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  #1  
Old October 1st 03, 06:26 PM
Jodie
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Default Frustrated

DD turned 8 months on Sunday. Problem... she won't sleep! I'm at my
sleep-deprived wits end. I can explain it away, ie. teething, more
mobility, separation anxiety,etc... but rationalizations don't offer
solutions.

Ok, ok... of course she sleeps, but a "normal" night for us goes like
this... nurse to sleep around 8 - 8:30, lay her down in her crib,
sometimes she stays asleep, sometimes not. If she does stay down, she
is back up by 10. As soon as I latch her on, she is passed out,
snoring. I let her comfort suck for a few, then unlatch, she stays
asleep on me, until I put her down, then, wide awake, crying. We go
through the comfort-suck, unlatch, hold her a few minutes, lay her down,
start crying routine 3 or 4 times before she finally settles in her crib
for max 2 hours. This repeats throughout the night. It usually takes
me 45 min - an hour to fall asleep, so, do the math, and you can see why
I'm so frustrated. It's like having a newborn all over again!!

We had settled into a semi-decent sleep pattern a couple of months ago,
where she would be put down awake, drift off to sleep and only wake once
during the night, eat and go back down just fine. But, much to my
dismay, this only lasted about 1-2 weeks.

Co-sleeping is not an option. Mostly, because neither she nor I sleep
very well when we have tried, but also because dh is a very heavy
sleeper and most nights, we have a very heavy sleeping, floppy 5 year
old in bed with us, too.

Her day sleep isn't much better. Rare is the day I can get her to take
a decent nap. Thank goodness I have to make two trips to and from
dd#1's school each day, otherwise, somedays, dd#2 wouldn't sleep at all
(she sometimes dozes off in the car).

I did get the _No Cry Sleep Solution_, it came last week, but I haven't
had a chance to even look at the Table of Contents, let alone start
reading it. And as you can probably tell by my typing, I probably
couldn't read a complete sentence and understand it at this point.

Mostly just a vent, but any suggestions are welcome. My first two slept
through the night at 8 weeks, and unfortunately were ff. NOT going to
go there, and I can not and will not let her cry it out, although,
lately, there have been many nights she and I have both been crying at
each other. Help?!?!?!?

Thanks for reading,
Jodie

  #2  
Old October 1st 03, 07:22 PM
Tine Andersen
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Default Frustrated

"Jodie" skrev i en meddelelse
...
asleep on me, until I put her down, then, wide awake, crying. We go
through the comfort-suck, unlatch, hold her a few minutes, lay her down,
start crying routine 3 or 4 times before she finally settles in her crib


Try holding her a little longer - babies take more than a few minutes to
fall asleep properly.

Tine, Denmark


  #3  
Old October 1st 03, 07:28 PM
Beth Kevles
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Default Frustrated


Hi -

This could be a bad "habit", and you'll need to help her learn to fall
asleep without nursing. (There are various ways to do this, some of
which call for crying it out, some of which don't.)

But it could also be that your baby is uncomfortable. The lack of
daytime napping makes me suspicious ... Have your ped. check her for ear
infection, rashes, etc. Does she have any signs that might indicate
something else going on? Green stools, eczema or other rash, anything?

You might also try some baby painkiller shortly before bed. If she's in
pain, from teething or anything else, that should let her sleep for
several hours.

Good luck,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.
  #4  
Old October 1st 03, 07:57 PM
hobbes
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Default Frustrated


"Jodie" wrote in message
...
DD turned 8 months on Sunday. Problem... she won't sleep! I'm at my
sleep-deprived wits end. I can explain it away, ie. teething, more
mobility, separation anxiety,etc... but rationalizations don't offer
solutions.

Ok, ok... of course she sleeps, but a "normal" night for us goes like
this... nurse to sleep around 8 - 8:30, lay her down in her crib,
sometimes she stays asleep, sometimes not. If she does stay down, she
is back up by 10. As soon as I latch her on, she is passed out,
snoring. I let her comfort suck for a few, then unlatch, she stays
asleep on me, until I put her down, then, wide awake, crying. We go
through the comfort-suck, unlatch, hold her a few minutes, lay her down,
start crying routine 3 or 4 times before she finally settles in her crib
for max 2 hours. This repeats throughout the night. It usually takes
me 45 min - an hour to fall asleep, so, do the math, and you can see why
I'm so frustrated. It's like having a newborn all over again!!


Hmmm. It's really too bad you can't co-sleep. I'm convinced DD would be
exactly the same, except that she's in our bed, so she resettles
easily--sometimes by nursing, but sometimes just by shifting into another
position. And even if she's awake at night, I'm at least lying down, which
is much more restful than sitting up in a chair, or walking the floors. I
gotta say that if I had a heavily sleeping husband and 5 year old in my bed,
DD and I would be sleeping in another bed just ourselves for a while. You
say that neither of you sleep well together either, but I'd consider giving
it another try--you're not getting any sleep this way, anyway! Do you have a
guest bed or something you could try?

I agree with Tine that you should try holding her a longer time until she is
deeply asleep . . . we're talking 10-20 minutes here. She should be
completely limp. That might do the trick, might not.

You could also try playing music or white noise in her room. I remember once
when DH was home for the first time with DS, he couldn't get him to sleep
until he turned a huge window fan on high and sat next to it (not so the
wind was blowing on them). Something about that sound put DS right to sleep.
We have a little sound machine that I use for DD now. You can get them
pretty cheap. I think after a while they start associating sounds (be it a
certain lullaby CD or simply white noise) with sleep and it can make a
difference.

Have you tried a pacifier? It probably wouldn't work; she'd probably wake up
as soon as it would fall out of her mouth, but I'm wondering if she just
needs some comfort sucking.

If you think it's teething, I'd be really tempted to try some ibuprofin
before bed to see if that makes a difference.

Afraid I really don't have any great ideas for you, but wanted to offer some
sympathy.

--
Jodi
SAHM to Oliver (2 years, 7 months) & Arwen (5.5 months)


  #5  
Old October 1st 03, 11:08 PM
Jodie
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Default Frustrated

(webtv isn't very efficient at ccp'ing, so I'm doing a combo-reply,
forgive me)

I will be more aware of her sleep level when I get ready to lay her
down. I have tried lengthening the amount of time that I hold her
before I put her down, but I may be jumping the gun.

I did take her to the ped today to have her checked out. No ear
infection. Diapers have been fine. She does has eczema, and has had
since she was a newborn. Dr gave me some elidel, which we will try
tonight, and I have been using a hydro lotion up till now. FWIW, her
not sleeping doesn't seem to coincide with the flare ups. She has had
this sleeping "schedule" even when the patches were barely visible.

The only other bed option for us is dd#1's twin bed which is very high
off the floor and against the wall. I'm not comfortable sleeping with
dd#2 in that bed. I may just have to get over that, or tell dh and dd#1
to figure out how THEY can be comfortable in it!!

She won't take a paci. Not that I mind, tho. But in the times of
desperation, believe me, I have tried. I'll have to try to find some
white noise and see if that works.

Thanks for all your suggestions. I really appreciate them.

Jodie

  #6  
Old October 2nd 03, 10:28 PM
Larry McMahan
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Default Frustrated

Jodie writes:

: Ok, ok... of course she sleeps, but a "normal" night for us goes like
: this... nurse to sleep around 8 - 8:30, lay her down in her crib,
: sometimes she stays asleep, sometimes not. If she does stay down, she
: is back up by 10. As soon as I latch her on, she is passed out,
: snoring. I let her comfort suck for a few, then unlatch, she stays
: asleep on me, until I put her down, then, wide awake, crying. We go
: through the comfort-suck, unlatch, hold her a few minutes, lay her down,
: start crying routine 3 or 4 times before she finally settles in her crib
: for max 2 hours. This repeats throughout the night. It usually takes
: me 45 min - an hour to fall asleep, so, do the math, and you can see why
: I'm so frustrated. It's like having a newborn all over again!!

OK. Even if you can't co-sleep, maybe you need to set up a sleeping
arrangement for HER so that you can nurse her to sleep, then get up
AFTER she is asleep so that you do not have to move her.

Larry
  #7  
Old October 3rd 03, 09:01 PM
kirsti
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Default Frustrated


Ok, ok... of course she sleeps, but a "normal" night for us goes like
this... nurse to sleep around 8 - 8:30, lay her down in her crib,
sometimes she stays asleep, sometimes not. If she does stay down, she
is back up by 10.


Two things I've noticed with my daughter (now 15 months) which may or
may not work for you...

My whole family are night owls and none of us function well with an
early bedtime. While most people I know put their kids to bed between
7-8 pm, my daughter simply will not go to sleep that early. We put
her to bed around 10:30 and she'll sleep until 7:30 (waking up 1-2
times in between). Maybe a later bedtime would work for you.

Also, my husband and I have found that for daytime naps, our daughter
sleeps longer if she has some sort of physical contact with someone
else. So if we want her to take a long nap in the afternoon, we'll
let her sleep on someone's lap, or set her up in a sling or backpack
that one of us wears. This can often turn a 30 minute nap into one
that lasts 3 hours.

Hope you find an answer that works for you!

kirsti


  #8  
Old October 4th 03, 02:51 AM
Vijay
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Default Frustrated

kirsti wrote in message ...
Ok, ok... of course she sleeps, but a "normal" night for us goes like
this... nurse to sleep around 8 - 8:30, lay her down in her crib,
sometimes she stays asleep, sometimes not. If she does stay down, she
is back up by 10.


Two things I've noticed with my daughter (now 15 months) which may or
may not work for you...

My whole family are night owls and none of us function well with an
early bedtime. While most people I know put their kids to bed between
7-8 pm, my daughter simply will not go to sleep that early. We put
her to bed around 10:30 and she'll sleep until 7:30 (waking up 1-2
times in between). Maybe a later bedtime would work for you.

Also, my husband and I have found that for daytime naps, our daughter
sleeps longer if she has some sort of physical contact with someone
else. So if we want her to take a long nap in the afternoon, we'll
let her sleep on someone's lap, or set her up in a sling or backpack
that one of us wears. This can often turn a 30 minute nap into one
that lasts 3 hours.

Hope you find an answer that works for you!

kirsti


All I can say is I have had the same problems, but my dd is much
younger. Here are the only words of advice I can give:

-is she getting enough stimulation/activity during the day to make her
tired? My dd (granted, only 4 months old) takes FOREVER to fall asleep
if we've had a quiet boring day. Same goes for daytime naps. If I say
"she should be due for a nap now" by looking at the clock, we have a
long struggle. If I move her from stimulating activity to calming
activity (alternating) until I'm certain she's tired (whining, hands
trembling slightly, yawning, rubbing eyes etc.) then she goes for a
good hour or two. It's hard work, both coming up with stimulating
games and calming ones and also reading her cues, but it's paid off
because after 3 months of tearful struggles, I can now usually get her
to stay down on the first try after 5-10 minutes of rocking (swaddled
with pacifier). This is a real high-needs baby mind you, who used to
pop up every time we put her down. It's hard also because there are
times when it would be great for me if she would take a nap because
either I need a nap or a shower or just a break from her, but she
doesn't care what's convenient for me. Trying to get her to take a nap
when *I* want her to is an exercise in futility. She has to be totally
exhausted.

-are you drinking coffee or tea during the day? If so, maybe cut down
by 1/2 your consumption and see if you notice a change?

-Have you tried Mylicon drops? Even if she doesn't seem gassy, maybe
she is. I'm not sure if these work or not but some people say yes. I'm
not into giving babies lots of meds, but maybe it might help. Or gripe
water? Again, never tried it, but some people say it changed
everything for them.

-Baby Advil? Maybe teething is the cause.

-is there a "cool down" period of at least an hour before you start
your bedtime routine? (Bath, quiet singing, rocking, etc.) My dd
sometimes needs to relax in a quiet dim room for an hour or so before
we try to get her to sleep or she just stares up at us like, "What?"
Even if this means starting this cooldown process at the time when you
normally start trying to get her to sleep and getting her to actually
sleep an hour later, it might help you put her down the first time and
she might stay down longer. Then as you develop a pattern you can
sneak the time up 15 minutes every night until you're putting her down
when you want.

-have you tried swaddling? It makes the moment when you take your arms
away less dramatic for them if they are still snug in a blanket.

-I've never tried this, but some people swear by the heating pad in
the crib trick. Placing it in a while before bedtime and removing it
just before you put baby in. This is really for newborns, but whatever
helps them might help an older baby, you never know.

-A "lovey" object, a blanket or t-shirt that smells like mom to cling
to? Again, never tried it, but some people swear by it. My dd (under
her swaddle) clutches handfuls of her pyjamas, so maybe there's
something to it.

-routine: do you do the same things every time? For some reason I
started doing some little tricks that she now expects and it helps the
sequence be predictable for her. For example, as I'm rocking her, I
started turning dd's face toward my body to keep one eye closed --
makes it twice as hard for her to keep the other eye open. Now when
she's getting ready to drift off, she turns her head toward me
spontaneously, just because I did it for her so many times in exactly
the same way. Same with the pacifier. I never put her down with it in,
I always wait until I think she's alseep in my arms to remove it. If
she roots around for it I put it back and try again in a few minutes.
Lately she's taken to spitting it out herself when she's done. I rock
her a few minutes more and then put her down.

I don't know if any of this will help, but I had to share whatever
tricks I could because I know how you feel. It's so frustrating. Hang
in there, I hope things improve!

-V.
  #9  
Old October 4th 03, 05:07 PM
Jodie
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Default Frustrated - Update

Thank you, everyone, for the suggestions, tricks, and especially the
words of encouragement.

Last night, I actually got 6 hours of straight sleep!! It couldn't have
come at a better time. One more night like we have been having and I
surely would have had a breakdown. I was beginning to get very edgy
with poor dh and the other two kiddos, I'm sure they would have locked
me in a closet or something more drastic.

I think the latest culprit was her teeth. I knew she was teething, it
just seemed the "usual" remedies were futile. Thursday, her top left
came in and Friday the right. So, I'm sure that had a lot to do with
it.

Last night, she went down at 8:00, was back up at 8:45, ate on one side
then promptly passed out until 5 this morning. She got up then, ate one
side, then slept until 8 am. (DS was sick last night, or else I would
have gotten more sleep, but I'm NOT complaining, mind you!!)

This is certainly a schedule I can live with. Matter of fact, seems
like a dream schedule, if only it will continue this way. I'm not going
to expect it to, though, that way, if/when it does, I will be pleasantly
surprised.

Again, I really appreciate all of your suggestions and support. I
certainly used many of the ideas and the others, I definitely filed away
for future use. You'd think I might know a little bit about raisin'
these babies, since she is my third :-P

Jodie
(who feels amazingly refreshed and ready to deal with the laundry and
dishes and dustbunnies that have been piling up for the last
week...Anyone wanna help?)

  #10  
Old October 6th 03, 11:16 AM
azure
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Default Frustrated - Update

good news!! a little sleep makes all the difference doesn't it!?

"Jodie" wrote in message
...
Thank you, everyone, for the suggestions, tricks, and especially the
words of encouragement.

Last night, I actually got 6 hours of straight sleep!! It couldn't have
come at a better time. One more night like we have been having and I
surely would have had a breakdown. I was beginning to get very edgy
with poor dh and the other two kiddos, I'm sure they would have locked
me in a closet or something more drastic.

I think the latest culprit was her teeth. I knew she was teething, it
just seemed the "usual" remedies were futile. Thursday, her top left
came in and Friday the right. So, I'm sure that had a lot to do with
it.

Last night, she went down at 8:00, was back up at 8:45, ate on one side
then promptly passed out until 5 this morning. She got up then, ate one
side, then slept until 8 am. (DS was sick last night, or else I would
have gotten more sleep, but I'm NOT complaining, mind you!!)

This is certainly a schedule I can live with. Matter of fact, seems
like a dream schedule, if only it will continue this way. I'm not going
to expect it to, though, that way, if/when it does, I will be pleasantly
surprised.

Again, I really appreciate all of your suggestions and support. I
certainly used many of the ideas and the others, I definitely filed away
for future use. You'd think I might know a little bit about raisin'
these babies, since she is my third :-P

Jodie
(who feels amazingly refreshed and ready to deal with the laundry and
dishes and dustbunnies that have been piling up for the last
week...Anyone wanna help?)



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