Elimination of mercury

Bryan Heit wrote:
Mark Probert wrote:
Bryan Heit wrote:
Jan Drew wrote:

FDA-approved and widely accepted treatment for heavy-metal poisoning.

Dr. Garry Gordon, the "Father" of chelation therapy
http://www.oralchelation.com/LifeGlo...hnical/p51.htm


Not any more, and was never common for mercury as it doesn't work
with mercury toxicity.

Got proof? It seems to be that the AltNuts take it as gospel that it
is the cats meow when it comes to curing autism.

Like they'd pay attention to any proof. But since I know you're
probably interested I'll dig up a bit.

Probably the biggest proof is the lack thereof - if you search clinical
trials for "mercury + edta" you get one study, which looked at lead (not
too sure why that pops up). If you look for general scientific articles
on mercury chelation you get papers like the following:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ubmed_docsu m

Although mercury chelators (DMPS and DMSA) can enhance removal of
elemental mercury, they are unnecessary as our bodies get rid of it
pretty fast on their own.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ubmed_docsu m

Great review of the current chelators used to remove heavy metals.
You'll note that EDTA is not used for mercury toxicity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ubmed_docs um

Comparison of derivatives of a common mercury chelator DMSA. Shows that
these isomers have different properties in terms of their binding to
mercury and cadmium. Basically shows that DMSA and its isoforms are far
better then EDTA at chealting both mercury and cadmium, and that this
occurs over a broad range of pH.

http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/picrend...7&blobtype=pdf
This article gives a good overview of different heavy-metal treatments.
You'll note that EDTA is not used for mercury toxicity, and is being
replaced by other chelators for treatment of other heavy metal toxicities.

Bryan

Thanks.

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
Mark Probert wrote:
Bryan Heit wrote:
Jan Drew wrote:

FDA-approved and widely accepted treatment for heavy-metal poisoning.

Dr. Garry Gordon, the "Father" of chelation therapy
http://www.oralchelation.com/LifeGlo...hnical/p51.htm


Not any more, and was never common for mercury as it doesn't work with
mercury toxicity.

Got proof? It seems to be that the AltNuts take it as gospel that it is
the cats meow when it comes to curing autism.

Like they'd pay attention to any proof. But since I know you're probably
interested I'll dig up a bit.

That's very funny. Want me to post a list of the claims Mark has never
proven?

Probably the biggest proof is the lack thereof - if you search clinical
trials for "mercury + edta" you get one study, which looked at lead (not
too sure why that pops up). If you look for general scientific articles
on mercury chelation you get papers like the following:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ubmed_docsu m
Although mercury chelators (DMPS and DMSA) can enhance removal of
elemental mercury, they are unnecessary as our bodies get rid of it pretty
fast on their own.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ubmed_docsu m
Great review of the current chelators used to remove heavy metals. You'll
note that EDTA is not used for mercury toxicity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ubmed_docs um
Comparison of derivatives of a common mercury chelator DMSA. Shows that
these isomers have different properties in terms of their binding to
mercury and cadmium. Basically shows that DMSA and its isoforms are far
better then EDTA at chealting both mercury and cadmium, and that this
occurs over a broad range of pH.

http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/picrend...7&blobtype=pdf
This article gives a good overview of different heavy-metal treatments.
You'll note that EDTA is not used for mercury toxicity, and is being
replaced by other chelators for treatment of other heavy metal toxicities.

Bryan


American Journal of Advancement of Medicine, and administers a "board
certification" program that is not recognized by the scientific community.

A vast majority of people do not come into significant contact with toxic
heavy metals.

http://www.ncjournalforwomen.com/mon...y04pittman.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ehponline.org/docs/1995/1...ingreport.html

Chelation of Mercury
Another objective of the conference was to review the effectiveness of drugs
for removal of mercury. The two chelating agents that have been most studied
for removal of mercury are DMSA and a related drug,
2,3-dimercapto-1-propanesulfonic acid, (DMPS, dimaval) (22). DMSA and DMPS
are chemical analogs of BAL (dimercaprol) and can be administered orally.
However, the two drugs are biotransformed differently in humans. More than
90% of DMSA excreted in urine of humans is in the form of a mixed disulfide
in which each of the sulfur atoms of DMSA is in disulfide linkage with a
cysteine molecule. After DMPS administration, however, acyclic and cyclic
disulfides of DMPS are the major metabolites in the urine (23,24). Both DMSA
and DMPS increase the urinary excretion of mercury.

Animal studies have shown that DMPS exhibits some organ specificity in the
chelation of mercury (25,26). In rats exposed to mercuric chloride or
mercury vapor, administration of DMPS increased urinary excretion of mercury
and decreased renal mercury content. The increase in urinary excretion was
directly proportional to the renal burden of mercury in rats injected with
mercuric chloride or exposed to mercury vapor. Thus, DMPS may be of
potential use to measure the renal burden of lead and mercury.

About two-thirds of the mercury excreted in persons with mercury-containing
dental amalgams appears to be derived from mercury vapor released earlier
from their amalgams, and a highly significant positive correlation has been
found between numbers and sizes of amalgam fillings and urinary mercury
excretion following DMPS administration (27).

==

Cue cathyb to follow this post with her english-did you have a point- you
are not making sense.

Jan Drew wrote:
American Journal of Advancement of Medicine, and administers a "board
certification" program that is not recognized by the scientific community.

A vast majority of people do not come into significant contact with toxic
heavy metals.

Point being? On another note, you didn't look too closely at your links
before you posted them, did you?


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

Shows that the use of EDTA/EGTA for mercury chelation may actually make
the mercury MORE toxic, and expands the number of proteins in the body
mercury can damage.

They even go so far as to say "Given the ubiquity of Hg2+ in the
environment and the widespread use of EDTA in foodstuffs and medicine,
these mercury complexes may pose a potentially serious threat to human
health and play a role in diseases of the neuronal cytoskeleton."

Not exactly rousing support for the use of chelation therapy...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand, as it doesn't relate to chelation
therapy, EDTA/EGTA, or treatment of other heavy metal toxicities. The
scientific/medical world is well aware of the potential risk of mercury
fillings; I'm not sure why you seem to think otherwise...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

A study showing that DMPS is an excellent drug to use for the removal of
mercury. Once again showing that "chelation therapy" that you and your
ilk promote is crap. There are far better, and safer drugs out there
for mercury toxicity.


http://www.ehponline.org/docs/1995/1...ingreport.html

Report showing that EDTA/EGTA isn't used for mercury poisoning
treatment, and questions the usefulness and safety of using chelating
agents for mercury treatment.

So how exactly do these reports show that the chelation therapy your
promote, as in using EDTA/EGTA, is in any way beneficial? You've got
papers showing that the use of EDTA/EGTA may enhance mercury toxicity,
papers showing that other drugs work far, far better, and then some
irrelevant links. Not exactly stunning support of the chelation therapy
you like to promote.

Bryan

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
Jan Drew wrote:

Incorrect.

"Jan Drew" wrote in message
m...

American Journal of Advancement of Medicine, and administers a "board
certification" program that is not recognized by the scientific
community.

A vast majority of people do not come into significant contact with toxic
heavy metals.

Point being?

Simple-it is a falsehood.

On another note, you didn't look too closely at your links
before you posted them, did you?

Yes, I did.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

Shows that the use of EDTA/EGTA for mercury chelation may actually make
the mercury MORE toxic, and expands the number of proteins in the body
mercury can damage.

They even go so far as to say "Given the ubiquity of Hg2+ in the
environment and the widespread use of EDTA in foodstuffs and medicine,
these mercury complexes may pose a potentially serious threat to human
health and play a role in diseases of the neuronal cytoskeleton."

Actually, it shows...

HgEDTA complex inhibits GTP interactions with the E-site of brain
beta-tubulin.


Duhr EF, Pendergrass JC, Slevin JT, Haley BE.

Division of Medicinal Chemistry and Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy,
University of Kentucky Medical Center, Lexington.

We have found that EDTA and EGTA complexes of Hg2+, which conventional
wisdom has assumed are biologically inert, are potentially injurious to the
neuronal cytoskeleton. Tubulin, a major protein component of the neuronal
cytoskeleton, is the target of multiple toxicants, including many heavy
metal ions. Among the mercurials, inorganic mercuric ion (Hg2+) is one of
the most potent inhibitors of microtubule polymerization both in vivo and in
vitro. In contrast to other heavy metals, the capacity of Hg2+ to inhibit
microtubule polymerization or disrupt formed microtubules cannot be
prevented by the addition of EDTA and EGTA, both of which bind Hg2+ with
very high affinity. To the contrary, the addition of these two chelating
agents potentiates Hg2+ inhibition of tubulin polymerization. Results herein
show that HgEDTA and HgEGTA inhibit tubulin polymerization by disrupting the
interaction of GTP with the E-site of brain beta-tubulin, an obligatory step
in the polymerization of tubulin. Both HgEDTA and HgEGTA, but not free Hg2+,
prevented binding of [32P]8N3GTP, a photoaffinity nucleotide analog of GTP,
to the E-site and displaced bound [32P]8N3GTP at low micromolar
concentrations. This complete inhibition of photoinsertion into the E-site
occurred in a concentration- and time-dependent fashion and was specific for
Hg2+ complexes of EDTA and EGTA, among the chelating agents tested. Given
the ubiquity of Hg2+ in the environment and the widespread use of EDTA in
foodstuffs and medicine, these mercury complexes may pose a potentially
serious threat to human health and play a role in diseases of the neuronal
cytoskeleton.

Not exactly rousing support for the use of chelation therapy...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand,

It IS revelant to the subject at hand.



Mercury vapor inhalation inhibits binding of GTP to tubulin in rat brain:
similarity to a molecular lesion in Alzheimer diseased brain.

They demonstrate further that the capacity of DMPS to deplete tissue Hg2+ is
highly tissue-specific and reflects the relative capacity of the tissue for
methylmercury dealkylation. In light of this observation, the inability of
DMPS to reduce Hg2+ levels in brain or blood may explain the inefficacy of
DMPS and similar chelating agents in the remediation of neurotoxicity
associated with prolonged MMH exposure.


The objective of the conference was to review experimental and clinical
studies concerned with the effectiveness and potential toxicity of chelating
agents used to reduce the body burden of various metals and to identify
research needs in the area of chelation. The conference was prompted by
emerging evidence that low-level exposures to metals may result in toxic
effects not previously recognized.


as it doesn't relate to chelation
therapy, EDTA/EGTA, or treatment of other heavy metal toxicities. The
scientific/medical world is well aware of the potential risk of mercury
fillings; I'm not sure why you seem to think otherwise...

That's right you are not sure. Look up my old posts. Hopefully-you will
see why.


American Journal of Advancement of Medicine, and administers a "board
certification" program that is not recognized by the scientific community.

A vast majority of people do not come into significant contact with toxic
heavy metals.

http://www.ncjournalforwomen.com/mon...y04pittman.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

A study showing that DMPS is an excellent drug to use for the removal of
mercury. Once again showing that "chelation therapy" that you and your
ilk promote is crap. There are far better, and safer drugs out there for
mercury toxicity.

In light of this observation, the inability of DMPS to reduce Hg2+ levels in
brain or blood may explain the inefficacy of DMPS and similar chelating
agents in the remediation of neurotoxicity associated with prolonged MMH
exposure.



http://www.ehponline.org/docs/1995/1...ingreport.html

Report showing that EDTA/EGTA isn't used for mercury poisoning treatment,
and questions the usefulness and safety of using chelating agents for
mercury treatment.

Chelation of Mercury
Another objective of the conference was to review the effectiveness of drugs
for removal of mercury. The two chelating agents that have been most studied
for removal of mercury are DMSA and a related drug,
2,3-dimercapto-1-propanesulfonic acid, (DMPS, dimaval) (22). DMSA and DMPS
are chemical analogs of BAL (dimercaprol) and can be administered orally.
However, the two drugs are biotransformed differently in humans. More than
90% of DMSA excreted in urine of humans is in the form of a mixed disulfide
in which each of the sulfur atoms of DMSA is in disulfide linkage with a
cysteine molecule. After DMPS administration, however, acyclic and cyclic
disulfides of DMPS are the major metabolites in the urine (23,24). Both DMSA
and DMPS increase the urinary excretion of mercury.

Animal studies have shown that DMPS exhibits some organ specificity in the
chelation of mercury (25,26). In rats exposed to mercuric chloride or
mercury vapor, administration of DMPS increased urinary excretion of mercury
and decreased renal mercury content. The increase in urinary excretion was
directly proportional to the renal burden of mercury in rats injected with
mercuric chloride or exposed to mercury vapor. Thus, DMPS may be of
potential use to measure the renal burden of lead and mercury.

About two-thirds of the mercury excreted in persons with mercury-containing
dental amalgams appears to be derived from mercury vapor released earlier
from their amalgams, and a highly significant positive correlation has been
found between numbers and sizes of amalgam fillings and urinary mercury
excretion following DMPS administration (27).

So how exactly do these reports show that the chelation therapy your
promote, as in using EDTA/EGTA, is in any way beneficial? You've got
papers showing that the use of EDTA/EGTA may enhance mercury toxicity,
papers showing that other drugs work far, far better, and then some
irrelevant links. Not exactly stunning support of the chelation therapy
you like to promote.

Bryan

They clearly shows the misinformation posted was wrong--plus the falsehoods.

Jan Drew wrote:

So how exactly do these reports show that the chelation therapy your
promote, as in using EDTA/EGTA, is in any way beneficial? You've got
papers showing that the use of EDTA/EGTA may enhance mercury toxicity,
papers showing that other drugs work far, far better, and then some
irrelevant links. Not exactly stunning support of the chelation therapy
you like to promote.

Bryan

They clearly shows the misinformation posted was wrong--plus the falsehoods.


No Jan, the links clearly show that the chelation therapy your little
anti-vax groups promote do not work. Plain and simple. The drugs they
promote for their mythological mercury diseases have absolutely no
medically significant impact on body mercury levels. When people get
real mercury poisoning (not the pretend kind they claim comes from
vaccines) the very drugs they claim are the cats meow aren't used
because not only do they not work, but they may even enhance the
toxicity of mercury.

That is what those links show. Clearly and definitively.

Bryan

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
Jan Drew wrote:

So how exactly do these reports show that the chelation therapy your
promote, as in using EDTA/EGTA, is in any way beneficial? You've got
papers showing that the use of EDTA/EGTA may enhance mercury toxicity,
papers showing that other drugs work far, far better, and then some
irrelevant links. Not exactly stunning support of the chelation therapy
you like to promote.

Bryan

They clearly shows the misinformation posted was wrong--plus the
falsehoods.


No Jan, the links clearly show that the chelation therapy your little
anti-vax groups promote do not work. Plain and simple. The drugs they
promote for their mythological mercury diseases have absolutely no
medically significant impact on body mercury levels. When people get real
mercury poisoning (not the pretend kind they claim comes from vaccines)
the very drugs they claim are the cats meow aren't used because not only
do they not work, but they may even enhance the toxicity of mercury.

That is what those links show. Clearly and definitively.

Bryan

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...eve&db=pubmed&...

Shows that the use of EDTA/EGTA for mercury chelation may actually make
the mercury MORE toxic, and expands the number of proteins in the body
mercury can damage.


They even go so far as to say "Given the ubiquity of Hg2+ in the
environment and the widespread use of EDTA in foodstuffs and medicine,
these mercury complexes may pose a potentially serious threat to human
health and play a role in diseases of the neuronal cytoskeleton."



Actually, it shows...

HgEDTA complex inhibits GTP interactions with the E-site of brain
beta-tubulin.


Duhr EF, Pendergrass JC, Slevin JT, Haley BE.


Division of Medicinal Chemistry and Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy,
University of Kentucky Medical Center, Lexington.


We have found that EDTA and EGTA complexes of Hg2+, which conventional
wisdom has assumed are biologically inert, are potentially injurious to the
neuronal cytoskeleton. Tubulin, a major protein component of the neuronal
cytoskeleton, is the target of multiple toxicants, including many heavy
metal ions. Among the mercurials, inorganic mercuric ion (Hg2+) is one of
the most potent inhibitors of microtubule polymerization both in vivo and in
vitro. In contrast to other heavy metals, the capacity of Hg2+ to inhibit
microtubule polymerization or disrupt formed microtubules cannot be
prevented by the addition of EDTA and EGTA, both of which bind Hg2+ with
very high affinity. To the contrary, the addition of these two chelating
agents potentiates Hg2+ inhibition of tubulin polymerization. Results herein
show that HgEDTA and HgEGTA inhibit tubulin polymerization by disrupting the
interaction of GTP with the E-site of brain beta-tubulin, an obligatory step
in the polymerization of tubulin. Both HgEDTA and HgEGTA, but not free Hg2+,
prevented binding of [32P]8N3GTP, a photoaffinity nucleotide analog of GTP,
to the E-site and displaced bound [32P]8N3GTP at low micromolar
concentrations. This complete inhibition of photoinsertion into the E-site
occurred in a concentration- and time-dependent fashion and was specific for
Hg2+ complexes of EDTA and EGTA, among the chelating agents tested. Given
the ubiquity of Hg2+ in the environment and the widespread use of EDTA in
foodstuffs and medicine, these mercury complexes may pose a potentially
serious threat to human health and play a role in diseases of the neuronal
cytoskeleton.



Not exactly rousing support for the use of chelation therapy...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...eve&db=pubmed&...


Irrelevant to the discussion at hand,



It IS revelant to the subject at hand.

Mercury vapor inhalation inhibits binding of GTP to tubulin in rat brain:
similarity to a molecular lesion in Alzheimer diseased brain.


They demonstrate further that the capacity of DMPS to deplete tissue Hg2+ is
highly tissue-specific and reflects the relative capacity of the tissue for
methylmercury dealkylation. In light of this observation, the inability of
DMPS to reduce Hg2+ levels in brain or blood may explain the inefficacy of
DMPS and similar chelating agents in the remediation of neurotoxicity
associated with prolonged MMH exposure.


The objective of the conference was to review experimental and clinical
studies concerned with the effectiveness and potential toxicity of chelating
agents used to reduce the body burden of various metals and to identify
research needs in the area of chelation. The conference was prompted by
emerging evidence that low-level exposures to metals may result in toxic
effects not previously recognized.


as it doesn't relate to chelation



therapy, EDTA/EGTA, or treatment of other heavy metal toxicities. The
scientific/medical world is well aware of the potential risk of mercury
fillings; I'm not sure why you seem to think otherwise...


That's right you are not sure. Look up my old posts. Hopefully-you will
see why.

American Journal of Advancement of Medicine, and administers a "board
certification" program that is not recognized by the scientific community.


A vast majority of people do not come into significant contact with toxic
heavy metals.


http://www.ncjournalforwomen.com/mon...04/may04pittma...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...eve&db=pubmed&...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...eve&db=pubmed&...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...eve&db=pubmed&...



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...eve&db=pubmed&...


A study showing that DMPS is an excellent drug to use for the removal of
mercury. Once again showing that "chelation therapy" that you and your
ilk promote is crap. There are far better, and safer drugs out there for
mercury toxicity.



In light of this observation, the inability of DMPS to reduce Hg2+ levels in
brain or blood may explain the inefficacy of DMPS and similar chelating
agents in the remediation of neurotoxicity associated with prolonged MMH
exposure.


http://www.ehponline.org/docs/1995/1...ingreport.html


Report showing that EDTA/EGTA isn't used for mercury poisoning treatment,
and questions the usefulness and safety of using chelating agents for
mercury treatment.



Chelation of Mercury
Another objective of the conference was to review the effectiveness of drugs
for removal of mercury. The two chelating agents that have been most studied
for removal of mercury are DMSA and a related drug,
2,3-dimercapto-1-propanesulfonic acid, (DMPS, dimaval) (22). DMSA and DMPS
are chemical analogs of BAL (dimercaprol) and can be administered orally.
However, the two drugs are biotransformed differently in humans. More than
90% of DMSA excreted in urine of humans is in the form of a mixed disulfide
in which each of the sulfur atoms of DMSA is in disulfide linkage with a
cysteine molecule. After DMPS administration, however, acyclic and cyclic
disulfides of DMPS are the major metabolites in the urine (23,24). Both DMSA
and DMPS increase the urinary excretion of mercury.

Animal studies have shown that DMPS exhibits some organ specificity in the
chelation of mercury (25,26). In rats exposed to mercuric chloride or
mercury vapor, administration of DMPS increased urinary excretion of mercury
and decreased renal mercury content. The increase in urinary excretion was
directly proportional to the renal burden of mercury in rats injected with
mercuric chloride or exposed to mercury vapor. Thus, DMPS may be of
potential use to measure the renal burden of lead and mercury.


About two-thirds of the mercury excreted in persons with mercury-containing
dental amalgams appears to be derived from mercury vapor released earlier
from their amalgams, and a highly significant positive correlation has been
found between numbers and sizes of amalgam fillings and urinary mercury
excretion following DMPS administration (27).



So how exactly do these reports show that the chelation therapy your
promote, as in using EDTA/EGTA, is in any way beneficial? You've got
papers showing that the use of EDTA/EGTA may enhance mercury toxicity,
papers showing that other drugs work far, far better, and then some
irrelevant links. Not exactly stunning support of the chelation therapy
you like to promote.


Bryan



They clearly shows the misinformation posted was wrong--plus the falsehoods.

In message , Jan Drew wrote:

They clearly shows the misinformation posted was wrong--plus the
falsehoods.

ROTFLMAO!

Only Jan. Who else would post something that totally contradicts
her own position and then claim that it proves that the other poster
is lying? You can't make up stuff like this!

--
begin signature.exe
A:*Because*it*messes*up*the*order*in*which*people* normally*read*text.
Q:*Why*is*top-posting*such*a*bad*thing?
A:*Top-posting.
Q:*What*is*the*most*annoying*thing*on*usenet?

Jan Drew wrote:
"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...eve&db=pubmed&...

Shows that the use of EDTA/EGTA for mercury chelation may actually make
the mercury MORE toxic, and expands the number of proteins in the body
mercury can damage.


They even go so far as to say "Given the ubiquity of Hg2+ in the
environment and the widespread use of EDTA in foodstuffs and medicine,
these mercury complexes may pose a potentially serious threat to human
health and play a role in diseases of the neuronal cytoskeleton."



Actually, it shows...

HgEDTA complex inhibits GTP interactions with the E-site of brain
beta-tubulin.


Hey Jan, tubulin is one of the two major parts of a cells cytoskeleton.
And when you inhibit GTP interactions with B-tubulin you destroy that
part of the cytoskeleton. Exactly what I stated, expanded toxicity
compared to mercury alone. So how exactly does repeating my link
disprove anything I said? Oh wait, IT CONFIRMS IT, just in more detail!
Just goes to show you are so far out of your depth you don't even
understand the material you are replying to, or for that matter, the
material you are replying with.

Here's a starter on what the "cytoskeleton" is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytoskeleton



Duhr EF, Pendergrass JC, Slevin JT, Haley BE.


Division of Medicinal Chemistry and Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy,
University of Kentucky Medical Center, Lexington.


We have found that EDTA and EGTA complexes of Hg2+, which conventional
wisdom has assumed are biologically inert, are potentially injurious to the
neuronal cytoskeleton. Tubulin, a major protein component of the neuronal
cytoskeleton, is the target of multiple toxicants, including many heavy
metal ions. Among the mercurials, inorganic mercuric ion (Hg2+) is one of
the most potent inhibitors of microtubule polymerization both in vivo and in
vitro. In contrast to other heavy metals, the capacity of Hg2+ to inhibit
microtubule polymerization or disrupt formed microtubules cannot be
prevented by the addition of EDTA and EGTA, both of which bind Hg2+ with
very high affinity. To the contrary, the addition of these two chelating
agents potentiates Hg2+ inhibition of tubulin polymerization. Results herein
show that HgEDTA and HgEGTA inhibit tubulin polymerization by disrupting the
interaction of GTP with the E-site of brain beta-tubulin, an obligatory step
in the polymerization of tubulin. Both HgEDTA and HgEGTA, but not free Hg2+,
prevented binding of [32P]8N3GTP, a photoaffinity nucleotide analog of GTP,
to the E-site and displaced bound [32P]8N3GTP at low micromolar
concentrations. This complete inhibition of photoinsertion into the E-site
occurred in a concentration- and time-dependent fashion and was specific for
Hg2+ complexes of EDTA and EGTA, among the chelating agents tested. Given
the ubiquity of Hg2+ in the environment and the widespread use of EDTA in
foodstuffs and medicine, these mercury complexes may pose a potentially
serious threat to human health and play a role in diseases of the neuronal
cytoskeleton.



Not exactly rousing support for the use of chelation therapy...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...eve&db=pubmed&...


Irrelevant to the discussion at hand,



It IS revelant to the subject at hand.

Mercury vapor inhalation inhibits binding of GTP to tubulin in rat brain:
similarity to a molecular lesion in Alzheimer diseased brain.


Jan, your inability to follow basic threads on usenet is disturbing.
We've talked, for the last dozen or so posts, about CHELATION THERAPY.
As in that little therapy you and your ilk promote as treatment for the
mythological mercury diseases you've invented. The article you've
linked to in no, way, shape, or form relates to chelation therapy. The
word "chelation" doesn't even appear in the article.

Nothing to do with the discussion at hand.



therapy, EDTA/EGTA, or treatment of other heavy metal toxicities. The
scientific/medical world is well aware of the potential risk of mercury
fillings; I'm not sure why you seem to think otherwise...


That's right you are not sure.


Actually, I'm pretty sure I know why. I was just being polite. Given
your repetitively demonstrated inability to understand the content of
scientific articles I assumed your inability to understand this concept
was the same as the reasons why you don't understand nearly every other
article we send your way - you're scientifically illiterate.


Look up my old posts. Hopefully-you will
see why.


They look much the same as these ones - insane ramblings filled with
misunderstanding of how modern medicine works, plus a dash of paranoia.

Bryan

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
Jan Drew wrote:

Incorrect.

"Jan Drew" wrote in message
t...


So how exactly do these reports show that the chelation therapy your
promote, as in using EDTA/EGTA, is in any way beneficial? You've got
papers showing that the use of EDTA/EGTA may enhance mercury toxicity,
papers showing that other drugs work far, far better, and then some
irrelevant links. Not exactly stunning support of the chelation
therapy you like to promote.

Bryan

They clearly shows the misinformation posted was wrong--plus the
falsehoods.


No Jan, the links clearly show that the chelation therapy your little
anti-vax groups promote do not work. Plain and simple. The drugs they
promote for their mythological mercury diseases have absolutely no
medically significant impact on body mercury levels. When people get
real mercury poisoning (not the pretend kind they claim comes from
vaccines) the very drugs they claim are the cats meow aren't used because
not only do they not work, but they may even enhance the toxicity of
mercury.

That is what those links show. Clearly and definitively.

Bryan

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...eve&db=pubmed&...

Shows that the use of EDTA/EGTA for mercury chelation may actually make
the mercury MORE toxic, and expands the number of proteins in the body
mercury can damage.


They even go so far as to say "Given the ubiquity of Hg2+ in the
environment and the widespread use of EDTA in foodstuffs and medicine,
these mercury complexes may pose a potentially serious threat to human
health and play a role in diseases of the neuronal cytoskeleton."



Actually, it shows...

HgEDTA complex inhibits GTP interactions with the E-site of brain
beta-tubulin.


Duhr EF, Pendergrass JC, Slevin JT, Haley BE.


Division of Medicinal Chemistry and Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy,
University of Kentucky Medical Center, Lexington.


We have found that EDTA and EGTA complexes of Hg2+, which conventional
wisdom has assumed are biologically inert, are potentially injurious to
the
neuronal cytoskeleton. Tubulin, a major protein component of the neuronal
cytoskeleton, is the target of multiple toxicants, including many heavy
metal ions. Among the mercurials, inorganic mercuric ion (Hg2+) is one of
the most potent inhibitors of microtubule polymerization both in vivo and
in
vitro. In contrast to other heavy metals, the capacity of Hg2+ to inhibit
microtubule polymerization or disrupt formed microtubules cannot be
prevented by the addition of EDTA and EGTA, both of which bind Hg2+ with
very high affinity. To the contrary, the addition of these two chelating
agents potentiates Hg2+ inhibition of tubulin polymerization. Results
herein
show that HgEDTA and HgEGTA inhibit tubulin polymerization by disrupting
the
interaction of GTP with the E-site of brain beta-tubulin, an obligatory
step
in the polymerization of tubulin. Both HgEDTA and HgEGTA, but not free
Hg2+,
prevented binding of [32P]8N3GTP, a photoaffinity nucleotide analog of
GTP,
to the E-site and displaced bound [32P]8N3GTP at low micromolar
concentrations. This complete inhibition of photoinsertion into the E-site
occurred in a concentration- and time-dependent fashion and was specific
for
Hg2+ complexes of EDTA and EGTA, among the chelating agents tested. Given
the ubiquity of Hg2+ in the environment and the widespread use of EDTA in
foodstuffs and medicine, these mercury complexes may pose a potentially
serious threat to human health and play a role in diseases of the neuronal
cytoskeleton.



Not exactly rousing support for the use of chelation therapy...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...eve&db=pubmed&...


Irrelevant to the discussion at hand,



It IS revelant to the subject at hand.

Mercury vapor inhalation inhibits binding of GTP to tubulin in rat brain:
similarity to a molecular lesion in Alzheimer diseased brain.


They demonstrate further that the capacity of DMPS to deplete tissue Hg2+
is
highly tissue-specific and reflects the relative capacity of the tissue
for
methylmercury dealkylation. In light of this observation, the inability of
DMPS to reduce Hg2+ levels in brain or blood may explain the inefficacy of
DMPS and similar chelating agents in the remediation of neurotoxicity
associated with prolonged MMH exposure.


The objective of the conference was to review experimental and clinical
studies concerned with the effectiveness and potential toxicity of
chelating
agents used to reduce the body burden of various metals and to identify
research needs in the area of chelation. The conference was prompted by
emerging evidence that low-level exposures to metals may result in toxic
effects not previously recognized.


as it doesn't relate to chelation



therapy, EDTA/EGTA, or treatment of other heavy metal toxicities. The
scientific/medical world is well aware of the potential risk of mercury
fillings; I'm not sure why you seem to think otherwise...


That's right you are not sure. Look up my old posts. Hopefully-you will
see why.

American Journal of Advancement of Medicine, and administers a "board
certification" program that is not recognized by the scientific community.


A vast majority of people do not come into significant contact with toxic
heavy metals.


http://www.ncjournalforwomen.com/mon...04/may04pittma...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...eve&db=pubmed&...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...eve&db=pubmed&...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...eve&db=pubmed&...



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...eve&db=pubmed&...


A study showing that DMPS is an excellent drug to use for the removal of
mercury. Once again showing that "chelation therapy" that you and your
ilk promote is crap. There are far better, and safer drugs out there for
mercury toxicity.



In light of this observation, the inability of DMPS to reduce Hg2+ levels
in
brain or blood may explain the inefficacy of DMPS and similar chelating
agents in the remediation of neurotoxicity associated with prolonged MMH
exposure.


http://www.ehponline.org/docs/1995/1...ingreport.html


Report showing that EDTA/EGTA isn't used for mercury poisoning treatment,
and questions the usefulness and safety of using chelating agents for
mercury treatment.



Chelation of Mercury
Another objective of the conference was to review the effectiveness of
drugs
for removal of mercury. The two chelating agents that have been most
studied
for removal of mercury are DMSA and a related drug,
2,3-dimercapto-1-propanesulfonic acid, (DMPS, dimaval) (22). DMSA and DMPS
are chemical analogs of BAL (dimercaprol) and can be administered orally.
However, the two drugs are biotransformed differently in humans. More than
90% of DMSA excreted in urine of humans is in the form of a mixed
disulfide
in which each of the sulfur atoms of DMSA is in disulfide linkage with a
cysteine molecule. After DMPS administration, however, acyclic and cyclic
disulfides of DMPS are the major metabolites in the urine (23,24). Both
DMSA
and DMPS increase the urinary excretion of mercury.

Animal studies have shown that DMPS exhibits some organ specificity in the
chelation of mercury (25,26). In rats exposed to mercuric chloride or
mercury vapor, administration of DMPS increased urinary excretion of
mercury
and decreased renal mercury content. The increase in urinary excretion was
directly proportional to the renal burden of mercury in rats injected with
mercuric chloride or exposed to mercury vapor. Thus, DMPS may be of
potential use to measure the renal burden of lead and mercury.


About two-thirds of the mercury excreted in persons with
mercury-containing
dental amalgams appears to be derived from mercury vapor released earlier
from their amalgams, and a highly significant positive correlation has
been
found between numbers and sizes of amalgam fillings and urinary mercury
excretion following DMPS administration (27).



So how exactly do these reports show that the chelation therapy your
promote, as in using EDTA/EGTA, is in any way beneficial? You've got
papers showing that the use of EDTA/EGTA may enhance mercury toxicity,
papers showing that other drugs work far, far better, and then some
irrelevant links. Not exactly stunning support of the chelation therapy
you like to promote.


Bryan



They clearly shows the misinformation posted was wrong--plus the
falsehoods.

"Jan Drew" wrote:

Jan Drew wrote:

Incorrect.

For once Jan is correct.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com