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#11
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Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home
Does anyone know if this is the family that was profiled in TIME magazine? I remember a family with lots of kids, and both parents were sent to Iraq, with the grandmother leaving her then somewhat not terribly healthy husband to take care of the kids. After the grandmother got there the grandfather took a turn for the worse, she couldn't go back to help and has been watching these kids and worrying about her husband and having no idea when anyone is coming home. The stress was wearing on the grandmother, and her health was beginning to look iffy. It was an excellent article detailing how much hardship war puts these families in, even when they thought they had back up. I'm disappointed our military can't give these families more help back home. I'd pay more taxes for that. I read that article too and something makes me think it's the same family. The grandfather stayed in their house and the grandmother went to the kids' house. |
#12
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Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home
On 5 Nov 2003 15:34:18 GMT, Ignoramus14934
wrote: Enrolling into NG with 7 kids was absolutely the stupidest thing to do. Did she have 7 kids when she enrolled? I wonder how many she had and why she enrolled in the first place. Still I do think that she should have known that deployment was a possibility and she has to honor her commitment despite any change of heart. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#13
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Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home
"Sophie" wrote in message
... She's crazy if she thought she'd never have to leave her children at some point. On the other hand, you have to wonder (or at least *I* have to wonder) how the recruiter "sold" National Guard service to her. I don't get the impression that there's a whole lot of talk when people sign up about doing long terms of service in foreign wars, especially when you're talking about the National Guard, which most people tend to think of as being intended more for domestic defensive purposes. I agree it was naive of her to think that she wouldn't be deployed, but I also think a *lot* of people who sign up for things like the Reserves and the National Guard are really led down the garden path: Look, here are all these wonderful benefits and all you have to do is be available a couple of weekends every year and if we ever call you up (with the unstated assumption that such call-ups are rare). Obviously, I think people'd be less likely to buy that line under current conditions, but if she enlisted five years ago--well, she might not have had much reason to question that it was a win-win deal. I just think we have a serious problem in the way our volunteer military operates. I have the utmost respect for people who choose to go into the military, but I also believe that a large majority of people in the military wouldn't be there if they had other viable options. The military, especially the enlisted forces, is hardly a representative cross-section of the American population; instead, it's disproportionately made up of people whose grew up at or near the poverty line. I strongly suspect that the way we treat our military forces (when we use them, how much we pay them, etc.) if we had mandatory service for all able-bodied citizens. IOW, it's a lot easier to expend military resources when the people making the decision don't have family members paying the price. -- Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [20mo] mom) This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: "Rejuvinate your skin." -- Hydroderm ad Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning. Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls! All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman |
#14
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Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home
"Circe" wrote in message news:Bafqb.5857$7B2.2952@fed1read04... "Sophie" wrote in message ... She's crazy if she thought she'd never have to leave her children at some point. On the other hand, you have to wonder (or at least *I* have to wonder) how the recruiter "sold" National Guard service to her. I don't get the impression that there's a whole lot of talk when people sign up about doing long terms of service in foreign wars, especially when you're talking about the National Guard, which most people tend to think of as being intended more for domestic defensive purposes. I agree it was naive of her to think that she wouldn't be deployed, but I also think a *lot* of people who sign up for things like the Reserves and the National Guard are really led down the garden path: Look, here are all these wonderful benefits and all you have to do is be available a couple of weekends every year and if we ever call you up (with the unstated assumption that such call-ups are rare). Obviously, I think people'd be less likely to buy that line under current conditions, but if she enlisted five years ago--well, she might not have had much reason to question that it was a win-win deal. Oh it's known recruiters fib. We've all heard about the guy who was joining the Navy and was told he'd never have to go on a ship eyeroll I just think we have a serious problem in the way our volunteer military operates. I have the utmost respect for people who choose to go into the military, but I also believe that a large majority of people in the military wouldn't be there if they had other viable options. The military, especially the enlisted forces, is hardly a representative cross-section of the American population; instead, it's disproportionately made up of people whose grew up at or near the poverty line. Wow, that's SO off. Do you know how many Enlisteds have college degrees? Believe it or not, some people *choose* to go Enlisted. I strongly suspect that the way we treat our military forces (when we use them, how much we pay them, etc.) if we had mandatory service for all able-bodied citizens. IOW, it's a lot easier to expend military resources when the people making the decision don't have family members paying the price. -- Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [20mo] mom) |
#15
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Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home
"Sophie" wrote in message
... "Circe" wrote in message news:Bafqb.5857$7B2.2952@fed1read04... Oh it's known recruiters fib. We've all heard about the guy who was joining the Navy and was told he'd never have to go on a ship eyeroll I just think we have a serious problem in the way our volunteer military operates. I have the utmost respect for people who choose to go into the military, but I also believe that a large majority of people in the military wouldn't be there if they had other viable options. The military, especially the enlisted forces, is hardly a representative cross-section of the American population; instead, it's disproportionately made up of people whose grew up at or near the poverty line. Wow, that's SO off. Do you know how many Enlisteds have college degrees? Not nearly as many as in the population at large, I don't think. Don't most people who have college degrees in the military wind up in the officer corps, though? (Showing my ignorance here.) Believe it or not, some people *choose* to go Enlisted. Oh, I believe. And "low income" was probably the wrong term to use. There's no question, however, that wealthy are virtually non-existent in the military population. Minorities are vastly overrepresented (12.5% of all Americans are black, but 22% of people in the military are black; that's a pretty stark demographic difference between the American population at large and the volunteer military population). And there's little doubt that you don't see very many kids of top level politicians enlisting in the military these days. My point is that, without a draft to put *all* young people, including the children of the folks who choose how to exercise military power, the people at the top are not putting their own sons and daughters in the line of fire by sending the country into war. -- Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [20mo] mom) This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: "Rejuvinate your skin." -- Hydroderm ad Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning. Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls! All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman |
#16
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Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home
"Ignoramus14934" wrote in message
... As much as I hate this criminal war, the parents brought it upon themselves and put the kids at risk. No one drafted them. i know here (for example) though, the enlistment ads on telly imply that joining an armed force means you get to fly an aeroplane (whee!), or build playgrounds for orphans in east timor (awww) or "make friends for life" (smashing!) or some such thing. the recruiters' job is to recruit, not to break up people's fragile notions of what joining an armed force might actually mean, and by the time that part is explicitly mentioned, the recruitees are as likely as not to be carried away with what they're doing, not thinking long & hard at the very last moment. my dh wanted to join the army (& tried twice) in order to get a trade (he wanted to be a fitter & turner). he wasn't thinking that being a fitter & turner might mean being killed in combat. one simply doesn't think that - particularly in australia in 1985 when you are only 17 years old... and *most* recruits are like he was, join at a very young age, during peace time, and with the exception of officers, they are highly unlikely to be educated people. they just need a job & the armed forces make it easy for them. The war does not strain that family. This war strains families whose parents were killed by American cluster bombs, etc. As for the 7 kids family, the parents own immense stupidity strains that family. i agree with your summation of this war, however, what of the people who join up in good faith (i.e. that they may be called upon to *defend their own country*)? many people (e.g. me) *would* defend their own country if necessary, but be highly disinclined to go making war in someone else's. but if they join up in good faith that they would only be called upon to defend their own country & that's an acceptable risk to them, it's a bit unfair to say they're "immensely stupid" because they are disinclined to participate in some *other* war when, by that point, they don't have much choice. in general, though, i tend to agree with you. i dislike the idea of mothers in the military, full stop. it's not a question of discrimination. children need their mothers & that is more important. kylie |
#17
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Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home
"John Stone" wrote in message m... A woman on 15 day leave in the US from Iraq is refusing to return to Iraq - she says her 7 children need her at home and that she is quitting the military. The US govt. says otherwise and may prosecute her for desertion. Apparently her husband is also in the military and the childrens grandmother has been caring for the children while they have been gone. This presents a touchy situation for the Pentagon. Do you want to look like you are beating up on a mother of 7 by sending her to prison or do you let her out and set an example that others are going to use to get out of their military obligations?. I saw the story on CNN this morning. Don't join if you can't handle the responsibility. I hope she goes to court martial. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#18
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Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home
"Circe" wrote in message news:kPfqb.6001$7B2.4200@fed1read04... Not nearly as many as in the population at large, I don't think. Don't most people who have college degrees in the military wind up in the officer corps, though? (Showing my ignorance here.) No. Because having a college degree doesn't necessarily mean you can become an officer. I'd take Boot camp over OCS any day of the week. I think in my graduating boot camp class, at least 1/3 of us had college degrees, 1/3 were kids right out of high school and the other 1/3 was made up of people who just couldn't find their niche in the civilian world and single moms. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#19
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Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home
I think the custody fight with the dad's ex-wife is a key part of this
(from watching the piece on it on Today this a.m., which included a brief interview with the mom). My understanding is that the ex-wife (who is the mother of two of the couples' yours-mine-ours family) is now suing for custody of her two kids, and the law in the state where this is happening (Wash?) says that if neither custodial parent is actually able to reside with the kids, then custody goes to the other parent -- in this case, the ex-wife. This seems reasonable to me, though I really feel for the two military parents and don't feel comfortable that, essentially, they are being penalized for doing military service. I mean, if I were to divorce my husband and he got custody but then couldn't be there, I think I should be "next in line" to keep my kids, not my ex-husband's wife's mother! Unless, of course, I had been found unable to care appropriately for my kids. The military (now AWOL) mom on the Today show said she and her husband had decided to have her go AWOL because they believed that placement with the ex-wife would not be good for the two kids, but noone said that any judge or otherwise "objective" individual agreed. I sympathize with the current natl. guard members over in Iraq, depending on how long ago they joined up. I knew some people who joined the guard back in the mid-80s and none of us ever considered the possibility they'd be shipped overseas. What's happening in the guard now (that is, so many being sent overseas) is unprecedented, AFAIK. However, for the past few years, we have seen that the world has changed, and noone should voluntarily enlist in any of the armed services unless they *expect* to go to war. And noone should ever have joined any of the armed forces unless they were 100% ready to go. I have always thought that two married people with kids should not be allowed to both be in the service. Not sure how a policy could be devised to effect that restriction, but it should, somehow. It does seem that a draft is the only fair way to go (regardless of how many enlisted poeple have college degress, most who enlist do so because they need good work), though I can only hope and pray that if the draft is ever reinstated, then our leaders will take their war-making and peace-planning responsibilities a lot more seriously than our current president and his people have. (John Stone) wrote in message m... A woman on 15 day leave in the US from Iraq is refusing to return to Iraq - she says her 7 children need her at home and that she is quitting the military. The US govt. says otherwise and may prosecute her for desertion. Apparently her husband is also in the military and the childrens grandmother has been caring for the children while they have been gone. This presents a touchy situation for the Pentagon. Do you want to look like you are beating up on a mother of 7 by sending her to prison or do you let her out and set an example that others are going to use to get out of their military obligations?. I saw the story on CNN this morning. |
#20
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Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home
In article , Nevermind says...
I think the custody fight with the dad's ex-wife is a key part of this (from watching the piece on it on Today this a.m., which included a brief interview with the mom). My understanding is that the ex-wife (who is the mother of two of the couples' yours-mine-ours family) is now suing for custody of her two kids, and the law in the state where this is happening (Wash?) says that if neither custodial parent is actually able to reside with the kids, then custody goes to the other parent -- in this case, the ex-wife. This seems reasonable to me, though I really feel for the two military parents and don't feel comfortable that, essentially, they are being penalized for doing military service. Ah, I knew there had to be more to this... I mean, if I were to divorce my husband and he got custody but then couldn't be there, I think I should be "next in line" to keep my kids, not my ex-husband's wife's mother! Unless, of course, I had been found unable to care appropriately for my kids. Custody concerns permanent situations - it isn't obvious to me that, if a parent has custody, then they could not make the same kind of alternate arrangements intact families do for situations like this and health emergencies, etc. That grandma stays with the kids, even for months, does not neglect or abandonment make. Whether full custody is arranged by a court or simply a given in an intact family. Of course, a hostile ex wanting custody waiting in the wings is bound to see what edges of the law can be pushed around in their favor. Sucks. The military (now AWOL) mom on the Today show said she and her husband had decided to have her go AWOL because they believed that placement with the ex-wife would not be good for the two kids, but noone said that any judge or otherwise "objective" individual agreed. I sympathize with the current natl. guard members over in Iraq, depending on how long ago they joined up. I knew some people who joined the guard back in the mid-80s and none of us ever considered the possibility they'd be shipped overseas. Excuse me? What exactly did they think they were joining? They just figured the odds were small. What's happening in the guard now (that is, so many being sent overseas) is unprecedented, AFAIK. However, for the past few years, we have seen that the world has changed, and noone should voluntarily enlist in any of the armed services unless they *expect* to go to war. And noone should ever have joined any of the armed forces unless they were 100% ready to go. I have always thought that two married people with kids should not be allowed to both be in the service. Not sure how a policy could be devised to effect that restriction, but it should, somehow. It's always been a matter of odds. The *purpose* of the guard and those monthly weekends and yearly weeks in training pointed to - now what on earth do you THINK that was about?! Perhaps it's because I grew up in a military family with a father who is a veteran of three wars, but this odds-betting "I didn't mean to do war" begging-off about guard deployments is just mind-boggling. A colleague I work with every day, a man in his 30s with three girls, joined the Army National Guard. He came back from basic and armoured training and reported again to work on September 10, 2001. Guess what came in a phone call the next evening. Banty (ya think he just thought he was playing soldiers-and-tanks...I don't think so) |
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