Just got out of jail...

Bill in Co. wrote:
I guess that means Jesse Jackson has done good!! And to think I
thought there was a stilll a problem there...!

There's always a problem when Jesse's in town.

Werebat wrote:
But how can we begin to make them accountable? Surely there is
something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city
hall"?

Write letters to the paper editor.

I have considered editing what I wrote a bit and sending it off to
the local papers. Any suggestions?

I would keep it less specific. Talk about their general lack of
compassion, etc.

Write letters to your politicians.

Indeed. Although "Write your Congressman about it" is a euphemism
for "**** Off" around these parts.

Vote. Actually pay attention to what to what judges and politicians
do, and vote accordingly. Rememeber how they screwed you 2 years
ago, not just what they gave you 2 weeks before the election.

Do we elect judges? I'm ignorant about this.

I don't think this happens in all parts of the country. Here, in
NoCal, our judges are "re-elected" every so often. They usually run
unopposed. Most people have no idea who these people are, so they
check the box anyway. Irresponsible.

Werebat wrote:
But how can we begin to make them accountable? Surely there is
something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city
hall"?

Write letters to the paper editor.

I have considered editing what I wrote a bit and sending it off to
the local papers. Any suggestions?

I would keep it less specific. Talk about their general lack of
compassion, etc.

Write letters to your politicians.

Indeed. Although "Write your Congressman about it" is a euphemism
for "**** Off" around these parts.

Vote. Actually pay attention to what to what judges and politicians
do, and vote accordingly. Rememeber how they screwed you 2 years
ago, not just what they gave you 2 weeks before the election.

Do we elect judges? I'm ignorant about this.

I don't think this happens in all parts of the country. Here, in
NoCal, our judges are "re-elected" every so often. They usually run
unopposed. Most people have no idea who these people are, so they
check the box anyway. Irresponsible.

Annie,

For what it's worth, I think your son got it worse than I did --
depending on how you look at it. If it really went down the way you
tell it, it seems to me that your son has been given a wonderful
opportunity to nail the court system with a lawsuit. This is *why*
the judge apologized and the officer was punished -- they are afraid he
will sue them. If they were not afraid he would sue them, they would
not have bothered.

I know he's just a kid, and he probably wants to put the whole thing
behind him -- just like a rape victim of the same age (and the
similarities don't end there). But just like that rape victim he'll
inevitably find himself at a day when he regrets not having done anything
about it when he gets the chance.

Hope he changes his mind.

- Ron ^*^




Annie wrote:

"Werebat" wrote in message

I write this mostly to get it out and sort out my own feelings on the
matter, but I am also curious about the perceptions and experiences of
others. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this?

- Ron ^*^

Ron........

They do what they want, when they want, irregardless........my 20 year old
son was arrested unlawfully when he called to report his car stolen a couple
months ago, and spent 8 days/7 nights in jail for no cause......illegally

This is a kid with absolutley no record who had never been in
trouble.......about a month before, he'd missed a court date on a speeding
ticket, immediately a warrant was issued and that evening an officer came to
arrest him......he wasn't here.......

Very next day he got ahold of the court clerk and explained what had
happened (the court date was Tues, he thought it was a Thurs), she gave him
a new court date and removed the warrant........

The next week he went to court and made the 1st payment on the ticket

This officer returned after that and refused to listen to what I told him,
that there was no more warrant and he should check with the court (this is a
very small town, I might add)

2 or 3 weeks later, he came home and found his car had been
stolen.......when he called to report it, he was arrested......he tried to
tell this officer (same one) he had no warrant but he wouldn't
listen.......and he couldn't prove he'd been to court, as his receipt/papers
were in the stolen car..........

There was no warrant on the computer at the county jail either, only the
original paper warrant this officer had........

I had no money, so my son had to sit in county with the gang bangers and
dopers for 8 days and 7 nights...........

When he got to court, the judge wanted to know why he was there and he told
her he didn't know..........
She cleared the ticket, and told him the city owed him an apology........
Since this officer has apparently done other unscruptulous things (my
understanding), he was put on 3 months unpaid suspension and a good chance
of "possible transfer"............(whoopdee doo)

I have lost all respect, much less faith in this system
Seems they can do anything they want, with few real consequences
I don't think this man should ever be an officer again, myself
And I think removing a ticket and an apology is pretty lame, as well

I would very much like to see him talk to someone about possibley suing the
city/officer, but he can't even talk about this......he had been working
hard to get that car up and running and a little money saved, in order to go
back to CO and get himself in school..........now he's just "lost" sorta
He'll never feel safe around cops, I think, now......imagine.........20
years old and green as grass and the car you've worked on for hours and
hours and spent every spare dime you have to get running is
stolen........and you are arrested.......and then have to stay in there that
long...........how would you feel or think?

Welcome to the real world of "Police State"
They can do anything they want to you and get away with it, it's just that
simple............
Unless of course, you have political/business/money connections..........

Hope you don't ever go through anything like this again (at least anytime
soon)
Time we all learned to goosestep..................!
I'll bet Saddam is treated better than this, sheesh

Annie,

For what it's worth, I think your son got it worse than I did --
depending on how you look at it. If it really went down the way you
tell it, it seems to me that your son has been given a wonderful
opportunity to nail the court system with a lawsuit. This is *why*
the judge apologized and the officer was punished -- they are afraid he
will sue them. If they were not afraid he would sue them, they would
not have bothered.

I know he's just a kid, and he probably wants to put the whole thing
behind him -- just like a rape victim of the same age (and the
similarities don't end there). But just like that rape victim he'll
inevitably find himself at a day when he regrets not having done anything
about it when he gets the chance.

Hope he changes his mind.

- Ron ^*^




Annie wrote:

"Werebat" wrote in message

I write this mostly to get it out and sort out my own feelings on the
matter, but I am also curious about the perceptions and experiences of
others. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this?

- Ron ^*^

Ron........

They do what they want, when they want, irregardless........my 20 year old
son was arrested unlawfully when he called to report his car stolen a couple
months ago, and spent 8 days/7 nights in jail for no cause......illegally

This is a kid with absolutley no record who had never been in
trouble.......about a month before, he'd missed a court date on a speeding
ticket, immediately a warrant was issued and that evening an officer came to
arrest him......he wasn't here.......

Very next day he got ahold of the court clerk and explained what had
happened (the court date was Tues, he thought it was a Thurs), she gave him
a new court date and removed the warrant........

The next week he went to court and made the 1st payment on the ticket

This officer returned after that and refused to listen to what I told him,
that there was no more warrant and he should check with the court (this is a
very small town, I might add)

2 or 3 weeks later, he came home and found his car had been
stolen.......when he called to report it, he was arrested......he tried to
tell this officer (same one) he had no warrant but he wouldn't
listen.......and he couldn't prove he'd been to court, as his receipt/papers
were in the stolen car..........

There was no warrant on the computer at the county jail either, only the
original paper warrant this officer had........

I had no money, so my son had to sit in county with the gang bangers and
dopers for 8 days and 7 nights...........

When he got to court, the judge wanted to know why he was there and he told
her he didn't know..........
She cleared the ticket, and told him the city owed him an apology........
Since this officer has apparently done other unscruptulous things (my
understanding), he was put on 3 months unpaid suspension and a good chance
of "possible transfer"............(whoopdee doo)

I have lost all respect, much less faith in this system
Seems they can do anything they want, with few real consequences
I don't think this man should ever be an officer again, myself
And I think removing a ticket and an apology is pretty lame, as well

I would very much like to see him talk to someone about possibley suing the
city/officer, but he can't even talk about this......he had been working
hard to get that car up and running and a little money saved, in order to go
back to CO and get himself in school..........now he's just "lost" sorta
He'll never feel safe around cops, I think, now......imagine.........20
years old and green as grass and the car you've worked on for hours and
hours and spent every spare dime you have to get running is
stolen........and you are arrested.......and then have to stay in there that
long...........how would you feel or think?

Welcome to the real world of "Police State"
They can do anything they want to you and get away with it, it's just that
simple............
Unless of course, you have political/business/money connections..........

Hope you don't ever go through anything like this again (at least anytime
soon)
Time we all learned to goosestep..................!
I'll bet Saddam is treated better than this, sheesh

Fido wrote:

"Phil #3" wrote in
ink.net:

The judicial system lacks honesty, ethics and integrity.

I think what it lacks is "accountability". A normal person would not only
apologize for thier mistake - a normal person would make amends, pay for
damages, and learn from their mistakes. The judiciary is incapable of
doing that. And we lack the means to hold them accoutable for such
outrageous behavior. As such, they have grown to serve only themselves, as
any organization that is not subject to accoutability or outside forces
will.

But how can we begin to *make* them accountable? Surely there is
something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city hall"?

- Ron ^*^

Fido wrote:

"Phil #3" wrote in
ink.net:

The judicial system lacks honesty, ethics and integrity.

I think what it lacks is "accountability". A normal person would not only
apologize for thier mistake - a normal person would make amends, pay for
damages, and learn from their mistakes. The judiciary is incapable of
doing that. And we lack the means to hold them accoutable for such
outrageous behavior. As such, they have grown to serve only themselves, as
any organization that is not subject to accoutability or outside forces
will.

But how can we begin to *make* them accountable? Surely there is
something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city hall"?

- Ron ^*^

Kenneth S. wrote:

Here's a question to think about. Is there any possibility that this
outrage would have been perpetrated on someone who belonged to one of
the official grievance groups in the U.S. -- women, homosexuals, racial
minorities, etc., etc.?

And here's another question? WHY are the courts (and the police, and
the whole legal system) in the U.S. so conspicuously free of
accountability for what they do in this context? The answer, to me, has
to be that heterosexual males, who are the only ones subjected to this
kind of treatment, are the one remaining official scapegoat group in the
U.S.

Especially *short* heterosexual males! :^)

Oh, and fat people.



This kind of thing will keep happening until fathers (and men
generally) have some way of fighting for their rights.

We do, though. What has to happen is that enough people have to get mad
enough to act (seems like that is not too far from happening), and a
viable option to the current system has to be instituted.

The fact is, no one really wants to hear about abused minority groups to
begin with. They ESPECIALLY don't want to hear about abused majority
groups, and in this you are right -- heterosexual men make pretty good
scapegoats. I've already heard too many stories from family members and
friends about men who have been treated shamefully by the legal system in
family court situations -- one recent one involved a man who made his
payments on time for 18 years, and a clerical error on the court's part
had him hauled into court where the judge derided him and said he made
her "sick" for trying to wriggle out of his responsibilities. When the
error came to light (the court had been accidentally crediting his
payments to another man with a similar name), there was no apology or
anything -- they just sent him on his way.

As you say -- lack of accountability. You can bet your damn ass that I'm
not going to walk into a courtroom and moon the judge, call her names,
tell her she makes me "sick"... I'm no fool and I know I'd be held
accountable. When positions of power are NOT held accountable... they
begin to attract more and more corrupt people to fill them.

Bitching isn't going to accomplish anything, though. What is being done
about this today? What *can* be done?

- Ron ^*^

Kenneth S. wrote:

Here's a question to think about. Is there any possibility that this
outrage would have been perpetrated on someone who belonged to one of
the official grievance groups in the U.S. -- women, homosexuals, racial
minorities, etc., etc.?

And here's another question? WHY are the courts (and the police, and
the whole legal system) in the U.S. so conspicuously free of
accountability for what they do in this context? The answer, to me, has
to be that heterosexual males, who are the only ones subjected to this
kind of treatment, are the one remaining official scapegoat group in the
U.S.

Especially *short* heterosexual males! :^)

Oh, and fat people.



This kind of thing will keep happening until fathers (and men
generally) have some way of fighting for their rights.

We do, though. What has to happen is that enough people have to get mad
enough to act (seems like that is not too far from happening), and a
viable option to the current system has to be instituted.

The fact is, no one really wants to hear about abused minority groups to
begin with. They ESPECIALLY don't want to hear about abused majority
groups, and in this you are right -- heterosexual men make pretty good
scapegoats. I've already heard too many stories from family members and
friends about men who have been treated shamefully by the legal system in
family court situations -- one recent one involved a man who made his
payments on time for 18 years, and a clerical error on the court's part
had him hauled into court where the judge derided him and said he made
her "sick" for trying to wriggle out of his responsibilities. When the
error came to light (the court had been accidentally crediting his
payments to another man with a similar name), there was no apology or
anything -- they just sent him on his way.

As you say -- lack of accountability. You can bet your damn ass that I'm
not going to walk into a courtroom and moon the judge, call her names,
tell her she makes me "sick"... I'm no fool and I know I'd be held
accountable. When positions of power are NOT held accountable... they
begin to attract more and more corrupt people to fill them.

Bitching isn't going to accomplish anything, though. What is being done
about this today? What *can* be done?

- Ron ^*^

Fido wrote:

Werebat wrote in :

Fido wrote:
Werebat wrote:


But how can we begin to *make* them accountable? Surely there is
something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city hall"?

- Ron ^*^

That's me with the sign, (next to the ninja):

http://www.tfcm.org/

It was about 5 degrees that day, 30 MPH winds and snowing hard. But we got
out there, dammit, because we were determined to have our voices heard.

Well, good. And did you have any concrete effect on anything yet? I
hope so, and I'd love to hear about it!


Where were you?

Umm... Probably Rhode Island?

- Ron ^*^