Those Deadly Tasers again

"Doan" wrote in message
...

On 30 Mar 2005 wrote:

I just knew this would devolve into something brilliant.

0:-

Kane


Yup! I am still waiting for the research that support
your claim that tasers are safe on SIX-YEAR OLDS!

Doan


I thought he already posted that information. Something about someone doing
tests on six year old pigs?

Billy

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Mountain_Bill wrote:


"Doan" wrote in message
...

On 30 Mar 2005 wrote:

I just knew this would devolve into something brilliant.

0:-

Kane


Yup! I am still waiting for the research that support
your claim that tasers are safe on SIX-YEAR OLDS!

Doan


I thought he already posted that information. Something about someone doing
tests on six year old pigs?

Billy

LOL!

Doan

Mountain_Bill wrote:
"Doan" wrote in message
...

On 30 Mar 2005 wrote:

I just knew this would devolve into something brilliant.

0:-

Kane


Yup! I am still waiting for the research that support
your claim that tasers are safe on SIX-YEAR OLDS!

Doan


I thought he already posted that information. Something about someone
doing
tests on six year old pigs?

A six year old pig is about equivalent to an 80 year old man. Pigs have
rather short lives, generally. The ones used for experiment are not
only specially bred, like all lab animals, with characteristics that
would figure in the testing, but they are virus free born....they are
taken with the womb, placenta, and all, still intact out of the mother
pig, and the entire bundle of piglets are passed from the piggie OR
through a vat of disinfectent that has a passthrough into a sterile
room. There they are removed from the womb

Oh yes. Mother pig makes her next stop at the dog and cat food plant,
since dead pigs coming in the door cannot be slaughtered for human
consumption.

I'm always charmed when self important little ignoramouses pop up an
spout off.

Even the much pampered and well cared for Pot-bellied pet pig has a
lifespan about that of a dog or cat.
"
Life Span:
I feel that the life span of these pigs is not what we assumed in the
beginning. It is closer to the truth that they will have a productive
life that equals the life span of the well cared for dog. This would
make it between ten and fifteen years.
"

So a six year old pig (and the pigs used for experiment are usually
not, unless there is a longevity study underway, bred for long life) of
the kind used is probably very old at that age.

You'd want a 3 to 5 week old to hit the equivalent of a six year old
boy. Typical domestic pigs used (they are bred from the orginal Chester
White stock...and I do not know the current name, though one acronym
once common was PFP, Pneumonrhinitis Free Porcine--that's the special
clean room birthing thing, not the breed.)

It's been a long time since I dealt with livestock and veterinary
medicine.

By the way, the experiments are a waste of money. A great deal of
useful and solid research is done by reviewing records and publications
and prior reports.

There are 100,000 plus recorded incidences of the use of tasers on
willing and unwilling subjects. More than enough for a good statistical
analysis. Cop records of the disposition of perps tends to be reliable.
"After tasing the suspect, and finding him unresponsive we trasported
to hospital via ambulance. I accompanied. Suspect came too in the
ambulance and requied only treatment for mild systemic shock.
Attendants said his circulatory hypo tension was temporary and when we
arrived at the jail he was lucid, responsive, and walked under his own
power to check it."

Or "he was dead as a mackrel and autopsy report follows, see attach
#2."

100,000 recorded uses, Billy et al. That is an impressive group, with
all manner of subjects, age, weight, health, size, substances present
or absence, behaviors, all there. Many a researcher would give his left
nut for such a group to study the reports on.

Exactly, in fact, what showed already that Taser is far safer for all
parties, including the person targetted that other forms of force.

Yah got sucked into a PC nitwit's trap. The world is full of PC
nitwits. Plenty of them running around looking for the next "gee ain't
it awful." This one will calm down shortly, like most. Most cases now
that "gee" are "awful" consist of misuse by police..just like had they
used a gun, or club, or Capsicum, inappropriatedly. One death, they
shot the guy 17 times...obviously using more than one gun. And the
report still hasn't determined if the Taser was the cause of death.

Course you can ad hom babble instead of looking at facts, but that just
shows you to be an ass.

Billy

My comments from another thread on Taser:

Enjoy;

From: - Find messages by this author
Date: 3 Apr 2005 00:02:05 -0800
Local: Sun, Apr 3 2005 12:02 am
Subject: taser deaths
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | View Thread | Show original
| Remove | Report Abuse

There were 103 Taser stun gun-related deaths in the United States and
Canada
between June 2001 and March 2005, according to an Amnesty
International
report released Friday.

Really? Amnesty International you say? Hmmm...my oh my, this is getting
serious if AI reported these. No bias there, nosiree.

Greegor the facts, if you'd bother research them, are that Taser is NOT
a stun gun, though it can be used as one in a pinch. It is a aerial
flight electro shocking device. And stun guns themselves have been in
use, both by police and civilians for years and years and have an
outstanding record of not being directly related to deaths.

A death that happens in conjunction with use of a stun gun or taser,
may or may not be directly related to that use. The males victims where
mosty wearing belts, and the male victims were mostly resisting arrest,
and the male victims were mostly involved with other things that
drastically changed their physiology, like drugs and alcohol.

Cops have some choices of weaponry to use, and among those choices some
are deadly by intent, the deadly in deadly force usually means a
firearm, though in military terms there are other deadly weapons.

In this context, a cop can tase, can club, can mace, can grapple, and
can shoot with a gun. They are expected to chose the least force
possible to stop the attacker or the one resisting.

In all those cases listing, plus all those that did NOT result in
injury or death, some 100,000 or so I believe I read, the cops chose
not to use any other of the force available to them, ALL of which, have
a record of injury and or death rates MUCH higher than taser so far.

Per use, taser has proven to be effective and non lethal far more than
other means. Frankly of all the choices a cop has, where I the suspect
fighting them, the one I would chose, if I could, would be the taser.
I've been hit with a heavy jolt from pretty hefty sources...animal
stock prods...and I've been shot. And I've been gassed. I've been hit
with clubs, and I've grabbled with people far larger than me or more of
them than me, and taser would be my preference, personally, with a mind
to survival with the least injury.

I am accustomed, but feel just as you do, pain. I am accustomed to
accepting pain, if it also means I have less chance of later long term
injury or death.

I would NOT like to be shot again. I would not like to be clubbed
again. I would not chose to be grappled with by superior forces.

The currently available data, not your biased propaganda driven 103
taser related deaths, is my critera. I don't care if it's 1,003, or
10,003, as long as the total number of uses vs death continues to be
the very low ratio it is compared to OTHER MEANS the police have at
their disposal.

They even have used them on six year olds without harm to the child.

I'm much older, but probably have a far more sturdy system than a six
year old. They'd play hell trying to kill me with a taser. I'd likely
wear out a few off their 9 volt batteries (yes, that is what produces
the charge, a nine volt battery, with the charge being as low as 1 to
..03 joules..which is nothing compared to heart stimulant paddles at
around 3.0+ joules as I recall. And yah gotta work a bit to kill
someone with those.).

You are aware, I presume and am having to stretch some to give yah
that, that no force police use is without risk of injury and death,
right?

To stop me or you they must use force of some kind. The question is how
much of what kind for the situation at hand. If I have a gun in hand,
that makes the cops choice hard but fast. They best draw and fire NOW.
They know that. I know that. So I wouldn't have a gun in hand.

How about a knife? Hmm....tougher. Do I look drunk or sober, can I
focuse well or poorly, and most important....how close am I and am I
threatening by voice or movement. If I'm within 21 feet, the gun is the
proper tool if I am threatening and appear to have the capacity,
because I can cover that 21 feet in under three seconds and get a cut
or stab in on the officer that can easily be fatal.

He needs to draw and fire now, center of mass to stop me if he can.

But wait. There are two solutions available. One has a very serious
problem with it. Contrary to the movies, gunfire from a handgun RARELY,
and I mean RARELY puts the target down and stops them quickly. It's on
record that people have been shot rigth through heart, gone, no pumper,
and the remaining blood was sufficient to keep the perp on his feet and
still advancing and they killed the office with his gun in his hand
still firing at the perp.

But I did say two solutions. The other...ah the other has a very high
percentage of instant stops, not only with no injury to the officer,
but with a very low risk of death or injury to the perp. Much lower
according to currently available data.

The perp is rended incapacitated for a minute or so, time enough to
cuff and secure him or her safely for all, including the perp.

bobber, the PC crowd could be right. This weapon could possibly be
lethal in some circumstance,...so are all currently used police
weapons...even their flashlight. What they are NOT yet correct about is
their outrageous speculations that start to look like butt covering,
rather than simply not knowing as much as the data has shown us.

You should read the opponents and what they say, then compare it to the
claims you phonies a make about CPS and what they say. It's speculative
butt covering.

And the 103 deaths. Dig in to them and you find a large percentage are
proven to death unrelated to the electrical shock, other causes
entirely. And the remainder? Not one that I've heard, other than
flapping noodle heads, so far that is directly traced to death by
electrical shock. And even if you find ONE, what does that say about
the weapon as compared to a gun, or club, or grappling, or mace, all of
which have been directly the cause of deaths of perps, and bystanders.

You heard of any innocent bystander deaths related to the use of taser
yet?

It's much easier to aim and control, and it can't be used beyond 25
feet. The officer would have to close his eyes, spin three times, run
10 yards, and with eyes still closed, fire, to hit an innocent
bystander, and even then would have about zero chance of killing the
bystander.

This whole thing is a PC fiasco, yet another bit of PC CRAP...the very
thing you have ****ed and moaned about, and see, you have got ME
whining like you now, because you suddenly have jumped the fence to the
PC CRAPPOLA side.

For **** sakes man, either believe me and shut your stupid pie hole, or
go get some data NOT PRODUCED BY THE PROPAGANDIST PC CROWD AND COME
FIGHT LIKE A MAN.

If we waited until we could prove that we can use electricity with the
rate of safety the taser currently enjoys (there are deaths from the
standard uses of electricity..trust me on this) guess what? My next
line to you would be read in smoke from hilltop to hilltop.

In most of the death incidences I could find there were misuse by
police, as far as I could see, that would have had a high likelihood of
fatality no matter what means of force they were using. Just read one,
where they shot a guy 17 times with, obviously, multiple tasers
weapons. He died. But even then there is some question taser was the
direct cause of death.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/...death_rate.htm

This is a more balanced article, that points up the lack of
research..sadly an onother slight piece of PC nonsense. There are about
100k recorded uses of taser NONE of which resulted in serious injury or
death to the subjects. Many were volunteers.

And in fact there was a very extensive medical trials testing run on
taser use.

Did you know, for instance, that reports are coming in at greater and
greater rates that perps, having become familiar with the taser, some
by prior experience 0:-, upon seeing an officer draw the taser, simply
stop and comply? The very thing cops most desire, and I as a citizen
desire. I don't want cops shooting or clubing people, both of which
have a higher incidence of serious permanent injury, or death. I want
them to stop the perp with the least possibility of either, and so far,
after 100,000 uses, that seems to be holding true.

Don't you think it a bit ridiculous for the PC types to fidget and
natter that there isn't sufficient scientific inquiry, and animal
studies are underway, when there is documented use on HUMAN SUBJECTS,
at 100,000 actual live uses of taser on them to study for scientific
conclusions?

Must research is done exactly that way...a survey of the existing
material, books, articles, other studies, and here we have 100,000 of
the them, easily gathered.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...TORY=/www/stor...
http://tinyurl.com/6f5ky
"
TASER International has published safety charts comparing TASER
output to
standards published by Underwriter's Laboratories and similar agencies.
The
chart in question was developed by a government research contractor,
Jaycor
Inc. (now a subsidiary of the Titan Corporation) under funding by the
Defense
Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) and the National Institute of
Justice. The study evaluated stun device outputs against published
standards
indicating a significant safety margin for various devices, including
TASER
devices.
Medical experts and recent independent reports from the Canadian
Government, the U.S. Department of Defense and the United Kingdom
support that
TASER devices are among the lowest-risk alternatives available to law
enforcement to subdue violent individuals who could harm law
enforcement
officers, innocent citizens or themselves.
"
And please, no crap about this coming from the manufacturers "so it has
to be a lie"...they offered independed government sources. Not THEIR
research. And they used, in manufacture, UL listed standards for
safety.

Secondly the are as aware as you or I of the danger of giving false
information and being sued for it, and they KNOW that like any weapon
there is a high potential of misuse. So they KNOW they are going to get
sued. So they'd be fools to lie about their data and sources.

bobber, I want guns and clubs in the hands of police to be the last
resource.

Have you ever heard me use the term, "The fix is in?" Well, bobber, on
taser, the fix is in...it's today's popular target of the PC nutsos.
Did you know that Mace was once treated exactly the same? Kind of faded
away under the weight of actual facts. Just like this will.

Remember, little kids have been hit with the taser, and no injuries
resulted. Even a drunk 12 year old.

Get your data straight. Then come back and argue, or be a man and stand
up for the facts instead of the PC propaganda you are all too ready, at
times, to swallow. But now and then you've shown you are paying
attention, can read and understand, and you know someone is conning
you. This time, a lot of people are conning the public about the
relative danger of the taser.

Or are yah just another fuggering' mindless servile twit?

(sorry, had to get that in. I guess I'm just a baaaaaad boy.)

Kane

Still nothing on the safety of tasers on SIX-YEAR OLD!

Doan

On 3 Apr 2005 wrote:

My comments from another thread on Taser:

Enjoy;

From: - Find messages by this author
Date: 3 Apr 2005 00:02:05 -0800
Local: Sun, Apr 3 2005 12:02 am
Subject: taser deaths
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | View Thread | Show original
| Remove | Report Abuse

There were 103 Taser stun gun-related deaths in the United States and
Canada
between June 2001 and March 2005, according to an Amnesty
International
report released Friday.

Really? Amnesty International you say? Hmmm...my oh my, this is getting
serious if AI reported these. No bias there, nosiree.

Greegor the facts, if you'd bother research them, are that Taser is NOT
a stun gun, though it can be used as one in a pinch. It is a aerial
flight electro shocking device. And stun guns themselves have been in
use, both by police and civilians for years and years and have an
outstanding record of not being directly related to deaths.

A death that happens in conjunction with use of a stun gun or taser,
may or may not be directly related to that use. The males victims where
mosty wearing belts, and the male victims were mostly resisting arrest,
and the male victims were mostly involved with other things that
drastically changed their physiology, like drugs and alcohol.

Cops have some choices of weaponry to use, and among those choices some
are deadly by intent, the deadly in deadly force usually means a
firearm, though in military terms there are other deadly weapons.

In this context, a cop can tase, can club, can mace, can grapple, and
can shoot with a gun. They are expected to chose the least force
possible to stop the attacker or the one resisting.

In all those cases listing, plus all those that did NOT result in
injury or death, some 100,000 or so I believe I read, the cops chose
not to use any other of the force available to them, ALL of which, have
a record of injury and or death rates MUCH higher than taser so far.

Per use, taser has proven to be effective and non lethal far more than
other means. Frankly of all the choices a cop has, where I the suspect
fighting them, the one I would chose, if I could, would be the taser.
I've been hit with a heavy jolt from pretty hefty sources...animal
stock prods...and I've been shot. And I've been gassed. I've been hit
with clubs, and I've grabbled with people far larger than me or more of
them than me, and taser would be my preference, personally, with a mind
to survival with the least injury.

I am accustomed, but feel just as you do, pain. I am accustomed to
accepting pain, if it also means I have less chance of later long term
injury or death.

I would NOT like to be shot again. I would not like to be clubbed
again. I would not chose to be grappled with by superior forces.

The currently available data, not your biased propaganda driven 103
taser related deaths, is my critera. I don't care if it's 1,003, or
10,003, as long as the total number of uses vs death continues to be
the very low ratio it is compared to OTHER MEANS the police have at
their disposal.

They even have used them on six year olds without harm to the child.

I'm much older, but probably have a far more sturdy system than a six
year old. They'd play hell trying to kill me with a taser. I'd likely
wear out a few off their 9 volt batteries (yes, that is what produces
the charge, a nine volt battery, with the charge being as low as 1 to
.03 joules..which is nothing compared to heart stimulant paddles at
around 3.0+ joules as I recall. And yah gotta work a bit to kill
someone with those.).

You are aware, I presume and am having to stretch some to give yah
that, that no force police use is without risk of injury and death,
right?

To stop me or you they must use force of some kind. The question is how
much of what kind for the situation at hand. If I have a gun in hand,
that makes the cops choice hard but fast. They best draw and fire NOW.
They know that. I know that. So I wouldn't have a gun in hand.

How about a knife? Hmm....tougher. Do I look drunk or sober, can I
focuse well or poorly, and most important....how close am I and am I
threatening by voice or movement. If I'm within 21 feet, the gun is the
proper tool if I am threatening and appear to have the capacity,
because I can cover that 21 feet in under three seconds and get a cut
or stab in on the officer that can easily be fatal.

He needs to draw and fire now, center of mass to stop me if he can.

But wait. There are two solutions available. One has a very serious
problem with it. Contrary to the movies, gunfire from a handgun RARELY,
and I mean RARELY puts the target down and stops them quickly. It's on
record that people have been shot rigth through heart, gone, no pumper,
and the remaining blood was sufficient to keep the perp on his feet and
still advancing and they killed the office with his gun in his hand
still firing at the perp.

But I did say two solutions. The other...ah the other has a very high
percentage of instant stops, not only with no injury to the officer,
but with a very low risk of death or injury to the perp. Much lower
according to currently available data.

The perp is rended incapacitated for a minute or so, time enough to
cuff and secure him or her safely for all, including the perp.

bobber, the PC crowd could be right. This weapon could possibly be
lethal in some circumstance,...so are all currently used police
weapons...even their flashlight. What they are NOT yet correct about is
their outrageous speculations that start to look like butt covering,
rather than simply not knowing as much as the data has shown us.

You should read the opponents and what they say, then compare it to the
claims you phonies a make about CPS and what they say. It's speculative
butt covering.

And the 103 deaths. Dig in to them and you find a large percentage are
proven to death unrelated to the electrical shock, other causes
entirely. And the remainder? Not one that I've heard, other than
flapping noodle heads, so far that is directly traced to death by
electrical shock. And even if you find ONE, what does that say about
the weapon as compared to a gun, or club, or grappling, or mace, all of
which have been directly the cause of deaths of perps, and bystanders.

You heard of any innocent bystander deaths related to the use of taser
yet?

It's much easier to aim and control, and it can't be used beyond 25
feet. The officer would have to close his eyes, spin three times, run
10 yards, and with eyes still closed, fire, to hit an innocent
bystander, and even then would have about zero chance of killing the
bystander.

This whole thing is a PC fiasco, yet another bit of PC CRAP...the very
thing you have ****ed and moaned about, and see, you have got ME
whining like you now, because you suddenly have jumped the fence to the
PC CRAPPOLA side.

For **** sakes man, either believe me and shut your stupid pie hole, or
go get some data NOT PRODUCED BY THE PROPAGANDIST PC CROWD AND COME
FIGHT LIKE A MAN.

If we waited until we could prove that we can use electricity with the
rate of safety the taser currently enjoys (there are deaths from the
standard uses of electricity..trust me on this) guess what? My next
line to you would be read in smoke from hilltop to hilltop.

In most of the death incidences I could find there were misuse by
police, as far as I could see, that would have had a high likelihood of
fatality no matter what means of force they were using. Just read one,
where they shot a guy 17 times with, obviously, multiple tasers
weapons. He died. But even then there is some question taser was the
direct cause of death.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/...death_rate.htm

This is a more balanced article, that points up the lack of
research..sadly an onother slight piece of PC nonsense. There are about
100k recorded uses of taser NONE of which resulted in serious injury or
death to the subjects. Many were volunteers.

And in fact there was a very extensive medical trials testing run on
taser use.

Did you know, for instance, that reports are coming in at greater and
greater rates that perps, having become familiar with the taser, some
by prior experience 0:-, upon seeing an officer draw the taser, simply
stop and comply? The very thing cops most desire, and I as a citizen
desire. I don't want cops shooting or clubing people, both of which
have a higher incidence of serious permanent injury, or death. I want
them to stop the perp with the least possibility of either, and so far,
after 100,000 uses, that seems to be holding true.

Don't you think it a bit ridiculous for the PC types to fidget and
natter that there isn't sufficient scientific inquiry, and animal
studies are underway, when there is documented use on HUMAN SUBJECTS,
at 100,000 actual live uses of taser on them to study for scientific
conclusions?

Must research is done exactly that way...a survey of the existing
material, books, articles, other studies, and here we have 100,000 of
the them, easily gathered.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...TORY=/www/stor...
http://tinyurl.com/6f5ky
"
TASER International has published safety charts comparing TASER
output to
standards published by Underwriter's Laboratories and similar agencies.
The
chart in question was developed by a government research contractor,
Jaycor
Inc. (now a subsidiary of the Titan Corporation) under funding by the
Defense
Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) and the National Institute of
Justice. The study evaluated stun device outputs against published
standards
indicating a significant safety margin for various devices, including
TASER
devices.
Medical experts and recent independent reports from the Canadian
Government, the U.S. Department of Defense and the United Kingdom
support that
TASER devices are among the lowest-risk alternatives available to law
enforcement to subdue violent individuals who could harm law
enforcement
officers, innocent citizens or themselves.
"
And please, no crap about this coming from the manufacturers "so it has
to be a lie"...they offered independed government sources. Not THEIR
research. And they used, in manufacture, UL listed standards for
safety.

Secondly the are as aware as you or I of the danger of giving false
information and being sued for it, and they KNOW that like any weapon
there is a high potential of misuse. So they KNOW they are going to get
sued. So they'd be fools to lie about their data and sources.

bobber, I want guns and clubs in the hands of police to be the last
resource.

Have you ever heard me use the term, "The fix is in?" Well, bobber, on
taser, the fix is in...it's today's popular target of the PC nutsos.
Did you know that Mace was once treated exactly the same? Kind of faded
away under the weight of actual facts. Just like this will.

Remember, little kids have been hit with the taser, and no injuries
resulted. Even a drunk 12 year old.

Get your data straight. Then come back and argue, or be a man and stand
up for the facts instead of the PC propaganda you are all too ready, at
times, to swallow. But now and then you've shown you are paying
attention, can read and understand, and you know someone is conning
you. This time, a lot of people are conning the public about the
relative danger of the taser.

Or are yah just another fuggering' mindless servile twit?

(sorry, had to get that in. I guess I'm just a baaaaaad boy.)

Kane

Still nothing on the safety of tasers on SIX-YEAR OLDS! Come on, Kane0!
Where is your "formidable research skill"? ;-)

Doan

On 3 Apr 2005 wrote:


Mountain_Bill wrote:
"Doan" wrote in message
...

On 30 Mar 2005 wrote:

I just knew this would devolve into something brilliant.

0:-

Kane


Yup! I am still waiting for the research that support
your claim that tasers are safe on SIX-YEAR OLDS!

Doan


I thought he already posted that information. Something about someone
doing
tests on six year old pigs?

A six year old pig is about equivalent to an 80 year old man. Pigs have
rather short lives, generally. The ones used for experiment are not
only specially bred, like all lab animals, with characteristics that
would figure in the testing, but they are virus free born....they are
taken with the womb, placenta, and all, still intact out of the mother
pig, and the entire bundle of piglets are passed from the piggie OR
through a vat of disinfectent that has a passthrough into a sterile
room. There they are removed from the womb

Oh yes. Mother pig makes her next stop at the dog and cat food plant,
since dead pigs coming in the door cannot be slaughtered for human
consumption.

I'm always charmed when self important little ignoramouses pop up an
spout off.

Even the much pampered and well cared for Pot-bellied pet pig has a
lifespan about that of a dog or cat.
"
Life Span:
I feel that the life span of these pigs is not what we assumed in the
beginning. It is closer to the truth that they will have a productive
life that equals the life span of the well cared for dog. This would
make it between ten and fifteen years.
"

So a six year old pig (and the pigs used for experiment are usually
not, unless there is a longevity study underway, bred for long life) of
the kind used is probably very old at that age.

You'd want a 3 to 5 week old to hit the equivalent of a six year old
boy. Typical domestic pigs used (they are bred from the orginal Chester
White stock...and I do not know the current name, though one acronym
once common was PFP, Pneumonrhinitis Free Porcine--that's the special
clean room birthing thing, not the breed.)

It's been a long time since I dealt with livestock and veterinary
medicine.

By the way, the experiments are a waste of money. A great deal of
useful and solid research is done by reviewing records and publications
and prior reports.

There are 100,000 plus recorded incidences of the use of tasers on
willing and unwilling subjects. More than enough for a good statistical
analysis. Cop records of the disposition of perps tends to be reliable.
"After tasing the suspect, and finding him unresponsive we trasported
to hospital via ambulance. I accompanied. Suspect came too in the
ambulance and requied only treatment for mild systemic shock.
Attendants said his circulatory hypo tension was temporary and when we
arrived at the jail he was lucid, responsive, and walked under his own
power to check it."

Or "he was dead as a mackrel and autopsy report follows, see attach
#2."

100,000 recorded uses, Billy et al. That is an impressive group, with
all manner of subjects, age, weight, health, size, substances present
or absence, behaviors, all there. Many a researcher would give his left
nut for such a group to study the reports on.

Exactly, in fact, what showed already that Taser is far safer for all
parties, including the person targetted that other forms of force.

Yah got sucked into a PC nitwit's trap. The world is full of PC
nitwits. Plenty of them running around looking for the next "gee ain't
it awful." This one will calm down shortly, like most. Most cases now
that "gee" are "awful" consist of misuse by police..just like had they
used a gun, or club, or Capsicum, inappropriatedly. One death, they
shot the guy 17 times...obviously using more than one gun. And the
report still hasn't determined if the Taser was the cause of death.

Course you can ad hom babble instead of looking at facts, but that just
shows you to be an ass.

Billy

Here's this guy who is obsessed with ending
any and all forms of spanking of children, but
he's defending the use of TASERS on kids!

Doesn't it make you wonder if he doesn't own
a whole lot of STOCK in the TASER industry?

What else makes Kane so "invested" in the pro-taser crusade?

"Greegor" wrote in message
oups.com...
Here's this guy who is obsessed with ending
any and all forms of spanking of children, but
he's defending the use of TASERS on kids!

Doesn't it make you wonder if he doesn't own
a whole lot of STOCK in the TASER industry?

What else makes Kane so "invested" in the pro-taser crusade?

Do a Google "Kane taser" search.

Interesting!!!

R R R R ....yah caught me.

wrote in message
ups.com...
R R R R ....yah caught me.

It had to happen.

It was the woman in Tangiers.