Is this proper?

"Henry" wrote in message
7.142...
"DB" wrote in
m:


"Henry" wrote in

I want to be enlightened!!! Please give my ex a spreadsheet, and
supply me with the monthly receipts and a printout. I'll cut her
slack on some of the bills, some of the mortgage, food and even
captial expenditures like a bed and a dresser. After that, though, I
want a refund for the overpayment. Fair enough?


Play it the other way, what if your child came to live with you?

You're already paying rent or a mortgage and utilities, so the child
doesn't cost you anything there.
Not much extra to put another plate on the table for Breakfast and
Dinner. Half the time you throw away excess food anyway or just bag it
for lunch the next day, so again the child is no extra burden.

So the real cost of feeding a child is the lunch cost? You already
pack your own lunch, so what does it cost to throw in a piece of
Fruit, a sandwich, desert pack and carton of milk? This is what I ate
when my parents packed my lunch!!!!

Clothes, how many pairs of jeans and shoes can you buy in one month?

How did my immigrant parents ever raise us 3 kids on one blue collar
salary? They sure as hell didn't have a $800 dollar CS check coming in
every month to help them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I know fully how most childrens day-to-day costs are basically absorbed
into your own. But, they do drink a lot of milk, go through a loaf of
bread like crazy, spend time in baths, etc. So there is a cost. A real
cost.

Speaking from experience since my oldest two sons are adults and no longer
live under my roof, there is a much larger savings then most people realize.
It goes beyond the cost of food, which for my personally was more than
$100/wk. I no longer have the responsibility of supplying clothing, medical
& dental insurance, and other essential items people need day-to-day.

Look at it this way... in the US a parent receives a reduction to their
personal tax liability when filing their taxes. If they are not spending
much more than what their reduction equals, then they will actually see a
reduction of day-to-day spending cash after their children leave.

Sports and music programs were typically free to families when most of us in
this group was young. Today most families are faced with large costs to
have their children enrolled in those types of activities. I understand
that some parents feel their children shouldn't participate, but like it or
not those are a direct cost to the child.

How much calories a person consumes should depend on their gender, activity
level, age, height, and weight. Currently in my household my husband should
consume more than anyone else followed by my SS, my BS, myself, and then my
SD. Each male in my house will consume twice the meat I do, and they should
be. It should be costing us much less to feed my SD than it is costing us
to feed anyone of the minor boys. My SS should be consuming close to twice
the calories I need. Get the picture? In truth if I wanted to get rough
figures I could use a spreadsheet and calculate consumption based on need,
but will this paint a true picture? Heck no. BTW - there are no weight
problems or medical problems associated to weight in my house. All of us
are HWP.


Thanks,
Tracy
~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/

"Tracy" wrote in message
...
"Henry" wrote in message
7.142...
"DB" wrote in
m:


"Henry" wrote in

I want to be enlightened!!! Please give my ex a spreadsheet, and
supply me with the monthly receipts and a printout. I'll cut her
slack on some of the bills, some of the mortgage, food and even
captial expenditures like a bed and a dresser. After that, though, I
want a refund for the overpayment. Fair enough?


Play it the other way, what if your child came to live with you?

You're already paying rent or a mortgage and utilities, so the child
doesn't cost you anything there.
Not much extra to put another plate on the table for Breakfast and
Dinner. Half the time you throw away excess food anyway or just bag it
for lunch the next day, so again the child is no extra burden.

So the real cost of feeding a child is the lunch cost? You already
pack your own lunch, so what does it cost to throw in a piece of
Fruit, a sandwich, desert pack and carton of milk? This is what I ate
when my parents packed my lunch!!!!

Clothes, how many pairs of jeans and shoes can you buy in one month?

How did my immigrant parents ever raise us 3 kids on one blue collar
salary? They sure as hell didn't have a $800 dollar CS check coming in
every month to help them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I know fully how most childrens day-to-day costs are basically absorbed
into your own. But, they do drink a lot of milk, go through a loaf of
bread like crazy, spend time in baths, etc. So there is a cost. A real
cost.

Speaking from experience since my oldest two sons are adults and no longer
live under my roof, there is a much larger savings then most people
realize.
It goes beyond the cost of food, which for my personally was more than
$100/wk. I no longer have the responsibility of supplying clothing,
medical
& dental insurance, and other essential items people need day-to-day.

Look at it this way... in the US a parent receives a reduction to their
personal tax liability when filing their taxes. If they are not spending
much more than what their reduction equals, then they will actually see a
reduction of day-to-day spending cash after their children leave.

Sports and music programs were typically free to families when most of us
in
this group was young. Today most families are faced with large costs to
have their children enrolled in those types of activities. I understand
that some parents feel their children shouldn't participate, but like it
or
not those are a direct cost to the child.

This is where I have problems, Tracy. I don't think that one parent should
be permitted to make that choice and expect the other parent to pay. I
think children need activities, but there needs to be binding input from
both parents before decisions are made. I have some friends--I've known
them for years--who divorced a few years ago. They are both very nice
people, except to each other. Their daughter has been enrolled in more
activities than you can shake a stick at, because mom thinks she "needs"
these activities to develop properly. But she never sticks with one
activity long enough to master it. And every time she changes activities,
she needs all new equipment and supplies. And dad is given NO input! He
either helps pay for the activity, or is accused by mom of not doing his
share, not caring enough about his daughter, who is, of course, enchanted by
the new activity. Why should he have to shell out big bucks every time the
child flits from one activity to the next?

There is also the problem of overextending the children. I've got
*kindergartners* who are enrolled in ballet, gymnastics, cheerleading,
sports, and so on. Some of them are at these activities 4 or more days a
week. And it doesn't get any better as they move up through the grades.
When do the children get quiet, at-home time? Children don't need all this
nonstop activity. These days we are seeing children suffering from stress.
I don't remember children having high stress levels when I was growing up.
Yes, children do need activities. But how much is enough? And who gets to
make that decision? This is one of my biggest problems with lifestyle child
support. NO child anywhere is OWED hang gliding lessons. Or ballet. Or
baseball. These are activities that parents need to discuss together. But
the courts have taken away any reason for the CP to discuss things by saying
"This is the lifestyle your child is owed." Then CP says, "BTW, team
pictures are $85, and you need to pay by Friday and Johnny needs new track
shoes--only$100 this time" and what's an NCP to do? Say no? Or just give
in?

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 07:58:12 -0800, "teachrmama"
wrote:


"Tracy" wrote in message
...
"Henry" wrote in message
7.142...
"DB" wrote in
m:


"Henry" wrote in

I want to be enlightened!!! Please give my ex a spreadsheet, and
supply me with the monthly receipts and a printout. I'll cut her
slack on some of the bills, some of the mortgage, food and even
captial expenditures like a bed and a dresser. After that, though, I
want a refund for the overpayment. Fair enough?


Play it the other way, what if your child came to live with you?

You're already paying rent or a mortgage and utilities, so the child
doesn't cost you anything there.
Not much extra to put another plate on the table for Breakfast and
Dinner. Half the time you throw away excess food anyway or just bag it
for lunch the next day, so again the child is no extra burden.

So the real cost of feeding a child is the lunch cost? You already
pack your own lunch, so what does it cost to throw in a piece of
Fruit, a sandwich, desert pack and carton of milk? This is what I ate
when my parents packed my lunch!!!!

Clothes, how many pairs of jeans and shoes can you buy in one month?

How did my immigrant parents ever raise us 3 kids on one blue collar
salary? They sure as hell didn't have a $800 dollar CS check coming in
every month to help them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I know fully how most childrens day-to-day costs are basically absorbed
into your own. But, they do drink a lot of milk, go through a loaf of
bread like crazy, spend time in baths, etc. So there is a cost. A real
cost.

Speaking from experience since my oldest two sons are adults and no longer
live under my roof, there is a much larger savings then most people
realize.
It goes beyond the cost of food, which for my personally was more than
$100/wk. I no longer have the responsibility of supplying clothing,
medical
& dental insurance, and other essential items people need day-to-day.

Look at it this way... in the US a parent receives a reduction to their
personal tax liability when filing their taxes. If they are not spending
much more than what their reduction equals, then they will actually see a
reduction of day-to-day spending cash after their children leave.

Sports and music programs were typically free to families when most of us
in
this group was young. Today most families are faced with large costs to
have their children enrolled in those types of activities. I understand
that some parents feel their children shouldn't participate, but like it
or
not those are a direct cost to the child.

This is where I have problems, Tracy. I don't think that one parent should
be permitted to make that choice and expect the other parent to pay. I
think children need activities, but there needs to be binding input from
both parents before decisions are made. I have some friends--I've known
them for years--who divorced a few years ago. They are both very nice
people, except to each other. Their daughter has been enrolled in more
activities than you can shake a stick at, because mom thinks she "needs"
these activities to develop properly. But she never sticks with one
activity long enough to master it. And every time she changes activities,
she needs all new equipment and supplies. And dad is given NO input! He
either helps pay for the activity, or is accused by mom of not doing his
share, not caring enough about his daughter, who is, of course, enchanted by
the new activity. Why should he have to shell out big bucks every time the
child flits from one activity to the next?

There is also the problem of overextending the children. I've got
*kindergartners* who are enrolled in ballet, gymnastics, cheerleading,
sports, and so on. Some of them are at these activities 4 or more days a
week. And it doesn't get any better as they move up through the grades.
When do the children get quiet, at-home time? Children don't need all this
nonstop activity. These days we are seeing children suffering from stress.
I don't remember children having high stress levels when I was growing up.
Yes, children do need activities. But how much is enough? And who gets to
make that decision? This is one of my biggest problems with lifestyle child
support. NO child anywhere is OWED hang gliding lessons. Or ballet. Or
baseball. These are activities that parents need to discuss together. But
the courts have taken away any reason for the CP to discuss things by saying
"This is the lifestyle your child is owed." Then CP says, "BTW, team
pictures are $85, and you need to pay by Friday and Johnny needs new track
shoes--only$100 this time" and what's an NCP to do? Say no? Or just give
in?

Do you mean that CP's actually ask for money above and beyond child
support for these things? I thought child support (including any
court ordered medical insurance and/or daycare reimbursement) was
supposed to cover all of the NCP's portion of expenses; therefore, if
the CP chooses to enroll the child in a zillion activities, they also
have the burden of figuring out how to pay for it.

As I said in a previous post, my children attend a public school where
all elective except physical education have a fee attached. For the
very poor, a student can spend half the day in PE. Not that I don't
consider PE an important thing for children... but they don't TEACH
anything in these PE classes. My sons have each been "stuck" in a PE
class when the classes they wanted were full (seniors get priority and
8th graders get the classes IF there is still room). My sons played a
lot of cards in PE and I fail to see how that is physical. My sons
have chosen to be in the band as an elective music class. A component
of this is mandatory extra-curricular. Fees are high because bands
are only second to football here in the south and they go all out.
No, I don't agree with the extravagance that costs so much, but it is
simply the way it is.

I don't feel I am wrong for not giving my ex a say in this. This is a
man who actually profited from having sired children (got the tax
dependencies, yet paid no support) and actually asked the court to
eliminate his child support obligation yet let him keep the
dependencies because he needed the money. He does NOT have the
children's best interests at heart.