FWD bad judgement or abuse Trunk kids begged to ride

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 07:20:35 -0700, "bobb" wrote:

Well, Kane, I can't think of any good that might come out of riding
in a
trunk except the kids my find is rather smelly from exhaust and
scream to
get out.

The CO that comes from unburned fuel components is odorless and
tasteless. Exhaust fumes by themselves are not offense to all children
or adults. In fact there's a number of them that love the smell. I
kind of was hooked on deisal fumes myself when I was a teen. Now they
make me neusious.

A clue to get the exhaust system fixed. Nah.. that's too much of
a stretch.

Yeah, I'd say you are offering too much of a stretch. Kids tend to get
quiet in small spaces and most likely would kick up an fuss at all,
just considering the odor part of the excitement.

I recall a family searching for a missing three or four year old for a
couple of days, only to find him dead, in the station wagon that had
already been checked in the first few minutes of the hunt with people
loudly calling his name.

He was in the rear side tool compartment. Crawled in, pulled it closed
behind him playing hide and go seek, and it latched. I guess he just
waited for someone to find him, but didn't get it that he had to call
out.

I think that was over 15 years ago so I'm unable to find a referrance
but I remember it vividly. When I read it I imagined being that small
boy.

Of course, there is a chance those kids will learn that small
spaces are fun... and not to be afraid of the dark.

I can think of about 20 other safe alternatives that kids use. Hiding
in closets, hide and go seek games, hiding under the covers reading
comics by flashlight, building forts in brushpiles, to name just a
few.

Do you also advocate children learn about holding their breath by
putting plastic bags over their heads? I know kids do practice holding
their breaths.

Gosh, our astronauts and
deep sea divers are contained in spaces far smaller than a car
trunk...

Not these days they aren't. Not as small as a car trunk.

and
I've heard some guys to there best work in the dark. :-)

And I do my best work by afternoon sunlight, thank you very much. {:-]

I would suppose doing something new, and perhaps scary at first, has
nothing
to do with engaging in other new experiences, either.

Scary in concept does not have to equate with dangerous in fact. Lots
of perfectly harmless activities can be organized to LOOK and feel
scary. The Fun house at the county fair comes to mind, or renting and
viewing a copy of Psycho.

A small, but
certain, a confidence builder. Kids, and for that matter, adults
learn
from play time experiences

Yes, they do that alright.

and we never know how those experiences and
opportunities affect later lives.

We don't? I guess my psych 101 college class was a waste of time, at
least the early childhood development and learning theory parts then.
We seemed to cover them in depth so well I was motivated to go on and
study learning theory in far greater detail.

I'm a little miffed the researchers wasted my time fooling me into
believing they had decades, actually centuries, of study of the
subject. I should have just come and asked you how to learn.

Got a question for yah though. Now that you know how to drive a car
what do you think about the predictability of your drivers ed, or cut
and paste experimentation, takes your choice, had to do with your
current ability?

There, see how easy it is to figure out how those experiences and
opportunities affected your later life?

Geez, bobb, could you dream up some more utterly inane statements to
make on this subject. I'm writing a book and you could be a big help.

"Ten Thousand Ways to Make a Complete Fool of Yourself" subtitled,
"bobb Explains Life"

Yeh... there are a lotta guys sitting in jail... innocents.

Uhhhh. Sure. If you say so, pal. "Lotta" is a powerful piece of data
that only a fool like me would discount.

Those who put
them there will claim they were following the laws, too.

Yeah. There's hardly a guilty party in jail these days. And those damn
prosecutors are mostly lying.

Those dead and injured victims, those child ****er's victims, and
other crybabies are all making a mountain out of a molehill.

There are a lotta
guys sitting in jail serving time that far exceed the nature of the
crime,
too.

No doubt. Gimme another "lotta" will yah huh?

One may argue the other side too.

That there are a lot of guilty sitting in jail? That Mayflies in
August portend a blustery winter? That Earnie Pyle was in fact a
Martian?

Help us out here, bobb.

I'm still waiting to see those from ERON
to go to jail.

Me too. The penalties might not be enough to satisfy my blood lust
revenge driven solutions to white collar crime. Hang`em all, is my
motto.

In perspective, they did a lot more to harm society as a
whole than some guy possessing a small amount of marijuana, or even
the
likes of Kobe.

I know. But then I wonder how they stack up against Pol Pot and
Richard Speck? Oh well, speculation is my game.

Ask and yee shall receive, I aims tah please:

(a partial quote from the web site that is monitoring the Enron case)
(and you won't get any argument from me about the seriousness)

http://tinyurl.com/iz5g

What is the current status of the Enron case?
Because of the complexity of the Enron case and because of the number
of people and partnerships being investigated, probes by the SEC and
Department of Justice are ongoing. In addition, a class action lawsuit
on behalf on Enron shareholders is in its early stages.

Convictions
As mentioned, the first to be convicted was former Enron executive
Michael Kopper. Kopper worked closely with Andrew Fastow, the former
chief financial officer, who has been indicted on 78 counts of
conspiracy. In August 2002, Kopper was convicted to charges of money
laundering and wire fraud. He had pled guilty to the charges.

In addition, Enron's accounting firm, Arthur Anderson, LLP, has been
convicted of obstruction of justice. Employees were involved in a
massive destruction of files pertaining to Enron, preventing the court
from seeing past financial records, transactions, emails, memos, and
other potentially relevant documents. Anderson was responsible for
auditing Enron and for ensuring that its accounting practices adhered
to regulations. Arthur Anderson was also fined $500,000 and was placed
on five years probation.

Indictments, Defendants, and Investigations
There are more than 29 defendants listed in a case filed by the
federal government against Enron and its executives. Some of those
suspected of wrongdoing a
· Jeffrey Skilling, former Enron president who served as CEO from
February to August 2001
· Andrew Fastow, former chief financial officer who was in charge of
LJM and has been indicted on 78 counts of conspiracy (he has pleaded
not guilty on all counts)
· Richard Causey, former chief accounting officer
· Jeffrey McMahon, former treasurer
· Ben Glisan Jr., former treasurer
· Kenneth L. Lay, founder, former chairman, and former CEO of Enron
· J. Clifford Baxter, former vice chairman, died of apparent suicide
in January 2002
· Wendy L. Gramm, member of Enron's Board of Directors and its audit
committee
· Gary Mulgrew, Greenwich Nat West bank employee, accused of
defrauding his company through the LJM investment
· Giles Robert Hugh Darby, Greenwich Nat West bank employee, accused
of defrauding his company through the LJM investment
· David John Bermingham, Greenwich Nat West bank employee, accused of
defrauding his company through the LJM investment

J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. officials have been interrogated regarding
their role in dealings with former Enron executives, but no criminal
charges have been filed.

In addition, a lawsuit has been filed against Enron's law firm, Vinson
& Elkins LLP.

Timothy Belden, a former Enron energy trader pleaded guilty to charges
of conspiracy regarding illegal dealings that took advantage of the
California energy crisis. In essence, he explained, Enron took energy
out of California to avoid price caps, sent it elsewhere to make a
profit, and then sold it back to California at higher prices."

Apparently there's more to come.

It seems Sen. Patrick Leahy agrees with us though.

http://tinyurl.com/iz85

The following quote is from his web site suggestion some changes in
the fraud laws:

(it's worth the read to understand the changes coming on fraud-go
look)

"In addition, the current statutes and penalties for actually
committing securities fraud are inadequate. S. 2010 would remedy these
shortcomings. Current laws are filled with overly technical
requirements and do not always take into account the extent of the
securities fraud in fashioning punishment. The law should penalize
those is corporate management who actually defrauded thousands of
investors, not just those at accounting firms who destroyed documents
to cover it up."

I want you to notice that while the actual prosecutions are going
rather slowly, that is a good thing, while laws are changed to reflect
the seriousness of these crimes and, will be in place in time for the
coming trials, or so we can hope.

bobb

Kane

Kane, all these incidents you mentioned were unsupervised. Big difference.

Don't beg the issue by saying today's astronauts now have larger living
quarters. I'm not that easily distracted from the original thought.





We don't? I guess my psych 101 college class was a waste of time, at
least the early childhood development and learning theory parts then.
We seemed to cover them in depth so well I was motivated to go on and
study learning theory in far greater detail.

I'm a little miffed the researchers wasted my time fooling me into
believing they had decades, actually centuries, of study of the
subject. I should have just come and asked you how to learn.


Fortunately, I was never subjected to the brain-washing of drivers ed. I
say that because I was surprised to learned some very basics of safe driving
are not taught. That's another subject but suffice it to say I have driven
cars and trucks and buses, I have driven in more that 30 countries under
varying laws and conditions.. all without an accident.


Good luck on your book, and feel free to give me credit. It'll be a best
seller for sure.


Those who put
them there will claim they were following the laws, too.


It's not to say there aren't any guilty people in jail.. but it does seem
there are far too many innocents. Remember, the only one exposed to date
have been those on death row. This say nothing about those who are in jail
for lesser crimes. This is to say nothing about those who plead guitly to
crime they didn't committ in order to avoid a longer sentence. It's called
plea bargining... or legal black mail... take your choice.

I wasn't talking about the likes of a Richard Speck. The majority of people
in jail are there for much less serious crimes. But, as I've often said,
there are those who need to the move the extreme to justify a point when all
else fails.


As for ENRON and other white collar criminals... they have stolen millions
of dollars. Yet now matter how long their jail sentences are they will
have gained more money each year than we will in a lifetime. In very few
instances will they ever be called upon to repay what they have stolen.
Therein lies a huge injustice. And do they really do 'hard time'?
Hahaha.... I think not. The familes of convicted while collar criminals
will go on with little effect. Dad may as well be on vacation yet he
defrauded and stole from thousands, if not thousands of people... and who
knows how many were driven to suicide and bankruptcy.

Still... there are those who advocate jailing a mother who engaged in
'negligent' behavior or did in fact use poor judgement and suffered the loss
of a child. A lifetime sentence of guilt.

Think as you will...but justice and fairness is sorely lacking in our legal
system.


bobb