WDNNSCPS was Child Abuse is A Crime

WDNNSCPS (We Don Need No Steekin' CPS)

Kane's Komments

News and Commentary on national
and international child protection issues Kane

Kane: So whaddahyahthink douggie boy. Criminal Court or Civil family
court? How about you greegor?

Birthing Under The Influence
Oklahoma woman goes into labor after quaffing "Milwaukee's Best"

JULY 15--A pregnant Oklahoma woman who split a case of beer with her
boyfriend shortly before giving birth last month is facing felony child
neglect charges. Melissa Irene Tanner, a 37-year-old mother of seven,
had a blood alcohol content nearly four times the state's .08 limit,
according to the below probable cause affidavit. Tanner's baby, a girl
born June 30, had a BAC of .21, nearly three times the Oklahoma limit.
Tanner, who first told a nurse that she was unaware of the pregnancy,
was arrested and tossed into the Washington County lockup, where she is
being held in lieu of $30,000 bail. Tanner, pictured at right in a
booking photo, drank a case of beer a week during her pregnancy, and
apparently preferred "the cheap stuff," according to the affidavit. In
fact, a friend quoted by cops said that after the baby was born, she
asked Tanner what the girl was going to be named. Tanner, the friend
told deputies, replied, "Maybe Milwaukee's Best." .....
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...51tanner1.html


Kane: Yes, douggieboy we certainly want to move social work issues to
the purview of the police...they are so good at that sort of thing with
children's issues.

Three officers, trooper resign amid sex investigation

TUALATIN, Ore. - The Washington County district attorney's office
announced it will not press criminal charges against three Tualatin
police officers and one Oregon State Police trooper accused of having
sexual contact with a female teen Explorer about five years ago.

But all four men agreed to resign after investigators found a "high
degree of certainty" that contact occurred, the district attorney's
office said Wednesday.

The four will also relinquish their Oregon law enforcement
certifications from the Department of Public Safety Standards and
Training, which allows them to serve as sworn police officers in
Oregon. ..........
http://katu.com/stories/78406.html


Kane: Gee Doug, imagine, when you are discounting the incidents of
child murder by parents, how easy it would have been for this guy to
get away with it. I wonder how many other's do? Compared to foster
parents that is.

Man admits
suffocating infant son
By Debra Barayuga


A 37-year-old man who admitted to suffocating his year-old son is
facing 20 years in prison, with a mandatory minimum of six years and
eight months.

Tapelu Levu, an inmate at Halawa Correctional Facility, pleaded guilty
yesterday in Circuit Court to manslaughter in the death of Maava Souza.

Levu was indicted in September on a charge of second-degree murder,
which carries penalties of life imprisonment with the possibility of
parole.

In court yesterday, Levu initially called the July 21, 2002, incident
an accident and said that the child suffocated after Levu threw a
blanket over him and left the room.

Deputy Prosecutor Glenn Kim said that had the case gone to trial, the
state would have proved that the child was smothered or suffocated and
that the medical examiner had ruled that the boy's death was not an
accident. Souza died of asphyxia.

Upon questioning by Circuit Judge Michael Town, Levu haltingly
responded, "I admit that I went suffocate my son."......

[[[ The dual verb form is common in Island slang. "I went suffocate.."
just means "I suffocated..." Doesn't mean the speaker is stupid. Most
folks in Hawaii are multi lingual...usually english, plus a little of
their family's language of ethnic origin, and "pidgin." It's similar to
"I be going," in black urban slang. ]]]

http://starbulletin.com/2005/07/15/news/index10.html

Kane: So whaddahyahthink douggie boy. Criminal Court or Civil family
court? How about you greegor?

Hi, Kane,

Criminal court is where felonies are heard.


Birthing Under The Influence
Oklahoma woman goes into labor after quaffing "Milwaukee's Best"

JULY 15--A pregnant Oklahoma woman who split a case of beer with her
boyfriend shortly before giving birth last month is facing felony child
neglect charges. Melissa Irene Tanner, a 37-year-old mother of seven,
had a blood alcohol content nearly four times the state's .08 limit,
according to the below probable cause affidavit. Tanner's baby, a girl
born June 30, had a BAC of .21, nearly three times the Oklahoma limit.
Tanner, who first told a nurse that she was unaware of the pregnancy,
was arrested and tossed into the Washington County lockup, where she is
being held in lieu of $30,000 bail. Tanner, pictured at right in a
booking photo, drank a case of beer a week during her pregnancy, and
apparently preferred "the cheap stuff," according to the affidavit. In
fact, a friend quoted by cops said that after the baby was born, she
asked Tanner what the girl was going to be named. Tanner, the friend
told deputies, replied, "Maybe Milwaukee's Best." .....
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...51tanner1.html


Kane: Yes, douggieboy we certainly want to move social work issues to
the purview of the police...they are so good at that sort of thing with
children's issues.

The "we" would be inaccurate. You may want to move social work issues to
police, but I don't. I don't want police to do social work. I just think
social workers shouldn't be doing police work.

I would like to see police to do the investigative work trained to do so
that social workers can concentrate on doing the helping work they are
trained to do.

Apparently, state legislatures are increasingly coming to the same
conclusion.

Kane: Gee Doug, imagine, when you are discounting the incidents of
child murder by parents, how easy it would have been for this guy to
get away with it. I wonder how many other's do? Compared to foster
parents that is.

I have never discounted the incidence of child fatalities due to abuse and
neglect. I have pointed out that state CPS agencies report to NCCANDS that
fatalities due to abuse and neglect by foster carers is many times higher
than fatalities due to abuse and neglect by other caregivers, including
parents.

Secondly, the DA makes it clear in the article that you post that the father
would have been proven guilty if he had gone to trial. Obviously, the
murderer did NOT get away with it. So it wasn't "easy" to get away with.
He pleaded guilty.

"Deputy Prosecutor Glenn Kim said that had the case gone to trial, the
state would have proved that the child was smothered or suffocated and
that the medical examiner had ruled that the boy's death was not an
accident. Souza died of asphyxia."

Good investigation conducted by police who are trained to do so produces
evidence of the sort Prosecutor Kim feels confident will meet the beyond the
reasonable doubt theshold in court. Could a social worker have located and
properly weighed the same evidence? What do you think Kim would say?

Again, you will note that your articles all address cases where the
appropriate agency was used to do the investigation. The state did not find
the need to send the poor little darlings to parenting classes and anger
management therapy sessions. The state did not incarcerate the child
victims that survived. Instead, in all of these incidences, the perp was
incarcerated after people trained in investigation gathered the necessary
evidence. Child abuse is not a disease. Child abuse is a crime. Once
again, it was treated as such in the newsstories you share with us.

Have a great day!





Man admits
suffocating infant son
By Debra Barayuga


A 37-year-old man who admitted to suffocating his year-old son is
facing 20 years in prison, with a mandatory minimum of six years and
eight months.

Tapelu Levu, an inmate at Halawa Correctional Facility, pleaded guilty
yesterday in Circuit Court to manslaughter in the death of Maava Souza.

Levu was indicted in September on a charge of second-degree murder,
which carries penalties of life imprisonment with the possibility of
parole.

In court yesterday, Levu initially called the July 21, 2002, incident
an accident and said that the child suffocated after Levu threw a
blanket over him and left the room.

Deputy Prosecutor Glenn Kim said that had the case gone to trial, the
state would have proved that the child was smothered or suffocated and
that the medical examiner had ruled that the boy's death was not an
accident. Souza died of asphyxia.

Upon questioning by Circuit Judge Michael Town, Levu haltingly
responded, "I admit that I went suffocate my son."......

[[[ The dual verb form is common in Island slang. "I went suffocate.."
just means "I suffocated..." Doesn't mean the speaker is stupid. Most
folks in Hawaii are multi lingual...usually english, plus a little of
their family's language of ethnic origin, and "pidgin." It's similar to
"I be going," in black urban slang. ]]]

http://starbulletin.com/2005/07/15/news/index10.html

Doug wrote:
Kane: So whaddahyahthink douggie boy. Criminal Court or Civil family
court? How about you greegor?

Hi, Kane,

Criminal court is where felonies are heard.

Yes. Is all child abuse then felonious?

Criminal court is were historically misdemeanors are also heard.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...o ogle+Search

You mislead people by your coverup of where child abuse charges that by
CPS would be a civil matter and correctable in family court could go if
it's all moved to criminal court.

And you would be, obviously, allowing a great deal of abuse and neglect
to go unhindered because it just missed the severest levels of injury.
You are sick, sir. Very.

Birthing Under The Influence
Oklahoma woman goes into labor after quaffing "Milwaukee's Best"

JULY 15--A pregnant Oklahoma woman who split a case of beer with her
boyfriend shortly before giving birth last month is facing felony child
neglect charges. Melissa Irene Tanner, a 37-year-old mother of seven,
had a blood alcohol content nearly four times the state's .08 limit,
according to the below probable cause affidavit. Tanner's baby, a girl
born June 30, had a BAC of .21, nearly three times the Oklahoma limit.
Tanner, who first told a nurse that she was unaware of the pregnancy,
was arrested and tossed into the Washington County lockup, where she is
being held in lieu of $30,000 bail. Tanner, pictured at right in a
booking photo, drank a case of beer a week during her pregnancy, and
apparently preferred "the cheap stuff," according to the affidavit. In
fact, a friend quoted by cops said that after the baby was born, she
asked Tanner what the girl was going to be named. Tanner, the friend
told deputies, replied, "Maybe Milwaukee's Best." .....
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...51tanner1.html


Kane: Yes, douggieboy we certainly want to move social work issues to
the purview of the police...they are so good at that sort of thing with
children's issues.

The "we" would be inaccurate.

"We" are society.

You exclude yourself from society? I thought so.

You may want to move social work issues to
police, but I don't.

Yes you do. You have celebrated this very thing in some of your posts.
Florida is an example. And it did NOT reduce child abuse there, as the
media and the data shows.

I don't want police to do social work.

Nor should they. But they invariably will under your little sick plan.

Where did you get the idea that police are not enforcers of social
"norms" writ in to laws? You are dumber than you look....much.

I just think
social workers shouldn't be doing police work.

They don't. They investigate ALL abuse reported to them that meets the
criteria for investigation. Then....

Cases that warrant criminal prosecution is turned over to LE regularly.
We've discussed that repeatedly in this ng, you and I, so your claim
here points out your lies.

It is the rule, you lie about, that the flow runs the other direction
as well. CPS is often involved after the fact of a criminal
investigation by police. Sometimes to follow up on what police see as
not warranting a charge of a felony, and sometimes CPS taking the
children because the charge of a felony has taken the parent(s) out of
the child's lives temporarily.

You are perpetuating your own lies. Manipulating readers is propaganda,
not information.

I would like to see police to do the investigative work trained to do so
that social workers can concentrate on doing the helping work they are
trained to do.

The former already do, and the latter already do. Criminal cases go to
the cops, and cops routinely turn over civil matters of child abuse,
neglect, and endangerment to the CPS, which could use more social
workers if the funding was adequate to hire them.

Our problem, society's problem....and I like that you exclude yourself
from it so pointedly as you did in the opening, since you are hardly a
responsible member as you so demonstrate....is that they fail to devote
enough public resource to the issue in relation to its true scope, in
both size and severity.

A great deal of denial goes on until the crimes exceed the civil and
become the felonious.

Apparently, state legislatures are increasingly coming to the same
conclusion.

You'd like to think so. And you'd like to persuade the uninformed
reader here of that, but a close examination shows something a bit
different.

Kane: Gee Doug, imagine, when you are discounting the incidents of
child murder by parents, how easy it would have been for this guy to
get away with it. I wonder how many other's do? Compared to foster
parents that is.

I have never discounted the incidence of child fatalities due to abuse and
neglect.

You have done nothing but pretend that the only numbers, for comparison
and policy setting are those "collected," when LE and Child Protection
knows full well there are still vast numbers that go uncaught,
unreported, and without any intervention at all.

I have pointed out that state CPS agencies report to NCCANDS that
fatalities due to abuse and neglect by foster carers is many times higher
than fatalities due to abuse and neglect by other caregivers, including
parents.

You ignore that one population is under close and continuous scrutiny
while the other, by law and circumstances is hardly observed
individually. Ask a foster parent if they are under close and
continuous supervision by the state.

Secondly, the DA makes it clear in the article that you post that the father
would have been proven guilty if he had gone to trial. Obviously, the
murderer did NOT get away with it. So it wasn't "easy" to get away with.
He pleaded guilty.

Sure it was. He damn near did. And you would pretend that other parents
that do such things don't get away with it? He was "unfortunate" in
stumbling about like a boob.

"Deputy Prosecutor Glenn Kim said that had the case gone to trial, the
state would have proved that the child was smothered or suffocated and
that the medical examiner had ruled that the boy's death was not an
accident. Souza died of asphyxia."

R R R .... what a riot. A prosecutor claims he could win....before and
without the fact of a trial. Nothing new there is there?

Ever seen what a good defense attorney can do to "expert" witnesses?

Hell, I'd ask right off the bat: "Mr Forensic Specialist, could
smothering, suffocation, happen any other way to an unattended
child...say getting tangle in blankets around their head, and wedged
down between the wall and the bed?"

"Unnhh..unnhhh....unnhhh." Defense attorny, "Thank you Mr FS, that will
be all."

All this has nothing to do with the fact he could have easily have
staged something a bit smarter, like the step grandmother in Oregon did
recently, and NOT confess.

Many murderers aren't so stupid. And would have forced it to trial.

Good investigation conducted by police who are trained to do so produces
evidence of the sort Prosecutor Kim feels confident will meet the beyond the
reasonable doubt theshold in court.

Some are. You ignore that if all child abuse were to go to the police
for investigation the costs would be astronomical. Newbie cops aren't
detectives. Or were you unaware that they are the ones doing
investigations? ALL of them?

Could a social worker have located and
properly weighed the same evidence? What do you think Kim would say?

When do you see Social workers, and NOT the cops, investigating a
possible murder?

I think Kim would say that criminal cases come from CPS, and civil
cases go to CPS. And each is a speciality that does it best.

Just how stupid to you take the readers here to be, outside of greegor
and bobber the swift?

Show us where CPS is doing, without the police, investigation of
criminal felonies.

Again, you will note that your articles all address cases where the
appropriate agency was used to do the investigation.

That's right.

My point exactly and yet you pretend that this is not so...that CPS is
doing criminal investigations that are police matters.

As for what the public knows:

CPS cases that do not escalate to felony cases rarely are seen in the
media. They are, by journalistic standards, mundane, boring, and just
plain dirty dreary little stories of hapless human failure. Good for a
special now and then, but not enough blood (since they aren't felonies)
to warrant the coverage.

The state did not find
the need to send the poor little darlings to parenting classes and anger
management therapy sessions.

I don't recall a single instance where the murder of a child resulted
in CPS sending the perps to such classes and sessions...do you?

The state did not incarcerate the child
victims that survived.

In many instances children that survived do in fact go into foster care
temporarily. Do you consider those "incarcerated?" Same agency, same
foster homes. Tell us your view. 0:-

Instead, in all of these incidences,

You are lying again, or compromised mentally.

the perp was
incarcerated after people trained in investigation gathered the necessary
evidence.

And the same is true in those cases that started with CPS and were
turned over to LE for charges of criminal felony.

Child abuse is not a disease.

You are wrong. It, like a great deal of crime, (some criminalogists
claim ALL is disease, social disease) is in fact a social disease. Your
magical thinking, your errors in judgement are fully exposed with such
a statement. Child abuse is most certainly a disease. Sometimes it's
also a crime.

Child abuse is a crime.

Of course it is. That it is a disease does not preclude it being also a
crime.

And that is is a crime does not preclude it being also a disease.

More thinking error on your part, or a deliberate attempt again to
manipulate and mislead the reader into the simplistic either/or trap of
error in judgement.

I doubt that outside of the two previously mentioned, even the most
ardent opponents of CPS here would miss your little ploy above, and not
appreciate that someone as intelligent as you (hence it would be
deliberate, not an accident) would insult their intelligence so
cavalierly.

Once
again, it was treated as such in the newsstories you share with us.

Yes, there is crime that is a disease that when acted out produces
results that are so injurious that they must be prosecuted in criminal
court. That nether removes the fact it's a disease, nor does it stop
the court from sentencing the actors to rehabilitation services, as YOU
yourself once pointed out in one of our usual exchanges on this
subject.

Apparently the court thinks it's a disease and that rehabilitation is
an exceptable response along with punishment.

Have a great day!

Yes, I am having one.

I'm quite tired and sore from shoveling spent stable bedding into my
compost piles for four days. My thoughts as I rest today are these:

Why the hell do I work so hard when I could have simply had you and
your buddies here direct your energies and talents to doing what you do
so well, shoveling the horse****.

0:-

Man admits
suffocating infant son
By Debra Barayuga


A 37-year-old man who admitted to suffocating his year-old son is
facing 20 years in prison, with a mandatory minimum of six years and
eight months.

Tapelu Levu, an inmate at Halawa Correctional Facility, pleaded guilty
yesterday in Circuit Court to manslaughter in the death of Maava Souza.

Levu was indicted in September on a charge of second-degree murder,
which carries penalties of life imprisonment with the possibility of
parole.

In court yesterday, Levu initially called the July 21, 2002, incident
an accident and said that the child suffocated after Levu threw a
blanket over him and left the room.

Deputy Prosecutor Glenn Kim said that had the case gone to trial, the
state would have proved that the child was smothered or suffocated and
that the medical examiner had ruled that the boy's death was not an
accident. Souza died of asphyxia.

Upon questioning by Circuit Judge Michael Town, Levu haltingly
responded, "I admit that I went suffocate my son."......

[[[ The dual verb form is common in Island slang. "I went suffocate.."
just means "I suffocated..." Doesn't mean the speaker is stupid. Most
folks in Hawaii are multi lingual...usually english, plus a little of
their family's language of ethnic origin, and "pidgin." It's similar to
"I be going," in black urban slang. ]]]

http://starbulletin.com/2005/07/15/news/index10.html

Kane writes:

Kane: Yes, douggieboy we certainly want to move social work issues to
the purview of the police...they are so good at that sort of thing with
children's issues.

The "we" would be inaccurate.

"We" are society.

Hi, Kane,

....Then society does not want to move social work issues to the purview of
police. Child abuse is a crime. Crime comes under the purview of police.

You exclude yourself from society? I thought so.

No, it's just that you don't include all of society in your false statement
that it wants social work issues handled by police.

You may want to move social work issues to
police, but I don't.

Yes you do. You have celebrated this very thing in some of your posts.
Florida is an example. And it did NOT reduce child abuse there, as the
media and the data shows.

No, I don't. I want to move child abuse investigations from social service
workers to police, who are trained to investigate. Child abuse is a crime.
Cops investigate crime.

Florida is an example of police taking over the role of investigating child
abuse. Since we last discussed it, two more counties have moved to the
model. It has been very successful. Foster care populations have dropped
tremendously because children are much less likely to be wrongfully removed
from their homes.


They don't. They investigate ALL abuse reported to them that meets the
criteria for investigation. Then....

You are incorrect. CPS decidedly does NOT investigate all abuse reported to
them. Law enforcement either takes the lead in many investigations over CPS
or very often to the exclusion of CPS. Immediately.

Cases that warrant criminal prosecution is turned over to LE regularly.
We've discussed that repeatedly in this ng, you and I, so your claim
here points out your lies.

You are incorrect. Cases that warrant criminal investigation are often
immediately taken over by law enforcement prior to and often to the
exclusion of CPS involvement.


My point exactly and yet you pretend that this is not so...that CPS is
doing criminal investigations that are police matters.

To the contrary, it is made crystal clear in ALL of the articles that police
did the investigating. CPS is not mentioned.

The articles you regularly post are evidence that police are investigating
child abuse, as it should be.

Gee POOPer, you seem to be lagging behind. It seems to take forever for
you to catch up with my "non-support of foster parents" postings.

I wonder what foster parents themselves would say about what Wex, for
instance, or Ron, or myself post here?

My guess?

All foster related or linked to issues of important to foster parents.

In other words, you are making a perfect, and I mean precisely perfect,
pluperfect, fool of yourself.

Come on, what's holdin' you up today, besides your choker set
suspenders?

R R R R R R R

0:-

wrote:
Doug wrote:
Kane: So whaddahyahthink douggie boy. Criminal Court or Civil family
court? How about you greegor?

Hi, Kane,

Criminal court is where felonies are heard.

Yes. Is all child abuse then felonious?

Criminal court is were historically misdemeanors are also heard.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...o ogle+Search

You mislead people by your coverup of where child abuse charges that by
CPS would be a civil matter and correctable in family court could go if
it's all moved to criminal court.

And you would be, obviously, allowing a great deal of abuse and neglect
to go unhindered because it just missed the severest levels of injury.
You are sick, sir. Very.

Birthing Under The Influence
Oklahoma woman goes into labor after quaffing "Milwaukee's Best"

JULY 15--A pregnant Oklahoma woman who split a case of beer with her
boyfriend shortly before giving birth last month is facing felony child
neglect charges. Melissa Irene Tanner, a 37-year-old mother of seven,
had a blood alcohol content nearly four times the state's .08 limit,
according to the below probable cause affidavit. Tanner's baby, a girl
born June 30, had a BAC of .21, nearly three times the Oklahoma limit.
Tanner, who first told a nurse that she was unaware of the pregnancy,
was arrested and tossed into the Washington County lockup, where she is
being held in lieu of $30,000 bail. Tanner, pictured at right in a
booking photo, drank a case of beer a week during her pregnancy, and
apparently preferred "the cheap stuff," according to the affidavit. In
fact, a friend quoted by cops said that after the baby was born, she
asked Tanner what the girl was going to be named. Tanner, the friend
told deputies, replied, "Maybe Milwaukee's Best." .....
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...51tanner1.html


Kane: Yes, douggieboy we certainly want to move social work issues to
the purview of the police...they are so good at that sort of thing with
children's issues.

The "we" would be inaccurate.

"We" are society.

You exclude yourself from society? I thought so.

You may want to move social work issues to
police, but I don't.

Yes you do. You have celebrated this very thing in some of your posts.
Florida is an example. And it did NOT reduce child abuse there, as the
media and the data shows.

I don't want police to do social work.

Nor should they. But they invariably will under your little sick plan.

Where did you get the idea that police are not enforcers of social
"norms" writ in to laws? You are dumber than you look....much.

I just think
social workers shouldn't be doing police work.

They don't. They investigate ALL abuse reported to them that meets the
criteria for investigation. Then....

Cases that warrant criminal prosecution is turned over to LE regularly.
We've discussed that repeatedly in this ng, you and I, so your claim
here points out your lies.

It is the rule, you lie about, that the flow runs the other direction
as well. CPS is often involved after the fact of a criminal
investigation by police. Sometimes to follow up on what police see as
not warranting a charge of a felony, and sometimes CPS taking the
children because the charge of a felony has taken the parent(s) out of
the child's lives temporarily.

You are perpetuating your own lies. Manipulating readers is propaganda,
not information.

I would like to see police to do the investigative work trained to do so
that social workers can concentrate on doing the helping work they are
trained to do.

The former already do, and the latter already do. Criminal cases go to
the cops, and cops routinely turn over civil matters of child abuse,
neglect, and endangerment to the CPS, which could use more social
workers if the funding was adequate to hire them.

Our problem, society's problem....and I like that you exclude yourself
from it so pointedly as you did in the opening, since you are hardly a
responsible member as you so demonstrate....is that they fail to devote
enough public resource to the issue in relation to its true scope, in
both size and severity.

A great deal of denial goes on until the crimes exceed the civil and
become the felonious.

Apparently, state legislatures are increasingly coming to the same
conclusion.

You'd like to think so. And you'd like to persuade the uninformed
reader here of that, but a close examination shows something a bit
different.

Kane: Gee Doug, imagine, when you are discounting the incidents of
child murder by parents, how easy it would have been for this guy to
get away with it. I wonder how many other's do? Compared to foster
parents that is.

I have never discounted the incidence of child fatalities due to abuse and
neglect.

You have done nothing but pretend that the only numbers, for comparison
and policy setting are those "collected," when LE and Child Protection
knows full well there are still vast numbers that go uncaught,
unreported, and without any intervention at all.

I have pointed out that state CPS agencies report to NCCANDS that
fatalities due to abuse and neglect by foster carers is many times higher
than fatalities due to abuse and neglect by other caregivers, including
parents.

You ignore that one population is under close and continuous scrutiny
while the other, by law and circumstances is hardly observed
individually. Ask a foster parent if they are under close and
continuous supervision by the state.

Secondly, the DA makes it clear in the article that you post that the father
would have been proven guilty if he had gone to trial. Obviously, the
murderer did NOT get away with it. So it wasn't "easy" to get away with.
He pleaded guilty.

Sure it was. He damn near did. And you would pretend that other parents
that do such things don't get away with it? He was "unfortunate" in
stumbling about like a boob.

"Deputy Prosecutor Glenn Kim said that had the case gone to trial, the
state would have proved that the child was smothered or suffocated and
that the medical examiner had ruled that the boy's death was not an
accident. Souza died of asphyxia."

R R R .... what a riot. A prosecutor claims he could win....before and
without the fact of a trial. Nothing new there is there?

Ever seen what a good defense attorney can do to "expert" witnesses?

Hell, I'd ask right off the bat: "Mr Forensic Specialist, could
smothering, suffocation, happen any other way to an unattended
child...say getting tangle in blankets around their head, and wedged
down between the wall and the bed?"

"Unnhh..unnhhh....unnhhh." Defense attorny, "Thank you Mr FS, that will
be all."

All this has nothing to do with the fact he could have easily have
staged something a bit smarter, like the step grandmother in Oregon did
recently, and NOT confess.

Many murderers aren't so stupid. And would have forced it to trial.

Good investigation conducted by police who are trained to do so produces
evidence of the sort Prosecutor Kim feels confident will meet the beyond the
reasonable doubt theshold in court.

Some are. You ignore that if all child abuse were to go to the police
for investigation the costs would be astronomical. Newbie cops aren't
detectives. Or were you unaware that they are the ones doing
investigations? ALL of them?

Could a social worker have located and
properly weighed the same evidence? What do you think Kim would say?

When do you see Social workers, and NOT the cops, investigating a
possible murder?

I think Kim would say that criminal cases come from CPS, and civil
cases go to CPS. And each is a speciality that does it best.

Just how stupid to you take the readers here to be, outside of greegor
and bobber the swift?

Show us where CPS is doing, without the police, investigation of
criminal felonies.

Again, you will note that your articles all address cases where the
appropriate agency was used to do the investigation.

That's right.

My point exactly and yet you pretend that this is not so...that CPS is
doing criminal investigations that are police matters.

As for what the public knows:

CPS cases that do not escalate to felony cases rarely are seen in the
media. They are, by journalistic standards, mundane, boring, and just
plain dirty dreary little stories of hapless human failure. Good for a
special now and then, but not enough blood (since they aren't felonies)
to warrant the coverage.

The state did not find
the need to send the poor little darlings to parenting classes and anger
management therapy sessions.

I don't recall a single instance where the murder of a child resulted
in CPS sending the perps to such classes and sessions...do you?

The state did not incarcerate the child
victims that survived.

In many instances children that survived do in fact go into foster care
temporarily. Do you consider those "incarcerated?" Same agency, same
foster homes. Tell us your view. 0:-

Instead, in all of these incidences,

You are lying again, or compromised mentally.

the perp was
incarcerated after people trained in investigation gathered the necessary
evidence.

And the same is true in those cases that started with CPS and were
turned over to LE for charges of criminal felony.

Child abuse is not a disease.

You are wrong. It, like a great deal of crime, (some criminalogists
claim ALL is disease, social disease) is in fact a social disease. Your
magical thinking, your errors in judgement are fully exposed with such
a statement. Child abuse is most certainly a disease. Sometimes it's
also a crime.

Child abuse is a crime.

Of course it is. That it is a disease does not preclude it being also a
crime.

And that is is a crime does not preclude it being also a disease.

More thinking error on your part, or a deliberate attempt again to
manipulate and mislead the reader into the simplistic either/or trap of
error in judgement.

I doubt that outside of the two previously mentioned, even the most
ardent opponents of CPS here would miss your little ploy above, and not
appreciate that someone as intelligent as you (hence it would be
deliberate, not an accident) would insult their intelligence so
cavalierly.

Once
again, it was treated as such in the newsstories you share with us.

Yes, there is crime that is a disease that when acted out produces
results that are so injurious that they must be prosecuted in criminal
court. That nether removes the fact it's a disease, nor does it stop
the court from sentencing the actors to rehabilitation services, as YOU
yourself once pointed out in one of our usual exchanges on this
subject.

Apparently the court thinks it's a disease and that rehabilitation is
an exceptable response along with punishment.

Have a great day!

Yes, I am having one.

I'm quite tired and sore from shoveling spent stable bedding into my
compost piles for four days. My thoughts as I rest today are these:

Why the hell do I work so hard when I could have simply had you and
your buddies here direct your energies and talents to doing what you do
so well, shoveling the horse****.

0:-

Man admits
suffocating infant son
By Debra Barayuga


A 37-year-old man who admitted to suffocating his year-old son is
facing 20 years in prison, with a mandatory minimum of six years and
eight months.

Tapelu Levu, an inmate at Halawa Correctional Facility, pleaded guilty
yesterday in Circuit Court to manslaughter in the death of Maava Souza.

Levu was indicted in September on a charge of second-degree murder,
which carries penalties of life imprisonment with the possibility of
parole.

In court yesterday, Levu initially called the July 21, 2002, incident
an accident and said that the child suffocated after Levu threw a
blanket over him and left the room.

Deputy Prosecutor Glenn Kim said that had the case gone to trial, the
state would have proved that the child was smothered or suffocated and
that the medical examiner had ruled that the boy's death was not an
accident. Souza died of asphyxia.

Upon questioning by Circuit Judge Michael Town, Levu haltingly
responded, "I admit that I went suffocate my son."......

[[[ The dual verb form is common in Island slang. "I went suffocate.."
just means "I suffocated..." Doesn't mean the speaker is stupid. Most
folks in Hawaii are multi lingual...usually english, plus a little of
their family's language of ethnic origin, and "pidgin." It's similar to
"I be going," in black urban slang. ]]]

http://starbulletin.com/2005/07/15/news/index10.html

Doug wrote:
Kane writes:

Kane: Yes, douggieboy we certainly want to move social work issues to
the purview of the police...they are so good at that sort of thing with
children's issues.

The "we" would be inaccurate.

"We" are society.

Hi, Kane,

...Then society does not want to move social work issues to the purview of
police.

What it "wants" and what will happen, mostly out of being misinformed
by curs such as you, is not the same.

Child abuse is a crime.

Some crime does. Some crime comes under civil law. The police may not
even see it. That is the point of CPS. To keep it from becoming, as you
pointed out in an earlier post, felonious.

Crime comes under the purview of police.

You intend doing away with all civil matters then?

You exclude yourself from society? I thought so.

No, it's just that you don't include all of society in your false statement
that it wants social work issues handled by police.

Yes, I include all society, and all society is not aware of the issue
and makes not choice at all, knowingly.

There is nothing false in my statement defining and clarifying what you
are up to.

You may want to move social work issues to
police, but I don't.

Yes you do. You have celebrated this very thing in some of your posts.
Florida is an example. And it did NOT reduce child abuse there, as the
media and the data shows.

No, I don't.

Of course you do. You often say things that are in fact not true, even
for yourself. You are deluded, possibly delusional as well, it appears.


It doesn't take genius to see that cops already DO social work....ask
them about domestic violence calls, and they will have to do a good
deal of the same kind of work as they do on those calls if they are
going to be called on all child abuse cases that would have gone to
CPS.

Stop deluding yourself.

I want to move child abuse investigations from social service
workers to police, who are trained to investigate.

Some police, not many, are trained to investigate child abuse.
Different crimes require different investigative expertise in different
areas. Ask a cop.

And CPS workers are trained to investigate. You have lied about that in
the past. You can stop now.

They are so well trained they even know when to stop and turn a case
over to a police detective for investigation.

Child abuse is a crime.
Cops investigate crime.

Not all child abuse is a felony. Not all child abuse rises to the level
of the perp being a felon.

Florida is an example of police taking over the role of investigating child
abuse.

Yes, I know. And you are lying again below.

Since we last discussed it, two more counties have moved to the
model.

That is the only truth in this statement.

It has been very successful. Foster care populations have dropped
tremendously because children are much less likely to be wrongfully removed
from their homes.

No, that is precisely NOT the reason foster care populations have
dropped. Clearing of cases is the reason for that. And you know it.

And in the counties involved MORE child abuse is being substantiated.
You are bluffing, again.

They don't. They investigate ALL abuse reported to them that meets the
criteria for investigation. Then....

You are incorrect. CPS decidedly does NOT investigate all abuse reported to
them.

You'd even lie one sentence away from what I actually said? That takes
balls.

I said, "ALL abuse reported to them that meets the criteria for
investigation."

Liar.

Law enforcement either takes the lead in many investigations over CPS
or very often to the exclusion of CPS. Immediately.

Where did I say otherwise?

I said, and quite clearly, they each take the lead, and each is known
to turn appropriate cases over to the other. If cops find a child in a
situation as they make an arrest, for instance, where there is no
evidence apparent to them that a felony against the child has taken
place they often do turn the child and the of course a "case" over to
CPS.

Often CPS in investigating run across evidence...say in the disclosure
of a sexual molestation, where they turn the case over to the police to
investigate or work in tandem (police foremost....tandem means one
behind the other).

Stop lying to people, Doug.

You aren't fooling anyone here but the fools.

Cases that warrant criminal prosecution is turned over to LE regularly.
We've discussed that repeatedly in this ng, you and I, so your claim
here points out your lies.

You are incorrect.

No, I am not incorrect. If the evidence was not apparent until an
investigation was underway by CPS, and that is often the case in those
that the police are called in on, then there would be no reason for the
police to be the initial investigators. Your illogic is being
hysterical.

Cases that warrant criminal investigation are often
immediately taken over by law enforcement prior to and often to the
exclusion of CPS involvement.

Yes, that is correct, but in no way negates my statement. When CPS
opens a case, and there is no evidence in the allegation call to
suggest strong likelihood of a felony, CPS will investigate. If such
evidence shows up, they will turn the case over to the police,
sometimes still being part of the investigative team. Please stop this
lying Doug. It's unfair to confuse the reader that might not know your
history.

My point exactly and yet you pretend that this is not so...that CPS is
doing criminal investigations that are police matters.

To the contrary, it is made crystal clear in ALL of the articles that police
did the investigating. CPS is not mentioned.

That was not the discussion underway, Doug. This is what you do when
cornered and exposed as wrong....you immediately try a weasel dodge.
How sick.

The articles were simply ONE of the possibilities. We have plainly
moved on to discussing more than the articles, wouldn't you say? 0:-

The articles you regularly post are evidence that police are investigating
child abuse, as it should be.

And not evidence that CPS hasn't in fact initiated investigation in
response to an allegation call. Many are just that....in fact we just
went around about one...where a worker called in the police over
suspicion that five small children had been left alone.

I suspect that worker was there to "investigate" Doug, and you know
it's true.

Your capacity to twist and turn and avoid the truth, and that you are
misleading and misdirecting is becoming legendary.

Moving child abuse and neglect to exclusive LE investigations is going
to be one of the biggest fiascos ever. Even the cops in the florida
counties did NOT have the training, and said so with DOLLARS, and had
to hire trained people to assist....guess who those trained
investigators were? Why case workers, of course.

You lost this one long ago, but like a snake with it's head cut off,
you will writing and twist until sundown.

0:-

Doug wrote:
Kane writes:

Kane: Yes, douggieboy we certainly want to move social work issues to
the purview of the police...they are so good at that sort of thing w=
ith
children's issues.

The "we" would be inaccurate.

"We" are society.

Hi, Kane,

...Then society does not want to move social work issues to the purview of
police. Child abuse is a crime. Crime comes under the purview of police.

You exclude yourself from society? I thought so.

No, it's just that you don't include all of society in your false stateme=
nt
that it wants social work issues handled by police.

You may want to move social work issues to
police, but I don't.

Yes you do. You have celebrated this very thing in some of your posts.
Florida is an example. And it did NOT reduce child abuse there, as the
media and the data shows.

No, I don't. I want to move child abuse investigations from social servi=
ce
workers to police, who are trained to investigate. Child abuse is a crim=
e=2E
Cops investigate crime.

Florida is an example of police taking over the role of investigating chi=
ld
abuse. Since we last discussed it, two more counties have moved to the
model. It has been very successful. Foster care populations have dropped
tremendously because children are much less likely to be wrongfully remov=
ed
from their homes.


They don't. They investigate ALL abuse reported to them that meets the
criteria for investigation. Then....

You are incorrect. CPS decidedly does NOT investigate all abuse reported=
to
them. Law enforcement either takes the lead in many investigations over =
CPS
or very often to the exclusion of CPS. Immediately.

Cases that warrant criminal prosecution is turned over to LE regularly.
We've discussed that repeatedly in this ng, you and I, so your claim
here points out your lies.

You are incorrect. Cases that warrant criminal investigation are often
immediately taken over by law enforcement prior to and often to the
exclusion of CPS involvement.

You are abysmally ignorant or deliberately lying and misleading people:

http://www.ago.state.nm.us/divs/pros...childabuse.htm

" Child Abuse Task Force- The office coordinates and hosts the NM Child
Abuse Task Force. The task force consists of multidisciplinary
professionals whose purpose is to facilitate consistent results in
cases of serious child abuse cases throughout the State. The task force
supports the multidisciplinary approach to the investigation of child
abuse cases and the adoption of uniform protocols in each
jurisdiction........"

"We will dispatch a trained child abuse investigator when a law
enforcement agency requests assistance in investigating a child death.
We also have on staff several attorneys with specialized child abuse
training and experience that are available to co-counsel cases with
local prosecutors.

Training- Our office actively participates with various groups in
sponsoring and organizing training for prosecutors, investigators, law
enforcement, social workers and other disciplines. Training topics
include child abuse reporting, shaken-baby cases, sexual abuse
investigation, and child sexual exploitation. We will provide an
investigator or attorney with specialized expertise to present locally
on these and other topics."

[[[ The following refers to one of the many CARES or similar units all
across the United States...and not all investigators are LE...in fact
often there is NO LE involvement. ]]]

http://www.childadvocacycenter.org/about.htm

"ABOUT OUR CENTER

In 1995 a small group of professionals and community volunteers met to
consider a better, more sensitive way to respond to children in
Southwest Missouri who were suspected victims of sexual or physical
abuse. They wanted to give children a safe, easy place to talk about
difficult, frightening things.

The Child Advocacy Center is a place where a comprehensive coordinated
approach is taken in response to allegations of child abuse. Children
who may have been abused or who are witness to violent crime, are
referred to our Center by the Juvenile Office, Division of Family
Services or law enforcement, for a videotaped forensic interview,
C=2EA.R.E. and/or S.A.F.E. exam......"

"At the CAC, specially trained child interviewers, investigators, law
enforcement and medical personnel form a team to make decisions about
investigation, treatment and prosecution of child abuse cases. This
approach proposes that children receive child-focused services in a
child-friendly environment-one in which the child's needs come
first."

As for your great successes in Florida by the use of LE for
investigations...they apparently don't even know when the are looking
at an abuse situation:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localne...er/2005/06/30=
/s1b_abuse_0630.html

"
Panel praises child-abuse investigation teams

By Kathleen Chapman

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Thursday, June 30, 2005

The death of 9-year-old Michael Bernard shocked community leaders in
Palm Beach County.

Nobody had paid much notice to the boy with cerebral palsy before he
suffocated in a dirty room, trapped in his bed after his parents left
for 17 hours.
More local news
Latest breaking news, photos and all of today's Post stories.
=B7 State news
Storm 2005: Hurricane news
=B7 Sound off in the forum
=B7 Columnists
=B7 Crime, live scanners
=B7 Photos | Special reports
=B7 Weather | Traffic | Obituaries

How, they asked, could child-abuse investigators not know that his
father had been arrested 37 times? How could law enforcement go to the
boy's house 15 times in one year but fail to save him?

They responded in 2002 with a plan for cooperation between law
enforcement and social workers they say is unique in Florida and maybe
the country.

More than 30 law enforcement agencies in Palm Beach County pledged to
share information, make child abuse a priority and investigate every
child-abuse claim along with a social worker from the Department of
Children and Families.

Children are safer today as a result, a grand jury concluded in a
report released Wednesday. But not all local police departments are
living up to the spirit of the agreement, they wrote.

Road patrol officers aren't all trained in child-abuse investigations
and don't always make the calls a priority. And few officers use or
even have access to a database that was supposed to allow agencies to
share their histories of involvement with local families.

"As pleased as this Grand Jury is with the dedication displayed by many
members of the law enforcement and child welfare communities," members
wrote, "this Grand Jury is dismayed by the lack of commitment shown by
others."

Since the agreement in 2002, Palm Beach County has been the only place
in the state where two investigators - one from law enforcement, one
from DCF - respond to every allegation of child abuse.

In most other counties, DCF child-abuse investigators call law
enforcement only if they suspect a crime or want extra protection,
while in a few places, like Broward County, sheriff's offices conduct
all investigations under contract with the state.

Leaders in Palm Beach County took a different approach. The social
worker helps the family and decides whether the children should be
taken into foster care, while the law enforcement officer looks for
evidence of a crime.

"What I wanted to see was two sets of eyes looking at the home," State
Attorney Barry Krischer said.

Ted Simpkins, who heads DCF in Palm Beach County, said abuse
investigators, many of whom are young or inexperienced, are grateful
for the help. Law enforcement officers give them "the comfort of
knowing you're not going alone," he said.

In February, Krischer asked the grand jury for a report on the county's
progress. Assistant State Attorney Lanna Belohlavek presented more than
20 witnesses, including law enforcement, social workers, abuse hot line
staff and dispatchers.

The jurors found that though all law enforcement agencies search common
arrest records, they are still separate fiefdoms when it comes to
incident reports about fights, disturbances and other calls. Few
officers are using or even have access to a database designed to help
the county's 30 law enforcement agencies share information about family
histories.

The jury also found the training for road patrol officers in
child-abuse issues inadequate. The Criminal Justice Academy, which
trains law enforcement recruits at Palm Beach Community College, gives
"minimal" information about responding to child-abuse allegations,
jurors wrote.

"In light of the professed commitment... by all law enforcement
agencies in Palm Beach County and the fact that these recruits will
eventually be the first responders to allegations of abuse and neglect,
this is incomprehensible," the report stated.

Police departments in Riviera Beach, Ocean Ridge, Jupiter Inlet Colony
and South Palm Beach failed to train road patrol officers for two
years, until after they were called to testify before the grand jury
this spring, jurors found.

"One untrained law enforcement officer in Palm Beach County may put a
child at risk and this is unacceptable," they wrote.

Riviera Beach Police Chief Clarence Williams said Wednesday that he
hadn't seen the report. But his agency did send every detective and a
specialist to a countywide training seminar two years ago and followed
up with training for nearly all road patrol officers this spring, he
said.

Clay Walker, who has led the law enforcement effort for nearly three
years, said he got involved because officers weren't doing enough to
keep kids safe. Simply blaming DCF for Michael's death seemed unfair,
he said, when police had made more than a dozen visits to the house.

"I thought, 'We're crucifying DCF in this child's death. But where is
the responsibility on the police department?' "

In a way, the countywide accord is an extension of Walker's marriage:
he's the police chief of Manalapan and his wife once supervised
child-abuse investigators for the state.

It has now been nearly three years since the death of a child with a
history of abuse grabbed headlines in Palm Beach County, and Walker
believes that is a sign the agreement is working. He hopes the
community will continue its commitment, even as public attention shifts
to other dangers like sex offenders and gang violence.

"If we were to say this is not the hot-button issue, let's walk
away.... That would be a huge mistake for all of us," he said."

How, Douggieboy, could you have missed all this. And confine yourself
to just mentioning a few counties....when most of Florida is on another
track, and those I approve of?

Tsk.

And in the following you'll see, if you can read, and you are honest,
that indeed police are being ASSIGNED social work as part of their
investigation of child abuse. So much for your claim that society
doesn't want to move more social work to police investigators.

You'll also see that there is a clearly stated belief that child abuse
is more than any single agency can handle.

http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/162425.txt

You got balls, Douggieboy, but not much else.

0:-



My point exactly and yet you pretend that this is not so...that CPS is
doing criminal investigations that are police matters.

To the contrary, it is made crystal clear in ALL of the articles that pol=
ice
did the investigating. CPS is not mentioned.

The articles you regularly post are evidence that police are investigating
child abuse, as it should be.

The time has come for a guide on how to post in
Appletalk.

1 :: Read the posts in the topic
Read carefully through the question and all replies so
that you are making a pertinent comment on the thread
topic, not just some random garbage. In addition, if
what you are about to post already has been posted,
don't post it - unless you can give additional
information about it.

2 :: Think before you post
Does what you are about to post make sense? Is anybody
asking to know about it? Don't post useless stuff just
to gain a few posts.

3 :: Do a forum search before posting a new topic
It is much better to re-use old topics, even if months
old, than to start a new topic for everything. The more
topics there are, the harder the forum search will be
to use. Duplicate topics can cause confusion, and
should be avoided.

4 :: Check your facts
The best way to avoid being flamed is to be right. If
you're not certain on what you're about to post, Google
around and check the facts. No-one will listen to you
if you keep getting things wrong.

5 :: Check your language
Bad grammar, spelling and layout is an easy way to get
flamed. Always starting sentences with a capital
letter, spelling out full words and ending it with a
full stop, makes a significant difference to the
overall quality and legibility of the Appletalk forum.
Expressing your question clearly and well is important;
if you write like you're illiterate you will very
likely be ignored.

6 :: Report inappropriate posts
Appletalk Australia prides itself on being a friendly,
easy going forum with little need for intervention from
it's moderators. But that doesn't mean we turn a blind
eye to everything. If you believe that you are being
harassed, verbally abused or feel a post is
inappropriate, please report it to a moderator.

And finally, but most important:

7 :: If you don't have anything to say, don't say it
If a person posts hundreds of posts just saying "LOL",
"I have a luverly bunch of coconuts" or a few smileys,
nobody is going to take that person seriously. For the
people that use Appletalk forums, respect comes from
post content, not post count, so don't spam to gain
respect, it has the opposite effect.

JB
19/03/05 edit: can't spell
(Mods: feel free to edit as required)

"Doug" wrote in message
...
Kane writes:

Kane: Yes, douggieboy we certainly want to move
social work issues to
the purview of the police...they are so good at
that sort of thing with
children's issues.

The "we" would be inaccurate.

"We" are society.

Hi, Kane,

...Then society does not want to move social work
issues to the purview of police. Child abuse is a
crime. Crime comes under the purview of police.

You exclude yourself from society? I thought so.

No, it's just that you don't include all of society
in your false statement that it wants social work
issues handled by police.

You may want to move social work issues to
police, but I don't.

Yes you do. You have celebrated this very thing in
some of your posts.
Florida is an example. And it did NOT reduce child
abuse there, as the
media and the data shows.

No, I don't. I want to move child abuse
investigations from social service workers to police,
who are trained to investigate. Child abuse is a
crime. Cops investigate crime.

Florida is an example of police taking over the role
of investigating child abuse. Since we last
discussed it, two more counties have moved to the
model. It has been very successful. Foster care
populations have dropped tremendously because
children are much less likely to be wrongfully
removed from their homes.


They don't. They investigate ALL abuse reported to
them that meets the
criteria for investigation. Then....

You are incorrect. CPS decidedly does NOT
investigate all abuse reported to them. Law
enforcement either takes the lead in many
investigations over CPS or very often to the
exclusion of CPS. Immediately.

Cases that warrant criminal prosecution is turned
over to LE regularly.
We've discussed that repeatedly in this ng, you and
I, so your claim
here points out your lies.

You are incorrect. Cases that warrant criminal
investigation are often immediately taken over by law
enforcement prior to and often to the exclusion of
CPS involvement.


My point exactly and yet you pretend that this is
not so...that CPS is
doing criminal investigations that are police
matters.

To the contrary, it is made crystal clear in ALL of
the articles that police did the investigating. CPS
is not mentioned.

The articles you regularly post are evidence that
police are investigating child abuse, as it should
be.

When researching a problem, search engines frequently
will list forums as a resource. Take a good look at
these forums, not only for answers to your current, and
possibly future questions, but as networking
opportunities. Where else will we get to meet our peers
on the 'net?

Joining a Forum is easy. Unless you have been a past
abuser of the Forum, it is simply a matter of
registering and signing-up.

Familiarize yourself with the forum before doing any
posting. Read the rules - and abide by them. Good
Manners are Good Business.

The major purpose of a forum is sharing knowledge. Do
not provide answers to posted questions privately (by
email to a poster). Do not reply by email to someone
who has given an answer that brings up other questions.
This denies the answer, and perhaps more importantly,
the development of the answer to other members. It can
also be rude to link to other forums in your answer or
in your signature as it confuses people as to where
they have posted their questions. The information is
easily posted to the forum, rather than directing
others to a completely different website to read one
post.

Many forums have a range of emoticons or Avatars for
the use of their members. This eliminates the need for
capitalization to make a point. A message that is
delivered in capitals is considered "shouting" or
"flaming" on the internet and is considered rude.

While your post to the forum is available to the group
as a whole, you should generally use the name of the
person to whose comment you are responding for two
reasons.

1) It makes a better impression. You are trying to
expand your network as well as perfect your skills.

2) It focuses you on the fact that there is a real
person on the other end of your message. Too often, we
feel an anonymity on the internet and respond in ways
that we would not respond person to person. If
anything, we need to be kinder on the Internet. It is
fast paced. We tend to forget that once it is written -
it is always there.

Do not clog the forum with repetition, subjects that
are not pertinent, long personal anecdotes, or
inappropriate language.

Many forums call for critiques from members on a
particular project. This is a wonderful learning tool
if handled properly. Remember, this is a learning
process. If criticism is too harsh, someone may be
dissuaded from presenting his or her project for
criticism. If criticism is not honest, no one will
learn. Both extremes defeat the purpose of the forum.

If you are being critiqued: Do not take criticism
personally. Evaluate it and decide if you can use it.
If you can't, then put it totally out of your mind.

If you are critiquing, unless you can offer an
improvement or substitution that you feel would benefit
the project, do not comment. (Others will.) Never
comment on a subject outside of the forum. (example: if
the forum deals with website coding, do not comment on
the content or the graphics of a website.)

Do not, at any time, post something on a forum that
would be embarrassing or personal in nature.

"Give back" to your new community and practice making
it look easy.

Forums generally have a constant influx of "newbie"
participants. If you have done well in responding to a
particular problem - explained the answer clearly and
simply - keep the answer, it will be needed again.
Better yet, if your Forum has archives - keep a note of
the location of your answer and respond with a
direction to that archived material.

As it is difficult to know your internet audience in a
forum - and in the interest of appearing professional -
this is one place where humor is best avoided or
'gentled'.

Most of all, enjoy meeting new people on the net who
have the same interests that you do. After all, they
will love meeting you - you are SO polite!! (Smile)


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wrote in message
oups.com...


Doug wrote:
Kane writes:

Kane: Yes, douggieboy we certainly want to move
social work issues to
the purview of the police...they are so good at
that sort of thing with
children's issues.

The "we" would be inaccurate.

"We" are society.

Hi, Kane,

...Then society does not want to move social work
issues to the purview of
police.

What it "wants" and what will happen, mostly out of
being misinformed
by curs such as you, is not the same.

Child abuse is a crime.

Some crime does. Some crime comes under civil law.
The police may not
even see it. That is the point of CPS. To keep it
from becoming, as you
pointed out in an earlier post, felonious.

Crime comes under the purview of police.

You intend doing away with all civil matters then?

You exclude yourself from society? I thought so.

No, it's just that you don't include all of society
in your false statement
that it wants social work issues handled by police.

Yes, I include all society, and all society is not
aware of the issue
and makes not choice at all, knowingly.

There is nothing false in my statement defining and
clarifying what you
are up to.

You may want to move social work issues to
police, but I don't.

Yes you do. You have celebrated this very thing in
some of your posts.
Florida is an example. And it did NOT reduce child
abuse there, as the
media and the data shows.

No, I don't.

Of course you do. You often say things that are in
fact not true, even
for yourself. You are deluded, possibly delusional as
well, it appears.


It doesn't take genius to see that cops already DO
social work....ask
them about domestic violence calls, and they will
have to do a good
deal of the same kind of work as they do on those
calls if they are
going to be called on all child abuse cases that
would have gone to
CPS.

Stop deluding yourself.

I want to move child abuse investigations from
social service
workers to police, who are trained to investigate.

Some police, not many, are trained to investigate
child abuse.
Different crimes require different investigative
expertise in different
areas. Ask a cop.

And CPS workers are trained to investigate. You have
lied about that in
the past. You can stop now.

They are so well trained they even know when to stop
and turn a case
over to a police detective for investigation.

Child abuse is a crime.
Cops investigate crime.

Not all child abuse is a felony. Not all child abuse
rises to the level
of the perp being a felon.

Florida is an example of police taking over the role
of investigating child
abuse.

Yes, I know. And you are lying again below.

Since we last discussed it, two more counties have
moved to the
model.

That is the only truth in this statement.

It has been very successful. Foster care
populations have dropped
tremendously because children are much less likely
to be wrongfully removed
from their homes.

No, that is precisely NOT the reason foster care
populations have
dropped. Clearing of cases is the reason for that.
And you know it.

And in the counties involved MORE child abuse is
being substantiated.
You are bluffing, again.

They don't. They investigate ALL abuse reported to
them that meets the
criteria for investigation. Then....

You are incorrect. CPS decidedly does NOT
investigate all abuse reported to
them.

You'd even lie one sentence away from what I actually
said? That takes
balls.

I said, "ALL abuse reported to them that meets the
criteria for
investigation."

Liar.

Law enforcement either takes the lead in many
investigations over CPS
or very often to the exclusion of CPS. Immediately.

Where did I say otherwise?

I said, and quite clearly, they each take the lead,
and each is known
to turn appropriate cases over to the other. If cops
find a child in a
situation as they make an arrest, for instance, where
there is no
evidence apparent to them that a felony against the
child has taken
place they often do turn the child and the of course
a "case" over to
CPS.

Often CPS in investigating run across evidence...say
in the disclosure
of a sexual molestation, where they turn the case
over to the police to
investigate or work in tandem (police
foremost....tandem means one
behind the other).

Stop lying to people, Doug.

You aren't fooling anyone here but the fools.

Cases that warrant criminal prosecution is turned
over to LE regularly.
We've discussed that repeatedly in this ng, you
and I, so your claim
here points out your lies.

You are incorrect.

No, I am not incorrect. If the evidence was not
apparent until an
investigation was underway by CPS, and that is often
the case in those
that the police are called in on, then there would be
no reason for the
police to be the initial investigators. Your illogic
is being
hysterical.

Cases that warrant criminal investigation are often
immediately taken over by law enforcement prior to
and often to the
exclusion of CPS involvement.

Yes, that is correct, but in no way negates my
statement. When CPS
opens a case, and there is no evidence in the
allegation call to
suggest strong likelihood of a felony, CPS will
investigate. If such
evidence shows up, they will turn the case over to
the police,
sometimes still being part of the investigative team.
Please stop this
lying Doug. It's unfair to confuse the reader that
might not know your
history.

My point exactly and yet you pretend that this is
not so...that CPS is
doing criminal investigations that are police
matters.

To the contrary, it is made crystal clear in ALL of
the articles that police
did the investigating. CPS is not mentioned.

That was not the discussion underway, Doug. This is
what you do when
cornered and exposed as wrong....you immediately try
a weasel dodge.
How sick.

The articles were simply ONE of the possibilities. We
have plainly
moved on to discussing more than the articles,
wouldn't you say? 0:-

The articles you regularly post are evidence that
police are investigating
child abuse, as it should be.

And not evidence that CPS hasn't in fact initiated
investigation in
response to an allegation call. Many are just
that....in fact we just
went around about one...where a worker called in the
police over
suspicion that five small children had been left
alone.

I suspect that worker was there to "investigate"
Doug, and you know
it's true.

Your capacity to twist and turn and avoid the truth,
and that you are
misleading and misdirecting is becoming legendary.

Moving child abuse and neglect to exclusive LE
investigations is going
to be one of the biggest fiascos ever. Even the cops
in the florida
counties did NOT have the training, and said so with
DOLLARS, and had
to hire trained people to assist....guess who those
trained
investigators were? Why case workers, of course.

You lost this one long ago, but like a snake with
it's head cut off,
you will writing and twist until sundown.

0:-

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This last one is strictly personal - from me to you.
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are really nice to hear.



et·i·quette [éttik?t, étti kèt]
n
rules of acceptable behavior: the rules and
conventions governing correct or polite behavior in
society in general or in a particular social or
professional group or situation

wrote in message
oups.com...


Doug wrote:
Kane writes:

Kane: Yes, douggieboy we certainly want to move
social work issues to
the purview of the police...they are so good at
that sort of thing with
children's issues.

The "we" would be inaccurate.

"We" are society.

Hi, Kane,

...Then society does not want to move social work
issues to the purview of
police. Child abuse is a crime. Crime comes under
the purview of police.

You exclude yourself from society? I thought so.

No, it's just that you don't include all of society
in your false statement
that it wants social work issues handled by police.

You may want to move social work issues to
police, but I don't.

Yes you do. You have celebrated this very thing in
some of your posts.
Florida is an example. And it did NOT reduce child
abuse there, as the
media and the data shows.

No, I don't. I want to move child abuse
investigations from social service
workers to police, who are trained to investigate.
Child abuse is a crime.
Cops investigate crime.

Florida is an example of police taking over the role
of investigating child
abuse. Since we last discussed it, two more counties
have moved to the
model. It has been very successful. Foster care
populations have dropped
tremendously because children are much less likely to
be wrongfully removed
from their homes.


They don't. They investigate ALL abuse reported to
them that meets the
criteria for investigation. Then....

You are incorrect. CPS decidedly does NOT
investigate all abuse reported to
them. Law enforcement either takes the lead in many
investigations over CPS
or very often to the exclusion of CPS. Immediately.

Cases that warrant criminal prosecution is turned
over to LE regularly.
We've discussed that repeatedly in this ng, you and
I, so your claim
here points out your lies.

You are incorrect. Cases that warrant criminal
investigation are often
immediately taken over by law enforcement prior to
and often to the
exclusion of CPS involvement.

You are abysmally ignorant or deliberately lying and
misleading people:

http://www.ago.state.nm.us/divs/pros...childabuse.htm

" Child Abuse Task Force- The office coordinates and
hosts the NM Child
Abuse Task Force. The task force consists of
multidisciplinary
professionals whose purpose is to facilitate consistent
results in
cases of serious child abuse cases throughout the
State. The task force
supports the multidisciplinary approach to the
investigation of child
abuse cases and the adoption of uniform protocols in
each
jurisdiction........"

"We will dispatch a trained child abuse investigator
when a law
enforcement agency requests assistance in investigating
a child death.
We also have on staff several attorneys with
specialized child abuse
training and experience that are available to
co-counsel cases with
local prosecutors.

Training- Our office actively participates with various
groups in
sponsoring and organizing training for prosecutors,
investigators, law
enforcement, social workers and other disciplines.
Training topics
include child abuse reporting, shaken-baby cases,
sexual abuse
investigation, and child sexual exploitation. We will
provide an
investigator or attorney with specialized expertise to
present locally
on these and other topics."

[[[ The following refers to one of the many CARES or
similar units all
across the United States...and not all investigators
are LE...in fact
often there is NO LE involvement. ]]]

http://www.childadvocacycenter.org/about.htm

"ABOUT OUR CENTER

In 1995 a small group of professionals and community
volunteers met to
consider a better, more sensitive way to respond to
children in
Southwest Missouri who were suspected victims of sexual
or physical
abuse. They wanted to give children a safe, easy place
to talk about
difficult, frightening things.

The Child Advocacy Center is a place where a
comprehensive coordinated
approach is taken in response to allegations of child
abuse. Children
who may have been abused or who are witness to violent
crime, are
referred to our Center by the Juvenile Office, Division
of Family
Services or law enforcement, for a videotaped forensic
interview,
C.A.R.E. and/or S.A.F.E. exam......"

"At the CAC, specially trained child interviewers,
investigators, law
enforcement and medical personnel form a team to make
decisions about
investigation, treatment and prosecution of child abuse
cases. This
approach proposes that children receive child-focused
services in a
child-friendly environment-one in which the child's
needs come
first."

As for your great successes in Florida by the use of LE
for
investigations...they apparently don't even know when
the are looking
at an abuse situation:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localne...buse_0630.html

"
Panel praises child-abuse investigation teams

By Kathleen Chapman

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Thursday, June 30, 2005

The death of 9-year-old Michael Bernard shocked
community leaders in
Palm Beach County.

Nobody had paid much notice to the boy with cerebral
palsy before he
suffocated in a dirty room, trapped in his bed after
his parents left
for 17 hours.
More local news
Latest breaking news, photos and all of today's Post
stories.
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· Photos | Special reports
· Weather | Traffic | Obituaries

How, they asked, could child-abuse investigators not
know that his
father had been arrested 37 times? How could law
enforcement go to the
boy's house 15 times in one year but fail to save him?

They responded in 2002 with a plan for cooperation
between law
enforcement and social workers they say is unique in
Florida and maybe
the country.

More than 30 law enforcement agencies in Palm Beach
County pledged to
share information, make child abuse a priority and
investigate every
child-abuse claim along with a social worker from the
Department of
Children and Families.

Children are safer today as a result, a grand jury
concluded in a
report released Wednesday. But not all local police
departments are
living up to the spirit of the agreement, they wrote.

Road patrol officers aren't all trained in child-abuse
investigations
and don't always make the calls a priority. And few
officers use or
even have access to a database that was supposed to
allow agencies to
share their histories of involvement with local
families.

"As pleased as this Grand Jury is with the dedication
displayed by many
members of the law enforcement and child welfare
communities," members
wrote, "this Grand Jury is dismayed by the lack of
commitment shown by
others."

Since the agreement in 2002, Palm Beach County has been
the only place
in the state where two investigators - one from law
enforcement, one
from DCF - respond to every allegation of child abuse.

In most other counties, DCF child-abuse investigators
call law
enforcement only if they suspect a crime or want extra
protection,
while in a few places, like Broward County, sheriff's
offices conduct
all investigations under contract with the state.

Leaders in Palm Beach County took a different approach.
The social
worker helps the family and decides whether the
children should be
taken into foster care, while the law enforcement
officer looks for
evidence of a crime.

"What I wanted to see was two sets of eyes looking at
the home," State
Attorney Barry Krischer said.

Ted Simpkins, who heads DCF in Palm Beach County, said
abuse
investigators, many of whom are young or inexperienced,
are grateful
for the help. Law enforcement officers give them "the
comfort of
knowing you're not going alone," he said.

In February, Krischer asked the grand jury for a report
on the county's
progress. Assistant State Attorney Lanna Belohlavek
presented more than
20 witnesses, including law enforcement, social
workers, abuse hot line
staff and dispatchers.

The jurors found that though all law enforcement
agencies search common
arrest records, they are still separate fiefdoms when
it comes to
incident reports about fights, disturbances and other
calls. Few
officers are using or even have access to a database
designed to help
the county's 30 law enforcement agencies share
information about family
histories.

The jury also found the training for road patrol
officers in
child-abuse issues inadequate. The Criminal Justice
Academy, which
trains law enforcement recruits at Palm Beach Community
College, gives
"minimal" information about responding to child-abuse
allegations,
jurors wrote.

"In light of the professed commitment... by all law
enforcement
agencies in Palm Beach County and the fact that these
recruits will
eventually be the first responders to allegations of
abuse and neglect,
this is incomprehensible," the report stated.

Police departments in Riviera Beach, Ocean Ridge,
Jupiter Inlet Colony
and South Palm Beach failed to train road patrol
officers for two
years, until after they were called to testify before
the grand jury
this spring, jurors found.

"One untrained law enforcement officer in Palm Beach
County may put a
child at risk and this is unacceptable," they wrote.

Riviera Beach Police Chief Clarence Williams said
Wednesday that he
hadn't seen the report. But his agency did send every
detective and a
specialist to a countywide training seminar two years
ago and followed
up with training for nearly all road patrol officers
this spring, he
said.

Clay Walker, who has led the law enforcement effort for
nearly three
years, said he got involved because officers weren't
doing enough to
keep kids safe. Simply blaming DCF for Michael's death
seemed unfair,
he said, when police had made more than a dozen visits
to the house.

"I thought, 'We're crucifying DCF in this child's
death. But where is
the responsibility on the police department?' "

In a way, the countywide accord is an extension of
Walker's marriage:
he's the police chief of Manalapan and his wife once
supervised
child-abuse investigators for the state.

It has now been nearly three years since the death of a
child with a
history of abuse grabbed headlines in Palm Beach
County, and Walker
believes that is a sign the agreement is working. He
hopes the
community will continue its commitment, even as public
attention shifts
to other dangers like sex offenders and gang violence.

"If we were to say this is not the hot-button issue,
let's walk
away.... That would be a huge mistake for all of us,"
he said."

How, Douggieboy, could you have missed all this. And
confine yourself
to just mentioning a few counties....when most of
Florida is on another
track, and those I approve of?

Tsk.

And in the following you'll see, if you can read, and
you are honest,
that indeed police are being ASSIGNED social work as
part of their
investigation of child abuse. So much for your claim
that society
doesn't want to move more social work to police
investigators.

You'll also see that there is a clearly stated belief
that child abuse
is more than any single agency can handle.

http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/162425.txt

You got balls, Douggieboy, but not much else.

0:-



My point exactly and yet you pretend that this is
not so...that CPS is
doing criminal investigations that are police
matters.

To the contrary, it is made crystal clear in ALL of
the articles that police
did the investigating. CPS is not mentioned.

The articles you regularly post are evidence that
police are investigating
child abuse, as it should be.