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Does "no presents" really mean that?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 4th 03, 11:22 AM
D&K Condron
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Default Does "no presents" really mean that?

I recently went to a child's birthday party that requested no presents, but
a dish of something yummy to share instead.

Well, out of 8 moms invited, I was the *only* one who did not bring a gift.
Did I miss something? I admit that I am new at the mommy thing, but to be
the only one who did as instructed? I am very confused.

What do the rest of you think "no presents" means? What would you have
done?

Kat


  #2  
Old July 4th 03, 12:54 PM
just me
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Default Does "no presents" really mean that?


"D&K Condron" wrote in message
...
I recently went to a child's birthday party that requested no presents,

but
a dish of something yummy to share instead.

Well, out of 8 moms invited, I was the *only* one who did not bring a

gift.
Did I miss something? I admit that I am new at the mommy thing, but to be
the only one who did as instructed? I am very confused.

What do the rest of you think "no presents" means? What would you have
done?



It means no presents, but some people just can't believe that people mean
that. We just attended a big big 50th wedding anniversary party. The
honorees had specified "no presents". I overheard one complain to the other
as someone left a gift on a table for them that now they knew which of their
friends couldn't read. They really meant it. Any other event I've been to
where the invitation had specified "no presents" also meant it. Maybe Miss
Manners has a suggestion on how to gift someone even if they said that on an
invitation, but I haven't read that particular column.

-Aula


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  #3  
Old July 4th 03, 04:42 PM
Cathy Kearns
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Default Does "no presents" really mean that?

Miss Manners would point out that presents should never be expected,
and telling guests that normally they are expected, but not this time
by writing "no presents" on an invitation, no matter how well
intentioned, is rude. I would also presume that making disparaging
remarks about guests who could not contain their joy about their
dear friends' occasion without bringing them a token would also
be considered rude.

However, it you really want to get out of getting presents, I've found
throwing a "summer pool party" or having a few friends over for a
sleep over, without mentioning the words "birthday", "graduation",
"anniversary", or "wedding" often will do the trick.

"just me" wrote in message
m...

"D&K Condron" wrote in message
...
I recently went to a child's birthday party that requested no presents,

but
a dish of something yummy to share instead.

Well, out of 8 moms invited, I was the *only* one who did not bring a

gift.
Did I miss something? I admit that I am new at the mommy thing, but to

be
the only one who did as instructed? I am very confused.

What do the rest of you think "no presents" means? What would you have
done?



It means no presents, but some people just can't believe that people mean
that. We just attended a big big 50th wedding anniversary party. The
honorees had specified "no presents". I overheard one complain to the

other
as someone left a gift on a table for them that now they knew which of

their
friends couldn't read. They really meant it. Any other event I've been

to
where the invitation had specified "no presents" also meant it. Maybe

Miss
Manners has a suggestion on how to gift someone even if they said that on

an
invitation, but I haven't read that particular column.

-Aula


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 6/18/03


  #4  
Old July 4th 03, 06:15 PM
Penny Gaines
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Posts: n/a
Default Does "no presents" really mean that?

D&K Condron wrote in :

I recently went to a child's birthday party that requested no presents,
but a dish of something yummy to share instead.

Well, out of 8 moms invited, I was the *only* one who did not bring a
gift.
Did I miss something? I admit that I am new at the mommy thing, but to be
the only one who did as instructed? I am very confused.

What do the rest of you think "no presents" means? What would you have
done?


I wouldn't have taken a present either. Well, I might have done, but only
if I'd have given a present if there wasn't a party.

Did the other mums bring some food?

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

  #5  
Old July 4th 03, 06:17 PM
Chris Smith
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Default Does "no presents" really mean that?

Cathy Kearns wrote:
Miss Manners would point out that presents should never be expected,
and telling guests that normally they are expected, but not this time
by writing "no presents" on an invitation, no matter how well
intentioned, is rude.


Really? Seems to me that whatever "should" be expected, presents ARE
expected. It's certainly NOT going to work for those persons who want
to avoid presents to just not mention anything and assume that people
won't bring gifts. I'm curious what you think the polite way would be
to handle this situation.

I'm assuming that it's already been decided that the child should not
receive gifts from everyone. There are very good reasons for such a
decision. The "just let people bring gifts and be polite about it"
approach may work for adults who are celebrating a wedding anniversary,
but it does NOT work for young children who learn very questionable
values when their special days are all marked with blatant consumerism,
materialism, and piles of flashy toys -- half of which they will then
forget about the very next day.

I can only say that I would *never* feel offended in any way to receive
an invitation that specified "no presents".

However, it you really want to get out of getting presents, I've found
throwing a "summer pool party" or having a few friends over for a
sleep over, without mentioning the words "birthday", "graduation",
"anniversary", or "wedding" often will do the trick.


Then it's not really a birthday party, is it? It's just any old normal
playdate.

--
www.designacourse.com
The Easiest Way to Train Anyone... Anywhere.

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation

  #6  
Old July 4th 03, 07:08 PM
Brian Edmonds
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Default Does "no presents" really mean that?

Chris Smith writes, regarding how one can politely (a
la Miss Manners) request no presents at a party:
I'm curious what you think the polite way would be to handle this
situation.


I'd be tempted to write a small essay myself, but I tend to be wierd.

Dear Shmoo,

I would be very pleased if you and your mugwump, parent of choice
would attend my birthday party. It will be held on date at some
place. We'll be touring the Antarctic ice sheet, so be sure to dress
warmly. Afterwards we'll be having hot chocolate and crumpets.

Since I just want all my friends to relax, play, and have a good time,
please don't worry about bringing a present. I have enough trouble
keeping the dust bunnies in my room under control without more stuff.
I know Miss Manners says this is a rude thing to say, since it implies
that a present would otherwise be expected, but really, how many
birthday parties have we been to where bringing a present hasn't been
the normal thing to do? I have no idea what world she was living in.

I look forward to seeing you at some place on date. Please let my
heffalump, parent of choice know if you can't make it.

Your friend, Shmoo.

Brian.

  #7  
Old July 4th 03, 07:08 PM
Kevin Karplus
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Posts: n/a
Default Does "no presents" really mean that?

In article , just me wrote:
... Maybe Miss
Manners has a suggestion on how to gift someone even if they said that on an
invitation, but I haven't read that particular column.


Miss Manners has said that "no presents" on an invitation is not
really apropriate, as an invitation is NEVER to be used as a request
for presents.

I believe that it is impolite to bring a present to an event for which
the invitation explicitly says "no presents". If you wish to give a
present, it should be separately delivered or mailed at a different
time.


--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

  #8  
Old July 4th 03, 08:08 PM
dragonlady
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Posts: n/a
Default Does "no presents" really mean that?

In article ,
"just me" wrote:

"D&K Condron" wrote in message
...
I recently went to a child's birthday party that requested no presents,

but
a dish of something yummy to share instead.

Well, out of 8 moms invited, I was the *only* one who did not bring a

gift.
Did I miss something? I admit that I am new at the mommy thing, but to be
the only one who did as instructed? I am very confused.

What do the rest of you think "no presents" means? What would you have
done?



It means no presents, but some people just can't believe that people mean
that. We just attended a big big 50th wedding anniversary party. The
honorees had specified "no presents". I overheard one complain to the other
as someone left a gift on a table for them that now they knew which of their
friends couldn't read. They really meant it. Any other event I've been to
where the invitation had specified "no presents" also meant it. Maybe Miss
Manners has a suggestion on how to gift someone even if they said that on an
invitation, but I haven't read that particular column.



As others have pointed out, Miss Manners says it is improper to put "no
presents" on an invitation, therefore there IS no "proper" response.

Personally, I would not give a regular gift, nor would I feel guilty
about not giving one. Depending upon the person and how well I knew
them, I might find a way to do something out of the ordinary to
recognize the event, but it would have to be something not wrapped and
not presented at the party.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

  #9  
Old July 4th 03, 08:14 PM
Banty
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Posts: n/a
Default Does "no presents" really mean that?

In article , Chris says...

Cathy Kearns wrote:
Miss Manners would point out that presents should never be expected,
and telling guests that normally they are expected, but not this time
by writing "no presents" on an invitation, no matter how well
intentioned, is rude.


Really? Seems to me that whatever "should" be expected, presents ARE
expected. It's certainly NOT going to work for those persons who want
to avoid presents to just not mention anything and assume that people
won't bring gifts. I'm curious what you think the polite way would be
to handle this situation.


The problem is that a lot of manners have broken down as far as how much they're
understood or followed. Officially, one does not have any obigation whatsoever
to bring a present to a birthday party, and the party giver should have no
expectation whatsoever that any present arrive with the guests. If any presents
should arrive, therefore the party giver is surprised and honored and tickled
that someone would go through such an effort, and to discourage that kind of
good effort and intention in any way would be rude and work against what is good
in people in general.

Officially.

Of course, IRL most b-day party givers *do* expect presents (or at least make
provision for their reception), and party goers feel obligated to bring presents
as some kind of payment for the party, or the idea that it was always that way,
like wedding showers. And, even if they *knew* better, and weren't moved to
give a gift, they know full well that this misunderstanding is so ubiquitous
that they feel they'd *better* bring a gift else be the only ones who didn't.



I'm assuming that it's already been decided that the child should not
receive gifts from everyone. There are very good reasons for such a
decision. The "just let people bring gifts and be polite about it"
approach may work for adults who are celebrating a wedding anniversary,
but it does NOT work for young children who learn very questionable
values when their special days are all marked with blatant consumerism,
materialism, and piles of flashy toys -- half of which they will then
forget about the very next day.


I feel your pain. Once I got around it in on way by saying on the invite that
my son likes books, and got presents that are more worthwhile or at least more
stackable :-)
But I've since learned that *that* is rude, given the official scenario - sort
of like saying "let's go to the movies I like Chinese food", putting it on my
companion to buy me some dinner.

This sort of thing, and some of the (when my son was younger) silliness about
who is invited and who isn't, and how "all the kids" are supposed to be invited,
etc., etc., led me to establish a family birthday tradition of doing a birthday
*trip* to somewhere my son wanted to go, since his birthday usually lands in a
long weekend for our school district.


I can only say that I would *never* feel offended in any way to receive
an invitation that specified "no presents".

However, it you really want to get out of getting presents, I've found
throwing a "summer pool party" or having a few friends over for a
sleep over, without mentioning the words "birthday", "graduation",
"anniversary", or "wedding" often will do the trick.


Then it's not really a birthday party, is it? It's just any old normal
playdate.


... that only a few intimates need know is a birthday celebration. This does
work fairly well. Also, one can hold really small birthday celebrations
including a movie or some other outing, and hold the Stuff Extravaganza down to
an acceptable level that way.

Banty

  #10  
Old July 4th 03, 10:06 PM
dragonlady
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Posts: n/a
Default Does "no presents" really mean that?



In article , Chris says...
Cathy Kearns wrote:
Miss Manners would point out that presents should never be expected,
and telling guests that normally they are expected, but not this time
by writing "no presents" on an invitation, no matter how well
intentioned, is rude.


Really? Seems to me that whatever "should" be expected, presents ARE
expected. It's certainly NOT going to work for those persons who want
to avoid presents to just not mention anything and assume that people
won't bring gifts. I'm curious what you think the polite way would be
to handle this situation.


There are a number of things I've done.

1 - My kids know not to expect an annual birthday party. On the years
that we don't throw one, we still have a family birthday dinner. They
are allowed to invite a friend or two -- but by inviting their friends
to dinner on their birthday rather than a birthday party, their friends
don't feel obligated to bring a present. In fact, it has been my
experience that gifts under those circumstances are rare. Sometimes
parents have called to clarify, and I emphasize that it is NOT a
birthday party, just a birthday dinner, and that while my children might
get some gifts from family members, they are NOT expecting their dinner
guests to bring anything. Rather, their friend's presence is the only
"gift" they are expecting.

2 - Sometimes, we give the kids the gift of a birthday outing (movies,
skating, bowling, swimming, whatever) to which they are allowed to
invite friends. However, again, since we don't call it a "birthday
party" it seems to get around the gift expectation. The invitations
are less formal -- nothing is mailed out. Depending on how old the kids
have been, either they or I make phone calls to the parents or the kids,
and the verbal invitation is worded fairly carefully. "For my birthday,
my mom is letting me take some friends skating on Saturday; would you
like to come with us?" We carefully avoid the word "party". Again,
sometimes a few friends have turned up with gifts, but we are careful to
avoid making a Big Deal of opening them, and to reassure the ones who
DON'T bring anything that we are delighted they are there and we were
not expecting anything.

3 - I have, on occassion, invited people over without mentioning that it
was someone's birthday, and hauled out a birthday cake at the end of a
meal. Some people get offended: "If I'd known, I'd have brought a
gift!" We point out that that is exactly WHY they didn't know in
advance. It seems to work out most of the time, but does seem to annoy
some people.

4 - While I've never done it, I've seen some invitations that ask for
something specific, but not costly. For example, an invitation for a
going away party might ask us each to bring a collage or a letter or
something for a scrapbook that will be a joint gift; on one occassion,
I actually got two sheets of paper that had been specifically set up for
my child's name and address and picture; I don't remember what the
second sheet was for -- maybe just a collage or something. Sometimes,
some people still bring other gifts, but by explaining that we will be
collectively making something that will be particularly meaningful, it
seems to get around the "obligatory" gift expectation.

I hate how Big and Expensive and Obligatory kids' birthday parties have
become -- both to throw and to attend. I'd love to find a way to cut
that back, but not at the expense of tossing out generally accepted
manners -- and that means NOT saying "no gifts" on the invitations.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

 




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