Bullies at a birthday party

On Jul 8, 9:37 am, GoogleID wrote:
On Jul 8, 8:52 am, Vickie wrote:

What - are the parents going to *say* something to me or my husband?

Not sure what State you're in, but where I am, even the most well
intentioned pop in the nose can sometimes lead to arrest, regardless
of the age of the popper. A co-workers 16 yo son threw a punch at an
acquaintance at a party (story goes the acquaintance was trying to
steal his wallet), someone called police on their cell and it ended up
being expensive for my co-worker. :-(

Understand completely what you're saying about brats and parents. Am
amazed sometimes what I see parents let their kids get away with and
then the parents wonder why they have a monster on their hands.

Happy to hear he BIL was gracious!

Really, I had no idea an 11yo could go to jail or get fined for a
scuffle.
Vickie

Vickie wrote:
On Jul 8, 8:59 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Vickie wrote:
On Jul 8, 7:31 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Vickie wrote:
Once again, he took the high road, said *I'm outta here* and came on
home. He did the right thing in my view. My husband would like son
to pop the kid in the nose, and I am starting to lean that way too.
(Sorry non-violent types, just had my fill with this brat).
Don't go there. Regardless of your position on
whether it's morally justified or not, if your son pops
the other kid, ultimately, it's going to be your kid who
gets in trouble. Kids who do this stuff all the time are
sneaky. They know when no one's watching. They have a
story in mind to explain whatever happens. They're often
not above laying a bit of a trap for another kid. Your
kid probably isn't that sneaky, and the end result is
that heads will turn just in time to see him pop the
other kid, apparently unprovoked (and, of course, there
will be many people who say that no matter what the
other kid was doing, it didn't justify a violent response).
The end result is going to be worse off for your son.
I don't know Ericka. I understand what you're saying. But what
really would ultimately happen if my son gives him a good wallop.
What - are the parents going to *say* something to me or my husband?
So what? I have already had it with this kid's folks for letting him
get away with this stuff. If they want to go around and spread some
vicious rumors about us or my son, I can be just as vocal and clue
everyone in on what there son is and does. And how they are complete
dipsh*** as parents.
Okay, I know I am going overboard. Sorry Ericka. Just peeved.
Oh, I understand being peeved, and I understand
how attractive that option seems. I'm just suggesting from
experience that it often creates far more trouble than it's
worth. And once that rumor mill gets going, it's usually
a mistake to think you can control or direct it :-/

That's true. I suppose this boy will get his comeuppance sometime.

He most likely will, whether or not you're there
to see it. It's hard not to want the instant gratification,
though! ;-) I do think that most people eventually get their
just desserts.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Banty wrote:

On the other hand, there are times and there are times. Standing up physically
to a bully at the right time (and yes, that's publicly!) does do the trick very
often, and gains respect from other kids as well. Folks might not like that
fact, but kids aren't natural pacifists, even the ones that stay clear from the
whole scene.

It's happpened with me; it's happened with my son. Sometimes it's worth three
days' detention to put a long-standing problem out of the way.

It can be, but you have to be as smart about how you
play your hand as the bully is sneaky. And these days, in
some places the consequences are just too high. Detention
is one thing; suspension or expulsion is another.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Vickie wrote:
On Jul 8, 9:37 am, GoogleID wrote:
On Jul 8, 8:52 am, Vickie wrote:

What - are the parents going to *say* something to me or my husband?
Not sure what State you're in, but where I am, even the most well
intentioned pop in the nose can sometimes lead to arrest, regardless
of the age of the popper. A co-workers 16 yo son threw a punch at an
acquaintance at a party (story goes the acquaintance was trying to
steal his wallet), someone called police on their cell and it ended up
being expensive for my co-worker. :-(

Really, I had no idea an 11yo could go to jail or get fined for a
scuffle.

That's the sort of thing I mean. In many areas,
there have been movements to lower the age at which offenses
can be charged, to tighten the laws to cover what once would
have been nothing anyone would have gone to the authorities
for, to implement "zero tolerance" policies, etc. You can't
always take for granted that people will implement any of
these policies sensibly.

Best wishes,
Ericka

On Jul 8, 9:52 am, Vickie wrote:


Really, I had no idea an 11yo could go to jail or get fined for a
scuffle.


Sometimes. Known as "simple assault". And even though the assaultee
may have warranted the punch (or whatever), if the parents (or legal
guardian) of the assultee wishes to involve the police, it can get
messy, and expensive.

In article .com, GoogleID
says...

On Jul 8, 9:52 am, Vickie wrote:


Really, I had no idea an 11yo could go to jail or get fined for a
scuffle.


Sometimes. Known as "simple assault". And even though the assaultee
may have warranted the punch (or whatever), if the parents (or legal
guardian) of the assultee wishes to involve the police, it can get
messy, and expensive.


But keep in mind, if/when the bully becomes the assaultee, he (or she) can be
hauled up on simple assault charges too!

But it doesn't happen much as no one from the police to the judges care for
indiscriminate and trivial, even if strictly correct, application of laws to
cover kids' scuffles. Which is also why it's highly unlikely fighting back will
lead to all kinds of awful legal consequences. At the least, a rule not to
throw the first punch (at least first public punch) can be followed. The
payrunts pull the legal thang (and find out thereby where the bullying behavior
comes from), you then pull the legal thang too. Charges get dropped.

So I don't see this legal assault thing as a real reason not to fight back a
bully given no other real option. And sometimes, it is the only real option.

Banty

On Jul 9, 1:31 pm, Banty wrote:
In article .com,GoogleID
says...



On Jul 8, 9:52 am, Vickie wrote:

Really, I had no idea an 11yo could go to jail or get fined for a
scuffle.

Sometimes. Known as "simple assault". And even though the assaultee
may have warranted the punch (or whatever), if the parents (or legal
guardian) of the assultee wishes to involve the police, it can get
messy, and expensive.

But keep in mind, if/when the bully becomes the assaultee, he (or she) can be
hauled up on simple assault charges too!

But it doesn't happen much as no one from the police to the judges care for
indiscriminate and trivial, even if strictly correct, application of laws to
cover kids' scuffles. Which is also why it's highly unlikely fighting back will
lead to all kinds of awful legal consequences. At the least, a rule not to
throw the first punch (at least first public punch) can be followed. The
payrunts pull the legal thang (and find out thereby where the bullying behavior
comes from), you then pull the legal thang too. Charges get dropped.

So I don't see this legal assault thing as a real reason not to fight back a
bully given no other real option. And sometimes, it is the only real option.

Banty

Yahbut....who wants to incur the cost of legal crappolla and hassle
involved (taking time off to visit court, etc.)?

That punch can get expensive!

In article .com, GoogleID
says...

On Jul 9, 1:31 pm, Banty wrote:
In article .com,GoogleID
says...



On Jul 8, 9:52 am, Vickie wrote:

Really, I had no idea an 11yo could go to jail or get fined for a
scuffle.

Sometimes. Known as "simple assault". And even though the assaultee
may have warranted the punch (or whatever), if the parents (or legal
guardian) of the assultee wishes to involve the police, it can get
messy, and expensive.

But keep in mind, if/when the bully becomes the assaultee, he (or she) can be
hauled up on simple assault charges too!

But it doesn't happen much as no one from the police to the judges care for
indiscriminate and trivial, even if strictly correct, application of laws to
cover kids' scuffles. Which is also why it's highly unlikely fighting back will
lead to all kinds of awful legal consequences. At the least, a rule not to
throw the first punch (at least first public punch) can be followed. The
payrunts pull the legal thang (and find out thereby where the bullying behavior
comes from), you then pull the legal thang too. Charges get dropped.

So I don't see this legal assault thing as a real reason not to fight back a
bully given no other real option. And sometimes, it is the only real option.

Banty

Yahbut....who wants to incur the cost of legal crappolla and hassle
involved (taking time off to visit court, etc.)?

That punch can get expensive!



But it's unlikely. And, threat of a countersuit means it doesn't get to the
hassle.

Banty

Banty wrote:
In article .com, GoogleID
says...
On Jul 8, 9:52 am, Vickie wrote:

Really, I had no idea an 11yo could go to jail or get fined for a
scuffle.

Sometimes. Known as "simple assault". And even though the assaultee
may have warranted the punch (or whatever), if the parents (or legal
guardian) of the assultee wishes to involve the police, it can get
messy, and expensive.

But keep in mind, if/when the bully becomes the assaultee, he (or she) can be
hauled up on simple assault charges too!

That may be, but you're still embroiled in a painful,
and perhaps expensive, process. Not only that, but the consequences
to your child don't necessarily evaporate just because "he did
it too."

But it doesn't happen much as no one from the police to the judges care for
indiscriminate and trivial, even if strictly correct, application of laws to
cover kids' scuffles. Which is also why it's highly unlikely fighting back will
lead to all kinds of awful legal consequences.

It's not *likely*, but it is a risk. It does happen (witness
some recent cases in the news). There are a lot of possibilities.
It's possible that the punch misses the intended mark and does
significant damage instead of just a bruise. It's possible that
the parenting that allows a bully to happen might have something
in common with the parenting that always thinks bad outcomes
are someone else's fault. Obviously, where you are matters a
great deal. Laws vary, and enforcement varies. The likelihood
of a problem is very different in a region with strict laws and
enforcement on a mission to reduce youth violence and a region
with less strict laws and not much of a history of youth violence
driving an agenda.

At the least, a rule not to
throw the first punch (at least first public punch) can be followed.

That certainly helps--but it isn't always easy in the
heat of the moment to be keenly aware of surroundings and who
saw what.

The
payrunts pull the legal thang (and find out thereby where the bullying behavior
comes from), you then pull the legal thang too. Charges get dropped.

Maybe, maybe not.

So I don't see this legal assault thing as a real reason not to fight back a
bully given no other real option. And sometimes, it is the only real option.

I agree that it's not something that should be completely
off the table. You have to weigh the pros and cons. However,
weighing them out well takes a reasonable degree of maturing and
is quite a challenge for an adult, nevermind an 11yo.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"GoogleID" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 9, 1:31 pm, Banty wrote:
In article
.com,GoogleID
says...



On Jul 8, 9:52 am, Vickie wrote:

Really, I had no idea an 11yo could go to jail or get fined for a
scuffle.

Sometimes. Known as "simple assault". And even though the assaultee
may have warranted the punch (or whatever), if the parents (or legal
guardian) of the assultee wishes to involve the police, it can get
messy, and expensive.

But keep in mind, if/when the bully becomes the assaultee, he (or she)
can be
hauled up on simple assault charges too!

But it doesn't happen much as no one from the police to the judges care
for
indiscriminate and trivial, even if strictly correct, application of laws
to
cover kids' scuffles. Which is also why it's highly unlikely fighting
back will
lead to all kinds of awful legal consequences. At the least, a rule not
to
throw the first punch (at least first public punch) can be followed.
The
payrunts pull the legal thang (and find out thereby where the bullying
behavior
comes from), you then pull the legal thang too. Charges get dropped.

So I don't see this legal assault thing as a real reason not to fight
back a
bully given no other real option. And sometimes, it is the only real
option.

Banty

Yahbut....who wants to incur the cost of legal crappolla and hassle
involved (taking time off to visit court, etc.)?

That punch can get expensive!


As it was with my 8th grader, who had had enough of ignoring a bully's
teasing and verbal abuse, and finally shot back with an unacceptable epithet
(he called the kid a "wigger", which, frankly, he is). This kid pushed my
son into a column in front of the school, chipping his tooth. My son hit
back and gave him a bloody nose, at this point school security guards
stopped the fight.
Other kid got a 3-day out-of-school suspension for hitting first, my son got
a one-day OSS and we had a 300.00 dental bill to repair the chip. He hasn't
bothered my son since.