If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#161
|
|||
|
|||
Unvaccinated children healthier
On May 8, 5:51 pm, Mark Probert wrote:
Top posting to save scrolling... Biggie, let's put it this way, I was the one who raised the issue of deaths vs. disability. I do this for a very important reason: Anti-vac liars have used deaths ad nauseum, while ignoring one of the main benefits of vaccines, i.e. the prevention of life long disability. You see, I have a old friend who was a practising pediatric neurologist. When his son was young, and before the HiB vaccine was available, he developed meningitis and was severely brain damaged. My friend went into a deep depression, closed his practice and moved away from where we live. It was tragic. A few years ago my friend reopened a practice..general pediatrics..and is now thriving. His son is institutionalized, as he needs 24/7 care that cannot be done at home. Still a tragedy. Oh, and if you are a parent of a patient of his who refuses vaccinations, then he suggests that you seek medical care elsewhere, as he never wants to see what happened to his son happen to another child. I will ALWAYS change the issue to significant sequelae because that is what really matters. BTW, death is included. I am merely broadening the issue. Why do anti-vac liars not like this? Because they cannot win. Their scaremongering does nothing when you see a child drooling from severe brain damage. On May 7, 10:29 am, bigvince wrote: On May 6, 12:22 am, Mark ... read more »- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Jeff writes: Not all jokes are funny. Like unsupported suggestions about life-saving vaccines. ..................But just how many lives do these " life saving" vaccines save thats the assertion Jeff makes Jeff writes: I have looked into vaccines very carefully. Likewise, I look at the evidence for each vaccine. And for each vaccine offered to kids, the evidence that they do more good than harm is very good. Vaccines have cut down on deaths from chicken pox, measles (wiped out deaths in the US), small pox, Hib menigitis, hepatits B and other diseases. There is risk with vaccines, as with any treatment, but the risk is extremely small compared to the benefit. Jeff you did not look closely enough; specifically and you made the statement you have examined this closely. How many death were averted in the hepatitis b vaccine program as opposed to the number of serious reactions to that vaccine.? How many deaths were attributed to chicken pox the last year before vaccines for that condition.AS opposed to this year?. Very typical anti-vac liar trick using deaths instead of severe reactions with significant sequelae. Vaccines also prevent disability. Notice the way this conversation is manipulated to create a false impression.. Jeff states vaccines including chicken pox vaccine reduce deaths. In responce Jeff is asked how many ?. read the passage Not wanting to answer the question about how many deaths. And believe me the answer is not to their liking the smear comes in Read the anti-vac liar trick sentance .Always evaluate credibility check what people wright. Personally I think that type of smear has no place in honest discussion. Name calling is what you are reduced to as a last resort. So lets just present some facts from quick "This is not to say that wild chickenpox is entirely benign. The CDC estimates that the 4 million annual cases result in 11,000 hospitalizations and 100 deaths every year. " ..............So the number of deaths prevented is 100 minus the % were the vaccine did not take 37% according to the CDC perhaps as high as 60% .So perhaps best case 50 lives saved except Adult onset of this disease is much more serious and again from the article............... "Dr. Arthur Lavin, a pediatrician at St. Luke's Medical Center in Cleveland , agrees, writing in The Lancet that routine varicella vaccination in healthy children might pose a "grave danger of advancing the age of onset of chickenpox into adulthood." 17 " Full story at this link http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...ealth/chickenp... Anyone interested should review and evaluate the information there. It is a footnoted well written look at the info. After reviewing it you might understand why the Illinois state health board the "best medical people in the state" advised against mandating this vaccine Thanks Vince- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Mark the fear mongering is being done very well by you If a friend of yours suffered because of hep b thats tragic. Children that suffer from vaccine reactions are also tragic however I don't see much concern for them. You want to not answer the question about deaths and serious reactions to the 2 vaccines in question. Well let me help you Chickenpox Party: Developing Natural Varicella Immunity By Brian Wimer, Jacquelyn L. Emm and Deren Bader Issue 122, January/February 2004. Excerpt s "The leading edge of a new slew of mandatory policies is a recent decision from an Illinois immunization advisory committee that has recommended that chickenpox vaccinations be required for admission to Illinois schools-against the advice of the state health board." why would this vaccine be mandated against the advice of the state health board.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, "Two years after vaccine licensure, in the 14 states that maintained continuous reporting of varicella, the incidence remained completely unchanged, at 107.0 cases per 100,000 population. (The national incidence, however, was reported by the CDC as dropping to 36.9. 4 ) " .................................................. a 2001 CDC study showed that that effectiveness might actually be as low as 40 percent. 5 But authorities at Maryland's Takoma Park Elementary School might quarrel even with that. There, reportedly, 12 of the 16 cases of a recent chickenpox outbreak involved children who had already been vaccinated. 6 " Notice "Two years after vaccine licensure, in the 14 states that maintained continuous reporting of varicella, the incidence remained completely unchanged, at 107.0 cases per 100,000 population. Mark apparently in those 4 states the vaccine had minimal effect. source http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...pox_party.html Marc the tragic case of your friend is heartbreaking in my opinion all health care professionals should be vaccinated for hepatitis b as they are in a high risk group and for them as others with high risk the benefit outweights the risk. To use that as a reason to vaccinate i day infants who unless they have infected mothers are at virtualy no risk for this diseaseare much more likely to be damaged by the vaccine is seriously flawed logic./ Mark how do you respond to this Richie from From {NVIC webcite} excerpts "Richie was a thriving two month old baby boy, the second son born to a family in upstate New York when he got his first DPT shot in the winter of 1983. ..................."By the evening of the day Richie got his first DPT shot, the area around the site of the injection began to swell." .... " Richie's family filed a claim with the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program and in 1989, received official acknowledgment from the U.S. Court of Claims in Washington, D.C. that the DPT vaccine caused Richie's death. " Full link here http://www.909shot.com/Kids/richie.htm . I encourage anyone to look at that link |
#162
|
|||
|
|||
Unvaccinated children healthier
On Apr 9, 1:07 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
"JOHN" wrote in message More lies. Last year, a 13-year old boy died form measles. Most of the decline in deaths was due to better living conditions, but measles still kills about 1 in 2000 victims, even with the best of treatment. Jeff Let's take a lesson from Dr. Seydenham, the MD that successfully was able to differentiate smallpox, from chicken pox, and measles. The good doctor stated that "smallpox is a most mild and non- lifethreatening disease...except for the mischief of the doctor or the nurse." The mischief was the treatment. We can correctly conclude that those who died of smallpox died from the treatment. This is true of nearly every acute disease known to man. It is the doctors and their treatments that kill the patients. Today it is AIDS. The disease is 100% fatal. This means that the doctors are killing 100% of their patients with their treatments. The doctors need not to fear however. It is not manslaughter nor murder to kill your patient with your treatments as long as it is in accord with the medical requirements and all the other doctors kill the same way. DrCee |
#163
|
|||
|
|||
Unvaccinated children healthier
wrote in message ups.com... On Apr 9, 1:07 pm, "Jeff" wrote: "JOHN" wrote in message More lies. Last year, a 13-year old boy died form measles. Most of the decline in deaths was due to better living conditions, but measles still kills about 1 in 2000 victims, even with the best of treatment. Jeff Let's take a lesson from Dr. Seydenham, the MD that successfully was able to differentiate smallpox, from chicken pox, and measles. The good doctor stated that "smallpox is a most mild and non- lifethreatening disease...except for the mischief of the doctor or the nurse." The mischief was the treatment. We can correctly conclude that those who died of smallpox died from the treatment. Yeah, right. Small pox killed millions of native Americans when the Europeans crossed the ocean with it. This is true of nearly every acute disease known to man. It is the doctors and their treatments that kill the patients. Today it is AIDS. The disease is 100% fatal. Why don't try reading about the natural history of AIDS in Africa? Those who are not treated died within a few years of onset of symptoms. This means that the doctors are killing 100% of their patients with their treatments. Actually, doctors are able to prolong the lives of patients for many years with their treatments. The doctors need not to fear however. It is not manslaughter nor murder to kill your patient with your treatments as long as it is in accord with the medical requirements and all the other doctors kill the same way. DrCee You're even more ignorant than John Scudmore. Jeff |
#164
|
|||
|
|||
Unvaccinated children healthier
In article .com,
bigvince wrote: From {NVIC webcite} excerpts "Richie was a thriving two month old baby boy, the second son born to a family in upstate New York when he got his first DPT shot in the winter of 1983. ..................."By the evening of the day Richie got his first DPT shot, the area around the site of the injection began to swell." .... " Richie's family filed a claim with the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program and in 1989, received official acknowledgment from the U.S. Court of Claims in Washington, D.C. that the DPT vaccine caused Richie's death. " Full link here http://www.909shot.com/Kids/richie.htm . I encourage anyone to look at that link And while you're looking at it, Vince, here's an Important Fact for you to keep in mind: the DPT shot is no longer used in the US. So why is it important that we read a 24-year-old case about a vaccine no child today is going to receive? -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "I'll kill anyone that tries to stop me from killing anyone." -- Yellowbeard |
#165
|
|||
|
|||
Unvaccinated children healthier
In article . com,
wrote: On Apr 9, 1:07 pm, "Jeff" wrote: "JOHN" wrote in message More lies. Last year, a 13-year old boy died form measles. Most of the decline in deaths was due to better living conditions, but measles still kills about 1 in 2000 victims, even with the best of treatment. Jeff Let's take a lesson from Dr. Seydenham, the MD that successfully was able to differentiate smallpox, from chicken pox, and measles. The good doctor stated that "smallpox is a most mild and non- lifethreatening disease...except for the mischief of the doctor or the nurse." The mischief was the treatment. We can correctly conclude that those who died of smallpox died from the treatment. Let us not take a lesson from "Dr" (hahaha) Cee, who is trying to make you think that Seydenham is somebody recent. First off, the name is actually Sydenham. He died in 1689. It's probably true that the treatments of the time made things worse, but since we don't use them any more, so what? This is true of nearly every acute disease known to man. It is the doctors and their treatments that kill the patients. Today it is AIDS. The disease is 100% fatal. This means that the doctors are killing 100% of their patients with their treatments. 100% of the untreated patients die. The ones who get treatment often live a lot longer, however. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "I'll kill anyone that tries to stop me from killing anyone." -- Yellowbeard |
#166
|
|||
|
|||
Unvaccinated children healthier
"David Wright" wrote in message t... ... Let's take a lesson from Dr. Seydenham, the MD that successfully was able to differentiate smallpox, from chicken pox, and measles. The good doctor stated that "smallpox is a most mild and non- lifethreatening disease...except for the mischief of the doctor or the nurse." The mischief was the treatment. We can correctly conclude that those who died of smallpox died from the treatment. Let us not take a lesson from "Dr" (hahaha) Cee, who is trying to make you think that Seydenham is somebody recent. First off, the name is actually Sydenham. He died in 1689. It's probably true that the treatments of the time made things worse, but since we don't use them any more, so what? Ironically, the treatments in "alternative medicine" which is really conjecture-based medicine, are much closer to Dr. Sydenham's than those of modern medicine. This is true of nearly every acute disease known to man. It is the doctors and their treatments that kill the patients. Today it is AIDS. The disease is 100% fatal. This means that the doctors are killing 100% of their patients with their treatments. 100% of the untreated patients die. The ones who get treatment often live a lot longer, however. And they are a lot healthier, too, with the ability to get out and live a normal life. Jeff -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "I'll kill anyone that tries to stop me from killing anyone." -- Yellowbeard |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Unvaccinated children healthier | [email protected] | General | 164 | May 12th 07 04:51 AM |
Unvaccinated children healthier | [email protected] | Pregnancy | 164 | May 12th 07 04:51 AM |
Unvaccinated children healthier | john | Kids Health | 11 | January 8th 07 05:44 PM |
Unvaccinated children healthier | john | Pregnancy | 6 | January 8th 07 12:29 PM |
Who is healthier, the vaccinated or the unvaccinated?! | john | Pregnancy | 2 | May 28th 05 09:52 PM |