my posts.
You've clearly got some issues with me, for whatever reason.

No I don't have an issue with you, honestly. It may be the tone of the post
and me not being able to see your face. I truly hate this way of
communicating.

I remember being a new parent and me thinking that I knew everything and
poo-poohed everything my mom had to say or advice she had given.

My mom raised 8 kids, born between 1956-1972. Definitely the
guidelines then were different than they are now. But I have had to
say *only once* that 'this is what is recommended now,' and that was
because she was insisting my DD wear a hat on her super sweaty head
and calling in 'the experts' was the only way to get her to back down.
I do a lot different than she did, and a lot the same. I have a huge
respect for my parents' parenting, even when I don't make the same
choices. Some of my friends had kids 15+ years ago (i'm the 'late
bloomer' with respect to child bearing age) and made different
decisions than I make. Not a big deal, unless they try to push me to
do things their way (which rarely happens).

Each
generation is going to do this with the previous generation and I guess I am
not used to the fact that I am at least 10 yrs older than most on this group
and things have changed. When I was starting out, I followed all the
recommendations and felt good about myself. I don't want to know now that it
was all wrong ;o)

Why do you not need to feel good about yourself? We never had
seatbelts when we were kids. My parents aren't wracked with guilt for
not having used them. (That said, my aunt is, whose baby died in a car
accident being unrestrained, some 50 years ago).


You are way off base in your interpretation of my post, as usual.

Probably. I do enjoy reading what you have to say though, even though I can
predict now where you are in terms of parenting style.

I really hate when people online ask "what is your parenting style?"
My style is to parent my child the best way I know how. Period. End of
story. I despise labels and don't get this need people have for them.
I don't fit into a box and nor does my kid.

I was and am a very
different kind of parent that what usenet has to portray. I am in more in
line with RL parents and it is definitely different and frustrating to say
the least. I seem to be more laid back than most. I think because I had a
very overprotective mother.

Usenet is a subset of the real population, and like any group will
draw like minded individuals. On one chat group I ocassion, I feel out
of place for cloth diapering, extended BF (if we go that route),
certainly homebirth is considered moronic there. On another, I feel
like I might as well have been following Ezzo (I think that's the
one). Then there's mothering.com which scares me.

IRL, I find a much greater mix. There's one group I've begun to
socialize with whose parenting habits are similar to mine (and even
then I feel weird there sometimes). Then other friends who are well
past the baby stage that fall across the whole range. Then there's a
group who are just now having babies who are figuring things out.

I am sure your girls are wonderful. I have never indicated otherwise or
suggested you were a bad parent in any way.

Oh I know that. Hindsight is always 20/20. I think each set of generations
feel slightly bad at things they could have done different, but I tend to
forget the big picture. Feeding and sleeping is only a fraction of what lies
ahead.

I already have a small list of things to do differently with the next
kid, but I don't think I'm a horrible parent for not doing it one way
the first time around. I'm sure my daughter doesn't expect
perfection. One of the things I respect about my parents is that they
are honest about having made mistakes, but not regretting of decisions
made in terms of parenting. They did what was right and worked at the
time. Raising kids is a learning process, we're still teaching them ;-)

In article ,
"Sue" wrote:

Most people tend to go with pedi's recommendations if at all, and I have
heard of many many many pedis who recommend starting solids at 4 months.

Yes, it used to be the norm and many people followed it without any
problems. Now all of a sudden, that particular recommendation is wrong and
now the parents who followed that rule are made to feel that we made the
worst mistake in the world.

I am not sure where you get this bit from. Who has implied that you made the
worst mistake in the world (*)? I've seen a fair bit of "the doctors were
wrong" or "the recommendation was wrong" but I have never seen "the parents
were wrong to follow the official recommendations of the time".

My personal motto is, "Do your best and trust God for the rest". The "best" I
mean is not perfection, but the best you could given the knowledge and
resources you had at the time. I'm pretty sure you would have done that when
your girls were little -- if you didn't care, you wouldn't be here.

(*) If a person thinks that feeding a child solids early is the worst thing in
the world, they need to get out a bit more!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

"cjra" wrote in message
I didn't realize I was speaking for the tone of the group. I tend to
say exactly what I mean, and try not to rely upon implication.
Sometimes I fail at that due to poor word choice, but I certainly
wasn't trying to convey previous generations (or even those who had
babies 10-15 yrs ago) did anything 'bad.'

You're not no. But, I have been on this group a long time and the tone of
the group is one that I can't exactly put into words, but is one of must
follow the WHO and AAP organization by the book or else. It could be just a
select few though that push it.

I work with too many medical professionals and am in the field myself
to give them the omniscient title far too many seem to want. I also
work with some wonderful medical professionals who recognize they
don't already know everything and take the time to learn and listen to
their patients. I chose my pedi because he is the latter, even if I
don't agree with him on all topics.

I work with medical professionals myself and have since I was 15 yrs old. I
definitely agree with some that think they are God and fortunately, I
haven't had to deal with too many of them. However, my ped is a wonderful
person who has researched and studied and followed the trends, so yes I do
tend to listen to him and follow what he says. My daughter has another
doctor that I don't trust at all, so I am more leery of him and his
suggestions and research everything with him.

Really? Someone told you you made the worst mistake in the world?
That's too bad. Certainly my sibs and some friends (most of whom had
kids awhile ago) feel like they did what was right at the time. End of
story.

No, for heaven sakes. This is why I hate this way of communicating.
Everything is taken so literal. No one has ever told me that I am "bad" for
doing anything. It's on usenet the underlying tone of if you feed solids at
4 months is a horrible thing. However, now that the girls are older, feeding
is such a tiny aspect of parenting that it seems silly to even discuss it
now.

My mom raised 8 kids, born between 1956-1972. Definitely the
guidelines then were different than they are now. But I have had to
say *only once* that 'this is what is recommended now,' and that was
because she was insisting my DD wear a hat on her super sweaty head
and calling in 'the experts' was the only way to get her to back down.

LOL, I remember my mom doing something similar. It was when DD2 was born and
it was something like 100 degrees outside and I had a fan in the living room
oscilliating around the room and my mom said something like put a blanket on
the baby because the cold air will give her a cold. Other than little things
like that, I didn't have too may run ins with my mom.

Why do you not need to feel good about yourself? We never had
seatbelts when we were kids. My parents aren't wracked with guilt for
not having used them. (That said, my aunt is, whose baby died in a car
accident being unrestrained, some 50 years ago).

I was kidding. I don't feel bad, honestly. It was just an example I used to
state that kids are pretty resilient and unless there is absolute neglect
going on, that most things parents do end up just fine.

I really hate when people online ask "what is your parenting style?"
My style is to parent my child the best way I know how. Period. End of
story. I despise labels and don't get this need people have for them.
I don't fit into a box and nor does my kid.

I don't have a parenting style either, really. I followed my gut when they
were babies and pretty much follow it today. I am more laid back than most
parents that I see, but nothing wrong with that.

Usenet is a subset of the real population, and like any group will
draw like minded individuals. On one chat group I ocassion, I feel out
of place for cloth diapering, extended BF (if we go that route),
certainly homebirth is considered moronic there. On another, I feel
like I might as well have been following Ezzo (I think that's the
one). Then there's mothering.com which scares me.

That's true. I found a group that parents teens that I have just joined
because honestly I can't relate to the baby thing anymore, but I don't
really fit in there either because I am not having the horrible problems
that some of the parents of teens are having. It's kind of depressing to me.

I already have a small list of things to do differently with the next
kid, but I don't think I'm a horrible parent for not doing it one way
the first time around. I'm sure my daughter doesn't expect
perfection. One of the things I respect about my parents is that they
are honest about having made mistakes, but not regretting of decisions
made in terms of parenting. They did what was right and worked at the
time. Raising kids is a learning process, we're still teaching them ;-)

Oh no, I don't mean to portray that I am a horrible parent, because really I
don't feel like one. I think I have done pretty good with what information I
had at the time. I do wish I had the computer though when the girls were
babies. It would have helped so much for support because I had none.

Sue

"Chookie" wrote in message
I am not sure where you get this bit from. Who has implied that you made
the
worst mistake in the world (*)? I've seen a fair bit of "the doctors were
wrong" or "the recommendation was wrong" but I have never seen "the
parents

No one person. And no I am being very sarcastic when I say the worst
mistake. I feel like though, many parents feel the need to follow the AAP or
the WHO because for a lack of confidence in themselves to follow the baby's
lead.

My personal motto is, "Do your best and trust God for the rest". The
"best" I
mean is not perfection, but the best you could given the knowledge and
resources you had at the time. I'm pretty sure you would have done that
when
your girls were little -- if you didn't care, you wouldn't be here.

I like that and yes I try to keep that in my head.

(*) If a person thinks that feeding a child solids early is the worst
thing in
the world, they need to get out a bit more!

Oh I agree. We were just having a discussion on it that's all.

Sue

yes, kids usualy only start tasting foods at 6 months eating takes a
while and many mothers do not bother introducing foods(if they are
nursing) until a year old. much luck

Sue wrote:
"Chookie" wrote in message

I am not sure where you get this bit from. Who has implied that you made
the
worst mistake in the world (*)? I've seen a fair bit of "the doctors were
wrong" or "the recommendation was wrong" but I have never seen "the
parents


No one person. And no I am being very sarcastic when I say the worst
mistake. I feel like though, many parents feel the need to follow the AAP or
the WHO because for a lack of confidence in themselves to follow the baby's
lead.


I'm going to go off on a tangent here... I'm picking your post to reply
because I can, not because I think it applies to you, ok? I'm not really
picking on anyone, just stating facts.

My neighbour (american, husband in the military, currently stationed
here in germany, just for reference) had a baby girl in January.
C-section, 5 weeks early. At about 4 weeks old she fed that baby
applesauce. Yes, the tiny tiny jars available at the commissary, but
still, she fed her applesauce at 4 weeks. A baby that was technicaly -1
week old. And she thinks it's ok. In fact she thinks she had no other
choice. Yes, they have formula in the house, yes she is "breastfeeding"
(she claims to be bf but the baby gets an awful lot of bottles and I
haven't seen her latched on in weeks, so whatever.).

When I expressed my concern about feeding a 4 week old applesauce she
told me "Well, she was hungry. Besides, my other three all had cereal by
the time they were her age." "WHY?!" "Because formuly wasn't enough.
They were always hungry and WIC only pays for a certain amount of
formula an that stuff's expensive."

So, she feels like she was following the babies leads, because they were
always hungry and screaming and formuly was "not enough".
The woman in questin is now 27 and has 4 children. To say she's not
coping very well is the understatement of the century. But besides her
parenting style being the totally opposite of mine (I don't spank, Sam
doesn't get to watch more than an average of 45-60min of TV/day and that
includes weekend kids movies, I cook every day, and if I don't my
brother, who lives right next door, does, we hardly ever go out for
junkfood, he plays outside all day long if the weather is good enough,
he rides his bike every day, he visits his friends every day,...), I
don't think she sees breastfeeding as being enough. The baby has to have
a bottle of something, and if it's just so daddy can feed the baby.

For parents like that I wish there was some place I could call and have
a man with a mallet come to their house and beat some sense into them.
*cough* I mean I want a softspoken, gentle woman to come and have a
quiet chat with them...
Seriously, there's following the baby's lead and then there's stupidity.
It's just sometimes hard to tell the difference yourself. And I think
that's why some of the members of this newsgroup mention standards (AAP,
WHO, whatever) so often. So people who are unsure do get something to go
by other than instincts.

I just really really had to get that off my chest because it's been
bothering me so much. If I was pg with my first right now and didn't
know any better I'd probably think she was doing everything right, I
mean what are you going to do if the baby's always hungry and you don't
want her latched on 24/7 (ok, you don't want her latched on an hour
every three hours, in the morning, occasionally, during a growthspurt,
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH).

cu
nicole

"NL" wrote in message
For parents like that I wish there was some place I could call and have a
man with a mallet come to their house and beat some sense into them.
*cough* I mean I want a softspoken, gentle woman to come and have a quiet
chat with them...

LOL. I wonder where she gets her information? That's really too bad for the
baby. I certainly don't advocate feeding a baby anything other than
breastmilk or formula at least until four months and I am very much on board
with waiting until six months.

That's where the education of the doctors come in. If they are going to
change the standards of infant feeding, then for gosh sakes why are the
doctors not on board with that. They are on board with up-to-date
vaccinations. I definitely feel your pain. Feeding was my pet peeve and I
was determined to do it right because I saw so many people feeding early
solids and not understanding that the baby cannot handle it. I had never
heard of the WHO until I came to usenet, but I did know the AAP and never
really knew how "they" felt about feeding. I knew where they stood on SIDS
and things like that, but the doctor is who I got feeding information from
and some books, mainly Dr. Spock.

I just really really had to get that off my chest because it's been
bothering me so much. If I was pg with my first right now and didn't know
any better I'd probably think she was doing everything right, I mean what
are you going to do if the baby's always hungry and you don't want her
latched on 24/7 (ok, you don't want her latched on an hour every three
hours, in the morning, occasionally, during a growthspurt,
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH).

I didn't have usenet when the girls were babies, so I guess I did rely on
doctor's information, my mom's advice (not too much though), magazines, or
other sources. I wish I did have the computer though, it would have helped
so much to have the support.

Sue