Is this an early miscarriage or should I be worried it's somethingelse?

This post will be TMI, and I will call a doctor, but am out of the
country and with the Christmas holidays, it won't be before Jan 2 and
I'd like some feedback, if anyone can offer some.

DD is now almost 18 months old. I started having periods again at 13
months, in August (still breastfeeding). However I'm not sure if I
ovulated at all as charting has been difficult as DD's sleep patterns
are all over the place and I wake up in the am at inconsistent hours.
The ovulation signs have been inconsistent (we are ttc) - no real CM
to speak of. In November, the week before I should have ovulated DD
got croup, stopped eating and started nursing like she was 3 months
old again! I didn't have many ovulation signs so I think I never did
(one day of CM on day 14, and it was very weak), but I got a period at
day 28 (like I have done since 13 months - it has been
really regular which it never was pre-DD). That was normal 5 days or
so - heavy days 1-2.5, moderate days 2.5-3.5, light 3.5-5. The 5th day
we travelled 20+ hours flight, 7 hour time difference. I stopped
bleeding but on the 8th day I started bleeding again - bright red at
first, then dark. It is now day 13 and I'm still bleeding regularly-
not heavy, more like moderate like I am on the 3rd-4th day of
a regular period. The timing doesn't seem possible for an actual
miscarriage (ttc'd on the potential ovulation day 14, and had sex on
day 4 of the next 'cycle'). No major pain, some cramping like when I
have a period, more annoying than anything (esp as I was in a small
village with no shop and no car and running out of tampons!). I'm kind
of tired of the bleeding by now, and I am also a little concerned. I
have had 2 abnormal paps - first in 1989, all subsequent paps were
normal until 2001 (barely abnormal but enough to flag it), then all
normal again.

Last time I miscarried I was 10+ weeks, so I'm not sure what an early
m/c could be like, but the timing doesn't make a lot of sense. I
couldn't have ovulated on day 4/5 and then m/c a few days later. I
could have ovulated the previous cycle on time, then m/c'd looking
like a regular period except why the break between days 5-8 and the
change in blood (went from light at the end of the 5 days to moderate
when it restarted at 8 days).

Couple of other things - I did start taking vitex to 'boost'
ovulation, (it's an herbal thing, known to be safe and possibly
helpful in encouraging ovulation in BF women) - I had taken it briefly
around 13 months, stopped, and started again at the beginning of this
cycle. Also, DD is still nursing more than she had been prior to the
croup (that was Thanksgiving week), given that I'm with her 24/7 now,
but I'm trying to keep it down to only before bed and naps (she is
waking up 2+ times per night though again).

Thoughts? I'd appreciate any insight. Like I said I will call a doctor
but that'll have to wait a couple of weeks. I don't think it's
critical enough for an ER trip, the bleeding is not heavy, just
consistent and annoying.

I'm not really sure what it could be. I guess it is possible for it to be a
miscarriage, but all of my early ones were not much different than a regular
period -- the bleeding did not last longer than a normal period.

I will say this -- if your periods are coming every 28 days, then you likely
are ovulating, even if you don't see lots of eggwhite or other signs. A
regular period is one sign right there, for the most part. Sometimes
eggwhite is more obvious than others -- (in the TMI section), I've had OBGYN
exams right around ovulation, and although did not seem to be having a lot
of ewcm, my doctor commented on the copious amounts at the cervix.

Since it's only annoying and there is no pain or cramping, I'd do as you
are, and go talk to your doctor when you get back. I guess the only other
thing you could do is take a pg test, just in case. I do know lots of women
who had various bleeding episodes early on in their pgs, so much so that
they were sure they had miscarried, only to find out that all was well. So
perhaps verifying if you are, or are not pregnant, might be a first step.

Good luck.
--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys -- 01/03/03
Addison Grace -- 09/30/04

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"CJRA" wrote in message
...
This post will be TMI, and I will call a doctor, but am out of the
country and with the Christmas holidays, it won't be before Jan 2 and
I'd like some feedback, if anyone can offer some.

DD is now almost 18 months old. I started having periods again at 13
months, in August (still breastfeeding). However I'm not sure if I
ovulated at all as charting has been difficult as DD's sleep patterns
are all over the place and I wake up in the am at inconsistent hours.
The ovulation signs have been inconsistent (we are ttc) - no real CM
to speak of. In November, the week before I should have ovulated DD
got croup, stopped eating and started nursing like she was 3 months
old again! I didn't have many ovulation signs so I think I never did
(one day of CM on day 14, and it was very weak), but I got a period at
day 28 (like I have done since 13 months - it has been
really regular which it never was pre-DD). That was normal 5 days or
so - heavy days 1-2.5, moderate days 2.5-3.5, light 3.5-5. The 5th day
we travelled 20+ hours flight, 7 hour time difference. I stopped
bleeding but on the 8th day I started bleeding again - bright red at
first, then dark. It is now day 13 and I'm still bleeding regularly-
not heavy, more like moderate like I am on the 3rd-4th day of
a regular period. The timing doesn't seem possible for an actual
miscarriage (ttc'd on the potential ovulation day 14, and had sex on
day 4 of the next 'cycle'). No major pain, some cramping like when I
have a period, more annoying than anything (esp as I was in a small
village with no shop and no car and running out of tampons!). I'm kind
of tired of the bleeding by now, and I am also a little concerned. I
have had 2 abnormal paps - first in 1989, all subsequent paps were
normal until 2001 (barely abnormal but enough to flag it), then all
normal again.

Last time I miscarried I was 10+ weeks, so I'm not sure what an early
m/c could be like, but the timing doesn't make a lot of sense. I
couldn't have ovulated on day 4/5 and then m/c a few days later. I
could have ovulated the previous cycle on time, then m/c'd looking
like a regular period except why the break between days 5-8 and the
change in blood (went from light at the end of the 5 days to moderate
when it restarted at 8 days).

Couple of other things - I did start taking vitex to 'boost'
ovulation, (it's an herbal thing, known to be safe and possibly
helpful in encouraging ovulation in BF women) - I had taken it briefly
around 13 months, stopped, and started again at the beginning of this
cycle. Also, DD is still nursing more than she had been prior to the
croup (that was Thanksgiving week), given that I'm with her 24/7 now,
but I'm trying to keep it down to only before bed and naps (she is
waking up 2+ times per night though again).

Thoughts? I'd appreciate any insight. Like I said I will call a doctor
but that'll have to wait a couple of weeks. I don't think it's
critical enough for an ER trip, the bleeding is not heavy, just
consistent and annoying.

CJRA, I think you have nothing to worry about here.

Fertilization (if any) would have occurred only 2-3 weeks prior, so
your period would reflect a failed implantation. It is no different
than a normal period, except if you were testing you might have
detected the pregnancy. That is why it is called a "chemical"
pregnancy.

I can tell you from personal experience that hard traveling and long
jet lag both can make for an atypical period. Not only longer than
usual, but sometimes starting weeks early. You live on the US west
coast, right, and you are in Europe now. And it is the holidays and
you are traveling with small children. What a slog!

So, do get a checkup when you get back from your trip, but in the
meantime try not to worry. Your symptoms are not ordinary but also
not abnormal.

Re TTC, I suggest that you use ovulation test sticks. If nothing
else, they will answer your question re whether or not you are
ovulating. I got nowhere with the usual signs and when I finally
started using the OTs I discovered I was ovulating but not when I was
"supposed" to. Having that information sooner might have saved us
several years of TTC. I really like TCOYF but on this point I think
the book does its readers a disservice. I also took some guaifenesin
(the active ingredient in most expectorant cough syrups) to improve
the quality and quantity of cervical mucus. It was quite effective.
That is a tip mentioned in TCOYF, by the way.

Pologirl

On Dec 21, 2:53 pm, Pologirl wrote:
CJRA, I think you have nothing to worry about here.

Fertilization (if any) would have occurred only 2-3 weeks prior, so
your period would reflect a failed implantation. It is no different
than a normal period, except if you were testing you might have
detected the pregnancy. That is why it is called a "chemical"
pregnancy.

I can tell you from personal experience that hard traveling and long
jet lag both can make for an atypical period. Not only longer than
usual, but sometimes starting weeks early. You live on the US west
coast, right, and you are in Europe now. And it is the holidays and
you are traveling with small children. What a slog!

So, do get a checkup when you get back from your trip, but in the
meantime try not to worry. Your symptoms are not ordinary but also
not abnormal.

Re TTC, I suggest that you use ovulation test sticks. If nothing
else, they will answer your question re whether or not you are
ovulating. I got nowhere with the usual signs and when I finally
started using the OTs I discovered I was ovulating but not when I was
"supposed" to. Having that information sooner might have saved us
several years of TTC. I really like TCOYF but on this point I think
the book does its readers a disservice. I also took some guaifenesin
(the active ingredient in most expectorant cough syrups) to improve
the quality and quantity of cervical mucus. It was quite effective.
That is a tip mentioned in TCOYF, by the way.

Pologirl


Thank you both for the reassruances. The cramping is getting worse
now, but it's still more like period cramping than m/c cramping. I
guess if I had continued bleeding I'd be less worried, as it is I
stopped bleeding for ~3 days then started again. But as you say I was
travelling then (Texas to Swtizerland, 7 hr time difference 20+ hrs
travelling), so maybe that had an effect.

Since I didn't think I was pg anyway, I'm not too bothered if indeed
it is an m/c (I was disappointed when my period started, but accepted
it). My fear is that it's something worse, and I hate not being able
to do anything about it. I may go ahead and shell out the $$$ for a pg
test (they are fare more expensive here than in the US). If that's
positive then at least it gives me an idea of what's going on.

I feel a bit better now. Thanks.

A semi-update,

Last week I took a pg test and it was inconclusive (faint positive but
beyond the time frame). I'm home now, took a pg test today and clearly
positive, but still have had bleeding off and on, that's more than 3
weeks now.

I decided to go into the ER today as I've also had a lot of cramping.
I could probably wait to set up a doctor's visit in a few days, but as
I also have to deal with a broken foot/possibly broken toe, I figured
I might as well go and ask them to look at my HCG levels and maybe do
an u/s as well...

Good luck with it all... I hope its nothing you will need to worry
about. All the best.

-Jen

On Jan 1, 12:18*pm, cjra wrote:
A semi-update,

Last week I took a pg test and it was inconclusive (faint positive but
beyond the time frame). I'm home now, took a pg test today and clearly
positive, but still have had bleeding off and on, that's more than 3
weeks now.

I decided to go into the ER today as I've also had a lot of cramping.
I could probably wait to set up a doctor's visit in a few days, but as
I also have to deal with a broken foot/possibly broken toe, I figured
I might as well go and ask them to look at my HCG levels and maybe do
an u/s as well...

CJRA wrote:
I decided to go into the ER today as I've also had a lot of cramping.

CJRA, I am glad you are consulting a physician but I wish you would
see an OB/GYN. At least have a phone consult with your regular one.
I have been wanting to post a follow up reply to you, re those
cramps. Continuing cramps are far enough outside the ordinary that I
would want them checked out.

Hoping for the best,

Pologirl

On Jan 1, 11:38*am, Pologirl wrote:
CJRA wrote:
I decided to go into the ER today as I've also had a lot of cramping.

CJRA, I am glad you are consulting a physician but I wish you would
see an OB/GYN. *At least have a phone consult with your regular one.
I have been wanting to post a follow up reply to you, re those
cramps. *Continuing cramps are far enough outside the ordinary that I
would want them checked out.

Hoping for the best,

Pologirl

Oh yeah. I will be seeing the GYN on 1/11. I decided on the ER as I
was getting too worried about a possible ectopic for a variety of
reasons and I knew it might take awhile to get in to see the GYN.

So, the u/s showed nothing in the uterus but my HCG levels indicate a
+ pregnancy. I guess that's a chemical pg? So I probably miscarried.
However they did also find a cyst on my ovary, but apparently it's
quite small. Now I've read that a +pg test can result from a cyst,
other places say no. I'll discuss with the doctor. Either way, it's
not ectopic, so that's good.

Still bleeding and cramping and constantly feeling bloated, but
hopefully that will go away soon and we can TTC again.

Oh yeah. I will be seeing the GYN on 1/11. I decided on the ER as I
was getting too worried about a possible ectopic for a variety of
reasons and I knew it might take awhile to get in to see the GYN.

So, the u/s showed nothing in the uterus but my HCG levels indicate a
+ pregnancy. I guess that's a chemical pg? So I probably miscarried.
However they did also find a cyst on my ovary, but apparently it's
quite small. Now I've read that a +pg test can result from a cyst,
other places say no. I'll discuss with the doctor. Either way, it's
not ectopic, so that's good.

Still bleeding and cramping and constantly feeling bloated, but
hopefully that will go away soon and we can TTC again.

I'm not sure you can be sure that you're miscarrying or that it isn't
ectopic. If you look at a flow chart of management for a suspected
ectopic pregnancy, such as http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000215/1080.html
(though I think one of the labels is wrong as it's the same in both
directions at one of the splits), then a single HCG test and nothing
visible on ultrasound doesn't exclude it. If I'm reading things right,
you've had one HCG test and you can only be sure that's an
intrauterine pregnancy, viable or not if a sac is seen, if a sac isn't
seen the minimum follow up is another blood test and even then,
failure for it to double doesn't exclude an ectopic pregnancy and
ongoing management needs to be based on symptoms.

Regarding ovarian cysts, there are definitely some types that can
produce HCG, I suspect an early miscarriage is a much more likely
scenario than a small cyst being the cause of a positive test.

I hope you get this resolved soon.

Cheers
Anne

It could well have been a normal uterine pregnancy that you have already
lost. HCG levels drop at around the same rate they rise, so they half every
24-48 hours so 1000 to 500 in 48 hours 500 to 250 in the next 48 hours etc.
So it's possible this is the tail end of your HCG dropping to zero.

Let us know when you now more. Hugs.

--
Pip, in NZ

My girls :
DD1 Jasmine - 5 weeks early - March 02 - 4lb 12oz
Still as small as a peanut but as smart as a whip!

DD2 Abby - 8 weeks early - Feb 05 - 3lb 14oz
Two and a half and still a terror!!

"Yes you can drive me insane just by talking to me!"

"cjra" wrote in message
...
On Jan 1, 11:38 am, Pologirl wrote:
CJRA wrote:
I decided to go into the ER today as I've also had a lot of cramping.

CJRA, I am glad you are consulting a physician but I wish you would
see an OB/GYN. At least have a phone consult with your regular one.
I have been wanting to post a follow up reply to you, re those
cramps. Continuing cramps are far enough outside the ordinary that I
would want them checked out.

Hoping for the best,

Pologirl

Oh yeah. I will be seeing the GYN on 1/11. I decided on the ER as I
was getting too worried about a possible ectopic for a variety of
reasons and I knew it might take awhile to get in to see the GYN.

So, the u/s showed nothing in the uterus but my HCG levels indicate a
+ pregnancy. I guess that's a chemical pg? So I probably miscarried.
However they did also find a cyst on my ovary, but apparently it's
quite small. Now I've read that a +pg test can result from a cyst,
other places say no. I'll discuss with the doctor. Either way, it's
not ectopic, so that's good.

Still bleeding and cramping and constantly feeling bloated, but
hopefully that will go away soon and we can TTC again.