5yo cuffed ;Principal suspended.DHS MO silent

Or DFS? Or Child Protective?

Why is it that poor families are predated upon by CPS?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/12....ap/index.html

East Saint Louis or St. Louis, Charter school. Principal a former corrections
officer

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/12....ap/index.html

Join with parents at: http://www.vocalofmo.org

V.O.C.A.L = victims of child abuse laws

Fern,

How are "poor families predated upon by CPS?"

I went to your website and learned that placing a 5 year old child in
handhuffs was determined unacceptable.

What does this have to do with CPS "predating" poor families?

LaVonne

Fern5827 wrote:

Or DFS? Or Child Protective?

Why is it that poor families are predated upon by CPS?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/12....ap/index.html

East Saint Louis or St. Louis, Charter school. Principal a former corrections
officer

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/12....ap/index.html

Join with parents at: http://www.vocalofmo.org

V.O.C.A.L = victims of child abuse laws

I really hope that administrator doesn't loose his job over this child's
lack of discipline. It's funny how parents are always right there to
criticize the school when they try and discipline their child.

All the principle was trying to do is show this child what can happen if he
doesn't change his behavior. A parent even use it on her son of the TV show
COPS a few years back. The truth is he can be arrested in school now a days
for something as simple as having a pair of scissors in his locker.
Unfortunately the parent just made him feel like a victim. "my poor little
boy". Instead she should be thanking the school to take the time to correct
his behavior instead of suspending him.

He wasn't sent to jail like the 10 year old was in the story I posted the
other day. A teacher was fired here in Houston a few weeks a go for sending
two students to the bathroom for time out. (At least they could go to the
bathroom if they need to). The kids claimed they had to say in their with
the light out, the teacher said they were on. I don't know how long they
were in their, but if it was really that long the media would have said. The
parents of course were outraged. Even after the school fired the teacher the
parents were still not happy. They said they were going to send their
children to another school.

I thought timeout was the preferred method of discipline for children. I
guess for some parents no punishment is allowed. If these parents would just
stand by the school the children would learn for something from it. Instead
as I just stated they make them out to be the victim. They teach them that
all they have to do cry to the parents when they are corrected.

I wanted to be a teacher a one point I sure am glade I never did. After
having two children of my own I'm convinced that many of these behavior
problems child have is the parents fault.


"Fern5827" wrote in message
...
Or DFS? Or Child Protective?

Why is it that poor families are predated upon by CPS?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/12....ap/index.html

East Saint Louis or St. Louis, Charter school. Principal a former
corrections
officer

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/12....ap/index.html

Join with parents at: http://www.vocalofmo.org

V.O.C.A.L = victims of child abuse laws

Billy F:
Are you in favor of Police going to schools
and using Tasers on 9 year olds who won't
hand over the handheld computer game?
How would this misbehavior be the
result of parenting choices?

I see you blame everything on parents.
Would you also therefore MAINTAIN
parents legal right to spank?

If you're going to BLAME the parents,
then I hope you'd give them the latitude
to discipline the child.

Greegor wrote:
Billy F:
Are you in favor of Police going to schools
and using Tasers on 9 year olds who won't
hand over the handheld computer game?

No one went to school and tasered a 9 year old for not handing over a
computer game. It was a teenager, and he had many chances, from the
time he was first asked by the teacher to simply put it away, the being
asked to give it to the AP until the end of the day when it would be
returned. The tasing would not have happened had he not struggled with,
and apparently assualted an LE.

How would this misbehavior be the
result of parenting choices?

It wasn't. This was a child who had had behavioral problems from 4th
grade on. Or so the mother reported.

The 9 year old was a boy in Florida, that had broken the glass out of a
picture frame in the principal's office, and had cut himself twice
already with the glass, and threatened anyone that approached him. The
police did NOT fire a taser until he began slicing on his own leg. Even
then a police officer moved closely enough (putting him or herself at
risk) to catch the child when he fell.

I see you blame everything on parents.

I see you blame everything on authority.

Would you also therefore MAINTAIN
parents legal right to spank?

No doubt he will. Would spanking the children in question YOU mis cited
above have lowered the chances of them doing what they did to lead up
to the use of taser to protect others and themselves?

I suspect, given that there is a 9 out 10 chance, according to spanking
compulstive posters in the ng, that they were spanked.

If you're going to BLAME the parents,
then I hope you'd give them the latitude
to discipline the child.

Are you soliciting again? Missing having kids to give cold showers to?
Have you a gender preference, or doesn't it matter who you shame,
embarass, terrorize, and exercise YOUR pitiful cowardly authority over?
Kane

Hi Greegor,
Of course I do not believe that a school or a police officer should use a
Taser on a child. There is a movement by police forces across the country to
have all officers carry them. The reason for this is to cut down on officers
having to pull their guns, use mace or night sticks. The problem is some
officers are waiting to try out their new toy and using it them when it not
needed. I think their is a major problem is a school or police officer can't
get control of nine year old without shocking them.

If you have seen any of my post on this group you will see that I'm very
much if favor of parents using spanking as a form of discipline. Of course
spanking is only a small part of parenting and some children never need it.

I do not believe that parents are always at fault for a child misbehaving. I
do have a problem with parents making their children out to be a victim
every time the school tries to discipline them. Im sure you know that while
a child might be a little angel at home they can be a monster at school.
School have to be able to discipline and parents need to back them up. If
parents would do this rather than always defending their childs action the
child would in most cases get in trouble less. Of couse their are times when
a parent does need to defend their child and should.

School are running out of option and suspension both in and out of school
are becoming the only options. When I was in elementary school not a single
child was suspended. Suspension didn't start happening until middle school
and it was usually for fighting. I'm sure Greegor that this principle was at
his wits end and did this with the child's interest at heart. If I found out
my child misbehaved so bad that a principle had to take those measures he
would likely be punished when he got home. This is not a issue of Zero
Tolerance, this child had been a problem for awhile.




or" wrote in message
oups.com...
Billy F:
Are you in favor of Police going to schools
and using Tasers on 9 year olds who won't
hand over the handheld computer game?
How would this misbehavior be the
result of parenting choices?

I see you blame everything on parents.
Would you also therefore MAINTAIN
parents legal right to spank?

If you're going to BLAME the parents,
then I hope you'd give them the latitude
to discipline the child.

billy f wrote:
Hi Greegor,
Of course I do not believe that a school or a police officer should
use a
Taser on a child. There is a movement by police forces across the
country to
have all officers carry them. The reason for this is to cut down on
officers
having to pull their guns, use mace or night sticks.

Data shows that the number of shootings, that is with a firearm, and
fatalities decrease considerably with switching to tasers.

The problem is some
officers are waiting to try out their new toy and using it them when
it not
needed.

The problem is you have a problem with authority and expect those with
it to all be corrupt. They are no more corrupt than any other large
body of people. In fact I'd lay odds they are less so but get caught
more because of their higher profile in the public eye.

I think their is a major problem is a school or police officer can't
get control of nine year old without shocking them.

I think there is a major problem that you failed to read, or if read,
failed to comprehend. This nine year old boy had pieces of broken
glass. He had cut his face near the eye with it already, had threatened
other adults with trying to cut them if they came near, and he had also
cut his arm...each move a deliberate purposeful act on his part.

When the officers tried to approach, before they could reach him, or
talk him down he started sawing on his leg with the class. The edge of
a piece of freshly broken glass is equivalent to a straight razor
freshly stropped. He could have gone to the femoral artery in a blink.
Kids that age usually don't don't have a lot of muscle tissue, or even
fat, built up to pad things.

They saved that boy's life. I wrote and thanked the officers, and urged
their bosses to commend rather than condemn them. The parent of that
child owe those LEOs a great dept for doing what they did as fast as
they did it.

I recall a scene about 6 or 7 years ago, were a boy was being held by a
madman with a knife to his throat in his own bedroom. Officers tried to
talk the guy into putting down the knife. He was drawing it across the
child's throat when the officers shot. They killed the boy, and the
perp.

Would you have rather they not have Taser? Which of course they did
not.

If you have seen any of my post on this group you will see that I'm
very
much if favor of parents using spanking as a form of discipline. Of
course
spanking is only a small part of parenting and some children never
need it.

Of course you are.. and no, even a single use of it in a child hood is
NOT a small part from the child's perspective.

I do not believe that parents are always at fault for a child
misbehaving.

Of course not. But they can build a resitent powerstruggling child very
quickly with CP. Some will fight back openly, and some will become
sneaks.

I
do have a problem with parents making their children out to be a
victim
every time the school tries to discipline them. Im sure you know that
while
a child might be a little angel at home they can be a monster at
school.

That's a perfect example of the kid that can't fight back against his
beloved parents but will go and take his or her rage out in the
community. Can hardly wait to grow up those kiddies.

School have to be able to discipline and parents need to back them
up. If
parents would do this rather than always defending their childs
action the
child would in most cases get in trouble less. Of couse their are
times when
a parent does need to defend their child and should.

Oh, you mean paddle, don't you.

It's not working, and it's very dangerous:
http://www.corpun.com/uss00303.htm

It's only fair that I warn anyone wishing to view by posting the
warning that came with this link below:

Are our children safe at your school? (If this or any other PDF page
fails to open due to a popup blocker on your system, hold down the
"Ctrl" button and click the link again.) Photographs of
schoolchildren's paddling-related injuries and an open letter to
educators and education policymakers in paddling districts
WARNING - These images may be deeply disturbing to some viewers. Do not
open this page if children are present.

http://nospank.net/a7-04.pdf

School are running out of option and suspension both in and out of
school
are becoming the only options. When I was in elementary school not a
single
child was suspended.

A paddling school?

Suspension didn't start happening until middle school
and it was usually for fighting. I'm sure Greegor that this principle
was at
his wits end and did this with the child's interest at heart. If I
found out
my child misbehaved so bad that a principle had to take those
measures he
would likely be punished when he got home. This is not a issue of
Zero
Tolerance, this child had been a problem for awhile.

What you have, billf, is greegor, obviously grown from a spanked child.


What he's done TO you here is what he does to his opponents. He failed
to give you all the information, and set you up.

There as no paddling or other discipline issue here. Just a child gone
out of control and a terrible danger to himself. He was about to
suicide by glass.

And he has used a "9 year old" to lie to you. Their were three major
incidents being discussed where questions about the use of Taser came
up.

The 9 year old with the self inflicted injuries using broken glass.
A 15 year old, or possibly older, teen boy that had been asked to
simply put away a gameboy during math class, sent to the AP's office,
who asked him to leave it with him until after school, and another
refusal to comply, and a cop that was asked to assist. The cop did as
cops must...he did a Terri Pat, and the boy attacked him. And two or
three people couldn't control him physically.

The third one was the most difficult to assess, because there were no
witnesses apparently. But it was yet another matter of life saving. A
12 year old girl had cut classes and done the backyard party thing that
kids do nowadays when cutting class. They go to one of their homes
where the parents are away at work, and they party up the yard. She was
drunk. The officer that came was returning her to SCHOOL..and she ran,
right toward traffic. He could not catch her on foot.

He tased her to stop her before this drunk ran into traffic. Yet
another child whose parents owe a great debt to an LEO that thought
fast and smart.

While you and I are miles apart in our beliefs about children, you will
NOT find me concealing information like your twit buddy just did and
entrapping.

I fight fair. If mean...r r r r r r

I don't doubt but what we could find cases of misuse of the Taser. I do
not think these three instances would qualify as misuse. And I DO
respect that deaths of perps and alledged perps and BYSTANDERS has gone
way way down with cops deploying taser.

Did you know that police have, in situations where firearms are used,
about 11 times the rate of shooting innocent bystanders than legally
armed citizens do?

Don't blame the cops though. The difference is explained by the citizen
being ON scene at the time of the defensive shooting and KNOWING the
perp is, and the police arriving only after the crime and the perp is
not clearly identified.

Yet, if you put a taser in their hand where it can be used that would
lower the peripheral damage and damage to many a suspect. Out of about
500k uses they've had less than 10 deaths as I recall. But you can find
the exact information by going back and looking at the threads in the
ng on the subject.

I won't con you. Greegor will. It's all he knows:

http://tinyurl.com/4sk2r

Enjoy. And if you appreciate what those cops did for those kids, send
an e-mail to their departments giving credit to the quick thinking
officers.

Even the one with the gameboy teen. It could have gone very bad very
quick without a harmless way to subdue that boy. Taser hurts, it
doesn't kill.

Kane



or" wrote in message
oups.com...
Billy F:
Are you in favor of Police going to schools
and using Tasers on 9 year olds who won't
hand over the handheld computer game?
How would this misbehavior be the
result of parenting choices?

I see you blame everything on parents.
Would you also therefore MAINTAIN
parents legal right to spank?

If you're going to BLAME the parents,
then I hope you'd give them the latitude
to discipline the child.