So what??!!!

"0tterbot" wrote in
:

you've just got a big steaming
issue with public schools just because you do. it's
irrational, frankly.

just because i don't send Boo to public school locally
doesn't mean i don't take an interest in how they spend my tax
dollars
currently, the school board is considering removing recess,
as it's non-academic & wastes time the teachers could use to
prepare the little robots for the NCLB testing ... while at
the same time decrying the poor attention span of the
students...
ok, so my town has the 4th lowest paid teachers in the state
& i'm sure they do the best they can under the circumstances
(and i'll note that pretty much every USAian here that says
they have good schools lives in or very near an urban center),
but you CANNOT properly educate a child by teaching ONLY
literacy & math. you can't just teach to the test and drop
art, music, physical education, science(!), geography, social
studies/history...
so, yes, there may be good school systems in areas where the
parents have enough money to support all those extra programs,
but meanwhile the gap between good schools & poor schools, and
by extention rich children and poor children, gets wider &
wider. *that* is my main objection to the way public schools
are run. it's not just one's own kids one needs to learn. it's
EVERY kid. the feeling i get is that so long as one's own
school district is adequate, it really doesn't matter what
happens elsewhere.

now, perhaps there are good public schools out there...

good heavens!!!!!

Hollis had a good system, but i was only there the last 4
months of my senior year... & i may be biased because they had
to get me a private tutor for German & kludge out something
for me in art because i was in year 4 & they only offered 2
years (i basicly ended up assisting the teacher). they had to
fiddle with the English Lit. i think it was replaced by
Humanities because that was the best they had, & i ended up in
a Trig class, rather than AlegbraII (which was an
improvement). oh, and the entire graduating class was 72,
compared to 745 in my old school... so no biology classes with
75 students in that school (how the hell they think they can
teach biology (a hands-on science) to an auditorium of bored
kids is beyond me. that, unfortunately, was one of the classes
where i knew more than the teacher...)

i
wish them the very best towards surviving Bush's edukashun
plans.

did you know bush has 100% nothing to do with my or my
children's public education, nor anyone else's in this
country?
and regardless of
his efforts in his own country, it's still just brainless
to keep chanting "public school sucks" when clearly
innumerable u.s. kids graduate from public school perfectly
well educated for the most part (it would appear). you
cannot use bush to back your own bias.

i have to live here. of course i'm biased. this country
already imports a lot of top scientists & doctors. wonder why?
i don't.

it's a simple fact that illiterate or near-illiterate
ex-private school kids exist in droves.

yeah, i worked for a college that was mainly foreign students
who couldn't get into any other college on merit, but this one
took anyone that would pay tuition. sad, really.

lee
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if
there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of
blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson

"0tterbot" wrote in
:

"Nickki1414 via FamilyKB.com" u29182@uwe wrote in message
news:696c060bf2120@uwe...

Look i go to a great school. And i am one of the smartest
kids at my school
and `when it comes to history you had better bet that i
can find any country
on a map. I know of countries that most people don't. Like
Wales or Uzbekastan!!!!

wales?
kylie
(for that matter, uzbekistan? but wales? please show me a
person who has never, ever heard of wales.)

have you ever been to the US? i can assure you there are many
people here that have never heard of Wales...
OTOH, how much difference is there between Welsh Gaelic &
Irish or Scottish Gaelic?

lee
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if
there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of
blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson

Nickki1414 via FamilyKB.com wrote:
deja.blues wrote:

Am I the only one who looks at "Nikki's" posts, and thinks -
"Why are you all feeding the troll?"

[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]

not trying to disturb this site. Fine I will learn to act mature on this site.
Happy??

I have some advice for you. Get away from familykb.com, none of the people
you are interacting with on this thread are on that site. Get a newsreader
(Outlook Express is fine) and learn how to subscribe to newsgroups, or go
to www.groups.google.com and look up misc.kids or another group that
interests you , there are a million of them. whether you're interested in
cats, cooking, fashion, or German art cinema.

Look I would do that, but I don't along with anyone around my age. Thanks
though. I was told that I am welcome here as long as I mature. So, that's
what I am doing. By the way the only good reason I can up with is that I
don't have a life.

You would almost certainly get along with *someone* of your age, just
not must of the ones that you know.

For instance, you said you are learning Welsh (or interested in learning
Welsh). Maybe you could find a pen-pal who is in Wales, who can help
you learn. The amazing thing about the internet is that no matter
how obscure your interest is, there is probably a web-site about it:
or if there isn't and you start one, other people will find it.

Did you know that the Lord of the Rings was a development from Tolkein's
interest in language?

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

Chookie wrote in

:

Perhaps I shouldn't tell you this, but they were telling
those stories about American school students back when I
was in high school (well, what you'd probably think of as
middle school) back in the early 1980s -- except then, they
couldn't find Washington DC.

it's unfortunately true though. i was doing hiring in the 80s
& it was quite eye-opening how little many applicants knew.
this was long before i had a kid & i wasn't considering
having any at the time, so was less likely to rant about poor
education

i really wouldn't *be* bashing public education if they
actually put the education back in

I'm surprised, though, that the budget cuts have been able
to go as far as mk discussion indicates. Our public
education is provided by State governments here, but
although we have a Basic Skills Test that is run in Year 3
and Year 5, we haven't had anything like the 'curriculum
crunch' that your schools have had. I suspect it is
because the amount of time spent in each curriculum area
is largely set by state regulation. Also, the state
government regulates private schools, to ensure their
curriculum is to standard, so you lan similar things
wherever you are.

the states set standards here, but a good chunk of the state
education budget comes from the Federal government, which,
unfortunately, means that the states have to go along with
Federal standards. this might be a good thing for those few
states who might have lower standards than the Federal, but
for states that had higher standards & now have to back off on
those to fufill the new Federal maths & literacy standards,
it's doing a huge disservice to the kids.
if i had control of education, i'd put more funding into
additional teachers & smaller class sizes, especially in K
through 6. it's unfair to both teacher *and* student to have
classes larger than 15-18 kids (in my ideal school i'd also
make these multi-grade classes with more than one teacher...).
more teachers/smaller classes would mean that kids with
different learning styles could be grouped with more like
kids, which makes it easier on the teacher too.
i'd make sure teachers were paid well enough that taking
additional continuing education wouldn't be a hardship for
them (NCLB says that teachers need to get Master's degrees,
but doesn't pay for that education. an average teacher in my
state makes slightly less than US $40,000/year. unless one is
willing to go into debt to keep a low-paying job...)

the state does dictate, to some degree, what private schools
must teach here also. Boo's school exceeds the state
standards.
i have to say, i don't understand why people seem to think
that layering even more bureaucracy on public education is
going to improve things. all it does is funnel money off to
administration that would be far better actually spent on
educating. since Boo *is* in a private school, i can see even
more clearly how money is wasted in the public schools here.
of course, it's not just the bureaucracy, it's also the lack
of real public involvement...
i pay taxes to support the town school. i exercise my right
to go annoy the school board at thier meetings

lee
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if
there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of
blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson

0tterbot wrote:
Look i go to a great school. And i am one of the smartest kids at my
school
and `when it comes to history you had better bet that i can find any
country
on a map. I know of countries that most people don't. Like Wales or
Uzbekastan!!!!

wales?
kylie
(for that matter, uzbekistan? but wales? please show me a person who has
never, ever heard of wales.)
Kids at my school

--
Message posted via FamilyKB.com
http://www.familykb.com/Uwe/Forums.a...nting/200611/1

Chookie wrote:
In article ,
enigma wrote:


oh, i would, but public schools have gotten worse here since
i was in school. the whole budget cutting & teaching to the
test, which *only* covers literacy & maths, has left little to
no time for teachers to teach anything *except* reading &
maths. it's shocking that schools have dropped geography,
social studies, sciences, arts, music... it's horrifying that
less than 20% of high school students can find Mexico on a
map!


Perhaps I shouldn't tell you this, but they were telling those stories about
American school students back when I was in high school (well, what you'd
probably think of as middle school) back in the early 1980s -- except then,
they couldn't find Washington DC.


i really wouldn't *be* bashing public education if they
actually put the education back in


I'm surprised, though, that the budget cuts have been able to go as far as mk
discussion indicates. Our public education is provided by State governments
here, but although we have a Basic Skills Test that is run in Year 3 and Year
5, we haven't had anything like the 'curriculum crunch' that your schools have
had. I suspect it is because the amount of time spent in each curriculum area
is largely set by state regulation. Also, the state government regulates
private schools, to ensure their curriculum is to standard, so you lan similar
things wherever you are.


I know nothing about education in Lee's state, so I can't comment; but
it's definitely not true that *all* public schools have dropped social
studies, history, the sciences, art, and music. In my state, the
required annual curriculum testing includes social
studies/geography/history and science - of course the schools haven't
dropped them. I don't really know whether arts and music instruction
have suffered in recent years. When I was in school, art was
nonexistent and music was minimal - it's certainly no worse than that.
The 2 public schools my daughter has attended offered both. (This is
one of the poorest states in the U.S., by the way).

I don't have any particular devotion to public schools or private
schools - my daughter has attended both and is now in a public school,
and my almost-5-year-old will be in private school at least through
kindergarten. Which is better depends on local circumstances, what the
parents want, and what suits the child best.

Clisby

enigma wrote:
Look i go to a great school. And i am one of the smartest
kids at my school
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
(for that matter, uzbekistan? but wales? please show me a
person who has never, ever heard of wales.)

have you ever been to the US? i can assure you there are many
people here that have never heard of Wales...
OTOH, how much difference is there between Welsh Gaelic &
Irish or Scottish Gaelic?

lee
no clue thought that they were different lang.

--
Message posted via http://www.familykb.com

Tori M wrote:

We did long division in fith grade.. isnt that normal? A little bit in
fourth but the main stuff I remember was in fith.

My (public schooled) kids were doing long division
by third grade because (gasp!) our schools meet the kids
at their level and challenge them with material appropriate
to their needs.

Best wishes,
Ericka

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 10:05:38 -0500, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Tori M wrote:

We did long division in fith grade.. isnt that normal? A little bit in
fourth but the main stuff I remember was in fith.

My (public schooled) kids were doing long division
by third grade because (gasp!) our schools meet the kids
at their level and challenge them with material appropriate
to their needs.

Precisely as the should be doing, IMNSHO.

Our district, on the other hand, bought whole-heartedly into
"constructivist math." The proponents usually state that
it allows children to explore math concepts and come up with their
own, intuitive understanding of how math works. My interpretation
is that they expect children to independently derive math concepts from
first principals, in eight years - concepts that took everyone
else 2000+ years of rigorous study to derive. And all this without
being taught the most basic math facts and functions.

A local parents group has a website, http://www.teachusmath.com , that
goes into more detail about the issues with the program. It's not as
up-to-date as it could be, but you'll get the general idea of the
issues.

- Rich

--
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

Clisby wrote:

I know nothing about education in Lee's state, so I can't comment; but
it's definitely not true that *all* public schools have dropped social
studies, history, the sciences, art, and music. In my state, the
required annual curriculum testing includes social
studies/geography/history and science - of course the schools haven't
dropped them. I don't really know whether arts and music instruction
have suffered in recent years. When I was in school, art was
nonexistent and music was minimal - it's certainly no worse than that.
The 2 public schools my daughter has attended offered both. (This is
one of the poorest states in the U.S., by the way).

Obviously, there is tremendous variation from state
to state and district to district because of the way we run
and fund public schools. It is true that overall, there are
issues with de-emphasizing whatever courses aren't being
tested and dropping non-core academics like art, music, and
recess.
The proportion of public elementary schools with
no scheduled recess runs from 7 percent (for first grade)
to 13 percent (for sixth grade).

Ninety-nine percent of public schools have P.E.

The average number of minutes of combined recess
and P.E. time per week in public schools runs from
208 minutes (sixth grade) to 222 minutes (first grade).

As of 2000, music instruction was available in
94 percent of public elementary schools (72 percent of
elementary schools had full time music teachers on staff).

As of 2000, visual arts instruction was available
at 87 percent of public elementary schools (55 percent
of elementary schools had full time art teachers on staff
at that school).

During the '98-'99 school year, 77 percent of
regular public elementary schools sponsored field trips to
arts performances, 65 percent to museums or art galleries,
38 percent sponsored visiting artists, 22 percent sponsored
artists-in-residence, and 51 percent sponsored after school
arts activities.

Now, this isn't nearly as good as I'd like to
see, and these programs are definitely threatened (so
I wouldn't want to encourage complacency), but clearly
Lee's public schools are down near the bottom of the pack
for US public schools. We should all be concerned that
such problems exist (and that the means of funding public
education encourages this sort of disparity), but it
doesn't mean that all public schools are in the same
boat, and it *certainly* doesn't mean that all students
with a public education are illiterate and innumerate.

Best wishes,
Ericka