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#11
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Virginia Tech Massacre and Campus Security
"Mr. Y" expounded:
Since this guy was going to kill himself anyways, the fear of another person with a gun would not deter him. Who cares about his fear? Another person with a gun could have stopped him. Doesn't matter if he feared it or not. -- Ann e-mail address is not checked |
#12
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Virginia Tech Massacre and Campus Security
Kane wrote:
It only takes ONE. But that one seems to be so easy to get in the USA. Buy at a gun fair and you don't need a Police check, A safe, to put it in or even ID The obvious answer is the one we "gun nuts" know perfectly well by statistical data analysis works. An armed citizenry reduces the 'urge' when the person knows he or she can be shot down by a legally armed citizen, and two, that care about that or not, the murderous rampage will stop when the murderer is down and or dead. So your answer is more guns. With so many guns in the US why is the USA not the safest country in the world. No one could do it. Imagine if that janitor you heard talk about being shot at about five times, as he had to run away, had himself been properly armed, and fired back. Do a ng google on talk.politics.guns searching for "Tacoma Mall." The armed citizen was hit even BEFORE he could get a shot off, but the perp ran and hid and STOPPED SHOOTING PEOPLE. It is wonderfuly sobering to the crazy to get return fire. They may decide later to suicide by their own hand, but there is something about someone ELSE shooting at you that tends to slow the scenario down considerably. A couple of school shootings in England, under similar circumstances, that is that it was illegal to carry on schoolgrounds, ended with a paroxism of gun control. How's the UK doing today? MORE GUN RELATED AND OVERALL VIOLENT CRIME than ever before. Gun deaths per 100,000 United States 14.24 England and Wales 0.41 This relatively peaceful nation, one of those with the LOWEST gun crime in the world, how has among the highest violent crime rates in the civilized, or Western, world. Thinking is the answer, not lockstep gun ban drooling. What the university missed was sending out ARMED patrols to monitor the other buildings quickly after the first incident of a killing. But like cops everywhere, when the action starts, they tend to "clump" at the site, then hang around getting their "hit" of adrenaline, yakkin' it up, instead of going back out immediately on patrol, or never coming to the incident site in the first place. In this time and place, where both criminals and terrorists KNOW how to create a situation to draw the cops off their primary target, or their secondary one for that matter, having ANY slowdown in patrols and changes in distribution of LE staff is totally stupid. My we are slow to learn, eh? Kane |
#13
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Virginia Tech Massacre and Campus Security
Rob wrote:
Kane wrote: It only takes ONE. But that one seems to be so easy to get in the USA. Buy at a gun fair and you don't need a Police check, A safe, to put it in or even ID He didn't buy it at a gun fair (whatever that is). He had ID, he had no police record and the buy was legal under the rules. If one has no police record and is willing to wait the required number of days then you can buy a gun. A safe would not help in the case where a person wants to use his own gun. The problem here is that none of the dots were connected. Some people had one piece of evidence that he was mentally deranged, but no one person knew all of the problem Signs of derangement 1) Had an imaginary girl friend 2) Stalked some women 3) Wrote such violent plays that the female professor of the writing class asked that he be removed from her class 4) Threatened suicide And no one got him help until it was too late. |
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Virginia Tech Massacre and Campus Security
On Apr 17, 10:51 am, "Angelocracy.com"
wrote: At Virginia Tech some of the students moved tables in front of the door to try to keep the gunman from comming in. Because there was no way to lock the door. A few years back there was a shooting at a college or University in Canada. Can't remember the name of the school. But today because of that shooting all class room doors at that school can be lock and only a teacher can unlock them. The same should be done at all schools here in the USA. Also there should be a panic button in all classrooms and other parts of the schools. Also security cameras. I find it absolutely amazing that so many people think the way to reduce these kinds of events is to lock doors, send out warning text messages, install cameras, increase security forces, provide mental health care, monitor students activities, ban MySpace and a million other suggestions that totally miss the blindingly obvious: CONTROL THE BLOODY GUNS!! Sheesh!! Jeremy |
#15
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Virginia Tech Massacre and Campus Security
"Jeremy" wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 17, 10:51 am, "Angelocracy.com" wrote: At Virginia Tech some of the students moved tables in front of the door to try to keep the gunman from comming in. Because there was no way to lock the door. A few years back there was a shooting at a college or University in Canada. Can't remember the name of the school. But today because of that shooting all class room doors at that school can be lock and only a teacher can unlock them. The same should be done at all schools here in the USA. Also there should be a panic button in all classrooms and other parts of the schools. Also security cameras. I find it absolutely amazing that so many people think the way to reduce these kinds of events is to lock doors, send out warning text messages, install cameras, increase security forces, provide mental health care, monitor students activities, ban MySpace and a million other suggestions that totally miss the blindingly obvious: CONTROL THE BLOODY GUNS!! Sheesh!! Jeremy That's not going to happen. |
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Virginia Tech Massacre and Campus Security
Better lock up Quentin Tarentino right now by this criteria!
"Rosalie B." wrote in message ... Rob wrote: Kane wrote: It only takes ONE. But that one seems to be so easy to get in the USA. Buy at a gun fair and you don't need a Police check, A safe, to put it in or even ID He didn't buy it at a gun fair (whatever that is). He had ID, he had no police record and the buy was legal under the rules. If one has no police record and is willing to wait the required number of days then you can buy a gun. A safe would not help in the case where a person wants to use his own gun. The problem here is that none of the dots were connected. Some people had one piece of evidence that he was mentally deranged, but no one person knew all of the problem Signs of derangement 1) Had an imaginary girl friend 2) Stalked some women 3) Wrote such violent plays that the female professor of the writing class asked that he be removed from her class 4) Threatened suicide And no one got him help until it was too late. |
#17
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Virginia Tech Massacre and Campus Security
bluemoon wrote:
"Jeremy" wrote in message I find it absolutely amazing that so many people think the way to reduce these kinds of events is to lock doors, send out warning text messages, install cameras, increase security forces, provide mental health care, monitor students activities, ban MySpace and a million other suggestions that totally miss the blindingly obvious: CONTROL THE BLOODY GUNS!! Sheesh!! That's not going to happen. No, I know sigh. The USA will always be a place where someone with a recent mental health evaluation and numerous complaints of disturbing behaviour on file can walk into a shop and buy a machine specifically designed to kill and enough ammo to kill 150 with it. Jeremy |
#18
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Virginia Tech Massacre and Campus Security
k-12 Schools did more to keep students safe. Virginia Tech is in
Montgomery County. Montgomery County Public Schools did more to keep K-12 students safe. They acted faster and wiser than Virginia Tech. After learning of the frist shooting at 7:15 at Virginia Tech. Montgomery County Public Schools took extra security precautions to keep there students safe. And also took steps to inform the parents of the students. This all before Virginia Tech sent out an email to there students at 9:26, and before the 2 shooting at 9:45. So maybe Tiffany C. Anderson the Superintendent of Montgomery County Public Schools , should be made President of Virginia Tech. http://angelocracy.com/ http://angelocracy.blogspot.com/ |
#19
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Virginia Tech Massacre and Campus Security
On Apr 17, 5:55 pm, "Mr. Y" wrote:
Don't buy it. And I think that the Virginia Governor is an idiot for showing such a pro-NRA stance. Had there been just ONE armed person to return fire he might never have made it OUT of the first building where he murdered. If one could only buy shotguns, then they would be harder to conceal and shoot up 32 people with. Vise. Hacksaw. Very nasty weapon that would have done MORE carnage. Ever handled a short barrelled shotgun? He had on a coat that could easily have concealed my OWN home protection shotgun (not the only protection I keep of course) a Rem. Marine Magnum 870. 18" barrel. You don't even need a long coat. But if you were worried about it "printing" through your clothes you could easily carry it in various packages commonly seen on campuses....like art students carry their portfolios around. No one would even notice you. The answer? Obvious. Some OTHER deterent, my friend. Like the sure knowledge that the odds are high that someone along the way will be armed and take YOU out before you do very much damage. Now had that janitor that Cho shot at five times had access to a gun ... hmmmmmmm. But they would be good for home defense. Since this guy was going to kill himself anyways, the fear of another person with a gun would not deter him. Presumptuous of you. Why did he not wait for the cops and shoot them to make them shoot him then? THAT would prove he wasn't "afraid to die." You mistake the motives for suicide. My take is that, like at Columbine..where the shooters had every intention of living on afterward, the reality of their acting out eventually become apparent to them, and the horror of what they have done overcomes them. THEN they decide to die. He shot himself ONLY when the cops were closing in. He was most certainly "afraid" of OTHERS with guns, lad. Stop and think before babbling. Your babble will be more creative then. Look up the Tacoma mall shooting in tpg. Stop your wishful thinking. You cannot "remove the guns." It is impossible for many reasons, some social, some practical matters. Mass murders are committed with explosives and flammables, and poisons with even less effort. Do a little searching. Those who wish to kill can ONLY have their chances of success limited by those with the means to stop them. And in this country, the US, you cannot incarcerate someone (theoretically) for intent, unless they are clear about the target(s). Cho was not. Until it was too late and the only thing, besides himself, that could stop him, was someone with equal or better firepower. Considering the number of groups you posted to, and I've kept in the addy field, at least ONE person reading will one day face a deadly force crises. Will they and others die because they suffered the kind of thinking errors you do? I hope not. Kane "Kane" wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 17, 7:51 am, "Angelocracy.com" wrote: Virginia Tech Shooting At Virginia Tech some of the students moved tables in front of the door to try to keep the gunman from comming in. Because there was no way to lock the door. A few years back there was a shooting at a college or University in Canada. Can't remember the name of the school. But today because of that shooting all class room doors at that school can be lock and only a teacher can unlock them. The same should be done at all schools here in the USA. Also there should be a panic button in all classrooms and other parts of the schools. Also security cameras. The frist shooting happen at 7:15. The second happen at 9:45. There was no alert sent out to students about the shooting at 7:15 until 9:26. People were still coming on to Virginia Tech. Students were still make there way to class. After the 2 shooting at 9:45 a lock down order was given about 15 min later. If a lock down order was given right after the frist shooting at 7:15 the death toll would have been much less. The school and the police drop the ball on this one. In the weeks to come people will lose there jobs over this. There will be many law suits. http://angelocracy.com/ http://angelocracy.blogspot.com/ Hmmm...interesting thoughts. Anyone that knows the routine, as this STUDENT obviously did, can plan ahead, as this STUDENT obviously did (door chains, and filing serial numbers off two guns?), would be likely to also plan ahead to deal with locked doors. As it was, in two instances, I believe, just blocking the door stopped him from reentering a room he had just shot up. One by students using just their feet (two people I believe) and one using a large desk or cabinet, which he shot through but could not come through. This was a thoroughly americanized young man (came to the US at 8 years old). I'll bet you he knew his way around a hardware store or farm supply. I can think of three things, portable, that would take me through just about any classroom door in a split second from either kind of store...and no, I won't list them specifically. What happened at Virginia Tech is the same kind of bs that goes on wherever gun grabbers, and ignorance collide. People think a ban produces less opportunity to get a gun. It only takes ONE. The obvious answer is the one we "gun nuts" know perfectly well by statistical data analysis works. An armed citizenry reduces the 'urge' when the person knows he or she can be shot down by a legally armed citizen, and two, that care about that or not, the murderous rampage will stop when the murderer is down and or dead. No one could do it. Imagine if that janitor you heard talk about being shot at about five times, as he had to run away, had himself been properly armed, and fired back. Do a ng google on talk.politics.guns searching for "Tacoma Mall." The armed citizen was hit even BEFORE he could get a shot off, but the perp ran and hid and STOPPED SHOOTING PEOPLE. It is wonderfuly sobering to the crazy to get return fire. They may decide later to suicide by their own hand, but there is something about someone ELSE shooting at you that tends to slow the scenario down considerably. A couple of school shootings in England, under similar circumstances, that is that it was illegal to carry on schoolgrounds, ended with a paroxism of gun control. How's the UK doing today? MORE GUN RELATED AND OVERALL VIOLENT CRIME than ever before. This relatively peaceful nation, one of those with the LOWEST gun crime in the world, how has among the highest violent crime rates in the civilized, or Western, world. Thinking is the answer, not lockstep gun ban drooling. What the university missed was sending out ARMED patrols to monitor the other buildings quickly after the first incident of a killing. But like cops everywhere, when the action starts, they tend to "clump" at the site, then hang around getting their "hit" of adrenaline, yakkin' it up, instead of going back out immediately on patrol, or never coming to the incident site in the first place. In this time and place, where both criminals and terrorists KNOW how to create a situation to draw the cops off their primary target, or their secondary one for that matter, having ANY slowdown in patrols and changes in distribution of LE staff is totally stupid. My we are slow to learn, eh? Kane |
#20
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Virginia Tech Massacre and Campus Security
On Apr 18, 4:35 am, Ann wrote:
"Mr. Y" expounded: Since this guy was going to kill himself anyways, Dear Mr. Y, By the by. NO suicide note was found in his room or at his parents home.. Nothing. He was as likely to wish to continue to live as anyone else, UNTIL he had killed and had to suddenly face the reality of his actions. AND that armed LE was fast approaching. the fear of another person with a gun would not deter him. Nonsense. And irrelevant. Who cares about his fear? Another person with a gun could have stopped him. Doesn't matter if he feared it or not. -- Ann e-mail address is not checked Ann, I couldn't have said it more succinctly eloquent me very own self. Kane |
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