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Who has the ultimate right to choose?



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 13th 07, 05:20 AM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
teachrmama
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,905
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?


"Chris" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
...
teachrmama wrote:
"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
teachrmama wrote:
"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
Relayer wrote:
Really, bottom line is if the guy doesn't want to be a father, the
LEAST he can do is use a condom.

A classic anti-abortion argument.

Not 100% but still better than
nothing. However, most guys dont like them. But some will like
being

a
father a LOT less.....

If he didn't use a condom, then too bad.

"If she wore a short skirt then she deserved to be raped."

Same logic.

Oh come on, Ray. A man who does not want to be a father but does
want
to
engage in sexual intercourse could at least have the common sense to
protect
himself.

The classic anti-abortion argument.

It's HIS sperm--he should at least try to keep the little fellers
corralled.

And her egg. But more importantly, whether to have a child is still
entirely her choice.

All the more reason for the man to protect himself--seeing as how at

this
point in time the system is going to enrich the woman at the expense of
both
the man and the child. Certainly there is nobody else out there
protecting
you.

Time to change the system. Not that I expect it to happen soon
because most women are more interested in protecting their priviledges
than they are in equality.



I agree. But, until then, you'd best be protecting yourself, right?


Double-edged sword. Are there immediate benefits to protecting yourself?
Yes. However, if the vast majority of men "protect" themselves, then the
chances of the system changing approaches zero. Why? Because this problem
will be virtually non-existent; no complaints, crusades, etc.. Remember,
the
squeaky wheel gets the grease; or at least has a chance to get the grease.
No squeak, no grease.


Surely, surely you are not suggesting that men go out and impregnate every
possible female so the "squeak" will be louder, Chris! I am apalled at your
suggestion!!


So now we have a NEW problem; that of men shouldering the irresponsible
woman's responsibility. But wait, they're already doing that. Besides, how
will the human race continue with men protecting themselves? Last I
checked,
parthenogenesis in humans does not exist.


What do you care how irresponsible the woman is if you are taking
responsibility for YOUR sexual behavior?


The problem men are faced with is not unlike the problem that a woman
utilizing an empty laundromat late at night faces. When she gets raped
while
doing her children's laundry, could you imagine the public outcry if it
was
suggested that she somehow deserved it because she did not "protect"
herself? But yet, apply the SAME example to a man (regarding unprotected
sex), and it's commonly accepted that he deserved it. Go figure.


Sticking clothes in a wahing machine to get them clean is not exactly the
same as sticking you ______ in a ____ to give yourself pleasure, Chris.


I guess you could say that no benefit is without its risks. But the man
should NOT be forced to share a risk without the accompanying benefit!


Hey, you know perfectly well how I feel about 50/50 shared custody, each
parent pays their own way. Btu what does stupidly feeding yourself to a
merciless system have to do with overcoming the evils of that system?
Protect yourself, and fight for justice. You don't have to be a victim to
fight.


To my knowledge, being a parent isn't a crime; at least it's not if you
are
a woman. But if you are a man, you get fined with TWO DECADES of payments
or
prison, even if you were FORCED into parenthood.


And if you know that will be the result, why would you be foolish enought
NOT to protect yourself?


  #12  
Old April 14th 07, 06:04 PM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?


"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
...
teachrmama wrote:
"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
teachrmama wrote:
"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
Relayer wrote:
Really, bottom line is if the guy doesn't want to be a father,

the
LEAST he can do is use a condom.

A classic anti-abortion argument.

Not 100% but still better than
nothing. However, most guys dont like them. But some will like
being

a
father a LOT less.....

If he didn't use a condom, then too bad.

"If she wore a short skirt then she deserved to be raped."

Same logic.

Oh come on, Ray. A man who does not want to be a father but does
want
to
engage in sexual intercourse could at least have the common sense

to
protect
himself.

The classic anti-abortion argument.

It's HIS sperm--he should at least try to keep the little fellers
corralled.

And her egg. But more importantly, whether to have a child is

still
entirely her choice.

All the more reason for the man to protect himself--seeing as how at

this
point in time the system is going to enrich the woman at the expense

of
both
the man and the child. Certainly there is nobody else out there
protecting
you.

Time to change the system. Not that I expect it to happen soon
because most women are more interested in protecting their

priviledges
than they are in equality.


I agree. But, until then, you'd best be protecting yourself, right?


Double-edged sword. Are there immediate benefits to protecting yourself?
Yes. However, if the vast majority of men "protect" themselves, then the
chances of the system changing approaches zero. Why? Because this

problem
will be virtually non-existent; no complaints, crusades, etc.. Remember,
the
squeaky wheel gets the grease; or at least has a chance to get the

grease.
No squeak, no grease.


Surely, surely you are not suggesting that men go out and impregnate every
possible female so the "squeak" will be louder, Chris! I am apalled at

your
suggestion!!


I made no such suggestion. I only stated a fact.



So now we have a NEW problem; that of men shouldering the irresponsible
woman's responsibility. But wait, they're already doing that. Besides,

how
will the human race continue with men protecting themselves? Last I
checked,
parthenogenesis in humans does not exist.


What do you care how irresponsible the woman is if you are taking
responsibility for YOUR sexual behavior?


Since the woman is the final arbiter of whether or not she will bear
children, the man doesn't have much of a responsibility regarding this, does
he.



The problem men are faced with is not unlike the problem that a woman
utilizing an empty laundromat late at night faces. When she gets raped
while
doing her children's laundry, could you imagine the public outcry if it
was
suggested that she somehow deserved it because she did not "protect"
herself? But yet, apply the SAME example to a man (regarding unprotected
sex), and it's commonly accepted that he deserved it. Go figure.


Sticking clothes in a wahing machine to get them clean is not exactly the
same as sticking you ______ in a ____ to give yourself pleasure, Chris.


No it's not. Apparently, my analogy has escaped you..



I guess you could say that no benefit is without its risks. But the man
should NOT be forced to share a risk without the accompanying benefit!


Hey, you know perfectly well how I feel about 50/50 shared custody, each
parent pays their own way. Btu what does stupidly feeding yourself to a
merciless system have to do with overcoming the evils of that system?
Protect yourself, and fight for justice. You don't have to be a victim to
fight.


No, but without a victim there is nothing to fight. Again, if EVERY man
"protects" himself, what will happen to the human race? I always thought
that the process of procreation was designed perfectly. However, there are
some who would disagree. Parthenogenesis is more to their liking. Lesbians,
feminazis, etc. come to mind. Problem is their procedure won't work.
Consensual sex is a basic human right; and last I checked, human rights are
undeserving of punishment. But just like you, I too agree in 505/50 equality
across the board. So, if you're gonna punish the man for having sex, then so
too shall the woman be punished.



To my knowledge, being a parent isn't a crime; at least it's not if you
are
a woman. But if you are a man, you get fined with TWO DECADES of

payments
or
prison, even if you were FORCED into parenthood.


And if you know that will be the result, why would you be foolish enought
NOT to protect yourself?


I guess for the same reason the laundromat woman was foolish enough to not
protect herself.
You see, no one can predict (know) the future; and as far as I know, it is
NOT a crime to be foolish.





  #13  
Old April 15th 07, 12:58 AM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
Robert[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 10:04:32 -0700, "Chris" wrote:

What do you care how irresponsible the woman is if you are taking
responsibility for YOUR sexual behavior?


Since the woman is the final arbiter of whether or not she will bear
children, the man doesn't have much of a responsibility regarding this, does
he.


Yep, he can make damn sure it's not his children. Have the cords
clipped, then use a condom to avoid getting a STD. Stupid ******* that
gets a STD deserves it.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  #14  
Old April 15th 07, 03:16 AM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
teachrmama
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,905
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?


"Chris" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
...
teachrmama wrote:
"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
teachrmama wrote:
"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
Relayer wrote:
Really, bottom line is if the guy doesn't want to be a father,

the
LEAST he can do is use a condom.

A classic anti-abortion argument.

Not 100% but still better than
nothing. However, most guys dont like them. But some will like
being
a
father a LOT less.....

If he didn't use a condom, then too bad.

"If she wore a short skirt then she deserved to be raped."

Same logic.

Oh come on, Ray. A man who does not want to be a father but does
want
to
engage in sexual intercourse could at least have the common sense

to
protect
himself.

The classic anti-abortion argument.

It's HIS sperm--he should at least try to keep the little
fellers
corralled.

And her egg. But more importantly, whether to have a child is

still
entirely her choice.

All the more reason for the man to protect himself--seeing as how at
this
point in time the system is going to enrich the woman at the expense

of
both
the man and the child. Certainly there is nobody else out there
protecting
you.

Time to change the system. Not that I expect it to happen soon
because most women are more interested in protecting their

priviledges
than they are in equality.


I agree. But, until then, you'd best be protecting yourself, right?

Double-edged sword. Are there immediate benefits to protecting
yourself?
Yes. However, if the vast majority of men "protect" themselves, then
the
chances of the system changing approaches zero. Why? Because this

problem
will be virtually non-existent; no complaints, crusades, etc..
Remember,
the
squeaky wheel gets the grease; or at least has a chance to get the

grease.
No squeak, no grease.


Surely, surely you are not suggesting that men go out and impregnate
every
possible female so the "squeak" will be louder, Chris! I am apalled at

your
suggestion!!


I made no such suggestion. I only stated a fact.



So now we have a NEW problem; that of men shouldering the irresponsible
woman's responsibility. But wait, they're already doing that. Besides,

how
will the human race continue with men protecting themselves? Last I
checked,
parthenogenesis in humans does not exist.


What do you care how irresponsible the woman is if you are taking
responsibility for YOUR sexual behavior?


Since the woman is the final arbiter of whether or not she will bear
children, the man doesn't have much of a responsibility regarding this,
does
he.



The problem men are faced with is not unlike the problem that a woman
utilizing an empty laundromat late at night faces. When she gets raped
while
doing her children's laundry, could you imagine the public outcry if it
was
suggested that she somehow deserved it because she did not "protect"
herself? But yet, apply the SAME example to a man (regarding
unprotected
sex), and it's commonly accepted that he deserved it. Go figure.


Sticking clothes in a wahing machine to get them clean is not exactly the
same as sticking you ______ in a ____ to give yourself pleasure, Chris.


No it's not. Apparently, my analogy has escaped you..


There is a railroad track running just outside little town. We get 2 trains
through per day--one in the middle of the night, and one at about 2 in the
afternoon. Because of the low traffic on the road, there are not protective
arms coming down to keep folks from crossing at the wrong time, although
there are the flashing lights and bells. It is perfectly legal to walk
along the country road and across therailroad tracks. But I would be a big
fool were I to try to display my right to walk there just as a train was
coming through. The train would win--every time. My "rights" will NOT
protect me from the train.




I guess you could say that no benefit is without its risks. But the man
should NOT be forced to share a risk without the accompanying benefit!


Hey, you know perfectly well how I feel about 50/50 shared custody, each
parent pays their own way. Btu what does stupidly feeding yourself to a
merciless system have to do with overcoming the evils of that system?
Protect yourself, and fight for justice. You don't have to be a victim
to
fight.


No, but without a victim there is nothing to fight. Again, if EVERY man
"protects" himself, what will happen to the human race? I always thought
that the process of procreation was designed perfectly.


Do yoyu intend to procreate every time you have sex, Chris? If so, you have
nothing to complain about because you do, indeed, intend to be a father. If
you do not wish to be a father every time you have sex, have the common
sense to not walk across the tracks when the train is coming.

However, there are
some who would disagree. Parthenogenesis is more to their liking.
Lesbians,
feminazis, etc. come to mind. Problem is their procedure won't work.
Consensual sex is a basic human right; and last I checked, human rights
are
undeserving of punishment. But just like you, I too agree in 505/50
equality
across the board. So, if you're gonna punish the man for having sex, then
so
too shall the woman be punished.


Rather that "punish"--how about if we hold both parties equally responsible
to care for the child and to financially support the child. Raising a
child is NOT a punishment. Paying for a child that you do not get the
pleasure of raising could be considered punishment.




To my knowledge, being a parent isn't a crime; at least it's not if you
are
a woman. But if you are a man, you get fined with TWO DECADES of

payments
or
prison, even if you were FORCED into parenthood.


And if you know that will be the result, why would you be foolish enought
NOT to protect yourself?


I guess for the same reason the laundromat woman was foolish enough to not
protect herself.
You see, no one can predict (know) the future; and as far as I know, it is
NOT a crime to be foolish.


Ah, but, Chris, at this point in time it IS illegal to father a child and
not pay the ordered support. THAT is the part that you consider wrong,
isn't it? The woman in the laundromat unprotected late at night is foolish
but not criminal. The man who fathers an unwanted child and refuses to pay
CS is both foolish and criminal, according to today's laws. The wise man
will protect himself.


  #15  
Old April 15th 07, 08:32 AM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?


"Robert" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 10:04:32 -0700, "Chris" wrote:

What do you care how irresponsible the woman is if you are taking
responsibility for YOUR sexual behavior?


Since the woman is the final arbiter of whether or not she will bear
children, the man doesn't have much of a responsibility regarding this,

does
he.


Yep, he can make damn sure it's not his children.


Indeed he can, but not a prerequisite. Whether the children she decides to
bring into the world are fathered by him or not does not change his lack of
responsibility. It is impossible for him to be responsible for her SOLE
choice to bear children.

Have the cords
clipped, then use a condom to avoid getting a STD. Stupid ******* that
gets a STD deserves it.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



  #16  
Old April 15th 07, 01:13 PM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
Relayer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 301
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?

On Apr 15, 2:32�am, "Chris" wrote:
"Robert" wrote in message

...

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 10:04:32 -0700, "Chris" wrote:


What do you care how irresponsible the woman is if you are taking
responsibility for YOUR sexual behavior?


Since the woman is the final arbiter of whether or not she will bear
children, the man doesn't have much of a responsibility regarding this,

does
he.


* Yep, he can make damn sure it's not his children.


Indeed he can, but not a prerequisite. Whether the children she decides to
bring into the world are fathered by him or not does not change his lack of
responsibility. It is impossible for him to be responsible for her SOLE
choice to bear children.



Have the cords
clipped, then use a condom to avoid getting a STD. Stupid ******* that
gets a STD deserves it.


--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Goddamn it, put on a rubber. If you decide to forgo that, gorw up and
be a man.

Birth control is a two way street. If you want to be reckless and not
cap the bishop, then stop bitching and grow up.

  #17  
Old April 15th 07, 06:14 PM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
Ray Fischer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 152
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?

Robert wrote:
Whether or not she has a child is none of his business, as long as
it's not his child. If he ****'s up, and she has his child he has a
obligation to support that child.


Why?

Any ******* that refuses to support
his child, needs to be horse whipped, and castrated.


Don't let logic and reason get in your way when you want to cling to
unthinking hatred.

Don't want a
woman to have your child, don't have unprotected sex with her.


Your notion that women are irresponsible bimbos that must be taken
care of by men is sexist and outdated.

A man has the absolute responsibility to support his offspring.


Just because you say so.

--
Ray Fischer


  #18  
Old April 15th 07, 06:14 PM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
Robert[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:32:02 -0700, "Chris" wrote:


"Robert" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 10:04:32 -0700, "Chris" wrote:

What do you care how irresponsible the woman is if you are taking
responsibility for YOUR sexual behavior?

Since the woman is the final arbiter of whether or not she will bear
children, the man doesn't have much of a responsibility regarding this,

does
he.


Yep, he can make damn sure it's not his children.


Indeed he can, but not a prerequisite. Whether the children she decides to
bring into the world are fathered by him or not does not change his lack of
responsibility. It is impossible for him to be responsible for her SOLE
choice to bear children.

Whether or not she has a child is none of his business, as long as
it's not his child. If he ****'s up, and she has his child he has a
obligation to support that child. Any ******* that refuses to support
his child, needs to be horse whipped, and castrated. Don't want a
woman to have your child, don't have unprotected sex with her.
A man has the absolute responsibility to support his offspring.
Just as a woman has a right to choose to abort.
Have the cords
clipped, then use a condom to avoid getting a STD. Stupid ******* that
gets a STD deserves it.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  #19  
Old April 15th 07, 06:43 PM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
teachrmama
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,905
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?


"Robert" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:32:02 -0700, "Chris" wrote:


"Robert" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 10:04:32 -0700, "Chris" wrote:

What do you care how irresponsible the woman is if you are taking
responsibility for YOUR sexual behavior?

Since the woman is the final arbiter of whether or not she will bear
children, the man doesn't have much of a responsibility regarding this,

does
he.

Yep, he can make damn sure it's not his children.


Indeed he can, but not a prerequisite. Whether the children she decides to
bring into the world are fathered by him or not does not change his lack
of
responsibility. It is impossible for him to be responsible for her SOLE
choice to bear children.

Whether or not she has a child is none of his business, as long as
it's not his child. If he ****'s up, and she has his child he has a
obligation to support that child. Any ******* that refuses to support
his child, needs to be horse whipped, and castrated. Don't want a
woman to have your child, don't have unprotected sex with her.
A man has the absolute responsibility to support his offspring.


You keep forgetting a VERY IMPORTANT part, Robert. It is HIS CHILD! He has
the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to parent that child. He should have that child with him
50% of the time. And the mother should be forced to provide 50% of the
financial support of the child, just as the father is. FORCED LABOR if
necessary! You keep leaving that part out. I'm not sure why.




  #20  
Old April 15th 07, 09:02 PM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
Gini
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 936
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?


"teachrmama" wrote

"Robert" wrote

...........................
If he ****'s up, and she has his child he has a
obligation to support that child. Any ******* that refuses to support
his child, needs to be horse whipped, and castrated. Don't want a
woman to have your child, don't have unprotected sex with her.
A man has the absolute responsibility to support his offspring.


You keep forgetting a VERY IMPORTANT part, Robert. It is HIS CHILD! He
has the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to parent that child. He should have that child
with him 50% of the time. And the mother should be forced to provide 50%
of the financial support of the child, just as the father is. FORCED
LABOR if necessary! You keep leaving that part out. I'm not sure why.

==
It's because only mothers have children and only fathers pay. Sheesh! it's
*so* obvious


 




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