Parenting a wooden spoon

I'm quite frustrated with my 8 yo DS's behaviour and need some ideas.

He and his older sister are only 19 months apart and for the first 5 years of
his life, he relied on her for a lot. They played together and were best
friends, but for the past 3 years, they've drifted apart. I have no doubt this
is normal, since they're in different grades and have different friends and
interests.

My biggest issue is that he seems to enjoy teasing her just to get her wound up.
He does this with the 3 yo too. I'm sure this is normal, too, and I've been
trying to work with the 10 yo on her reactions to his teasing, because I'm sure
that's why he continues!

An example of this would be:

Today I started my day with DD waking me from a sound sleep with "Mommmm!" DS
had taken DD's backpack and put it somewhere. DD continued to whine about it and
DS thought this was hilarious. I told him to give her the backpack and I asked
her to go upstairs and finish getting ready for school while she calmed down.

I'm not sure how else to handle this! I know that this sort of behaviour is
pretty typical for siblings, but it goes on for so many hours of the day that I
worry about the long-term effects on their relationship (and my sanity!).

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Right now, the punishment is that
they'll lose a day of playing with their friends, but this doesn't seem
particularly effective.



Tracy

PS -- If you don't know what a wooden spoon is -- it's basically a ****-stirrer.
=)
======================================
We child proofed our home 3 years ago
and they're still getting in!
======================================

In article ,
Tracy Cramer wrote:

I'm quite frustrated with my 8 yo DS's behaviour and need some ideas.

He and his older sister are only 19 months apart and for the first 5 years of
his life, he relied on her for a lot. They played together and were best
friends, but for the past 3 years, they've drifted apart. I have no doubt
this
is normal, since they're in different grades and have different friends and
interests.

My biggest issue is that he seems to enjoy teasing her just to get her wound
up.
He does this with the 3 yo too. I'm sure this is normal, too, and I've been
trying to work with the 10 yo on her reactions to his teasing, because I'm
sure
that's why he continues!

An example of this would be:

Today I started my day with DD waking me from a sound sleep with "Mommmm!" DS
had taken DD's backpack and put it somewhere. DD continued to whine about it
and
DS thought this was hilarious. I told him to give her the backpack and I
asked
her to go upstairs and finish getting ready for school while she calmed down.

I'm not sure how else to handle this! I know that this sort of behaviour is
pretty typical for siblings, but it goes on for so many hours of the day that
I
worry about the long-term effects on their relationship (and my sanity!).

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Right now, the punishment is
that
they'll lose a day of playing with their friends, but this doesn't seem
particularly effective.


we once took our squabbling pair to the back porch -- had them sit toe
to toe and told them they needed to work something out before they could
come back in --

it worked -- maybe because it was a dramatic departure

the key I think is to make it their problem and to recognize that they
all contribute to the process in which getting your goat is the real
prize

if it continues -- simply require them to be in separate rooms -- no
discussion, no blame assignment, don't referee --- they bug each other,
they must be in separate space -- with as little attention as you can
muster

but make it their problem not yours

In article ,
"Sue" wrote:

Sounds like my house Tracy. I'm looking forward to your responses. My
children are 11, 8 and 6. Except in our house, it's the 6-year-old that
torments her sisters. Takes something away and runs with it. She bothers
them endlessly until there are tears or they get so upset they hit, which is
unacceptable.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...


Have you read "Siblings Without Rivalry"? (I can't remember the
author's names right now) Although I can't say we were 100% successful,
it's got good advice in it, and reduced *my* stress level!

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

x-no-archive:yes
"Sue" wrote:

Sounds like my house Tracy. I'm looking forward to your responses. My
children are 11, 8 and 6. Except in our house, it's the 6-year-old that
torments her sisters. Takes something away and runs with it. She bothers
them endlessly until there are tears or they get so upset they hit, which is
unacceptable.

It was that way with my sister and me. I was the older one so I
wasn't supposed to hit her. She'd torment me until I'd lose my temper
and then she'd go tattle to my mom.

One day my mom heard the whole thing (we didn't know she was there)
and realized what was happening and from then on, whatever punishment
or behavior modification there was, was applied to both of us
regardless of who 'started it'. If we were arguing, we were both
wrong. That's the way I did with my kids from the beginning and it
worked quite well.

I don't have Tracy's post, but I would say to Sue - don't let your 6
yo get away with this. There's no reason for her to be able to
terrorize your older girls and you aren't doing her any favors by
allowing her to behave this way. Nor is it really fair to the older
children to have their hands tied when dealing with their sister.

grandma Rosalie

This reminds me A LOT of my nephew and his behavior towards his
sisters. When I babysat, it would drive me crazy! The good news: he
eventually grew out of it. I think it's great that you are teaching
your daughter to control her reaction to this teasing. Controlling
one's reaction to outside events is an excellent skill to have. I'm a
mom of a baby so understand that I do not speak from experience but
one idea that jumped to mind was that the person doing the bad deed
has to do the other person's chores. This would punish the wrong
do-er while rewarding the person wronged. At this moment, I can't
think of any downside but it might be out there, others can comment.
Good luck!

Tracy Cramer wrote in message . ..
I'm quite frustrated with my 8 yo DS's behaviour and need some ideas.

In article ,
(Heather) wrote:

This reminds me A LOT of my nephew and his behavior towards his
sisters. When I babysat, it would drive me crazy! The good news: he
eventually grew out of it. I think it's great that you are teaching
your daughter to control her reaction to this teasing. Controlling
one's reaction to outside events is an excellent skill to have. I'm a
mom of a baby so understand that I do not speak from experience but
one idea that jumped to mind was that the person doing the bad deed
has to do the other person's chores. This would punish the wrong
do-er while rewarding the person wronged. At this moment, I can't
think of any downside but it might be out there, others can comment.
Good luck!

the downside is that you are constantly in the middle of their squabbles
judging and assigning blame -- which is half the fun for them

it is a dynamic -- it really works better to separate them, not judge
each event, pay as little attention as possible

it is also of course important to provide lots of positive activities
and attention -- but not as a direct consequence of the misbehavior
which is what judging and assigning chores does --

Tracy Cramer wrote in message . ..
I'm quite frustrated with my 8 yo DS's behaviour and need some ideas.

He and his older sister are only 19 months apart and for the first 5 years of
his life, he relied on her for a lot. They played together and were best
friends, but for the past 3 years, they've drifted apart. I have no doubt this
is normal, since they're in different grades and have different friends and
interests.

My biggest issue is that he seems to enjoy teasing her just to get her wound up.
He does this with the 3 yo too. I'm sure this is normal, too, and I've been
trying to work with the 10 yo on her reactions to his teasing, because I'm sure
that's why he continues!


I would suggest getting to the root of his aggressive behaviour with
his sister. a book that recommend is "Kids, Parents, and Power
Struggles : Winning for a Lifetime"
by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka which teaches empathic communication. It
isn't easy but it really works. It's non-judgemental communication
that makes it easier for people to really say what is on their mind.



Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Right now, the punishment is that
they'll lose a day of playing with their friends, but this doesn't seem
particularly effective.

finding a solution, not a punishment, that relates to the aggression
might be more effective. Barbara Coloroso has a tip that works well
with my girls: if they are fighting, they need to sit down together
and neither can get up until the other says. by the time they do,
forgiveness happens as well. As most adults learned when they were
children, forced apologies don't work since the child feels coerced to
give something they aren't ready to give, and that they don't feel.


Tracy

PS -- If you don't know what a wooden spoon is -- it's basically a ****-stirrer.

I still don't understand. Are you saying your son is a "****
stirrer"?

kate

=====
Kate, http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~kolina/a...f-formula.html
Mom to Ursula (8.5), Sage (6), Benno (2.7) My parents were
wonderful
people, but unfortunately they were unable to give me the private
income I so richly deserved. ~ Poet & Head of the NEA Dana Goiai,
explaining
why he has an MBA

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EvidenceBased/

Sounds like my house Tracy. I'm looking forward to your responses. My
children are 11, 8 and 6. Except in our house, it's the 6-year-old that
torments her sisters. Takes something away and runs with it. She bothers
them endlessly until there are tears or they get so upset they hit, which is
unacceptable.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

Tracy Cramer wrote in message
news
I'm quite frustrated with my 8 yo DS's behaviour and need some ideas.

He and his older sister are only 19 months apart and for the first 5 years
of
his life, he relied on her for a lot. They played together and were best
friends, but for the past 3 years, they've drifted apart. I have no doubt
this
is normal, since they're in different grades and have different friends
and
interests.

My biggest issue is that he seems to enjoy teasing her just to get her
wound up.
He does this with the 3 yo too. I'm sure this is normal, too, and I've
been
trying to work with the 10 yo on her reactions to his teasing, because I'm
sure
that's why he continues!

An example of this would be:

Today I started my day with DD waking me from a sound sleep with "Mommmm!"
DS
had taken DD's backpack and put it somewhere. DD continued to whine about
it and
DS thought this was hilarious. I told him to give her the backpack and I
asked
her to go upstairs and finish getting ready for school while she calmed
down.

I'm not sure how else to handle this! I know that this sort of behaviour
is
pretty typical for siblings, but it goes on for so many hours of the day
that I
worry about the long-term effects on their relationship (and my sanity!).

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Right now, the punishment is
that
they'll lose a day of playing with their friends, but this doesn't seem
particularly effective.



Tracy

PS -- If you don't know what a wooden spoon is -- it's basically a
****-stirrer.
=)
======================================
We child proofed our home 3 years ago
and they're still getting in!
======================================

On 8 Oct 2003 11:53:48 -0700, (Kate) wrote:

I would suggest getting to the root of his aggressive behaviour with
his sister. a book that recommend is "Kids, Parents, and Power
Struggles : Winning for a Lifetime"
by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka which teaches empathic communication. It
isn't easy but it really works. It's non-judgemental communication
that makes it easier for people to really say what is on their mind.

Thanks, Kate! I put the book on my list for the bookstore tomorrow.

My feeling is that DS delights in annoying her because he doesn't like being the
younger sibling. My brother and I were 7 years apart, so our squabbles were
quite different and there really couldn't be any sort of "power struggle"
because of the age difference. This is why I'm so clueless on how to deal with
these two!

finding a solution, not a punishment, that relates to the aggression
might be more effective.

Yes, that's what I'm looking for. It's just a stupid, vicious cycle -- they
fight, they get punished, I get frustrated, etc. I'd rather find a way to end
this behaviour (on both ends) because it seems like it would benefit everyone.

Barbara Coloroso has a tip that works well
with my girls: if they are fighting, they need to sit down together
and neither can get up until the other says. by the time they do,
forgiveness happens as well.

Interesting idea. I have a feeling that my two will decide to let each other up
so they don't have to do Mom's silly suggestion, but I've got to try this.

As most adults learned when they were
children, forced apologies don't work since the child feels coerced to
give something they aren't ready to give, and that they don't feel.

Right -- that's one thing I don't do. I never force them to apologize to each
other because I don't want them in the habit of giving insincere apologies. I
know DS is rarely sorry that he's done something to DD because having his sister
-- or me or Dad -- mad at him for this behaviour just isn't something that seems
to bother him.

I still don't understand. Are you saying your son is a "****
stirrer"?

Oh, absolutely! He's really a cool kid -- very bright and funny -- but his
favorite activity seems to be getting people wound up. He only really got like
this when I was pregnant with the 3 yo, so the change in his personality has
been tough to get a handle on.

When he was seeing his counselor, I told the counselor about this behaviour and
how I had a problem with it. We had a counseling session with DS, me and the
counselor, and DS was pretty frank about liking to get his sisters going. Of
course, he also claimed that he'd stop doing it, but he hasn't. I don't know if
it's habit or just the inability to resist temptation.





Tracy
======================================
We child proofed our home 3 years ago
and they're still getting in!
======================================

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 16:26:49 GMT, dragonlady wrote:

Have you read "Siblings Without Rivalry"? (I can't remember the
author's names right now) Although I can't say we were 100% successful,
it's got good advice in it, and reduced *my* stress level!


Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to pick this up at the bookstore tomorrow
along with the book that Kate recommended.

I certainly don't think I can eliminate the fussing and fighting totally because
I think that's a very natural part of being siblings. But I really have to get
DS to back off a little bit because it seems that teasing the girls is his
favorite activity. There has to be some balance.



Tracy
======================================
We child proofed our home 3 years ago
and they're still getting in!
======================================