Spoiling a baby/attachment parenting

This issue was brought up in our birthing class the other night.

Basically...you can't spoil a baby. They do cry for a reason and when you
respond they learn a bit more of trust. When your baby cries, go ahead and
pick her up!

I think that you can say something family/friends who are making comments.
Another poster (either Donna or Leslie) wrote some comments down that were
really nice and inoffensive.

You can't spoil a newborn. They cry for a reason. Good job and hearing her
cues and responding to her.

--
M~Elizabeth

To thine own self be true

"Jill" wrote in message
om...
This debate is raging around my house. Extended family, who had babies in
a
different era, are insisting we need to nip things in the bud. I want some
opinions. And yep-- I own Dr. Sears "The Baby Book" and think attachment
parenting is the style for me.


"My parenting ideas are as flawed and crazy as anyone else's." Lather,
rinse, repeat.


So people are telling us things that I'm sure you all can guess. "You've
got
to get her used to her crib." "You've got to teach her to stay put down or
you'll never get anything done besides her."

When Meg was little, I could accomplish pretty much anything while slinging
her. Now that she's 20 pounds, she's more than happy playing by herself a
good bit of the time. And remember when they get older, they go down for
long naps.

"You get her started sleeping
in your bed and you will have big problems getting her out!" (again-- she
is
2 weeks old!! not 2 years old).

There is no sweeter time to be a parent than when your child is asleep.
They are so cute when they are sleeping. Why would I want her in another
room??? As long as she isn't kicking me in the head, she can stay as long
as she wants. If I have babies 15 mos apart, I rather imagine both will
stay with us until BOTH are ready to share a separate bed, together. What
will that make Meg, three or four?

"When you pick her up everytime she cries,
she will start crying every time you put her down." etc etc. "You are
creating a spoiled young 'un".


It's insecure, unattached children that are clingy. JUST WAIT until you
want to cuddle her and she pushes you away

It would be psycholigically abusive to "train" an infant to not need her
mother's presence and touch. When they feel loved, they grow independent
much too quickly.

-- Dagny
Mom to Meg, 10/03
EDD 1/19/05

Jill wrote:


Opinions? Am I doing her harm, spoiling her, creating a monster? IMO--No!
It's my very nature to parent her this way, my instinct. To me, it's just
being sensitive to her needs. And I think her needs are acceptable, normal,
and fine! What do people think she supposed to do, NOT want to be held? But
anyway, MIL/FIL didn't raise their kids in this style and even my parents
tell me we need to put her down and get her used to it.

It won't do a darned thing to put her down and let
her cry at this stage. Personally, I don't subscribe to
any particular brand of parenting. I believe in doing
what works and meets the needs of everyone involved. Here
is what worked for us:

1) I don't think it does any good to put a newborn down
and let her cry. That doesn't "get her used to it."
It tells her that people won't meet her needs, which
makes her *more* likely to cry.

2) On the other hand, I don't carry my babies all the
time either. I put them down frequently when I have
something to do. If they fuss, I pick them back up
again. If not, I leave them down for a bit so I can
get X done. This gives them the *opportunity* to
develop some comfort with being put down a bit WHEN
they're happy to be put down a bit. If you are
always carrying them, then the carrying can become
a habit after a while and they can be uncomfortable
with not being carried simply because it's so
unfamiliar. But I think it's pretty much intuitively
obvious that having them spend time wailing is not
the way to win them over to enjoying being put down.

3) I generally put my babes to sleep in their own cradle/
crib. HOWEVER, at times I would cuddle them to sleep,
or keep them in bed after a nighttime feeding or
whatever. I chose that because it works best for me
and my kids didn't complain. I don't think that
co-sleeping presents any issues before six months or
so. After that, I think you run the risk of building
a long term habit. If you are fine with longer term
co-sleeping, then no problem. If you do not want to
be co-sleeping at a year/eighteen months, then I think
you're best off to wean off of it around six months
or the transition is likely to be more difficult.

4) Babies can't manipulate in the sense of deciding
to engage in a behavior designed to get you to do
something you don't want to do. They do develop
routines/habits/preferences. So I don't think the
issue is completely black and white. As an example,
I do not think that you can spoil a baby by picking
her up when she cries. I *do* think that if you
never put the child down, over time you make it
increasingly more likely that she will cry if you
do put her down (because it becomes unfamiliar).
That is a big of a chicken and egg issue, and it's
something where it's much harder to fix a problem
that has developed than to avoid the problem in the
first place. That's why I always put babies down
for a few seconds here or there when they're content
to be put down. It gives them a little practice
that you can build on over time, but the key is that
it only helps if they actually *are* content while
they're down. You could also ask what the heck you
do with a baby who is *never* content to be put down.
I haven't a clue. Mine have always been willing, even
if only for 15-30 seconds in the beginning.

And, of course, I think it's completely and totally ridiculous
to worry about this sort of thing before 6 weeks. I don't
know why anyone would put such a wee one down, except maybe
while they're sleeping. They're too darned cute not to
cuddle.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Jill:
It sounds like you really have your hands full at your house, having to
justify your decisions all the time!

However, it sounds like you did learn something important during your first
week of BFing....you have to stand up for what you believe in. When you
have family that is not supportive of BFing or co-sleeping (which can be
extremely beneficial to the BFing relationship, plus make for a well-rested
mom) you have to stand your ground. They are trying to make you panic about
the harm your decisions might cause. You now know formula was completely
not necessary and indeed may have been harmful itself: Small wonder your
milk took a while to come in! And just because your baby gulps formula
hungrily does not mean she needs it or wants it. But now you know that your
inital instincts were right. Have the courage of your convictions! Do not
argue with these people. Constant repititon of; "How interesting! I'll
keep that in mind!" to unwanted advice destined to sidetrack you will
eventually get the point across (or drive them crazy!) But do not give in.

It is just ridiculous to think you could spoil a newborn. I wouldn't give
it another thought. I am a firm believer that when you fulfill your
children's needs, you build secure children who can move on to meet new
milestones. My first two children BF'ed till past age two. Baby hood was
spent in my bed. Over age one, I started them out in their own cribs/rooms,
but always ended up spending part of the night sleeping with them if they
woke up to nurse at night. Past age 2.5, each was weaned ( one self weaned,
one with some help!) and sleeping the entire night alone. A couple of days
of transition, and they were fine. Once they no longer needed co-sleeping
and BFing, they never looked back - since those days, they have always gone
promptly to bed and slept through the night. We have never had to sit in
their rooms while they went to sleep nor have we had little visitors in our
room in the middle of the night (night terrors aside).

I now have a 7 month old and can't imagine parenting any other way. My
litte one is not as taken with co-sleeping and prefers to sleep alone part
of the night. He usually starts out in his crib (in my room) and then joins
me later in the night for BFing. Sometimes he spends the rest of the night
with me, sometimes he gets restless and ends up back in his crib. I have
complete confidence that once again, if I follow his lead and work with it,
he will end up being a competent sleeper like his siblings.

Of course a newborn wants to be held! Eventually, she is likely to settle
down and accept periods of being away from you. Personally, my baby has
deeply enjoyed his aquarium bouncer, a fine resting place while I deal with
the other kids and household chores. Follow her lead like you are doing and
you'll both be fine!

Best wishes,
Karen

Jill wrote:
This debate is raging around my house. Extended family, who had babies in a
different era, are insisting we need to nip things in the bud. I want some
opinions. And yep-- I own Dr. Sears "The Baby Book" and think attachment
parenting is the style for me.


You know, I'd give you advice but you so obviously don't need it. :P
Sounds like you're doing an EXCELLENT job. You mind and heart are
exactly where they should be. So keep doing exactly what you're doing.
And no, there's no way you can spoil a 2 week old baby. *shaking head*
People can be such dorks.

~Daednu

"Jill" wrote in message
om...
This debate is raging around my house. Extended family, who had babies in
a
different era, are insisting we need to nip things in the bud. I want some
opinions. And yep-- I own Dr. Sears "The Baby Book" and think attachment
parenting is the style for me.

I feel so close and in tune with my baby and breastfeeding is enhancing
that
bond. I never thought I'd cosleep but that is wonderful. And she's NEW-
she's just 2 weeks old! When she cries she always has a need. Her diaper
needs changing, she's hungry, cold/hot, or sometimes, she just wants to be
held. She WILL stay put down -- on my bed. She doesn't like the crib, and
she halfway tolerates the PackNPlay's bassinett which is right beside the
bed. I just think she wants to be put down where she realizes mommy and
daddy are close or come around often. Her crib is not as cozy IMO and
that's
why she doesn't like it-- and we don't hang around in the nursery, there
is
nowhere to sit.

People are insisting I am spoiling her. I believe you can't spoil babies.
I
mean, do you BLAME them for wanting to be held and feel safe and secure
and
comforted???? When she cries and all other needs have been met, and I pick
her up and stroke her and cuddle her, she smiles-- at 2 weeks old! And
goes
right off to sleep cooing.

So people are telling us things that I'm sure you all can guess. "You've
got
to get her used to her crib." "You've got to teach her to stay put down or
you'll never get anything done besides her." "You get her started sleeping
in your bed and you will have big problems getting her out!" (again-- she
is
2 weeks old!! not 2 years old). "When you pick her up everytime she cries,
she will start crying every time you put her down." etc etc. "You are
creating a spoiled young 'un".

I so disagree! People act like the little 2 week old munchkin is being
manipulative or something. I do NOT think cosleeping with a breastfeeding
newborn is going to cause her to be 4 years old and not wanting to leave
mom
and daddy's bed. I think in time, she WILL use her crib, when she is a
little older. I plan to cosleep with her while breastfeeding and she needs
to eat in the night. What are your opinions on this? I know what Dr. Sears
says but that's not convincing the extended family or my husband. My
husband
thinks it IS spoiling her but he knows he himself can't help treating her
this way either, he hates to hear her cry, but his parents keep insisting
to
him that we are doing it wrong and setting ourselves up for a big PITA one
day soon with a toddler who is needy and clingy. They need to butt out.
They
are SO sure this is spoiling the baby, I will never get them to see any
differing opinion.

I have to admit-- Rachel DOES cry when she doesn't want anything other
than
to be held. She doesn't always WANT to sleep alone, laid down...she wants
to
sleep in my arms or in my husband's lap. She will go out like a light with
one of us holding her no matter how noisy the room is. She doesn't comfort
suck much, but she does get a lot of comfort in nursing. (it's just that
she's always latched on and eating-- not just improperly latched and
comfort
sucking)...

Opinions? Am I doing her harm, spoiling her, creating a monster? IMO--No!
It's my very nature to parent her this way, my instinct. To me, it's just
being sensitive to her needs. And I think her needs are acceptable,
normal,
and fine! What do people think she supposed to do, NOT want to be held?
But
anyway, MIL/FIL didn't raise their kids in this style and even my parents
tell me we need to put her down and get her used to it.

You know it doesn't matter what they insist, I am going to keep treating
my
baby the same, because I can't help it!

Jill



Spoiling a baby is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. Babies are
babies and want to be held and loved. You are on the right track with your
parenting skills. Dont listen to those outdated and old styles of parenting.
Attachment parenting is awesome!

Cherie
mom to Jakob (21 months)
baby Grace EDD 8/6/04

"Jamie Clark" wrote
I think the only person you really have to make sure is convinces is your
husband. Make sure he reads all the passages in the Sears books that deal
with this.
--

He just encourages me to put her down and get her used to it, so that I can
get something done or have time for myself. What I said to him was "Oh, ok,
well if you listen to everyone else that means YOU let her cry, don't hold
her, etc. You don't want to spoil your daughter." Point was taken- husband
said "Well ..........of course, I know, if that's spoiling her then I am
going to be spoiling her." lol.

"Jill" wrote in message
om...
snip

Opinions? Am I doing her harm, spoiling her, creating a monster? IMO--No!
It's my very nature to parent her this way, my instinct. To me, it's just
being sensitive to her needs. And I think her needs are acceptable,
normal,
and fine! What do people think she supposed to do, NOT want to be held?
But
anyway, MIL/FIL didn't raise their kids in this style and even my parents
tell me we need to put her down and get her used to it.

You know it doesn't matter what they insist, I am going to keep treating
my
baby the same, because I can't help it!

You do that Jill - its not possible to "spoil" a baby with too much
attention ... that's how this whole species survival thingy works with
mammals.
Have you noticed calves, lambs and foals are always about 2ft away from
their mothers? Better yet - female Australian marsupials (specialised
mammals) come equipped with a baby sling (ie pouch).

FWIW I spent the first 11-12 months with DD just about permanently in my
arms for (breast)feeds and sleeps, and she is a very content, inquisitive,
independent, confident little girl now. She sleeps in our bed - sure - but
she has also slept through the night (and I'm talking 8pm to 6am here)
pretty regularly since then. I'm fairly confident that she won't want to
sleep in our bed when she's a teenager She did enjoy sleeping in her
bassinet (soft, warm and cosy ... and in arm's reach) when she was a baby,
but her cot has always been more of play area than a sleeping area.

You'll get sick of repeating yourself, but trust your own instincts ... just
because your parents did something doesn't mean it was right
.... alternatively you might need to invest in a pair of my patented "crap
filters" ... they are free, they tune out all unwanted advice and come with
the phrase "thanks for telling me" and walking away

Amanda

--
DD 15th August 2002
1 tiny angel Nov 2003
EDD 19th August 2004

"A&G&K" wrote in message
...

"Jill" wrote in message
om...
snip

Opinions? Am I doing her harm, spoiling her, creating a monster?
IMO--No!
It's my very nature to parent her this way, my instinct. To me, it's
just
being sensitive to her needs. And I think her needs are acceptable,
normal,
and fine! What do people think she supposed to do, NOT want to be held?
But
anyway, MIL/FIL didn't raise their kids in this style and even my
parents
tell me we need to put her down and get her used to it.

You know it doesn't matter what they insist, I am going to keep
treating
my
baby the same, because I can't help it!

You do that Jill - its not possible to "spoil" a baby with too much
attention ... that's how this whole species survival thingy works with
mammals.
Have you noticed calves, lambs and foals are always about 2ft away from
their mothers? Better yet - female Australian marsupials (specialised
mammals) come equipped with a baby sling (ie pouch).

FWIW I spent the first 11-12 months with DD just about permanently in my
arms for (breast)feeds and sleeps, and she is a very content, inquisitive,
independent, confident little girl now. She sleeps in our bed - sure -
but
she has also slept through the night (and I'm talking 8pm to 6am here)
pretty regularly since then. I'm fairly confident that she won't want to
sleep in our bed when she's a teenager She did enjoy sleeping in her
bassinet (soft, warm and cosy ... and in arm's reach) when she was a baby,
but her cot has always been more of play area than a sleeping area.

You'll get sick of repeating yourself, but trust your own instincts ...
just
because your parents did something doesn't mean it was right
... alternatively you might need to invest in a pair of my patented "crap
filters" ... they are free, they tune out all unwanted advice and come
with
the phrase "thanks for telling me" and walking away

Amanda

--
DD 15th August 2002
1 tiny angel Nov 2003
EDD 19th August 2004



Forgot to add there is another great book / web page you might like to check
out : http://www.pinky-mychild.com/
I'm going to buy some of her books this time around ("Parenting by Heart"
and "100 ways to calm the crying").

Here's a little of what she has to say about "spoiling" a crying baby:

'Respond quickly: You can't spoil a little baby, but if you leave her to
cry, she will become more upset as her crying picks up momentum. Soon she
won't even know why she was crying in the first place -she will just be
crying because she can't stop and will be much harder to settle. If you are
breastfeeding, it is particularly important to respond quickly to hunger
cues: a baby who is left to work up to a full-blown cry will have a more
disorganised suck and may have difficulty latching on correctly, or she may
only suck for a short time before she falls asleep with exhaustion.'

The other info I was going to mention (which might be worth giving to your
in-laws / parnets to read) is some info on the psychological effects of
controlled crying (ie crying it out whilst getting used to the cot).
http://www.aeca.org.au/Controled%20Crying.pdf

Hang in there
Amanda

--
DD 15th August 2002
1 tiny angel Nov 2003
EDD 19th August 2004

"A&G&K" wrote in message
...

You'll get sick of repeating yourself, but trust your own instincts ...
just
because your parents did something doesn't mean it was right
... alternatively you might need to invest in a pair of my patented "crap
filters" ... they are free, they tune out all unwanted advice and come
with
the phrase "thanks for telling me" and walking away

Alternatively, there is the slightly more blunt approach:

"You raised your child, now I am raising mine. I am the one who lives with
her, and I choose what behaviors I am willing to accept. In return, I will
have to live with the consequences. Thank you for your concern."

Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Memorize it. Eventually they'll get disgusted and
shut up, but at least they'll shut up.

--angela