Autism message

In article . com,
wrote:
CWatters wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
It was found in Japan that cilantro can
chelate mercury.

What else does it chelate?

Other heavy metals, I believe. (But according
to various sources, the US thimerosal removal
wasn't actually performed in 1999 as advertised, so
there is no need yet to look for other agents.)

Ooh, "various sources." Well, there's a nice, definitive statement,
isn't it? God forbid you should tell us what these "various sources,"
are, lest we find out you're just blowing smoke.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your killfile."
-- Anon.

"Rich" wrote in message
...

"LadyLollipop" wrote in message
news:5maOe.269691$x96.156297@attbi_s72...

"Jeff" wrote in message
nk.net...

Too bad *organized medicine* is so far outdated, they don't know the
simple things.

There is no such thing as "*organized medicine*" until you give meaning to
the term by defining it, Jan.


Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 17 for joshew@ hawaii . rr .
com There is no such thing as *organized medicine * (0.52 seconds)



Thimerosal, found in childhood vaccines, can increase the risk of
autism-like damage in mice

"Autism-like" is a subjective judgement with political overtones, not an
objective observation. The term is clear evidence of the authors' bias.

Searched all groups Results 1 - 4 of 4 for joshew@ hawaii . rr . com
authors ' bias . (0.08 seconds)




Cost and waste of time and money. Unless you provide compelling evidence
that these things really work.

ZZzz.

*Substantial* *real* *solid* *convincing* *hard* *clear-cut* *reasonable*
*significant* *credibile* *compelling* *copious* *direct*

Insubstantial, imaginary, mushy, unconvincing, soft, vague, unreasonable,
insignificant, incredible, inconclusive, scant, and indirect evidences are
good enough for you, then, Jan?

Nope.

http://www.algonet.se/~leif/FUSCIFCT.html

Scientifically Proven Facts




No one. What one cares about is evidence. So far you have offered none.

All you have offered is pat replies numbers 5732748732748374, as I have
just shown.

snip the usual offered insult

--Rich

"Jeff" wrote in message
nk.net...

"LadyLollipop" wrote in message
news:5maOe.269691$x96.156297@attbi_s72...

snip Jeff showing his butt?

If mercury is the culprit, and you do NOT try
a cure, you have hurt your child's future.

Considering all of the evidence that autism is NOT caused by mercury, this
is a huge "if."


It is peoples' children!!!!!!!!!!

Consider ALL.



Let us find out the risk.

It was found in Japan that cilantro can
chelate mercury. Reports also say that
chlorella can help in the chelation process.

Peer-reviewed references that they actually help when given as directed.

Too bad *organized medicine* is so far outdated, they don't know the
simple things.

http://www.drlaurathompson.com/scicn...tal%20Toxicity

The reason they don't know these simple things is that these simple things
are false. Heavy metal poisoning does not cause ADHD or autism.

You are in denial, Jeff.

http://www.healingwithnutrition.com/...cexposure.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller14.html

http://www.testfoundation.org/thimerosal.htm

http://www.testfoundation.org/aluminumvaccines.htm

However, selling a variety of products does help the sponsor of web pages
make money.

Health Articles by Dr. Laura Thompson



N-acetylcysteine in capsule form promotes detoxification of the liver
by enhancing the synthesis of glutathione. The herb and food (or spice)
cilantro, often referred to as coriander, is excellent for detoxifying
metals from the body as are most high chlorophyll-containing foods.
Coriander is especially good for detoxifying mercury from the body.

For this to work for autism, three things would have to be true:

1) Autism would have to be caused by heavy metals.

2) Damage has to be ongoing from the heavy metals. Even if mercury causes
autism, once the symptoms start, it may be too late to reverse them.

3) The product advertised would actually have to work.




Cilantro is a mild herb used for thousands
of years, like thyme/oregano/parsley etc. It
is not going to hurt your child. Chlorella is
some sort of algae, and no study says it is
harmful. Chemical analysis shows it has a lot
of good nutrients. Several millions of Japanese
have been eating it every day. So even if it
did nothing else, it ought to improve your
child's health a little.

So will a good diet and excercise.

I does NOT chelate mercury from the body.

I never claimed that it does.


So you feed your child cilantro and chlorella
for a month, and you are wrong about mercury,
and nothing happens. Big deal. So you paid a
little bit of money for a bunch of cilantro from
your grocery store, and some money for chlorella
from your local natural food store. You also
had to work a bit on your kid to feed the
cilantro and chlorella. What have you
really lost?

Time and money that can be used for college.\

Your child dies before the age of college.\

Unlikely. Even kids with autism sometimes go to college. And most kids are
capable of going to college.

Oh? Cite evidence, please.




Cliantro and chlorella are basically food,
not medicines. An honest pediatrician cannot
stop you from trying this, anymore than
they can stop you from feeding your
child spinach and apples.

But an honest pediatician would tell you you are wasting your time.

Wrong, that would be lying.

Provide me with the peer-reviewed evidence that cliantro and chlorella
really does anything to help kids with autism.

I have provided you with truth about peer-reviewed. You have a closed mind.


Let us say you did this for a month, and
nothing happened. You are no worse.

And if you did this for a month, and if you see
a "shock to the system" recovery, what have
you gained?

Except that mercury is NOT the cause of autism.

ZZzz.

BTW, Jeff, NEWFLASH, mice are used for research.

I am quite well aware of that.

Uh huh. Sure you are.

*Should I ever get a pet female rat, I will be sure to take this into
account*
..
*If I ever get mice, I will be sure to not vaccinate them*.

Copyrighted material deleted.

Jeff

Study restored:

http://www.flu.org.cn/news/2004986362.htm
Thimerosal,New study reopens debate on vaccinations
Published: Sep ,8,2004 16:21 PM
By ###
Special to The Wall Street Journal & Medicalnewstoday

By Tara Parker-Pope
The Wall Street Journal


Just a few months after the nation's top medical adviser rejected a link
between vaccines and autism, a mouse study has reignited the debate and
raised new fears among parents considering vaccinations and flu shots for
their kids.


For years, a cadre of parents and physicians have contended that thimerosal,
an ethyl-mercury compound that has been one of the most widely used vaccine
preservatives, is partly responsible for an apparent rise in autism in
recent decades. But broad population studies haven't supported the claim. In
May, a major report from the Institute of Medicine's Immunization Safety
Review Committee rejected a link between autism and vaccines.


But today, a congressional committee will review a June study from Columbia
University, which found that a preservative used in vaccines can cause
autism-like symptoms in a specific strain of mice. The research raises
questions about whether some people might be genetically vulnerable to the
effects of thimerosal.


The study also raises questions about a new push by the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention to add flu shots to the immunization schedule for
school-age kids. The vast majority of flu shots given still contain the
preservative.


In the study, researchers administered thimerosal to four strains of young
mice. Three of the mice strains were unaffected by thimerosal, but the
fourth developed problems consistent with autism such as delayed growth,
social withdrawal and brain abnormalities. The mice were known to have a
genetic susceptibility to mercury.


Thimerosal, found in childhood vaccines, can increase the risk of
autism-like damage in mice


A new study indicates that postnatal exposure to thimerosal, a mercury
preservative commonly used in a number of childhood vaccines, can lead to
the development of autism-like damage in autoimmune disease susceptible
mice. This animal model, the first to show that the administration of
low-dose ethylmercury can lead to behavioral and neurological changes in the
developing brain, reinforces previous studies showing that a genetic
predisposition affects risk in combination with certain environmental
triggers. The study was conducted by researchers at the Jerome L. and Dawn
Greene


Infectious Disease Laboratory at the Mailman School of Public Health,
Columbia University. Over the past 20 years, there has been a striking
increase--at least ten-fold since 1985--in the number of children diagnosed
with autism spectrum disorders. Genetic factors alone cannot account for
this rise in prevalence. Researchers at the Mailman School, led by Dr. Mady
Hornig, created an animal model to explore the relationship between
thimerosal (ethylmercury) and autism, hypothesizing that the combination of
genetic susceptibility and environmental exposure to mercury in childhood
vaccines may cause neurotoxicity.


Cumulative mercury burden through other sources, including in utero
exposures to mercury in fish or vaccines, may also lead to damage in
susceptible hosts. Timing and quantity of thimerosal dosing for the mouse
model were developed using the U.S. immunization schedule for children, with
doses calculated for mice based on 10th percentile weight of U.S. boys at
age two, four, six, and twelve months.


The researchers found the subset of autoimmune disease susceptible mice with
thimerosal exposure to express many important aspects of the behavioral and
neuropathologic features of autism spectrum disorders, including:


Abnormal response to novel environments;


Behavioral impoverishment (limited range of behaviors and decreased
exploration of environment); Significant abnormalities in brain
architecture, affecting areas subserving emotion and cognition; Increased
brain size.


These findings have relevance for identification of autism cases relating to
environmental factors; design of treatment strategies; and development of
rational immunization programs. The use of thimerosal in vaccines has been
reduced over the past few years, although it is still present in some
influenza vaccines. Identifying the connection between genetic
susceptibility and an environmental trigger for autism--in this case
thimerosal exposure--is important because it may promote discovery of
effective interventions for and limit exposure in a specific population,
stated the lead author Dr. Mady Hornig. Because the developing brain can be
exposed to toxins that are long gone by the time symptoms appear, clues
gathered in these animal models can then be evaluated through prospective
human birth cohorts--providing a powerful to tool to dissect the interaction
between genes and the environment over time.


Citation source: Molecular Psychiatry 2004 Volume 9, advance on line
publication doi:10.1038/sj.mp.4001529


For further information on this work, please contact Mady Hornig, MD,
Columbia University, Mailman School of Public Health, Greene Infectious
Disease Laboratory, 722 W 168th St, New York, New York 10032, United States
of America, phone: 212-342-9036; FAX: 949-824-1229; e-mail:



ARTICLE: "Neurotoxic effects of postnatal thimerosal are mouse
strain-dependent"


M Hornig, D Chian, W. I. Lipkin


Greene Infectious Disease Laboratory, Mailman School of Public Health,
Columbia University, 722 W 168th St, New York, New York 10032

"LadyLollipop" wrote in message
news:w0dOe.272249$_o.52148@attbi_s71...

"Jeff" wrote in message
nk.net...

"LadyLollipop" wrote in message
news:5maOe.269691$x96.156297@attbi_s72...

snip Jeff showing his butt?

If mercury is the culprit, and you do NOT try
a cure, you have hurt your child's future.

Considering all of the evidence that autism is NOT caused by mercury,
this is a huge "if."


It is peoples' children!!!!!!!!!!

Consider ALL.

I am considering this. I am also considering that you are exposing children
to an unproven treatment that will waste time, money and effort, with
absolutely no evidence that it will do any good. And there is no evidence
that the treatment is even safe.

Rather than waste efforts on this stupid treatment, it makes much more sense
to concentrate on things that have been shown to work.


Let us find out the risk.

It was found in Japan that cilantro can
chelate mercury. Reports also say that
chlorella can help in the chelation process.

Peer-reviewed references that they actually help when given as
directed.

Too bad *organized medicine* is so far outdated, they don't know the
simple things.

http://www.drlaurathompson.com/scicn...tal%20Toxicity

The reason they don't know these simple things is that these simple
things are false. Heavy metal poisoning does not cause ADHD or autism.

You are in denial, Jeff.

http://www.healingwithnutrition.com/...cexposure.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller14.html

http://www.testfoundation.org/thimerosal.htm

http://www.testfoundation.org/aluminumvaccines.htm

The first site, whether you realize it or not, is a commercial site trying
to sell a product.

The testing foundation sites don't work, at least on my computer.

Look at the low quality of references on the second site. Many of which were
discredited and few, if any, are from the peer-reviewed research.

I am not in denial. I am able to discern accurate information from
inaccurate information. The information you provide is inaccurate, IMHO.


However, selling a variety of products does help the sponsor of web pages
make money.

Health Articles by Dr. Laura Thompson

Dr. Thompson has her Ph.D. in plant physiology. The web site she writes for
(http://www.drlaurathompson.com/) is trying to make money. Enough said.

(...)

Unlikely. Even kids with autism sometimes go to college. And most kids
are capable of going to college.

Oh? Cite evidence, please.

In some communities, more than half the kids go to college. Considering that
there is very little evidence that people in other communities are less
intelligent (they just happen to have the wrong color skin or the wrong
ethnic background or not enough money), people in other communities can
achieve just as much as people in the better off communities. Therefore, I
beleive that most people have the intelligence to go to college.



Cliantro and chlorella are basically food,
not medicines. An honest pediatrician cannot
stop you from trying this, anymore than
they can stop you from feeding your
child spinach and apples.

But an honest pediatician would tell you you are wasting your time.

Wrong, that would be lying.

Provide me with the peer-reviewed evidence that cliantro and chlorella
really does anything to help kids with autism.

I have provided you with truth about peer-reviewed. You have a closed
mind.

You have provided me with opinion about peer-review. And a losy one at that.



Let us say you did this for a month, and
nothing happened. You are no worse.

And if you did this for a month, and if you see
a "shock to the system" recovery, what have
you gained?

Except that mercury is NOT the cause of autism.

ZZzz.

BTW, Jeff, NEWFLASH, mice are used for research.

I am quite well aware of that.

Uh huh. Sure you are.

I have seen mice used for immunological research.

*Should I ever get a pet female rat, I will be sure to take this into
account*
.
*If I ever get mice, I will be sure to not vaccinate them*.

Correct. I won't vaccination my mice.


Copyrighted material deleted.

Jeff

Study restored:

Copyright material deleted again. People who wish to see it can easily find
it.

Jeff

David Wright wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:
CWatters wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
It was found in Japan that cilantro can
chelate mercury.

What else does it chelate?

Other heavy metals, I believe. (But according
to various sources, the US thimerosal removal
wasn't actually performed in 1999 as advertised, so
there is no need yet to look for other agents.)

Ooh, "various sources." Well, there's a nice, definitive statement,
isn't it? God forbid you should tell us what these "various sources,"
are, lest we find out you're just blowing smoke.

When, when I find I am dealing with intellectually
dishonest opponents, I find myself free to provide
information or not -- for anything I do provide
will simply become fodder for further dishonest responses.

Majusmaximum wrote:
Just an added bit of info: whether you use basic, simple methods like the
cilantro & chlorella you mentioned, or something a bit harsher (DMPS), or
something more unusual (the detox foot patches, which on analysis have
shown mercury deposits), in any event you have to give the child something
to "suck up" and carry out, as soon as possible, the mercury, before it
resettles into the tissues (again) - causing a horrible new set of
symptoms. Alginate, concentrated from seaweed, is normally used. It
comes in various forms.

This is not the last word in heavy metal detox. Hope you will do more
research and good luck.

The chlorella is supposed to bind to ("suck up") and carry
out the mercury, though this is a relatively un-researched field,
and I am sure better remedies must exist.

wrote:
I have to clarify that the reason I jumped
into this debate was to attract some attention,
because I do have a message for parents
whose children are affected. Even though
thimerosal has been 'removed' from the
vaccinations, I do believe there are a lot
of affected parents.

So I wish people who read this will spread
the message.

Basically the message is this:

Why do you have to care about the politics of this?
All you need to know is that there is a slight
chance mercury is the culprit.

If mercury is the culprit, and you do NOT try
a cure, you have hurt your child's future.
If mercury is not the culprit, and you still
try a cure, what have you hurt?

Let us find out the risk.

It was found in Japan that cilantro can
chelate mercury. Reports also say that
chlorella can help in the chelation process.

Cilantro is a mild herb used for thousands
of years, like thyme/oregano/parsley etc. It
is not going to hurt your child. Chlorella is
some sort of algae, and no study says it is
harmful. Chemical analysis shows it has a lot
of good nutrients. Several millions of Japanese
have been eating it every day. So even if it
did nothing else, it ought to improve your
child's health a little.

So you feed your child cilantro and chlorella
for a month, and you are wrong about mercury,
and nothing happens. Big deal. So you paid a
little bit of money for a bunch of cilantro from
your grocery store, and some money for chlorella
from your local natural food store. You also
had to work a bit on your kid to feed the
cilantro and chlorella. What have you
really lost?

Cliantro and chlorella are basically food,
not medicines. An honest pediatrician cannot
stop you from trying this, anymore than
they can stop you from feeding your
child spinach and apples.

Let us say you did this for a month, and
nothing happened. You are no worse.

And if you did this for a month, and if you see
a "shock to the system" recovery, what have
you gained?

If you do see a recovery (but don't do wishy
washy stuff, go really heavy on the cilantro
and chlorella), then you can continue the chelation
process for as long as it continues helping. Maybe
throw in some gingko every once in a while for a
week or so. Even if the child doesn't recover
the intelligence he/she was born with, won't most
parents be extremely glad simply for the
child becoming an average citizen?

If you see no change, well, just don't
do anything further.

I personally do not understand how any
parent would refuse to do such a simple
experiment, just because there is politics
surrounding the issue.

When there is no risk to the experimentation,
and possibly big gains, why not experiment a bit?

Who cares if it's called "alternative", "naturopathic",
"double-blind tested", or "the green eggs and ham method"?
Who cares if it was debated in a hundred studies
until the debaters were blue in the face?

Ultimately, all that matters are the actual
potential risks, and the actual potential gains.



Do you have a treatment for peopple whose hopes you falsely raise?

You see, I have two special needs kids, and, for several years, we went
through lots of bull**** to find something to 'cure' them. We eventually
found that there ain't no such thing, and that the commercial and
noncommercial scumbags who promote these are truly just that, scumbags.

And, please, do not tell me, as others have previously done, that a
parent is wrong for getting their hopes up. IMNSHO, that line only makes
the purveyors of bull**** an even bigger scumbag.

wrote:
David Wright wrote:

In article . com,
wrote:

CWatters wrote:

wrote in message
egroups.com...
It was found in Japan that cilantro can

chelate mercury.

What else does it chelate?

Other heavy metals, I believe. (But according
to various sources, the US thimerosal removal
wasn't actually performed in 1999 as advertised, so
there is no need yet to look for other agents.)

Ooh, "various sources." Well, there's a nice, definitive statement,
isn't it? God forbid you should tell us what these "various sources,"
are, lest we find out you're just blowing smoke.


When, when I find I am dealing with intellectually
dishonest opponents, I find myself free to provide
information or not -- for anything I do provide
will simply become fodder for further dishonest responses.



Thank you for admitting that you do not have proof of your claims.

wrote in message
ups.com...
CWatters wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
It was found in Japan that cilantro can
chelate mercury.

What else does it chelate?

Other heavy metals, I believe.

If it's so powerful that it can chelate mercury might it also make you
deficient in minerals like zinc?

"LadyLollipop" wrote in message
news:w0dOe.272249$_o.52148@attbi_s71...
Considering all of the evidence that autism is NOT caused by mercury,
this
is a huge "if."

It is peoples' children!!!!!!!!!!

Consider ALL.


If Cilantro soaksup mercury so well isn't there a risk that the plant might
itself contain high levels of mercury if it's grown in the wrong place?