YALP for FX and his lover, Greg.

0:-] wrote:
Life plus 50 for incest: Ravalli County man had jumped bail, was ...
The Missoulian - Missoula,MT,USA
A Ravalli County man convicted on seven counts of incest earlier this
year was sentenced Wednesday to life plus 75 years in the Montana
State Prison,


http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2007/05/17/news/mtregional/news08.txt
................

These, FX, are the kind of people YOU want to protect, by falsely
attacking CPS with your garbage propaganda. Aren't you ashamed of
yourself.


Not Me! (FX)

I believe all child abusers should be jailed and I have said so many
times...

Protecting children has always been a job for the police and NOT CPS,
Right now the only thing Child Protective Services protects is it's own
ASS!...

I am sick and tired however of listening to politicians praise Civil
Rights activists like Martin Luther King jr. out of one side of their
faces (yes I'm saying their 2 faced!) while knowingly making a mockery
of everything he stood for out of the other side, By allowing Child
Protective Services to violate every Constitutional and Civil Rights
low-income Families have without putting a stop to it, The Civil Rights
Martin Luther King jr. and others fought so long and hard for are
meaningless in the eyes of the current administration…


************************************************** *****************
"Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be
demanded by the oppressed."--Martin Luther King Jr.
************************************************** *****************

Everybody talks about how the NSA/CIA is violating our civil rights by
listening in on our communications.

But nobody is talking about America’s Hidden Holocaust, the Destruction
of Hundreds of Good and innocent Low-Income Families by Child Protective
Services…

Currently Child Protective Services violates more civil rights on a
daily basis then all other agencies combined, Including the NSA/CIA
wiretaping program…

Personally I Do Not appreciate Child Protective Services using the
Constitution of the United States as Toilet Paper in a Time of War,
while the Good Men and Women of our Armed Forces are Fighting and Dying
for It.


************************************************** **********************
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us
tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second
will not become a legalized version of the first.": --Thomas Jefferson
************************************************** **********************

Somebody needs to remind the individual State's and their governors that
children stolen from often times [INNOCENT] low-income families are not
commodities to be traded for $$$$ Federal Dollars $$$...

************************************************** *************************
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side
of the oppressor."--Bishop Desmond Tutu (1931- ) Nobel Prize for Peace 1984
************************************************** *************************

even one innocent family destroyed by CPS is one too many.

now are you ashamed of yourself
in the "sure and certain" knowledge that there are innocent children who
were wrongfully removed from their families crying for there parents
right now?

CPS should be more like doctors, first do no harm...

Now that's CPS reform worth fighting for...




http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...7/MN219970.DTL


San Francisco Chronicle
Child in incest is always the victim, state high court says
Minor can't be held complicit even if sex act consensual

Harriet Chiang, Chronicle Legal Affairs Writer

Friday, April 27, 2001

* Printable Version
* Email This Article

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Times New Roman
Arial

A minor who has consensual sex with a parent is not guilty of incest
and cannot be an accomplice to the crime, the California Supreme Court
ruled yesterday.

The court overturned a controversial state appeals court ruling that
had found a San Jose teenager an accomplice to the crime when she had
a sexual relationship with her father. The lower court said the jury
should have considered her testimony against her father in that
context.

But in yesterday's decision, the high court said the burden is on the
adult to refrain from having sex with the minor.

"A child under 18 who has an incestuous sexual relationship with an
adult is a victim, not a perpetrator of the incest," Justice Janice
Rogers Brown wrote in the majority opinion. "This conclusion remains
valid even when the child consents to the sex."

The justices upheld the conviction of Joel Robert Tobias, who was
convicted of 10 counts of incest.

In July 1995, Tobias' 16-year-old daughter moved into his apartment
with her infant daughter. The teenager, identified by the court as
"V." had been living with her mother and said she wanted to get to
know her father.

Within a few weeks, the father and daughter began having sex.

V. said she didn't want to have sex with her 38-year-old father, but
admitted that he didn't force her. She said she continued to live with
him because, in other respects, "he was a good father."

After six months, she moved out. She gave birth to a baby a few months
later, and tests showed Tobias was the father.

Tobias was convicted of incest and sentenced to 18 years in prison
because he had a prior conviction for performing a lewd act on a
child.

Tobias appealed, claiming the trial judge should have cautioned the
jury about V.'s testimony because she was an accomplice to the crime.

A state appeals court agreed with Tobias' argument, although the
justices upheld his conviction, finding that there was enough evidence
supporting his daughter's testimony.

In yesterday's opinion, the state Supreme Court said the appellate
court decision was an aberration, going against 75 years of consistent
law.

Incest is different from other sex crimes because "the act itself is
unlawful, whether or not it is consensual or a minor is involved,"
Brown wrote.

When a minor is involved, the court said it doesn't matter who
initiates the relationship because the minor will always be the victim
and can't be convicted of a crime with the adult.

The court noted that there is a heavy stigma associated with incest,
and if a child could be charged, the parent could use that threat to
keep the minor from reporting the crime.

Although all seven justices agreed with the result, three disagreed
with the majority's reasoning. In a separate opinion, Chief Justice
Ronald George said a child can't be an accomplice to incest because a
minor is incapable of giving legal consent to having sex with an
adult.

"All the justices agree that a minor does not commit incest by having
consensual sex with an adult," said Deputy Attorney General Jeremy
Friedlander.

"That is the correct reading of the law, and it is not a close
question."

E-mail Harriet Chiang at .

--------------------
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister...le_1697411.php

Thursday, May 17, 2007
Dad denies incest charges
Garden Grove man is suspected of raping and impregnating his
13-year-old daughter.
By RYAN HAMMILL
The Orange County Register

WESTMINSTER– A Garden Grove man accused of raping and impregnating his
13-year-old daughter pleaded not guilty to three sexual abuse charges
at the West Justice Center on Wednesday.

The 38-year-old man, who faces felony charges for sexual assault on a
child under 14, lewd acts on a child under 14 causing great bodily
injury, and incest, is scheduled for a pre-trial hearing June 20.

He continues to be held in Orange County Jail in lieu of $1 million
bail.

The man faces a maximum sentence of life in prison if convicted.

After complaining of abdominal pain and nausea in April, a medical
exam discovered the man's daughter was two months pregnant.

The girl, who said she had no previous sexual experience, told medical
and police officials the abuse occurred between Feb. 27 and March 2.

Contact the writer: or 714-445-6694







CURRENTLY CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES VIOLATES MORE CIVIL RIGHTS ON A
DAILY BASIS THEN ALL OTHER AGENCIES COMBINED INCLUDING THE NATIONAL
SECURITY AGENCY/CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY WIRETAPPING PROGRAM....

CPS Does not protect children...
It is sickening how many children are subject to abuse, neglect and even
killed at the hands of Child Protective Services.

every parent should read this .pdf from
connecticut dcf watch...

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com/8x11.pdf

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com

Number of Cases per 100,000 children in the US
These numbers come from The National Center on
Child Abuse and Neglect in Washington. (NCCAN)
Recent numbers have increased significantly for CPS

*Perpetrators of Maltreatment*

Physical Abuse CPS 160, Parents 59
Sexual Abuse CPS 112, Parents 13
Neglect CPS 410, Parents 241
Medical Neglect CPS 14 Parents 12
Fatalities CPS 6.4, Parents 1.5

Imagine that, 6.4 children die at the hands of the very agencies that
are supposed to protect them and only 1.5 at the hands of parents per
100,000 children. CPS perpetrates more abuse, neglect, and sexual abuse
and kills more children then parents in the United States. If the
citizens of this country hold CPS to the same standards that they hold
parents too. No judge should ever put another child in the hands of ANY
government agency because CPS nationwide is guilty of more harm and
death than any human being combined. CPS nationwide is guilty of more
human rights violations and deaths of children then the homes from which
they were removed. When are the judges going to wake up and see that
they are sending children to their death and a life of abuse when
children are removed from safe homes based on the mere opinion of a
bunch of social workers.

BE SURE TO FIND OUT WHERE YOUR CANDIDATES STANDS ON THE ISSUE OF
REFORMING OR ABOLISHING CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES ("MAKE YOUR CANDIDATES
TAKE A STAND ON THIS ISSUE.") THEN REMEMBER TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY IF THEY
ARE "FAMILY UNFRIENDLY" IN THE NEXT ELECTION...

Kane, Could you please explain how publicizing the
utter disgraces of the CPS BUREAUCRACY helps
the true pervs out there?

The vast majority of what CPS does doesn't have
much to do with catching true child molesters,
unless you count the pedophile caseworkers!

CPS doesn't handle CRIMINAL Child Abuse remember?

You wish people would HUSH UP about the
major screwups and disasters of the CPS agencies?

Good PR for CPS based on LIES and coverups would
help them be more of a THREAT to the real pervs?? How?
Isn't the Dateline TV Predator sting more of a threat to the real
pervs than CPS?

Have you stopped calling yourself a CPS reformer?
How can you be a reformer while trying to HUSH UP
publicity about the atrocities and fiascos in the agencies?

Are you a SECRET sort of reformer? chuckle

Citizens of this country deserve better than what CPS delivers.

It won't be long now!

On May 22, 8:38 am, Greegor wrote:

It won't be long now!

Till what?

On May 22, 8:38 am, Greegor wrote:

It won't be long now!

Till what?

On May 22, 8:38 am, Greegor wrote:

It won't be long now!

Till what?

On May 22, 8:38 am, Greegor wrote:

It won't be long now!

Till what?

0:-] wrote:
On Sun, 20 May 2007 16:23:00 -0700, fx wrote:

0:-] wrote:
Life plus 50 for incest: Ravalli County man had jumped bail, was ...
The Missoulian - Missoula,MT,USA
A Ravalli County man convicted on seven counts of incest earlier this
year was sentenced Wednesday to life plus 75 years in the Montana
State Prison,


http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2007/05/17/news/mtregional/news08.txt
................

These, FX, are the kind of people YOU want to protect, by falsely
attacking CPS with your garbage propaganda. Aren't you ashamed of
yourself.

Not Me! (FX)

Yep you. The only system that consistently uncovers these sick thugs,
and does the follow up work that establishes "cause" for police to
investigate in THE MOST CERTAIN PROOF, just happens to be CPS, who you
consistently lie about and wish to destroy.

Don't kid us. You'd far rather a parent ****ed their child and got
away with it than they be caught by CPS, isn't that correct, sir?

I believe all child abusers should be jailed and I have said so many
times...

No you have not. Check you fx posting history, stupid.

Protecting children has always been a job for the police and NOT CPS,

Police are ill equipped to do it. In Florida (I just interviewed a
former CPS worker/supervisor from there Saturday afternoon) she told
me exactly what I had posted proof of in this ng years ago when the
"we must use the police who are always better trained for
'investigative' work."

You remember what that was I said and prove, 'fx' you ****ing X
nothing?

That the cops were SO BAD AT IT THEY HAD TO HIRE CPS WORKERS...AND
GUESS WHAT...the incidence of removal of children for cause...that is
proven allegation?

IT WENT UP IN THOSE COUNTIES, YOU STUPID LYING PIECE OF IGNORANT
ARROGANT ****.

By the way, am I getting through to you, or are you still in denial?

Right now the only thing Child Protective Services protects is it's own
ASS!...

Nope. Nearly all, since we are discussing incest, sex abuse and incest
cases OPEN FROM A CPS INITIAL INVESTIGATION, NOT a LE one. YOu stupid
****.

You are so ****ing ignorant that because CPS THEN calls in the cops
that you you think "the cops" did it all. Bull****.

Even large Metro police departments have very small insignificant
(when it comes to cases and investigations they can handle) child
abuse units. I know three of them personally. They are overwelmed and
especially with the social issues involved.

Do you, for instance, think that the police should decide to remove
the child FROM BOTH PARENTS if one is a non-offending parent?

Will THE POLICE establish that and evaluate the safety of the
non-offending parent to keep the child safe? THAT'S SOCIAL WORK YOU
STUPID ****POT WEARER.

Cops are NOT trained for it, and for the most part abhor the work. It
just takes too much out of them. They are not attracted to "family"
work stupid. They don't join to work with abused children.

What are the cops doing to do with the kids they remove...take them
home to their wives and husbands, you fart in pants?
I am sick and tired however of listening to politicians praise Civil
Rights activists like Martin Luther King jr. out of one side of their
faces (yes I'm saying their 2 faced!) while knowingly making a mockery
of everything he stood for out of the other side, By allowing Child
Protective Services to violate every Constitutional and Civil Rights
low-income Families have without putting a stop to it, The Civil Rights
Martin Luther King jr. and others fought so long and hard for are
meaningless in the eyes of the current administration…

Hyperbole. Appeal to emotion instead of reason. Outright LIE about
"every" this and that.

List those rights which are violated. Let's see some proof you pimple
faced little nose picker.

Nothing significant in the operation of CPS has changed between the
Clinton administration and this one, stupid.

The "reunification" model has been around and actively pursued as CPS
practice since 1980, when I did my practicum in the Oregon CSD, as it
was called at that time.

It gained greater and greater emphasis in casework as time went by,
adn I followed it closely as I supported and coached RELATIVES to
intervene and take the children so they would not be removed from
family.

I come from a social work and mental health background professionally
and a POLICE BACKGROUND via my large extended family that has about a
dozen cops in the past two generations.

YOu are full of bull****, my friend. Stupid. Ignorant. And full of
yourself.

Your opinions are driven by your emotionals and your little hurt
feelings at having your ass so thoroughly kicked in this ng, ascps,
when you spouted off your bull**** "advice."

Go back to jackin' off your attack dogs, stupid.

Nine times out of ten the incidences taken from the media that you try
to use to prove your accusations trace entirely to OTHERS than CPS.
The court, the legislature, various agencies other than CPS and the
incidental individuals that did NOT do the right thing...like
neighbors that did NOT report abuse, like family members that hid the
crimes.

You are a liar, sir, and ****ing stupid as a stump to boot.

You go for CPS because they are handy, and they cannot do anything
about your lies. Try lying about LE and the Courts directly to them on
these cases, you ****ing coward.

Kane


yawn


************************************************** *****************
"Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be
demanded by the oppressed."--Martin Luther King Jr.
************************************************** *****************

Everybody talks about how the NSA/CIA is violating our civil rights by
listening in on our communications.

But nobody is talking about America’s Hidden Holocaust, the Destruction
of Hundreds of Good and innocent Low-Income Families by Child Protective
Services…

Currently Child Protective Services violates more civil rights on a
daily basis then all other agencies combined, Including the NSA/CIA
wiretaping program…

Personally I Do Not appreciate Child Protective Services using the
Constitution of the United States as Toilet Paper in a Time of War,
while the Good Men and Women of our Armed Forces are Fighting and Dying
for It.


************************************************** **********************
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us
tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second
will not become a legalized version of the first.": --Thomas Jefferson
************************************************** **********************

Somebody needs to remind the individual State's and their governors that
children stolen from often times [INNOCENT] low-income families are not
commodities to be traded for $$$$ Federal Dollars $$$...

************************************************** *************************
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side
of the oppressor."--Bishop Desmond Tutu (1931- ) Nobel Prize for Peace 1984
************************************************** *************************

even one innocent family destroyed by CPS is one too many.

now are you ashamed of yourself
in the "sure and certain" knowledge that there are innocent children who
were wrongfully removed from their families crying for there parents
right now?

CPS should be more like doctors, first do no harm...

Now that's CPS reform worth fighting for...



http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...7/MN219970.DTL

San Francisco Chronicle
Child in incest is always the victim, state high court says
Minor can't be held complicit even if sex act consensual

Harriet Chiang, Chronicle Legal Affairs Writer

Friday, April 27, 2001

* Printable Version
* Email This Article

delicious del.icio.us
digg Digg
technorati Technorati
reddit Reddit slashdot Slashdot
fark Fark
newsvine Newsvine
google Google Bookmarks
Georgia (default)
Verdana
Times New Roman
Arial

A minor who has consensual sex with a parent is not guilty of incest
and cannot be an accomplice to the crime, the California Supreme Court
ruled yesterday.

The court overturned a controversial state appeals court ruling that
had found a San Jose teenager an accomplice to the crime when she had
a sexual relationship with her father. The lower court said the jury
should have considered her testimony against her father in that
context.

But in yesterday's decision, the high court said the burden is on the
adult to refrain from having sex with the minor.

"A child under 18 who has an incestuous sexual relationship with an
adult is a victim, not a perpetrator of the incest," Justice Janice
Rogers Brown wrote in the majority opinion. "This conclusion remains
valid even when the child consents to the sex."

The justices upheld the conviction of Joel Robert Tobias, who was
convicted of 10 counts of incest.

In July 1995, Tobias' 16-year-old daughter moved into his apartment
with her infant daughter. The teenager, identified by the court as
"V." had been living with her mother and said she wanted to get to
know her father.

Within a few weeks, the father and daughter began having sex.

V. said she didn't want to have sex with her 38-year-old father, but
admitted that he didn't force her. She said she continued to live with
him because, in other respects, "he was a good father."

After six months, she moved out. She gave birth to a baby a few months
later, and tests showed Tobias was the father.

Tobias was convicted of incest and sentenced to 18 years in prison
because he had a prior conviction for performing a lewd act on a
child.

Tobias appealed, claiming the trial judge should have cautioned the
jury about V.'s testimony because she was an accomplice to the crime.

A state appeals court agreed with Tobias' argument, although the
justices upheld his conviction, finding that there was enough evidence
supporting his daughter's testimony.

In yesterday's opinion, the state Supreme Court said the appellate
court decision was an aberration, going against 75 years of consistent
law.

Incest is different from other sex crimes because "the act itself is
unlawful, whether or not it is consensual or a minor is involved,"
Brown wrote.

When a minor is involved, the court said it doesn't matter who
initiates the relationship because the minor will always be the victim
and can't be convicted of a crime with the adult.

The court noted that there is a heavy stigma associated with incest,
and if a child could be charged, the parent could use that threat to
keep the minor from reporting the crime.

Although all seven justices agreed with the result, three disagreed
with the majority's reasoning. In a separate opinion, Chief Justice
Ronald George said a child can't be an accomplice to incest because a
minor is incapable of giving legal consent to having sex with an
adult.

"All the justices agree that a minor does not commit incest by having
consensual sex with an adult," said Deputy Attorney General Jeremy
Friedlander.

"That is the correct reading of the law, and it is not a close
question."

E-mail Harriet Chiang at .

--------------------
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister...le_1697411.php

Thursday, May 17, 2007
Dad denies incest charges
Garden Grove man is suspected of raping and impregnating his
13-year-old daughter.
By RYAN HAMMILL
The Orange County Register

WESTMINSTER– A Garden Grove man accused of raping and impregnating his
13-year-old daughter pleaded not guilty to three sexual abuse charges
at the West Justice Center on Wednesday.

The 38-year-old man, who faces felony charges for sexual assault on a
child under 14, lewd acts on a child under 14 causing great bodily
injury, and incest, is scheduled for a pre-trial hearing June 20.

He continues to be held in Orange County Jail in lieu of $1 million
bail.

The man faces a maximum sentence of life in prison if convicted.

After complaining of abdominal pain and nausea in April, a medical
exam discovered the man's daughter was two months pregnant.

The girl, who said she had no previous sexual experience, told medical
and police officials the abuse occurred between Feb. 27 and March 2.

Contact the writer: or 714-445-6694






CURRENTLY CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES VIOLATES MORE CIVIL RIGHTS ON A
DAILY BASIS THEN ALL OTHER AGENCIES COMBINED INCLUDING THE NATIONAL
SECURITY AGENCY/CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY WIRETAPPING PROGRAM....

CPS Does not protect children...
It is sickening how many children are subject to abuse, neglect and even
killed at the hands of Child Protective Services.

every parent should read this .pdf from
connecticut dcf watch...

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com/8x11.pdf

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com

Number of Cases per 100,000 children in the US
These numbers come from The National Center on
Child Abuse and Neglect in Washington. (NCCAN)
Recent numbers have increased significantly for CPS

*Perpetrators of Maltreatment*

Physical Abuse CPS 160, Parents 59
Sexual Abuse CPS 112, Parents 13
Neglect CPS 410, Parents 241
Medical Neglect CPS 14 Parents 12
Fatalities CPS 6.4, Parents 1.5

Imagine that, 6.4 children die at the hands of the very agencies that
are supposed to protect them and only 1.5 at the hands of parents per
100,000 children. CPS perpetrates more abuse, neglect, and sexual abuse
and kills more children then parents in the United States. If the
citizens of this country hold CPS to the same standards that they hold
parents too. No judge should ever put another child in the hands of ANY
government agency because CPS nationwide is guilty of more harm and
death than any human being combined. CPS nationwide is guilty of more
human rights violations and deaths of children then the homes from which
they were removed. When are the judges going to wake up and see that
they are sending children to their death and a life of abuse when
children are removed from safe homes based on the mere opinion of a
bunch of social workers.

BE SURE TO FIND OUT WHERE YOUR CANDIDATES STANDS ON THE ISSUE OF
REFORMING OR ABOLISHING CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES ("MAKE YOUR CANDIDATES
TAKE A STAND ON THIS ISSUE.") THEN REMEMBER TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY IF THEY
ARE "FAMILY UNFRIENDLY" IN THE NEXT ELECTION...

On May 22, 8:38 am, Greegor wrote:

It won't be long now!

Till what?

Why sentence an incest perv more harshly than most murderers?

Won't penalties like that encourage pervs like that to murder their
victim?

If a 16 year old commits a gang murder they can be
charged as an adult, yet if they instigate incest
they are totally blameless?

Does that blamelessness apply even if they instigate incest with a
younger child?

I just don't buy this totally innocent CHILD mindset
about many later teens, since I found out how many
prostitutes are 14 years old, and how gangs send
teens to perpetrate murders.

My opinion of the teen culture and the gangster wannabe
and sex parts in particular was very negative but after
recent reports from a young man I now think it's MUCH
worse than I had thought.

The teen culture about sex is much more crass and unfeeling than I had
thought.
One young guy said that every girl he ever went out with is BISEXUAL.

Apparently sex for them is now almost totally
devoid of any emotion, feelings. It's all about the nookie.

They are extremely sexually active almost universally at age 12.

Kids are doing "three ways" at age 12, engaging in prostitution
at 14 and our high court is saying that a 16 year old is
totally innocent for instigating incest with her father??

To blanket apply the "innocent teenager" notion rather than
looking into the case by case reality is rediculous.

Does the field of PSYCHOLOGY take a dim view of teens
who play the jailbait game? Do they in any way try to
repair them or end the jailbait behavior?

Is nympho Electra behavior, morally and emotionally
bankrupt sex, prostitution at age 14 and the abuse
of the jailbait game all seen as HEALTHY by the
field of PSYCHOLOGY???

Is the field of PSYCHOLOGY looking at 16 year
old teen mothers who instigate incest as not a big deal?

Does the field of PSYCHOLOGY ever apply any morals at all?

0:-] wrote:

Don/Kane/d'geezer - we understand that you were 'horribly' abused as a
child and that incest holds a special place in your decrepid life - but
this is a support group for parents abused by CPS scum like you.

You Don, well you just can't seem to get enough. Abusing and falsely
accusing innocent folk give you a giggle - an rrrrr - you're a typical
narcissistic CPS scumbag.

Try to remember not all parents are your daddy, boy - reguardless of
what your perverted delusions tell you.

Now be a good little goof and post your parent hating drivel in the
right forum.

Sheesh - you and pigborn must be twins.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com