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frothy poops related to diet or not?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 29th 06, 06:00 AM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
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Default frothy poops related to diet or not?

DD is almost 6 months and initially her poops were once every 2 days,
mustardy and a solidish consistancy. Then almost 3 months ago she had to go
on antibiotics and instantly she started pooping frothy green liquid,
several times a day. I didn't worry initially as I know antibiotics can
affect the system, but after a few weeks with no change I took her back to
the doctor. He said she had probably picked up a gastro bug, but as she was
still happy and gaining weight not to worry, she would get over it. It
didn't seem right to me for it to be going that long and after talking to a
few people I thought perhaps the antibiotics had created an imbalance in her
tummy and she had developed an intolerance to something I'm eating. As I
haven't changed my diet in months and am already dairy free which I know is
a common intolerance I decided last weekend to go on an elimination diet.
The first day was no difference but on the second day she only pooped once
which was a better colour and thicker (yay). And again on the third day,
there seemed an improvement, but yesterday and today it seems to have gone
runnier again, and greener again and several times throughout the day. So
was it just a coincidence that she had a couple of good days, and my diet is
doing nothing, or is it taking a while to go out of my system whatever it
is? If this diet is going to help her then I'll stick with it, but I'm not
meant to be adding things yet, still on the bland basics, so if it's
pointless I don't want to waste my time (as I'm already VERY bored with it).
I guess the other thing to consider is that I'm probably going to start her
on solids within the next couple of weeks, which I know will have some sort
of affect anyway. But I am hoping to continue to breastfeed her for at
least another year, so I don't want to be eating something which affects
her - although of course she might grow out of it by that time, whatever it
is.
Thoughts and suggestions??
She is breastfed on demand, and feeds every couple of hours in general, give
or take, and I'm careful to give her the same side a few times in a row if I
don't think she's had much to make sure she's getting the richer milk. She
used to sleep through for about 6-8 hours, but about a week before all this
happened she suddenley decided she needed to feed throughout the night every
few hours as well. Don't think it's connected, but thought I'd add it just
in case anyone had any bright ideas.
Thanks



  #2  
Old June 29th 06, 06:26 AM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
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Default frothy poops related to diet or not?

I've been told that frothy poop was due to a lactose intolerance by a
nurse with my second. I don't know if that is 100% true - I never
researched it and just took her word for it, but my second was only
breastfed for a short time and then formula fed and switching formulas
did the trick for her. You mentioned you were dairy free, but what
about lactose free? I know breastmilk is chock full of lactose. lol. I
was also told that green just meant things were moving quicker through
the system or due to a bug.


Linda wrote:
DD is almost 6 months and initially her poops were once every 2 days,
mustardy and a solidish consistancy. Then almost 3 months ago she had to go
on antibiotics and instantly she started pooping frothy green liquid,
several times a day. I didn't worry initially as I know antibiotics can
affect the system, but after a few weeks with no change I took her back to
the doctor. He said she had probably picked up a gastro bug, but as she was
still happy and gaining weight not to worry, she would get over it. It
didn't seem right to me for it to be going that long and after talking to a
few people I thought perhaps the antibiotics had created an imbalance in her
tummy and she had developed an intolerance to something I'm eating. As I
haven't changed my diet in months and am already dairy free which I know is
a common intolerance I decided last weekend to go on an elimination diet.
The first day was no difference but on the second day she only pooped once
which was a better colour and thicker (yay). And again on the third day,
there seemed an improvement, but yesterday and today it seems to have gone
runnier again, and greener again and several times throughout the day. So
was it just a coincidence that she had a couple of good days, and my diet is
doing nothing, or is it taking a while to go out of my system whatever it
is? If this diet is going to help her then I'll stick with it, but I'm not
meant to be adding things yet, still on the bland basics, so if it's
pointless I don't want to waste my time (as I'm already VERY bored with it).
I guess the other thing to consider is that I'm probably going to start her
on solids within the next couple of weeks, which I know will have some sort
of affect anyway. But I am hoping to continue to breastfeed her for at
least another year, so I don't want to be eating something which affects
her - although of course she might grow out of it by that time, whatever it
is.
Thoughts and suggestions??
She is breastfed on demand, and feeds every couple of hours in general, give
or take, and I'm careful to give her the same side a few times in a row if I
don't think she's had much to make sure she's getting the richer milk. She
used to sleep through for about 6-8 hours, but about a week before all this
happened she suddenley decided she needed to feed throughout the night every
few hours as well. Don't think it's connected, but thought I'd add it just
in case anyone had any bright ideas.
Thanks


  #3  
Old June 29th 06, 07:10 AM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default frothy poops related to diet or not?


wrote in message
oups.com...
I've been told that frothy poop was due to a lactose intolerance by a
nurse with my second. I don't know if that is 100% true - I never
researched it and just took her word for it, but my second was only
breastfed for a short time and then formula fed and switching formulas
did the trick for her. You mentioned you were dairy free, but what
about lactose free?


Hi, hmm, not sure, what else do you find lactose in besides milk?
Just did a search for lactose and found the following:

"Primary (or true) lactose intolerance is an extremely rare genetic
condition and is incompatible with normal life without medical intervention.
A truly lactose intolerant baby would fail to thrive from birth (ie not even
start to gain weight), and show obvious symptoms of malabsorption and
dehydration - a medical emergency case needing a special diet from soon
after birth.
Anything that damages the gut lining, even subtly, can cause secondary
lactose intolerance. The enzyme lactase is produced in the very tips of
folds of the intestine, and anything that causes damage to the gut may wipe
off these tips and reduce the enzyme production, for example

a.. gastroenteritis
b.. food intolerance or allergy (In breastfed babies, this can come from
food proteins, such as cow's milk, soy or egg, in the mother's milk
originating in her diet, as well as from food the baby has eaten.)
c.. coeliac disease (intolerance to the gluten in wheat products)
d.. following bowel surgery


Note that cow's milk protein allergy (or intolerance) is often confused with
lactose intolerance, and they are thought by many people to be the same
thing. This confusion probably arises because cow's milk protein and lactose
are both in the same food, ie dairy products. Also contributing to this
confusion is the fact that allergy or intolerance to this protein can be a
cause of secondary lactose intolerance, so they may be present together.



Secondary lactose intolerance is a temporary state as long as the gut damage
can heal. When the cause of the damage to the gut is removed, for example
the food to which a baby is allergic is taken out of the diet, the gut will
heal even if the baby is still fed breastmilk.

Occasionally it is considered preferable to speed up the healing, and reduce
the immediate symptoms, by reducing the amount of lactose in the diet for a
time, particularly if the baby has been losing weight. In this case, it is
possible to alternate breastfeeding and feeding with a lactose-free infant
formula, or it may sometimes be necessary to temporarily wean onto a
lactose-free infant formula. In the case of a baby recovering from severe
gastroenteritis, average recovery time for the gut is four weeks, but may be
up to eight weeks for a young baby under three months. For older babies,
over about 18 months, recovery may be as rapid as one week. Breastmilk can
be tried weekly to see if the baby has recovered, or it could be gradually
introduced"

http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/lactose.html

This would suggest DD has a secondary lactose intolerance, possibly caused
when she had the antibiotics, and then aggrivated from soy milk, which I
have. I actually wondered about soy before and stopped that about a week
before I started the elimination diet, so I've effectively been soy free for
almost 2 weeks, so maybe that would make sense that it's starting to come
out of her system and get back to normal. If this is the case I could stop
the elimination diet and just go back to normal, minus soy - or is that
jumping too quickly?



I know breastmilk is chock full of lactose. lol. I
was also told that green just meant things were moving quicker through
the system or due to a bug.


Which is probably why the doctor said she had gastro, but surely that would
be gone by now - months ago.


  #4  
Old June 29th 06, 12:15 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default frothy poops related to diet or not?


Hi --

The post about primary vs. secondary lactose intolerance was excellent.
Cheers to the poster!

I'd consider staying on the elimination diet for a bit. Be SURE to keep
a food diary while you're doing it. What foods are you eliminating, and
how many at once? I'd probably start with soy alone since about 1/3 of
babies who are milk-protein intolerance are also soy-intolerant. I'd
also go back to my ped. and not accept any simplistic answers.

Good luck,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.
  #5  
Old June 29th 06, 01:25 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default frothy poops related to diet or not?


"Beth Kevles" wrote in message
...

Hi --

The post about primary vs. secondary lactose intolerance was excellent.
Cheers to the poster!

I'd consider staying on the elimination diet for a bit. Be SURE to keep
a food diary while you're doing it. What foods are you eliminating, and
how many at once? I'd probably start with soy alone since about 1/3 of
babies who are milk-protein intolerance are also soy-intolerant. I'd
also go back to my ped. and not accept any simplistic answers.

Good luck,
--Beth Kevles


Hi, I'm doing this elimination diet as follows - currently eating non
allergenic bland veges - potatoes, squash etc, one meat - lamb, one grain -
rice etc, salt and pepper, and also taking a calcium supplement to make sure
I'm still getting some. (Made rice flour vege pasties tonight) Then in
theory I'd be gradually adding other foods till I notice one which has a
different effect. But since I'm thinking it's soy I;m tempted to go back to
normal eating and just leave that out.
Her poops were much better this evening though so I don't want to quit
because I can't be bothered if I really shouldn't.



  #6  
Old June 29th 06, 04:30 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default frothy poops related to diet or not?

Good for you for looking that up. I never really had the need to. I
work for doctors and I hear "lactose intolerance" all of the time. I
have never had the need to research it though. I just thought I would
put that out there as a possibility since that pediatric nurse
mentioned the frothy in relation to lactose intolerance (never got into
whether or not it was true lactose intolerance, etc.). Anyway, I would
ask my ped too about that. I don't know what all has lactose in it. I
believe ice cream is one. lol. Also, it has also been shared with me
that it can take up to four or five weeks, or something like that,
before all traces of dairy are out of mom's system, so you may need to
wait longer if you have only been dairy-free for two weeks (wasn't sure
if the dairy elimination fell into that timeframe you listed for the
bland diet or not).
Linda wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
I've been told that frothy poop was due to a lactose intolerance by a
nurse with my second. I don't know if that is 100% true - I never
researched it and just took her word for it, but my second was only
breastfed for a short time and then formula fed and switching formulas
did the trick for her. You mentioned you were dairy free, but what
about lactose free?


Hi, hmm, not sure, what else do you find lactose in besides milk?
Just did a search for lactose and found the following:

"Primary (or true) lactose intolerance is an extremely rare genetic
condition and is incompatible with normal life without medical intervention.
A truly lactose intolerant baby would fail to thrive from birth (ie not even
start to gain weight), and show obvious symptoms of malabsorption and
dehydration - a medical emergency case needing a special diet from soon
after birth.
Anything that damages the gut lining, even subtly, can cause secondary
lactose intolerance. The enzyme lactase is produced in the very tips of
folds of the intestine, and anything that causes damage to the gut may wipe
off these tips and reduce the enzyme production, for example

a.. gastroenteritis
b.. food intolerance or allergy (In breastfed babies, this can come from
food proteins, such as cow's milk, soy or egg, in the mother's milk
originating in her diet, as well as from food the baby has eaten.)
c.. coeliac disease (intolerance to the gluten in wheat products)
d.. following bowel surgery


Note that cow's milk protein allergy (or intolerance) is often confused with
lactose intolerance, and they are thought by many people to be the same
thing. This confusion probably arises because cow's milk protein and lactose
are both in the same food, ie dairy products. Also contributing to this
confusion is the fact that allergy or intolerance to this protein can be a
cause of secondary lactose intolerance, so they may be present together.



Secondary lactose intolerance is a temporary state as long as the gut damage
can heal. When the cause of the damage to the gut is removed, for example
the food to which a baby is allergic is taken out of the diet, the gut will
heal even if the baby is still fed breastmilk.

Occasionally it is considered preferable to speed up the healing, and reduce
the immediate symptoms, by reducing the amount of lactose in the diet for a
time, particularly if the baby has been losing weight. In this case, it is
possible to alternate breastfeeding and feeding with a lactose-free infant
formula, or it may sometimes be necessary to temporarily wean onto a
lactose-free infant formula. In the case of a baby recovering from severe
gastroenteritis, average recovery time for the gut is four weeks, but may be
up to eight weeks for a young baby under three months. For older babies,
over about 18 months, recovery may be as rapid as one week. Breastmilk can
be tried weekly to see if the baby has recovered, or it could be gradually
introduced"

http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/lactose.html

This would suggest DD has a secondary lactose intolerance, possibly caused
when she had the antibiotics, and then aggrivated from soy milk, which I
have. I actually wondered about soy before and stopped that about a week
before I started the elimination diet, so I've effectively been soy free for
almost 2 weeks, so maybe that would make sense that it's starting to come
out of her system and get back to normal. If this is the case I could stop
the elimination diet and just go back to normal, minus soy - or is that
jumping too quickly?



I know breastmilk is chock full of lactose. lol. I
was also told that green just meant things were moving quicker through
the system or due to a bug.


Which is probably why the doctor said she had gastro, but surely that would
be gone by now - months ago.


  #8  
Old June 30th 06, 04:30 AM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default frothy poops related to diet or not?


wrote in message
ups.com...
Good for you for looking that up. I never really had the need to. I
work for doctors and I hear "lactose intolerance" all of the time. I
have never had the need to research it though. I just thought I would
put that out there as a possibility since that pediatric nurse
mentioned the frothy in relation to lactose intolerance (never got into
whether or not it was true lactose intolerance, etc.). Anyway, I would
ask my ped too about that. I don't know what all has lactose in it. I
believe ice cream is one. lol. Also, it has also been shared with me
that it can take up to four or five weeks, or something like that,
before all traces of dairy are out of mom's system, so you may need to
wait longer if you have only been dairy-free for two weeks (wasn't sure
if the dairy elimination fell into that timeframe you listed for the
bland diet or not).


Hi, sorry didn't really make it clear - have been dairy free for about 4
years since we discovered DH doesn't digest milk well, so we both went off
it and now I don't like the taste. So I don't think that would be a
factor - although I do (normally, obviously not atm) have chocolate. I
think it's soy thats the problem, so I think I'll continue on the diet but
just start adding things now.


  #9  
Old June 30th 06, 12:14 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default frothy poops related to diet or not?


Hi --

Just for the record (for lurkers to this conversation), lactose is a
milk sugar, and is the same across all mammalian milks. Since human
milk contains lactose, it makes no difference how much lactose the
mother consumes; her milk will contain lactose. Milk protein is another
component of milk and comes in several varieties. Cow's milk protein is
NOT the same as human milk protein, nor is goat's milk protein the same
as either cow's or human's, etc. And the milk protein DOES migrate from
mom's digestive tract to her milk output. This is why some mom's have
to stop drinking cow's milk while they're nursing. (Many babies are
intolerant of non-human milk protein.)

I hope this clarifies matters. Many people -- even some doctors --
confuse the issues of lactose intolerance with those of milk protein
intolerance/allergy.

--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.
  #10  
Old July 1st 06, 04:22 AM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default frothy poops related to diet or not?

"Linda" wrote and I snipped:

Hi, sorry didn't really make it clear - have been dairy free for about 4
years since we discovered DH doesn't digest milk well, so we both went off
it and now I don't like the taste. So I don't think that would be a
factor - although I do (normally, obviously not atm) have chocolate. I
think it's soy thats the problem, so I think I'll continue on the diet but
just start adding things now.


If your baby is reacting to cow's milk protein coming through your
breastmilk, there are a lot of ingredients you must watch for. It's not as
simple as avoiding milk, cheese, and ice cream. Check out Beth Kevles' web
site from her sig.

-Patty, mom of 1+2


 




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