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CPS casewrkrs trained to bluff: 10 helpful family hints CPS intrusions
The Social Worker At Your Door: 10 Helpful Hints
By Christopher J. Klicka, Senior Counsel for the Home School Legal Defense Association More and more frequently, home schoolers are turned in on child abuse hotlines to social service agencies. Families who do not like home schoolers can make an anonymous phone call to the child abuse hotline and fabricate abuse stories about home schoolers. The social worker then has an obligation to investigate. Each state has a different policy for social workers, but generally they want to come into the family's home and speak with the children separately. To allow either of these to occur involves great risk to the family. The home school parent, however, should be very cautious when an individual identifies himself as a social worker. In fact, there are several tips that a family should follow: Always get the business card of the social worker. This way, when you call your attorney or Home School Legal Defense Association, if you are a member, the attorney will be able to contact the social worker on your behalf. If the situation is hostile, HSLDA members should immediately call our office and hand the phone out the door so an HSLDA lawyer can talk to the social worker. We have a 24 hour emergency number. Find out the allegations. Do not fall for the frequently used tactic of the social worker who would tell the unsuspecting victims that they can only give you the allegations after they have come into your home and spoken to your child separately. You generally have the right to know the allegations without allowing them in your home. Never let the social worker in your house without a warrant or court order. All the cases that you have heard about where children are snatched from the home usually involve families waiving their Fourth Amendment right to be free from such searches and seizures by agreeing to allow the social worker to come inside the home. A warrant requires "probable cause" which does not include an anonymous tip or a mere suspicion. This is guaranteed under the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution as interpreted by the courts. (In extremely rare situations, police may enter a home without a warrant if there are exigent circumstances, i.e., police are aware of immediate danger or harm to the child.) However, in some instances, social workers or police threaten to use force to come into a home. If you encounter a situation which escalates to this level, record the conversation if at all possible, but be sure to inform the police officer or social worker that you are doing this. If entry is going to be made under duress you should say and do the following: "I am closing my front door, but it is unlocked. I will not physically prevent you from entering, and I will not physically resist you in any way. But you do not have my permission to enter. If you open my door and enter, you do so without my consent, and I will seek legal action for an illegal entry." Never let the social worker talk to your children alone without a court order. On nearly every other incident concerning our members, HSLDA has been able to keep the social worker away from the children. On a few occasions, social workers have been allowed to talk with children, particularly where severe allegations are involved. In these instances, an attorney, chosen by the parent, has been present. At other times, HSLDA had children stand by the door and greet the social worker, but not be subject to any questioning. Tell the official that you will call back after you speak with your attorney. Call your attorney or HSLDA, if you are a member. Ignore intimidations. Normally, social workers are trained to bluff. They will routinely threaten to acquire a court order, knowing full well that there is no evidence on which to secure an order. In 98 percent of the contacts that HSLDA handles, the threats turn out to be bluffs. However, it is always important to secure an attorney in these matters, since there are occasions where social workers are able to obtain a court order with flimsy evidence. HSLDA members should call our office in such situations. Offer to give the officials the following supporting evidence: a statement from your doctor, after he has examined your children, if the allegations involve some type of physical abuse; references from individuals who can vouch for your being good parents; evidence of the legality of your home school program. If your home school is an issue, HSLDA attorneys routinely assist member families by convincing social workers of this aspect of an investigation. Bring a tape recorder and/or witnesses to any subsequent meeting. Often times HSLDA will arrange a meeting between the social worker and our member family after preparing the parents on what to discuss and what not to discuss. The discussion at the meeting should be limited to the specific allegations and you should avoid telling them about past events beyond what they know. Usually, anonymous tips are all they have to go on, which is not sufficient to take someone to court. What you give them can and will be used against you. Inform your church, and put the investigation on your prayer chain. Over and over again, HSLDA has seen God deliver home schoolers from this scary scenario. Avoid potential situations that could lead to a child welfare investigation. Conduct public relations with your immediate neighbors and acquaintances regarding the legality and success of home schooling. Do not spank children in public. Do not spank someone else's child unless they are close Christian friends. Avoid leaving young children at home alone. In order for a social worker to get a warrant to come and enter a home and interview children separately, he is normally required, by both statute and the U.S. Constitution, to prove that there is some "cause." This is a term that is synonymous with the term "probable cause". "Probable cause" or cause shown is reliable evidence that must be corroborated by other evidence if the tip is anonymous. In other words, an anonymous tip alone and mere suspicion is not enough for a social worker to obtain a warrant. There have been some home-schooled families who have been faced with a warrant even though there was not probable cause. HSLDA has been able to overturn these in court so that the order to enter the home was never carried out. Home School Legal Defense Association is committed to defending every member family who is being investigated by social workers, provided the allegations involve home schooling. In instances when the allegations have nothing to do with home schooling, HSLDA will routinely counsel most member families on how to meet with the social worker and will talk to the social worker to try to resolve the situation. If it cannot be resolved, which it normally can be in most instances by HSLDA's involvement, the family is responsible for hiring their own attorney. HSLDA is beginning to work with states to reform the child welfare laws to guarantee more freedom for parents and better protection for their parental rights. HSLDA will be sending out Alerts to its members in various states where such legislation is drafted and submitted as a bill. For further information on how to deal with social workers, HSLDA recommends Home Schooling: The Right Choice, which was written with the intention of informing home school parents of their rights in order to prevent them from becoming a statistic. Federal statistics have shown that up to 60 percent of children removed from homes, upon later review, should never have been removed. The child welfare system is out of control, and we need to be prepared. To obtain The Right Choice or join the Home School Legal Defense Association, call 540-338-5600, or write HSLDA, P.O. Box 3000, Purcellville, VA 20134. © Site Copyright 1996-2004 Home School Legal Defense Association P.O. Box 3000 · Purcellville, VA 20134-9000 · Phone: (540) 338-5600 · Fax: (540) 338-2733 · E-mail: HOME | SEARCH | FEEDBACK | PRIVACY POLICY | ADVERTISING Supported by the Home School Foundation www.homeschoolfoundation.org http://www.hslda.org DESCRIPTORS; CPS, CHILD PROTECTIVE, DSS, FIA, TDPRS, ACS, CFS, DHS, CYS,CYF, DHR, DHHR, DSHS, DCF, DCS, DCYF, DYFS,DFYS,ACS, ACF, SCF, DCFS, ILDCFS,DFACS, CPS, CPA, DFCS,DHS, DPSS, CSB, CFS,PRS,CYF,DCS,DFS,DHS, SRS |
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CPS casewrkrs trained to bluff: 10 helpful family hints CPS intrusions
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CPS casewrkrs trained to bluff: 10 helpful family hints CPS intrusions
On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:40:25 -0500, Ivan Gowch
wrote: [posted and e-mailed] On 19 Mar 2004 15:25:57 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote: ==The Social Worker At Your Door: 10 Helpful Hints == ==By Christopher J. Klicka, Senior Counsel for the ==Home School Legal Defense Association [snip] ==Do not spank children in public. Exactly. Abuse them in private, like the dirty little secret it is. They know, somewhere in the dim recesses of their compulsive ignorance, that it is very very wrong to hit children. All the things done to them as children compells them not only to do these things, but to cover it up even from themselves. ==Do not spank someone else's child unless they are close Christian friends. What Chris just did was give permission to people to commit assault The law does NOT give others the right to spank, it simply protects PARENTS. For an attorney he seems to leave just a bit, a tad, a smidgeon to be desired. But then following such advice might just result in more cases for attorneys...really high paying ones...assault of a child is a very serious matter, legally. Some church members found that out the hard way. No, not in civil court. In criminal court. What kind of miscreants does this group think it is addressing, people who would even _contemplate_ "spanking" someone else's child? You need to do some research. There is ample. Try a google on Mike Farris, the leader of the pack, combined with Christian Reconstructionism. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...oogl e+Search As for HSLDA and its supposed "homeschool" defense, order up their membership form. Read it. This isn't a legal defense "association," as in you have any guarantee they will defend you. They are very careful to say only in homeschooling matters. It's a powerful multimillion dollar pump into the pockets of the leaders...who are also rabidly ambitious politicians, or at least one is. It helps if you read up. I'll give you a place to start. http://www.hslda.us/represent.htm This outfit is the angry outraged screaming target for decent christians, and homeschoolers not affiliated with them. They no more represent the mainstream homeschooler than there is a real Tooth Fairy. They laid about that, baldfaced, when their OWN membership figures show them to have likely less than a fourth of all homeschoolers as members. Potent, but by far, NOT the majority. They are despised by the mainstream homeschoolers. One of their tactics (after priming their membership to call them when any state homeschooling legislation is coming up) is to show up to "help" the homeschoolers in states where legislation is being considered. They of course claim that "homeschoolers" called and asked for assistance. Pure unadulterated shilling. It's a very powerful political machine, but not based on the work and dedication of real homeschoolers. They break into the carefully developed, decades long, relationship between legislators and the REAL homeschool leaders in that state, and they make political deals with the politicians that winds up diminishing the protections for homeschoolers. I presume so they can post on their website, as I have read a nubmer of times, they THEY saved the day, and that the state homeschool associate was "there to lend assistance" or some other phony balogna BS. We are talking homeschooling leaders with decades of experience and hard work to provide both services for homeschoolers, but skilled political leadership. And note the acknowledgement that it is Christians who can be counted on to beat their children. It certainly reinforces the notion, does it not, that children of Christians are far more likely than children of non-Christians to be beaten and abused (which is why they are far more likely to grow up to be abusers themselves and continue the cycle). This message comes to you from a fundy right organization. Do you really thnk (and remember, I'm an atheist) that the normal Christian community condones CP. Look at the Lawrences website, http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org This represents the thinking and intent of a good many Christians. I'm no more willing to characterize this group as all having the same intent as I would do so for any other group. Is anyone investigating this organization? Big time. And for some time. http://www.gomilpitas.com/homeschool...les/102299.htm If you are looking for a "homeschooling industry" to point out HSLDA would certianly be it. The real homeschoolers come from a very different place politically. They are not interested in "political" power for it's own sake. They are reluctant to ingage in anyway politically on any of the hot issues...abortion, CPS, anti government nonsense. These are mostly folks that simply wish to make a choice about how to educate their children, and they do remarkably well at it...in fact in many instances equalling PS. ==Avoid leaving young children at home alone. "AVOID leaving young children at home alone"?! This organization thinks it needs to advise its members to AVOID leaving young children to their own devices? No, you haven't researched them sufficiently. They speak in code. It's based on their membership recruitment number one fear mongering. It's about CPS coming to talk with their children....pretending that homeschoolers are in any more danger from CPS than other families. This group obviously knows its members are criminally negligent assholes, or astonishingly stupid. No, they just are predominately fundies. And predominately right wing. The two aren't the same, so I discriminate. Some fundy Christians are not rightwing. Though it would likely be rare. Imagine thinking that it's necessary to advise people not to leave young children home alone. I have studied the motives and methods of this organization for decades. Trust me when I say this is just their typical fear mongering. "CPS gonna getcha" That nonsense went away some years ago, and I believe the current activity of the media in reporting so many child deaths, neglect, and abuses by vicious murderers and abusers that CLAIM they are homeschooling is in direct response to this kind of fear mongering. It brings up old ghosts long laid to rest. Homeschoolers, as a demographic, are among the least abusive and neglectful of parents, and in fact are fiercely rejecting of those people that do abuse and claim they "homeschool" when they know that know educational effort is being done at all. I spent considerable time disabusing CPS in many states on the reality of homeschooling and what homeschoolers are about. And especially how they parent. I vacation each year with 50 families from all over the US. Some repeat, some are new. In all the years I've done this I have seen two families that used CP. They were asked to leave, and the program director did so with a refund check in hand and clear explanation that WE homeschoolers do NOT use CP as a rule. I came to my position partly as a result of associating with other homeschoolers. The mainstream homeschooler considers a parent that spanks as having failed. Here's a website that might interest you and help with understanding homeschoolers and the pressure both internally (because homeschooling does something very very special in the relationship between child and parent...that CP does NOT fit into very well...it takes a fundy Christian to overcome this natural love between parent and child) and externally. This is a homily, even corny website, but for all that it's sincerity is evident. http://sandradodd.com/spanking You'll see, though less exposed to our position, they have some of the same arguments we do, with the addition of that very special experience they bring as parents who do so 24/7. Unschooling, if you aren't familiar with the term, is just a subset of homeschooling and quite misunderstood. People think it means no schooling. On the contrary, Unschoolers are the most dedicated of and hardest working of all homeschoolers. When we, I was one, relied on the child to learn, instead of us "teaching" the response was, and still is, overwhelming. There were times I had to go back to college, yep literally, and take courses to keep up with my own kids. In most jurisdictions it's illegal to leave young children home alone -- an offence that, rightly, can get the kids removed from the home and the caregiver(s) slapped with criminal charges. To quote Kelly Bundy, the mind wobbles. The Home School Legal Defense Association is patently aware that its members are not only hopelessly incompetent parents who are, without advice to the contrary, apt to leave young children without supervision, but child abusers who not only beat their own children, but are inclined to beat OTHER people's children as well. They speak in code to excite the fears of homeschoolers to encourage them to take out a $100 a year membership. That's about 80,000 members. Do the math. I've heard of some good get rich schemes, but this one is better than a lottery ticket winning. They are tax exempt, last I checked. I've never seen stronger evidence for the proposition that home-schooling is, for a frightening number of people, an excuse for setting up a refuge where they may abuse and brainwash their children, safe from the prying eyes of their neighbours and other people who value the safety and welfare of society's most vulnerable members. I have had over 40 years of homeschooling experience both as a practitioner, and as a political advocate. I've associated closely with homeschoolers since 1960...when it was pretty much an underground ... well, kinda...activity. And I've seen far more love and concerned parenting in this group than any other demographic I've come in contact with. Abuse is rare. Those that do abuse are not real homeschoolers, just scoflaws. I hope this subversive little screed has come to the attention of authorities, and persuades them that much more intense scrutiny of home-schoolers is required. That is what the aim seems to be. And HSLDA has had a hand in it...YOUR suggestion. They recently were involved in federal legislation to amend laws. Look it up. HONDA, was the acronym. If there was ever a group that need less government oversight than homeschoolers I can't imagine it. Now HSLDA,....there I agree with you, but you'll find they have quite a leg up in Washington. The leader is a failed candidate for governor, but I doubt with no more political ambitions...and who better than the current crop of our leaders. As a start, I would suggest that it may be time to consider arming child-protection officials with permanent, transferrable warrants empowering them to enter any home-schooling venue and examine any child found there for signs of abuse. It would be a waste of money. There is no "home-schooling venue." Just people schooling their children at home, at the local museum, industrial center, dairy, university (yep, they use such settings when their kids need them...and ours spent a good deal of time in just such settings), local skating rink, public swim pools, soccerfields, etc. Homeschoolers are FAR busier than public school parents in the eduation of their children. They simly chose not to live with "testing and assessments," "captivity," "Crowding," and "age grouping." And their children are safe and excelling. I cannot speak for the fundies of course...as I was not part of that crowd. But I can't suggest policing them without policing the majority of homeschoolers. In all my years I've seen only a couple of cases of abuses by homeschoolers, and remember, I was privy as an insider to hear and see a great deal. The home-schooling industry is obviously busy training its members in how to brutalize their children and get away with it. No, the homeschooling industry is no such thing. Not if you mean the majority. HSLDA, well decide for yourself, but understand not only are they not THE homeschooling representatives they claim, and have lied about, but they are a detested minority. If you got inside homeschooling you'd find the same kind of justifiable reaction to HSLDA that we have to spanking compulsives. As I said, detest. Those who care for the welfare of children must counter it by whatever means necessary. Not without a fight, and you'd lose on the facts. Homeschoolers are by and large, NOT child abusers...and in fact have a far lower rate than society in general. If anything THEY SHOULD BE MONITORING THE SCHOOLS WHERE SO MUCH ABUSE DOES TAKE PLACE. Gee, I hope you aren't an NEA member. I could understand your rant on homeschoolers though if you were. They hate us, apparently, and we are polite and even supportive of them...just goes to show yah. I will be forwarding the HSLDA's "10 helpful hints" to the attorney general of every state in the union, so they know just what kind of evil mother****ers lurk in their jurisdictions. Excellent, but I've already contacted the very same folks on The Rod, and there is an association between The Rod and HSLDA affilates. Go to the Lawrences website. Subscribe to their E-mail. They have an ongoing battle with this issue and they have braced HSLDA about it as well. The stars help our children, with these kind of monsters out and about. Don't get carried away. If I had to leave my kids with anyone on the planet to care for them it would be homeschoolers, even Christian ones, over any other group, though I have to admit it most definately would NOT be with any fundies, or members of HSLDA. If they aren't part of the problem they most assuradely are fools, and I won't leave my children with fools. If you'd like to discuss this with me you know where to find me. I'll even provide you some material, at my cost. And no, it's homechooling promotional material. In fact it's authored by those that do NOT think homeschooling is for everyone, and they do NOT recruit or look for money from scaring homeschoolers. And they teach gentle parenting methods. I'll put it this way. Do you think that all families should be subject to intrusion of government agents based on HSLDA? You are asking for that. You just don't see it yet. We'll get that with HSLDA. They are not what they claim or appear to be, on the surface. I think they want to BE the government. Do the research. It's well worth it...and I know the folks who have collected the facts on HSLDA and they are sound and good people. Just met with a group of them a couple of weeks ago. Wanna guess what the major topic was? The destruction of homeschooling by the HSLDA types. The despise them with far more informed reason than you do. But also for some of the same reasons you do. http://www.hslda.us/exclusive.htm On the question of HSLDA exclusivity and divisiveness. http://www.homestead.com/barbooch/WhitePaper2.html Dr. Moore is an especially venerated homeschool leader with about 50 years of educational experience (including much in the public domain). Wait until you see what he has to say. And you might want to follow up with one of if not the preemminate homeschool publications. Home Education Magazine. HEM. Huge, for homeschooling, distribution. This is a complex matter between two groups of homeschoolers, HSLDA affiliated, and non-affiliated. This war between them has gone on for some time. The sad thing is that you and others assume HSLDA represents the mainstream homeschooler. Nothing could be further from the truth. Personally I consider HSLDA as more likely representing the fringe element..as I consider fundy Christians, that we would dearly like to be rid of ..but hey, this is America. We'll just watch them fade out as they faded in. Kane |
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CPS casewrkrs trained to bluff: 10 helpful family hints CPS intrusions
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CPS casewrkrs trained to bluff: 10 helpful family hints CPS intrusions
Kane wrote: On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:40:25 -0500, Ivan Gowch wrote: [posted and e-mailed] On 19 Mar 2004 15:25:57 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote: ==The Social Worker At Your Door: 10 Helpful Hints == ==By Christopher J. Klicka, Senior Counsel for the ==Home School Legal Defense Association [snip] ==Do not spank children in public. Exactly. Abuse them in private, like the dirty little secret it is. They know, somewhere in the dim recesses of their compulsive ignorance, that it is very very wrong to hit children. All the things done to them as children compells them not only to do these things, but to cover it up even from themselves. My great-grandmother lived with me when I was a child. I remember my parents waiting until grandma was asleep, closing the windows, and taking me downstairs in the laundry room with the door closed to muffle my screams. LaVonne |
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CPS casewrkrs trained to bluff: 10 helpful family hints CPSintrusions
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote:
My great-grandmother lived with me when I was a child. I remember my parents waiting until grandma was asleep, closing the windows, and taking me downstairs in the laundry room with the door closed to muffle my screams. LaVonne I feel your pain! ;-) Doan |
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CPS casewrkrs trained to bluff: 10 helpful family hints CPS intrusions
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:29:14 -0800, Doan wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote: My great-grandmother lived with me when I was a child. I remember my parents waiting until grandma was asleep, closing the windows, and taking me downstairs in the laundry room with the door closed to muffle my screams. LaVonne I feel your pain! ;-) Okay, what's it like? Describe it for us. Let's see if you have any capacity for empathy. Doan The spanked child demonstrates the prime trait, the dangerous to humanity trait, that is part of the experience of being spanked: suppression of the capacity for ethics and morals based on empathy...a built in human trait. I can describe, and likely to the tee, what LaVonne was feeling as a child. And while describing it, I can feel some of it myself, as a personal experience..even though I was not there, and I am not her. If you think about what LaVonne described can you actually feel the terror of the child, feel the body sensations of terror, and injury to flesh? Do you think you might be missing an essential human trait? Kane PS, LaVonne, my apologies for using your experience publically. Kane |
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CPS casewrkrs trained to bluff: 10 helpful family hints CPSintrusions
On 22 Mar 2004, Kane wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:29:14 -0800, Doan wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote: My great-grandmother lived with me when I was a child. I remember my parents waiting until grandma was asleep, closing the windows, and taking me downstairs in the laundry room with the door closed to muffle my screams. LaVonne I feel your pain! ;-) Okay, what's it like? Describe it for us. Let's see if you have any capacity for empathy. Can you describe what chocolate taste like to one who never had chocolate? ;-) Doan The spanked child demonstrates the prime trait, the dangerous to humanity trait, that is part of the experience of being spanked: suppression of the capacity for ethics and morals based on empathy...a built in human trait. Are you talking about LaVonne? :-) I can describe, and likely to the tee, what LaVonne was feeling as a child. And while describing it, I can feel some of it myself, as a personal experience..even though I was not there, and I am not her. Then please describe it, "never-spanked" boy! ;-) If you think about what LaVonne described can you actually feel the terror of the child, feel the body sensations of terror, and injury to flesh? Do you think you might be missing an essential human trait? Only if you are a dog or less, Kane3! :-) Doan |
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CPS casewrkrs trained to bluff: 10 helpful family hints CPS
Wow, Lavoone must have really ticked off her Great Grandmother.
Wonder if she still hates her parents? Lavoone was chastized as a young girl: Wonder why? with me when I was a child. I remember my parents waiting until grandma was asleep, closing the windows, and taking me downstairs in the laundry room with the door closed to muffle my screams. My parents never did. And I loved and respected them. Miss them, too. Guess you dislike your folks. |
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CPS casewrkrs trained to bluff: 10 helpful family hints CPS intrusions
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:39:02 -0800, Doan wrote:
On 22 Mar 2004, Kane wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:29:14 -0800, Doan wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote: My great-grandmother lived with me when I was a child. I remember my parents waiting until grandma was asleep, closing the windows, and taking me downstairs in the laundry room with the door closed to muffle my screams. LaVonne I feel your pain! ;-) Okay, what's it like? Describe it for us. Let's see if you have any capacity for empathy. Can you describe what chocolate taste like to one who never had chocolate? ;-) Nope. But then this wasn't a food question. You claimed you could feel her pain. Everyone has felt pain so they do have the knowledge it takes to feel someone else's, unless they lost that capacity in some manner. Doan The spanked child demonstrates the prime trait, the dangerous to humanity trait, that is part of the experience of being spanked: suppression of the capacity for ethics and morals based on empathy...a built in human trait. Are you talking about LaVonne? :-) No, you. Why do you ask? I can describe, and likely to the tee, what LaVonne was feeling as a child. And while describing it, I can feel some of it myself, as a personal experience..even though I was not there, and I am not her. Then please describe it, "never-spanked" boy! ;-) I didn't make the claim originally. You did. Now, as usual, you are dancin' and dodgein'. Your basic ethics impaired through childhood spanking coward. If you think about what LaVonne described can you actually feel the terror of the child, feel the body sensations of terror, and injury to flesh? Do you think you might be missing an essential human trait? Only if you are a dog or less, Kane3! :-) As I said. You are ethics impaired and just demonstrated it again. You appearently feel you have no obligation to follow through when you make claims against another person, even if those are hurtful to that person. And you just used a vicious adhom namecalling when no such attack was made on you. So much for your morals, Doan Thanks for the demo, Droany. Kane |
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