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help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)



 
 
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  #131  
Old July 25th 03, 06:13 AM
CME
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)


"Joelle" wrote in message
...
ome psychoes are either really good at faking normal or really do care so
much for me that they are dr. jekyll when they are with me and mr. hyde

to
other people or have been mr. hyde at times in the past and are trying


eally hard not to be when they are with me but after awhile the
undercurrent of danger comes to the surface but by then I'm entangled.


SIgh. I know I'm just farting in the wind here, but honestly Lorian, if

once
or twice you meet some guy who really did "change" after you got to know

him,
well, once can happen to anyone, twice, it's time to start thinking twice,

but
if this is happening to you often or "all the time" you really do have to

look
at yourself. Most men are not Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde - and if the majority

of
the men you are attracted to are, then you have to look at yourself and

why you
are drawn to that sort of person. Or you may be expecting it of them and

you
see it when it's not there.

Yea I know, I'm being oppressive and blaming the victim. I've really sort

of
given up on you - but maybe someone else reading this who is in the same
pattern will think about it and look at what they can do to change the

pattern.


Joelle


From what she's said though, is that that was the past. She isn't dating
anyone for exactly those reasons. And I don't think that pointing out how
one falls into patterns of behaviour is victim blaming, so hopefully she
sees that.

Christine


  #132  
Old July 25th 03, 08:37 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

turtledove wrote:

Woah!! I know that you and Paul have issues between each other...but
that doesn't mean that everyone has issues with him.


how you can defend him i do not understand. we keep having this same
argument brianne. how can you be my friend and at the same time defend a
man who consistently makes fun of my mental illness for god's sake? he
followed me here from alt.child-support to harass me and just like all the
others who have come here to troll me he has been welcomed by you and some
other regulars instead of condemned so he stayed and got along with you but
persisted in his harassment of me. thanks a lot.

And Cele posted once all about how sick Paul Fritz is to mock my mental
disability and how he needed to stop doing that and she thought she had the
support of the group regulars...

And Paul talks about his daughter here on a regular basis.


really? google.com tells otherwise. Of his 1,160 posts only 128 include
the word daughter and only 89 of those are about HIS daughter. 69 are about
lorain, 67 are about lorian, 61 are about loony, 16 are about looney, 14 are
about feminitwit, 2 are about loon, 52 are about how he discredits my
beliefs by saying it's just women's studies, 16 from feminism, and in 77
posts he just refers to me simply as LL. That is over 300. There are
probably more but I got tired of remembering all the names he has called me.

Most of his posts are not directed at you because you haven't been
posting here regularly except for the past 2 weeks.


I've been posting here for four years. He has been posting here for one
year. I came here for support as a single parent, he came here to harass me
and Moonshyne and he followed us from alt.child-support to do just that.
That is easy to prove, google tells all.

His introduction to the newsgroup a year ago this month was harassing
messages like:

From: "Paul Fritz"
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:55:49 -0400
Message-ID:

"BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

lorian with her classic "woman's studies " defense. When you cannot refute
the facts resort to this sort of response."

wrote in message
. net...
We try to warn people not to go to alt.child-support because of the sharks
over there ,they are obviously out for blood. Put up a fight, you get

more
blood. Try to leave, they follow the trail of blood. Bloody sharks.


"Nope, just posting the facts......something the like of you cannot
comprehend."

From: "Paul Fritz"
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:12:28 -0400
Message-ID:

"Moonie has been caught in another of her long string of lies So typical of
moonie to feign ignorance

Here is the original post where moonie invited everyone with headers. Her
invite is the second to last response by her She didn't get the nickname
'nasty' for nothing."

snip

It's [the parenting plan] posted to alt.support.single-parents -- you're

welcome to go see for yourself.

and just the other day still is harassing Moonshyne (Amy Lynn) (accusing her
of parental alienation which is pretty serious and routinely done over on
alt.child-support but I had hoped regulars here would not tolerate) with
this post:

Message-ID:
From: "Paul Fritz"
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 06:34:59 -0400

"Nope, but not surpising coming from the parental alienator amy
lynn...........ever the ASSuming ass..."

Paul has been
posting on a daily basis since he's been on here.


not every day, every week though. and he flirts with you, take a closer
look at how he treats the women he does not get along with, that is, the
women he chooses to take out his rage on ... is that really acceptable to
you? the dr. jekyll/mr. hyde thing is a serious problem, listen to me!

You take offense? Offense? How dare you try to control and
manipulate someone by using that choice of wording. Geez, you sound
like my grandmother when she takes 'offense' of me not going to her
church.


I'm not trying to control you, I'm telling you how I feel when you are
friendly toward people who go out of their way to hurt me every chance they
get for over a year!

Sweetheart.....STOP IT!!! You're having a good day, ENJOY IT! Why
waste so much time on such negativity. Light a candle, burn some
incense, meditate, go outside and look at the stars, listen to some
uplifting music, focus on the GOOD.


I am, but I can't just ignore the train wreck that is this news group
sometimes, LOL!

all said with the utmost love and respect,
*bri


oh, maybe I'll write a song about it and you can sing and dance to it while
Paul makes fun of it. LOL!

Really Brianne, this is serious. Think about this. Why do you feel the
need to keep the peace with men who you see continuously harassing other
women?


  #133  
Old July 25th 03, 08:44 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

Joelle wrote:
ome psychoes are either really good at faking normal or really do
care so much for me that they are dr. jekyll when they are with me
and mr. hyde to other people or have been mr. hyde at times in the
past and are trying


eally hard not to be when they are with me but after awhile the
undercurrent of danger comes to the surface but by then I'm
entangled.


SIgh. I know I'm just farting in the wind here, but honestly Lorian,
if once or twice you meet some guy who really did "change" after you
got to know him, well, once can happen to anyone, twice, it's time to
start thinking twice, but if this is happening to you often or "all
the time" you really do have to look at yourself. Most men are not
Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde - and if the majority of the men you are
attracted to are, then you have to look at yourself and why you are
drawn to that sort of person. Or you may be expecting it of them and
you see it when it's not there.

Yea I know, I'm being oppressive and blaming the victim. I've really
sort of given up on you - but maybe someone else reading this who is
in the same pattern will think about it and look at what they can do
to change the pattern.


Joelle


You must not be paying attention to this thread or something and are taking
this post out of context. I already said that I have been abstinent for
seven years, I've said that many times and I'm getting sick of saying it. I
have also said repeatedly that I already recognize the pattern of abuse in
my life. I grew up being abused, I attracted abusers as an adult, my son
learned to become an abuser. I have also said that psychoes are drawn to
the combination of my fiery personality and my lovingness and I am drawn to
them because I know how to be with them and I don't feel guilty with them
because they are always even more screwed up than I am and at least I get
something resembling love out of it. But I am most definitely better off
alone while I am in therapy and while I am in school and while I am trying
to see my son through his last years to adulthood. So wherever you were at
when you gave up on me, go back and pick up where you left off and try
again.


  #134  
Old July 25th 03, 09:11 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

Betsy wrote:

Nah, not brave.


well, I think most of us would beg to differ and would shrink at doing what
nurses do everyday, I know I couldn't do all that, my hat's off to you!

That's just what nursing is to me anymore. I became
a nurse to help people. I found the care given in the hospital was
less what I had hoped to provide. Running in and out of 8 patients
rooms, giving them all their medication, being available for the
doctors, and then running to a code situation (this was a cardiac
unit so that happened more often than I liked) made quality
difficult. I think what made me finally want to leave the hospital
was a patient that was brought into the emergency room by ambulance.
The paramedics were attempting to recuscitate, so we continued the
efforts. There were the external defibrillator pads on this guy
(these are used in place of paddles sometimes) because he just had a
pacemaker put in a week or so prior. The doctor asked if any of the
nurses knew how to administer the shock using the pads. I said, "I
do." So he tells me to give the shock. After that we get the flat
line. The guy was gone. The doctor patted my shoulder and said,
"Good job." I was speechless. I had participated in subjecting this
man's final moments to drugs, needles, the humility of nudity in a
strange environment, and finally the pain of electrical
cardioversion. This was not care, it seemed to me. It was torture.
The man was 89 years old, why couldn't we let him die in peace and
dignity. That's when I realized I needed to get out of the hospital.


The inhumanity of modern medicine astounds me at times.

I either needed to go into OB, or pediatrics, where there were much
greater 'successes,' or leave nursing altogether. Hospice work never
occurred to me. It was when I met up with a former class mate, and
former best friend but that's another story, and she told me about
her job with Hospice. I told her if there was another position open,
I would love to work there. She worked in a different county,
however. BUT one of the nurses where she worked, used to work at the
Hospice where I currently work, and she knew there was a position.
So all in all I think it was fate, or destiny, or divine calling.
Call it what you like, I am actually where I want to be, doing what I
want to do, and loving every minute of it. OK, not EVERY minute of
it. But I feel rewarded when I am finished with my work for the day.
I get to care for the WHOLE patient, not just, "the new pacemaker in
29," or, "The post-MI in 18." There is a true connection with these
people that I get to feel. And I feel the difference I make in lives
every day. It's a good feeling to get. Oh boy, is THIS off-topic!!


Now this is interesting to me because I am interested in a career in medical
genetics research.


I read your post, but I wasn't sure how to respond. Glad you are not
in too much pain from that. If I had become stuck in such a fashion,
no doubt I would be immobile. I think that has to do with the
location of injury. Mine is cervical, and the neck is an area that
controls the rest of the body, so to speak. Damage to the cervical
spinal cord causes weakness or paralysis to the lower part of the
body. That's why I am so afraid of surgery to that area. Therapy
has helped a great deal, but the arthritis in my neck will never go
away. I wake up achy every day, and if I have a nap for some reason,
I am achy when I wake from that as well. I am 31, and falling apart.


Me too. I'm 36 but I look 26 and feel a lot older than either one. My
saying is that I look young but my eyes and back know how old I really am!

Again I am glad you are mobile, and I hope you feel better soon.

Betsy


I feel grateful to be free, I'm gonna get some coasters to put under the
corners of the coffee table so that never happens again! Sorry to hear of
your upper back pain, believe me I can sympathize. chronic pain sucks.
Especially for such an active career as the one you have. There are others
on this newsgroup who can relate to chronic pain as well, you can search
google.com for fairly recent discussions we've had on that subject and
advice and support I've already forgotten. Take care!




  #135  
Old July 25th 03, 11:59 AM
turtledove
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)


wrote in message
. net...
turtledove wrote:

Woah!! I know that you and Paul have issues between each other...but
that doesn't mean that everyone has issues with him.


how you can defend him i do not understand. we keep having this same
argument brianne. how can you be my friend and at the same time defend a
man who consistently makes fun of my mental illness for god's sake? he
followed me here from alt.child-support to harass me and just like all the
others who have come here to troll me he has been welcomed by you and some
other regulars instead of condemned so he stayed and got along with you

but
persisted in his harassment of me. thanks a lot.

And Cele posted once all about how sick Paul Fritz is to mock my mental
disability and how he needed to stop doing that and she thought she had

the
support of the group regulars...

And Paul talks about his daughter here on a regular basis.


really? google.com tells otherwise. Of his 1,160 posts only 128 include
the word daughter and only 89 of those are about HIS daughter. 69 are

about
lorain, 67 are about lorian, 61 are about loony, 16 are about looney, 14

are
about feminitwit, 2 are about loon, 52 are about how he discredits my
beliefs by saying it's just women's studies, 16 from feminism, and in 77
posts he just refers to me simply as LL. That is over 300. There are
probably more but I got tired of remembering all the names he has called

me.

Most of his posts are not directed at you because you haven't been
posting here regularly except for the past 2 weeks.


I've been posting here for four years. He has been posting here for one
year. I came here for support as a single parent, he came here to harass

me
and Moonshyne and he followed us from alt.child-support to do just that.
That is easy to prove, google tells all.

oh, maybe I'll write a song about it and you can sing and dance to it

while
Paul makes fun of it. LOL!

Really Brianne, this is serious. Think about this. Why do you feel the
need to keep the peace with men who you see continuously harassing other
women?


Deja vu
I've been here before with you
this time I simply don't have the mental faculties or patience to deal with
it anymore.

In a nutshell: Paul and I are fine. You keep feeding Paul opportunities to
pick on you. In fact, when he doesn't You follow HIM around here until he
does by complaining to everyone about him or whoever else YOU deem unfit
according to YOUR standards.

This is YOUR battle. One which you ALWAYS choose to get into when you are
emotionally raw. It's a pattern with you. When you feel horrible
emotionally, instead of ignorning posts that you should IGNORE, you attack.
over and over and over again.

Google me this batgirl: instead of always finding the negative look for the
positive. YOu have YET to post this. Post how often you are told what an
amazing person you are. Post how many times I or anyone else has said that
you have the ability in yourself to succeed at anything. Post how many
times someone has given you GOOD no GREAT advice. Focus you energy on the
positive.

*rant off*

*b


  #136  
Old July 25th 03, 01:15 PM
Paul Fritz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)


"turtledove" wrote in message
om...

wrote in message
. net...
turtledove wrote:

Woah!! I know that you and Paul have issues between each other...but
that doesn't mean that everyone has issues with him.


how you can defend him i do not understand. we keep having this same
argument brianne. how can you be my friend and at the same time defend

a
man who consistently makes fun of my mental illness for god's sake? he
followed me here from alt.child-support to harass me and just like all

the
others who have come here to troll me he has been welcomed by you and

some
other regulars instead of condemned so he stayed and got along with you

but
persisted in his harassment of me. thanks a lot.

And Cele posted once all about how sick Paul Fritz is to mock my mental
disability and how he needed to stop doing that and she thought she had

the
support of the group regulars...

And Paul talks about his daughter here on a regular basis.


really? google.com tells otherwise. Of his 1,160 posts only 128

include
the word daughter and only 89 of those are about HIS daughter. 69 are

about
lorain, 67 are about lorian, 61 are about loony, 16 are about looney, 14

are
about feminitwit, 2 are about loon, 52 are about how he discredits my
beliefs by saying it's just women's studies, 16 from feminism, and in 77
posts he just refers to me simply as LL. That is over 300. There are
probably more but I got tired of remembering all the names he has called

me.

Most of his posts are not directed at you because you haven't been
posting here regularly except for the past 2 weeks.


I've been posting here for four years. He has been posting here for one
year. I came here for support as a single parent, he came here to

harass
me
and Moonshyne and he followed us from alt.child-support to do just that.
That is easy to prove, google tells all.

oh, maybe I'll write a song about it and you can sing and dance to it

while
Paul makes fun of it. LOL!

Really Brianne, this is serious. Think about this. Why do you feel the
need to keep the peace with men who you see continuously harassing other
women?


Deja vu
I've been here before with you
this time I simply don't have the mental faculties or patience to deal

with
it anymore.

In a nutshell: Paul and I are fine. You keep feeding Paul opportunities

to
pick on you. In fact, when he doesn't You follow HIM around here until he
does by complaining to everyone about him or whoever else YOU deem unfit
according to YOUR standards.

This is YOUR battle. One which you ALWAYS choose to get into when you are
emotionally raw. It's a pattern with you. When you feel horrible
emotionally, instead of ignorning posts that you should IGNORE, you

attack.
over and over and over again.

Google me this batgirl: instead of always finding the negative look for

the
positive. YOu have YET to post this. Post how often you are told what an
amazing person you are. Post how many times I or anyone else has said

that
you have the ability in yourself to succeed at anything. Post how many
times someone has given you GOOD no GREAT advice. Focus you energy on the
positive.

*rant off*


Some random thoughts

As usual, looney is off in her own fantasy land. I think I'll do a little
research on google as to how many time other people have told looney just
how ridiculous she is..........I wonder if there is enough bandwidth to post
all the comments from all those people?

I won't waste my time looking up the little amount she posts about her son
in comparison to whining 'abuse' or trying to moderate dicussion.

Seems to me, looney is the abuser and 'stalker' with the amount of googling
she done over me snicker

As for following anyone into here.....first, anybody in the world can
subscribe and post to unmoderated NGs.....second, the parental alienator amy
lynn, aka moonshyne, aka stumpy, INVITED the world to revue her 'parenting'
time agreement or what every it was that hse had posted her......a fact that
looney fails to mention.

Both looney and stumpy have a history of taking things offline, harassing
people at work, posting names and address in NGs (including sex related
ones) filing complaints with police/courts over other
posters........................they are both the true ABUSERS







*b




  #137  
Old July 25th 03, 05:35 PM
CME
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)


wrote in message
. net...
CME wrote:
"Joelle" wrote in message
...
ome psychoes are either really good at faking normal or really do
care so much for me that they are dr. jekyll when they are with me
and mr. hyde to other people or have been mr. hyde at times in the
past and are trying

eally hard not to be when they are with me but after awhile the
undercurrent of danger comes to the surface but by then I'm
entangled.

SIgh. I know I'm just farting in the wind here, but honestly
Lorian, if once or twice you meet some guy who really did "change"
after you got to know him, well, once can happen to anyone, twice,
it's time to start thinking twice, but if this is happening to you
often or "all the time" you really do have to look at yourself.
Most men are not Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde - and if the majority of the
men you are attracted to are, then you have to look at yourself and
why you are drawn to that sort of person. Or you may be expecting
it of them and you see it when it's not there.

Yea I know, I'm being oppressive and blaming the victim. I've
really sort of given up on you - but maybe someone else reading this
who is in the same pattern will think about it and look at what they
can do to change the pattern.


Joelle


From what she's said though, is that that was the past. She isn't
dating anyone for exactly those reasons. And I don't think that
pointing out how one falls into patterns of behaviour is victim
blaming, so hopefully she sees that.

Christine


I did sort of say it in the present tense because after all these years of
abstinence my son got sick of me and last fall told me to go find

somebody.
The first guy I met was a jerk and I found out fairly quickly but the

second
guy was really nice and I really liked him and we got along great for
several months but something wasn't right and although he really seemed to
like me he kept his distance and seemed to have a lot of secrets and just
the more I find out the worse it gets and he's looking like the jackpot of
all psychoes ever and he's really fixated on me. I don't even want to

think
about it. I broke up with him months ago but he doesn't seem to recall
that. When I'm not around he hits on women who look like me. great. But
to see this guy and be with him, you wouldn't know he was any of the

things
I have heard about him. That is what is weird. My past abusers have been
flat out trying to kill me so there was no denial. This guy is more like
Ted Bundy, good looking and clean cut but something ain't right and other
people are telling you that but you just can't believe it but your

instincts
are telling you to get out.


Well maybe that's part of your problem. I know for me, if my instincts are
telling me that something is wrong with a person. I listen. Period. It
seems like you stick around to prove yourself right.


Christine



In psychology it's called cognitive dissonance,
what you see or know and what you feel don't match so you walk around very
confused and it's hard to take action. That and I just don't want to
believe this is happening, I feel trapped again, I don't want to run away
again, this time I have too much to lose. I never had that before.

Whoever
said time heals all wounds was wrong. The YWCA offers a pattern changing
class and every time I try to sign up it's full. I need that damn class.




  #138  
Old July 25th 03, 05:55 PM
Joelle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

I think I'll do a little
research on google as to how many time other people have told looney just
how ridiculous she is.


I just told Lorain she was weird to do this. If you do this, it's weird and
creepy. I think both of you have this weird and creepy thing going on and I
think you both should stop.

Joelle
  #139  
Old July 25th 03, 06:47 PM
Cele
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:37:09 GMT, wrote:

turtledove wrote:

Woah!! I know that you and Paul have issues between each other...but
that doesn't mean that everyone has issues with him.


how you can defend him i do not understand. we keep having this same
argument brianne. how can you be my friend and at the same time defend a
man who consistently makes fun of my mental illness for god's sake? he
followed me here from alt.child-support to harass me and just like all the
others who have come here to troll me he has been welcomed by you and some
other regulars instead of condemned so he stayed and got along with you but
persisted in his harassment of me. thanks a lot.

And Cele posted once all about how sick Paul Fritz is to mock my mental
disability and how he needed to stop doing that and she thought she had the
support of the group regulars...


I posted that I thought, and I continue to think, that it was and is a
moral wrong. I said that I would not respond to posts using that
terminology or displaying that behaviour, which I haven't done,
because I mean and believe what I say.

What I felt at that time WRT the rest of the group, was that quite a
lot of people agreed with me on that point. That is, there were many
who felt that Paul's behaviour in this respect was wrong, and they
objected to it. Many did so visibly.

I think that's still the case. My perception is, rightly or wrongly,
that sometimes people see it as an aberration of his, and so they
ignore it because they like him otherwise and recognize that he's not
likely to change. I agree that he's not likely to change. He's made a
conscious decision to behave in the way that he does and he's
apparently uninterested in examining how it reflects on himself, and
that's of course his own business.

People here are largely being pragmatic, IMO. They recognize that
Paul's behaviour is as it is, and they further recognize that
discussing it and increasing references to it appear consistently to
fan the flames. For months and months when you didn't react, his
references to you at all were much more limited and his abusive
terminology was much less. But as soon as it becomes a topic of
discussion for whatever reason, his behaviour is reinforced and
increases. Pragmatically speaking, the apparent *effective* way to
diminish the unwanted behaviour is to ignore it.

I think most experienced usenet posters have had some occasions on
which they've been verbally mistreated in a pretty big way. The most
foul one in my case was a fellow who attacked me in another echo and
told me variously that my daughter's assault was her own fault simply
because she was 13, or that he didn't believe she'd been assaulted, or
that I was an enabler, or it was my fault she was assaulted, or
whatever. His posts were pretty vicious and uncalled for, and everyone
that mattered in that group recognised this. As soon as he became
abusive and vicious, I ceased posting to him altogether. My attitude
was that when he sank to that level, he was no longer worth my time. I
simply wouldn't dignify his comments with a response. And after awhile
he lost interest and went away. Meanwhile, other posters had no
difficulty recognising where the trouble lay, whether they said so or
not. I knew that.

What led me to that position was that I recognised I could not control
him. I could only control me. If I couldn't make him stop, I would
make me stop. Abusive cycles can only continue if there are at least
two players. I deprived him of that second player by completely
ceasing to respond. Whether you agree with the underpinning need to do
so, it's what works.

It's important to separate 'should' from 'is'. In the ideal world, we
*should* be able to express ourselves freely without abuse, we
*should* be able to trust one another totally and we *should* be able
to expect compassion and just treatment wherever we go. But in this
world, the *is* is very different. Railing against the absence of
those *shoulds* not only doesn't help address the problem, it also
takes energy away from where it's needed, in the world of 'is'.

And Paul talks about his daughter here on a regular basis.


really? google.com tells otherwise. Of his 1,160 posts only 128 include
the word daughter and only 89 of those are about HIS daughter. 69 are about
lorain, 67 are about lorian, 61 are about loony, 16 are about looney, 14 are
about feminitwit, 2 are about loon, 52 are about how he discredits my
beliefs by saying it's just women's studies, 16 from feminism, and in 77
posts he just refers to me simply as LL. That is over 300. There are
probably more but I got tired of remembering all the names he has called me.

Most of his posts are not directed at you because you haven't been
posting here regularly except for the past 2 weeks.


I've been posting here for four years. He has been posting here for one
year. I came here for support as a single parent, he came here to harass me
and Moonshyne and he followed us from alt.child-support to do just that.
That is easy to prove, google tells all.

His introduction to the newsgroup a year ago this month was harassing
messages like:

From: "Paul Fritz"
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:55:49 -0400
Message-ID:

"BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

lorian with her classic "woman's studies " defense. When you cannot refute
the facts resort to this sort of response."

wrote in message
.net...
We try to warn people not to go to alt.child-support because of the sharks
over there ,they are obviously out for blood. Put up a fight, you get

more
blood. Try to leave, they follow the trail of blood. Bloody sharks.


"Nope, just posting the facts......something the like of you cannot
comprehend."

From: "Paul Fritz"
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:12:28 -0400
Message-ID:

"Moonie has been caught in another of her long string of lies So typical of
moonie to feign ignorance

Here is the original post where moonie invited everyone with headers. Her
invite is the second to last response by her She didn't get the nickname
'nasty' for nothing."

snip

It's [the parenting plan] posted to alt.support.single-parents -- you're

welcome to go see for yourself.

and just the other day still is harassing Moonshyne (Amy Lynn) (accusing her
of parental alienation which is pretty serious and routinely done over on
alt.child-support but I had hoped regulars here would not tolerate) with
this post:

Message-ID:
From: "Paul Fritz"
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 06:34:59 -0400

"Nope, but not surpising coming from the parental alienator amy
lynn...........ever the ASSuming ass..."

Paul has been
posting on a daily basis since he's been on here.


not every day, every week though.


Lorian, who care where, how and about what Paul posts? All of the
focus on Paul and his posting habits only serves to draw more
attention to your frustration and anger with him. Given that his style
is a conscious choice, that's probably very gratifying for him. It's
important to realize that.

Everyone with a clue can recognize rude and nasty behaviour when they
see it, whether they acknowledge it aloud or not. You're either
preaching to the choir, or you're telling people who've already
decided not to hear. Think about what your goal is. Is it to stop
Paul? Is it to get a certain response from other people? Is it to take
what's available in the way of support? Really and truly, the best
possible way to proceed, IMO, is to decide what specific goals you
have on this matter. Having done that, you need to think very
carefully about what, in the pragmatic world, is most likely to be
effective in achieving those goals. Probably, it won't have much to do
with feelings, legitimate though they may be. It'll have to do with
action and inaction.

and he flirts with you, take a closer
look at how he treats the women he does not get along with, that is, the
women he chooses to take out his rage on ... is that really acceptable to
you? the dr. jekyll/mr. hyde thing is a serious problem, listen to me!


Paul flirts with damned near everyone. Some buy in, some don't. It's
not your worry how they respond. You can't walk other people's paths
for them. You can only make sure you're walking your own in the
healthiest possible way. Paul *isn't* a serious problem for Brianne,
and it seems like jekyll/hyde men aren't either. Brianne likely has
her *own* things to work out and they're different from yours, as are
mine and everyone else's. She's made an open statement that she
disagrees with his behaviour WRT you. Her position is clear. Beyond
that, what she chooses to do with her time and interactions really has
nothing to do with you at all.

I understand that your feelings are hurt. There's a 'them' and 'us'
thing iin human minds that seems to result in our expecting people to
choose. It's the same mechanism that results in kids feeling really
torn between hostile parents, for example. Even the kids recognise
that human tendency for people to see the world in terms of 'them' and
'us' and to want everyone to choose our own side. It's natural, when
we feel we have to draw up sides because we're in a battle, for us to
want everyone on our own side. But feelings aren't always a good guide
to effective behaviour, as you're well aware. Those hurt feelings can
lead you to say and do things that end up alienating the very people
you had hoped to keep on your side, as it were.

You take offense? Offense? How dare you try to control and
manipulate someone by using that choice of wording. Geez, you sound
like my grandmother when she takes 'offense' of me not going to her
church.


I'm not trying to control you, I'm telling you how I feel when you are
friendly toward people who go out of their way to hurt me every chance they
get for over a year!


Lorian, virtually everyone on the planet does things that are
offensive at one time or another. If all of us chose not to interact
with everyone who behaved badly some of the time, nobody'd talk to
anyone and human society would collapse.

I think everyone recognises that Paul is very hurtful towards you. In
a group like this, I'd say the strong evidence of that is that mob
mentality has *not* engaged, with everyone else chiming in and
actively becoming part of the hurt. The whole white crow syndrome
could easily have kicked in here, and it's a testimony to people's
willingness to think for themselves that it hasn't. In fact, there've
been numerous public statements, at one time, denouncing the targeting
behaviour. I suggest that although that may not feel like enough to
you, it's remarkable that you've got that much support.

Sweetheart.....STOP IT!!! You're having a good day, ENJOY IT! Why
waste so much time on such negativity. Light a candle, burn some
incense, meditate, go outside and look at the stars, listen to some
uplifting music, focus on the GOOD.


I am, but I can't just ignore the train wreck that is this news group
sometimes, LOL!


Yes, you can. You really can. If you recognise in your heart that it's
the best thing to do at times, you can do it.

You know, I'm sitting here musing about you and Joelle. Joelle has
said clearly that she chooses not to post much about her personal life
here because it hurts when people are judgemental or negative or
whatever about her posts of that nature. You're posting some things
that can make you pretty vulnerable even when you *know* that you'll
get those kinds of reactions, and indeed, you find them upsetting.
You're like opposites on that score, you and Joelle.

I suspect the amount of posting one ought to do on one's personal life
is proportional to the amount of harassment one is capable of and
willing to ***completely ignore.***

all said with the utmost love and respect,
*bri


oh, maybe I'll write a song about it and you can sing and dance to it while
Paul makes fun of it. LOL!


That could be taken any of several ways.

Really Brianne, this is serious. Think about this. Why do you feel the
need to keep the peace with men who you see continuously harassing other
women?


Whoa. You have a sample size of one. You don't know what, precisely,
Brianne is feeling. It seems to me that you have quite a lot on your
own plate right now in terms of managing your reactions. It's possibly
not the ideal time to worry about how Brianne manages hers.

My suggestion to you is that when Paul and what's-his-name....Tom??
react to this post with all sorts of snide comments, you ignore it.
It's what I'm likley to do. Forget 'em.

Cele
  #140  
Old July 25th 03, 09:07 PM
Paul Fritz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)


"Joelle" wrote in message
...
I think I'll do a little
research on google as to how many time other people have told looney just
how ridiculous she is.


I just told Lorain she was weird to do this. If you do this, it's weird

and
creepy. I think both of you have this weird and creepy thing going on and

I
think you both should stop.


LOL There are far better things to do with my time........it was just
meant to point out how hypocritical and abusive looney is.



Joelle



 




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