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What the Research Says About Physical Punishment



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 10th 07, 01:27 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.parenting.spanking,misc.kids
Beliavsky
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Posts: 453
Default What the Research Says About Physical Punishment

On Jul 10, 12:16 am, "nimue" wrote:

snip

Please tell me you are kidding. If you aren't, please, PLEASE do not breed
anymore and send you children to a caring, supportive therapist.


Tori just wants her kids to be safe. You are being rude and arrogant.

  #22  
Old July 10th 07, 03:19 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.parenting.spanking,misc.kids
nimue
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Posts: 645
Default What the Research Says About Physical Punishment

Beliavsky wrote:
On Jul 10, 12:16 am, "nimue" wrote:

snip

Please tell me you are kidding. If you aren't, please, PLEASE do
not breed anymore and send you children to a caring, supportive
therapist.


Tori just wants her kids to be safe. You are being rude and arrogant.


Tori probably does want her kids to be safe. She is not going about
ensuring that safety in a healthy or productive way, however -- and I am not
the only person who thinks so. Her methods are damaging and she needs help.
I am sure her kids do, too.

--
nimue

"Let your freak-flag fly, and if someone doesn't get you, move on."
Drew Barrymore


  #23  
Old July 10th 07, 04:36 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.parenting.spanking,misc.kids
Tori M[_2_]
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Posts: 79
Default What the Research Says About Physical Punishment


Yes we taught them that if they play in the road they could become dead
and that Mommy and Daddy would be sad if they became dead. We also
explained that lesson about tying things to their necks. Maybe I am
paranoid after seeing a kid hit by a car in a driveway but I also do not
want them playing in my driveway.



That is a tad frightening. How old are your kids?


Old enough to have watched Bambi and The Lion King. Bonnie knows that
dead means you don't come back.
We have a nice amount of lawn for 2 kids to play in and that is the only
place I want them. We go out, when they do not obey me we go back in.



When they don't obey WHAT precisely?

The don't stay in the yard, they play in the driveway, they ride their
bike towards the road.

They run towards the road we go in they get spanked and then we explain
why and reinforce it by reminding them that mommy and Daddy do not want
them Dead.



They probablydont have the first earthly idea what dead is and no amount of
yammering will explain it the way you mean it.


Actually they do know what dead means.. But thank you.. at least Bonnie
does.

Get the books I reference above. Really.


If I think of it when my husband goes back to work I will look into it.
He was laid off yesterday.

Tori
  #24  
Old July 10th 07, 05:22 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.parenting.spanking,misc.kids
nimue
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Posts: 645
Default What the Research Says About Physical Punishment

Tori M wrote:
Yes we taught them that if they play in the road they could become
dead and that Mommy and Daddy would be sad if they became dead. We
also explained that lesson about tying things to their necks.
Maybe I am paranoid after seeing a kid hit by a car in a driveway
but I also do not want them playing in my driveway.



That is a tad frightening. How old are your kids?


Old enough to have watched Bambi and The Lion King. Bonnie knows that
dead means you don't come back.
We have a nice amount of lawn for 2 kids to play in and that is the
only place I want them. We go out, when they do not obey me we go
back in.



When they don't obey WHAT precisely?

The don't stay in the yard, they play in the driveway, they ride their
bike towards the road.

They run towards the road we go in they get spanked and then we
explain why and reinforce it by reminding them that mommy and Daddy
do not want them Dead.



They probablydont have the first earthly idea what dead is and no
amount of yammering will explain it the way you mean it.


Actually they do know what dead means.. But thank you.. at least
Bonnie does.


It's just so sick. I can see Homer Simpson using that to terrorize the
kids, "Don't play in the road or you will DIE!!!! And mommy and daddy will
be DESTROYED!!!!! And it will be ALL YOUR FAULT!!! That is what you get
for not listening to mommy and daddy -- you get DEAD!!!!!" because he is too
thick to find a gentler, more effective way to communicate with the kids.

Get the books I reference above. Really.


If I think of it when my husband goes back to work I will look into
it. He was laid off yesterday.


Go to the library and get them. Your kids should go, too.

Tori


--
nimue

"Let your freak-flag fly, and if someone doesn't get you, move on."
Drew Barrymore


  #25  
Old July 10th 07, 06:42 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.parenting.spanking,misc.kids
Tori M[_2_]
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Posts: 79
Default What the Research Says About Physical Punishment


Just plan on spending (as you already know) about two to three years
in high alert supervision of your child...ages approximately two to 5.

'Bout right? From your memory of the first one? And what you are doing
now?


Xavier is a different type of cookie from Bonnie. Bonnie was very
difficult as a baby. Not her fault mind you, she had colic and it about
drove me crazy. She was very easy as a toddler though. We never had to
baby proof until after Xavier was born. Then she wanted to play in his
formula. She walked at 14 months, was behind on speech, all seemed
common with her having IUGR.

Xavier was so easy as a baby. Spit up maybe 5 times ever. About 9
months he started cruising. 10 months he started walking. Right away I
had to baby proof. He likes to know how things work. He is fascinated
with things with working parts and everything MUST be how it is supposed
to be. He has better pronunciation of words then Bonnie did at the same
age, some even now. His first word was "What's This?"

In general they are good kids that want to please us. They have gentle
and giving spirits BUT have inherited a mean stubborn streak from both
parents. I do not find I have to spank for many things. I usually
stick to safety issues. I will even admit to being over protective
wanting to keep a shorter leash on them then other people. Probably
most of the parents here would see my home and yard and be fine letting
their kids play here.

Tori
  #26  
Old July 10th 07, 06:57 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.parenting.spanking,misc.kids
Tori M[_2_]
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Posts: 79
Default What the Research Says About Physical Punishment


It's just so sick. I can see Homer Simpson using that to terrorize the
kids, "Don't play in the road or you will DIE!!!! And mommy and daddy will
be DESTROYED!!!!! And it will be ALL YOUR FAULT!!! That is what you get
for not listening to mommy and daddy -- you get DEAD!!!!!" because he is too
thick to find a gentler, more effective way to communicate with the kids.


Yes and those must be the exact wording I use. Umm try more like in a
sad quiet voice filled with concern. "Bonnie please don't play by the
road because you could get hurt by a car."
Bonnie having seen the animals on the road, we live in rural wisconsin,
"I could get dead?"
Me still using the same sad voice "Yes and mommy and daddy would really
miss you."
The end

We remind her of it before she goes out and then if she does not listen
in the heat of play. I think overall it is quieter then me yelling at
her to get her butt out of the road.


Get the books I reference above. Really.

If I think of it when my husband goes back to work I will look into
it. He was laid off yesterday.


Go to the library and get them. Your kids should go, too.
Tori


Go to your bedroom and look around, that is the size of the public
library. I will check for it but I will not be surprised if their
parenting section is just Dobson. We went to the library last week when
we went to the post office. That's when I realized I never knew where
it was because it is so tiny.


Tori

  #27  
Old July 10th 07, 07:17 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.parenting.spanking,misc.kids
Tori M[_2_]
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Posts: 79
Default What the Research Says About Physical Punishment

0:-] wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:25:29 -0500, Tori M
wrote:

Why then did you need to be spanked?

Oh I did not mean to imply that I was perfect. Just that I don't
remember getting spanked often but I do remember getting spanked. I had
my sons easy temperament without the boyish need to get into everything.
Or did you mean the spankings made you easy to correct?

No I was just easy to correct.
What about being spanked do you think made you like that?

Honestly the threat of a spanking was usually enough for me. i would
have to consult with my mother on that one. :P
Being "good" and feeling "guilty very easy," may not be all the useful
a set of skills in many circumstances.

I would turn myself in. I was no fun.

Tori, I've not suggested, I hope you noticed, and remember from my
prior postings on this subject, that children "have a say in
everything."

I must admit I usually shy away from the spanking posts. It seems
though the people that are the most against spankings believe that a
child should have the vote in many matters.


Tori, may I suggest you are seeing with a bias? In fact, there are a
rare few that have that attitude. We non-spankers, especially those of
us that are active advocates, do NOT try to sell that idea, because we
know of course it does not work.


I will admit I probably confuse disciplined in all manor with unspanked.

I have on the other hand
told a friend who's daughter is not being obedient that it might help to
find out what the girl thinks is a more appropriate punishment. I
personally think they ask too much of her. She is 9.


Oh...dear.

9 year olds are in the height of "fairness" thinking. And vulnerable
of course to being distracted from the real issue to "what would be a
fair punishment?"

What if the issue is as simple as just what YOU suggest? That they
need to think in terms of simplifying their exchange with her?


I am sure most of her issues stem from being overworked. I think a nine
year old should have chores but they give her far too many. I think she
also enjoys the attention for not doing her work. I was there one day
and the mom said to clean off the table for the 3rd time and I saw the
girl stand up so that her face was blocked from her mom and she just
smiled. Their 2nd daughter LOVES to clean. She will clean just for fun.

They need to learn how to encourage her to talk about the "situation,"
so they can determine if there is a simple answer, like, "No, mom and
dad, the reason I'm being so difficult is that I'm worried about
Sally, my friend, who is experimenting with boys and drinking."

Or words to that effect. Same goes for shopping trip meltdowns. I've
nothing against, and have done so myself, picking a kid up and taking
them out to the car. If they can't get themselves under control,
driving them home.

We do that at restaurants. My husband or I will take them to either the
bathroom or the car and calmly explain to them that they need to sit
down and eat quietly. They are fairly good at the store though we do
have running issues if we don't use those 2 kids carts.


Are YOU the one that's been bumping the heels of that old codger at
the checkout? I'm going to get you for that. 0;]


Actually my husband and I shop together. I stand near the kids and he
unloads the cart. :P I might have run over a few people before I had
kids though :P

Tori
  #28  
Old July 10th 07, 08:08 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.parenting.spanking,misc.kids
Rosalie B.
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Posts: 984
Default What the Research Says About Physical Punishment

Tori M wrote:

Go to the library and get them. Your kids should go, too.


Go to your bedroom and look around, that is the size of the public
library. I will check for it but I will not be surprised if their
parenting section is just Dobson. We went to the library last week when
we went to the post office. That's when I realized I never knew where
it was because it is so tiny.

We had a library about that size when we lived in RI. But I could
always request books from other libraries in the state. And I did a
lot of that. Still do even though we live where there is a bigger
library now. There's no charge if you have a library card and there's
usually no charge for the card. You may even be able to do it over
the internet.

  #29  
Old July 10th 07, 08:40 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.parenting.spanking,misc.kids
Stephanie[_2_]
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Posts: 693
Default What the Research Says About Physical Punishment


"Tori M" wrote in message
et...

Yes we taught them that if they play in the road they could become dead
and that Mommy and Daddy would be sad if they became dead. We also
explained that lesson about tying things to their necks. Maybe I am
paranoid after seeing a kid hit by a car in a driveway but I also do not
want them playing in my driveway.



That is a tad frightening. How old are your kids?


Old enough to have watched Bambi and The Lion King. Bonnie knows that
dead means you don't come back.
We have a nice amount of lawn for 2 kids to play in and that is the only
place I want them. We go out, when they do not obey me we go back in.



When they don't obey WHAT precisely?

The don't stay in the yard, they play in the driveway, they ride their
bike towards the road.

They run towards the road we go in they get spanked and then we explain
why and reinforce it by reminding them that mommy and Daddy do not want
them Dead.



They probablydont have the first earthly idea what dead is and no amount
of yammering will explain it the way you mean it.


Actually they do know what dead means.. But thank you.. at least Bonnie
does.



Not to get up in your face, I'll bet a dollar they don't *really*. But who
wants to test what they know about that, right?

Get the books I reference above. Really.


If I think of it when my husband goes back to work I will look into it. He
was laid off yesterday.

Tori



Well that stinks. Best of luck to you! That has got to be really hard.


  #30  
Old July 10th 07, 08:43 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.parenting.spanking,misc.kids
Stephanie[_2_]
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Posts: 693
Default What the Research Says About Physical Punishment


"0:-]" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:48:04 GMT, "Stephanie" wrote:


"0:-]" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:11:15 -0500, Tori M
wrote:



I dont think obedience is even a useful goal to have for your child. I
prefer to teach judgement.



I prefer that they obey until they learn judgment.

And until they do, spanking is the tool to teach them do obey you?

There are rules for a
reason.

Sure there are. And before a child can "reason" we have more choices
than simply hitting them to force them to obey.



I, for one, don't think that most rules are in place for a reason. Or at
least often not a defensible one. I have a funny approach. If I sound like
a
retard to myself trying to explain a rule to my kids, I rethink the rule.


Concept works for me.

By the way, it doesn't work very well.

If I tell my kids not to run in the road in front of cars I
would prefer they obey because the natural consequence of being hit by a
car is not something I am willing to risk.

Of course.

If your child is so young he lacks sufficient judgement, why is he
being allowed access to road traffic at all?

Are you not, as the parent, responsible for maintaining his safety,
even if it means fencing your yard, and putting a child proof latch on
the gate?



And there is absolutely nothing wrong with telling your child, you have
demonstrated to me that you lack sufficient self control to play in the
yard
yourself. Therefore you must wait until Mommy can supervise you. They then
KNOW what it is they are striving for... enough self control to be allowed
to play by themselves. You can begin to tell them what self control looks
like and feels like, etc..


In age appropriate language, of course, or you will be accused by the
twits present, as trying to "debate" your child into behaving.



Of course. The thing is, there is a time when a kid just does not KNOW what
is appropriae and a time when they know and are otherwise motivated.
Different "problems" require different solutions.

A common laughable attempt by them to avoid the obvious...that
non-spankers have a far larger repertoire than spankers do, usually.

Or if younger, simply keeping him attached to you physically where you
are on foot in traffic?

The whole talk to them and
eventually they will just do what is right because you talked their ear
off is bull.

Of course. You are correct. Where did you get the idea that talking is
the only thing other than spanking you can teach a child with?

I taught my children to stay out of traffic, at the appropriate age,
with the infamous "flat possum" lesson. It's yukky, but when
accompanied by a little talk and a few questions, like, "... do you
think the little possum's mommy will miss him? Will the little possum
be able to play with his little possum friends again? Ever? Will his
daddy (this while on the way to the store for a treat) ever be able to
buy him an ice cream cone again?



For me it was "you are much too precious for me to risk" combined with, IF
you cannot remain close to me on your own THEN you must ride in the
stroller. Or WHEN you have shown me that you can remain safely close to me
THEN you can walk without holding my hand. It takes a time or twenty for
you
to enforce stroller or hand holding. But they figger it.


And often enough time passes that it's more a matter of them growing
into the capacity to understand...though you certainly can lay down
the patterns you want them to understand later, now, when they are too
young to understand.

That's how children learn. They don't understand "Milk" "Cookie"
"hugs" the first time you use the word. And in fact may "babble" words
that have meaning to you, but none to them.



Yes aggreed.

And we know that by talking to a child, even if they do not understand
the word meanings, they learn to speak earlier.

I recommend this lesson no younger than five, and preferably six,
though one need not wait that long to begin.

And better, stop by with the kiddies for a few days to revisit the
flat possum. 0:]

Actually the consequence in my house for them not listening to me is we
don't go outside. They can not run into the road if I don't take them
out to play.

Tori

Kane


Why do you spank?



You're respondign to me? I slapped my son's diapered bottom once. He was
unaware it took place. I was horrified. I immediately began looking for
sources of information to change my patterns. I have never struck my
children since.


0:]



 




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