Question: regaining lost milk supply?

My milk is going, if not already gone! I've been
drinking Mother's Milk tea and nursing or pumping as
much of the time as possible lately to try and
stimulate more of it, but it's been slowly dwindling
anyway and I don't know if it can be saved. I suspect
dehydration and semistarvation as the culprits; I've
been bad about taking care of myself recently; the
baby takes so much of my attention I haven't been
getting in my own meals. I've tried to get apple juice
down at least, but it's hard, and stress tends to
cause nausea for me, which doesn't make it any easier.

Anyway, the question is, if it's honestly gone -- and
I think it is; my breasts feel different today, more
'normal' than since before I conceived, and I'm not
leaking anymore, nor can I get anything out with the
pump -- is it gone for good (or at least till I have
another baby) or is it possible for desperate measures
to restart it again?

"Naomi Rivkis" wrote in message
...
My milk is going, if not already gone! I've been
drinking Mother's Milk tea and nursing or pumping as
much of the time as possible lately to try and
stimulate more of it, but it's been slowly dwindling
anyway and I don't know if it can be saved. I suspect
dehydration and semistarvation as the culprits; I've
been bad about taking care of myself recently; the
baby takes so much of my attention I haven't been
getting in my own meals. I've tried to get apple juice
down at least, but it's hard, and stress tends to
cause nausea for me, which doesn't make it any easier.

Anyway, the question is, if it's honestly gone -- and
I think it is; my breasts feel different today, more
'normal' than since before I conceived, and I'm not
leaking anymore, nor can I get anything out with the
pump -- is it gone for good (or at least till I have
another baby) or is it possible for desperate measures
to restart it again?

Naomi,

I'm sorry you're going through this. Are you supplementing with formula?
What makes you think you're drying up other than the fact that you're not
leaking and you can't get much with a pump? Is your baby wetting diapers
and pooping?

I was convinced all the time with Laszlo that my milk was drying up - just
being paranoid about it all the time. At first I used the pump as a direct
indicator of how much milk I was producing, until I learned that it is NOT a
good indicator of that AT ALL. As a matter of fact, my son was gaining
beautifully and I was lucky most days if I could pump 1 ounce.

Without knowing your supplementing situation, I'd have to say to keep
nursing as much as possible. Also, leaking doesn't happen forever, so it's
possible that your baby's still getting enough milk, just that you've
adjusted to the demand and that you don't leak anymore.

Good luck, keep us posted,

Jen

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:19:45 GMT, "New York Jen"
wrote:

I'm sorry you're going through this. Are you supplementing with formula?
What makes you think you're drying up other than the fact that you're not
leaking and you can't get much with a pump? Is your baby wetting diapers
and pooping?

I was convinced all the time with Laszlo that my milk was drying up - just
being paranoid about it all the time. At first I used the pump as a direct
indicator of how much milk I was producing, until I learned that it is NOT a
good indicator of that AT ALL. As a matter of fact, my son was gaining
beautifully and I was lucky most days if I could pump 1 ounce.

Without knowing your supplementing situation, I'd have to say to keep
nursing as much as possible. Also, leaking doesn't happen forever, so it's
possible that your baby's still getting enough milk, just that you've
adjusted to the demand and that you don't leak anymore.

I know she's not getting enough from me; we've had to supplement with
formula almost from the beginning. She would drain me and then howl
for more. I've tried to use the pump to stimulate more flow, so that I
could *stop* supplementing, but it's gotten worse instead of better. I
think she's still getting some from me, because she does stay on the
breast for a while even when she's hungry, and she's swallowing. But
she doesn't get anywhere near enough given the quantity of formula she
gulps down after she's finished with the breasts.

Naomi

"Naomi Rivkis" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:19:45 GMT, "New York Jen"
wrote:

I know she's not getting enough from me; we've had to supplement with
formula almost from the beginning. She would drain me and then howl
for more. I've tried to use the pump to stimulate more flow, so that I
could *stop* supplementing, but it's gotten worse instead of better. I
think she's still getting some from me, because she does stay on the
breast for a while even when she's hungry, and she's swallowing. But
she doesn't get anywhere near enough given the quantity of formula she
gulps down after she's finished with the breasts.

I read about this somewhere -- I read that they can appear to be ravenous
but really it's that the bottle nipple just keeps dumping liquid into their
mouths, and they have to swallow it or choke, and then they fall asleep from
exhaustion!

-- Dagny

On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 02:14:51 GMT, "Dagny" wrote:

I read about this somewhere -- I read that they can appear to be ravenous
but really it's that the bottle nipple just keeps dumping liquid into their
mouths, and they have to swallow it or choke, and then they fall asleep from
exhaustion!

I *wish* she'd fall asleep! She sleeps relatively little for a
five-week-old. My pediatrician says it's a sign of a smart baby, that
she's so alert, but it's driving us nuts. I do think she's honestly
hungry as much of the time as she acts like, because it isn't just
that she keeps swallowing -- it's that she cries when it's taken away
from her, and that she latches on enthusiastically to a breast or a
finger or a pacifier or something else that doesn't have milk in it
(after she'd finished whatever I have in my breasts at the time) and
then after a minute of ro of vigorous sucking spits it out with an
outraged howl and looks around for something else. You can almost hear
her saying "Hey!! Gimme one with milk in it, dammit! What do I have to
do to get service around here?!?"

Naomi

Naomi Rivkis wrote in message
I do think she's honestly
hungry as much of the time as she acts like, because it isn't just
that she keeps swallowing -- it's that she cries when it's taken away
from her, and that she latches on enthusiastically to a breast or a
finger or a pacifier or something else that doesn't have milk in it
(after she'd finished whatever I have in my breasts at the time) and
then after a minute of ro of vigorous sucking spits it out with an
outraged howl and looks around for something else. You can almost hear
her saying "Hey!! Gimme one with milk in it, dammit! What do I have to
do to get service around here?!?"

Your breasts don't ever empty. If you are commited to breastfeeding
exclusively, then you need to stop supplementing. You are telling your
breasts that you don't need to build up your supply and soon you will have
to use formula 100%. If this is something that your are wanting to do, then
you are on the right track. But, if you want to exclusively breastfeed, then
like I said you need to realize that nursing the baby ALL the time is what
will increase your supply. Drinking lots of water and eating some oatmeal
will increase your supply.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

Naomi Rivkis wrote:

(Hi, Naomi, nice to see you over here!*)


I know she's not getting enough from me; we've had to supplement with
formula almost from the beginning.

OK. That's pretty much the REASON you've had supply problems. The first
weeks are critical in establishing supply, and every ounce of formula is an
ounce of milk that your breasts are being told not to make.

She would drain me and then howl
for more.

Breasts don't empty. Ever. In fact, most of the milk taken during a nursing
session is made on the fly, not stored up beforehand.

Here's my suggestion: offer the breast a LOT. Spend a weekend doing just
about nothing but nursing. Decrease the amount of formula you offer by an
ounce per day. Keep an eye on diaper output while you do this, to make sure
she's still getting enough, but with that cautious rate of decreasing
formula, your breasts shouldn't have a problem picking up the slack.

Just for convenience, I'm going to answer two of your posts he

I do think she's honestly
hungry as much of the time as she acts like, because it isn't just
that she keeps swallowing -- it's that she cries when it's taken away
from her,

By "it," do you mean the breast or the bottle?

and that she latches on enthusiastically to a breast or a
finger or a pacifier or something else that doesn't have milk in it
(after she'd finished whatever I have in my breasts at the time) and
then after a minute of ro of vigorous sucking spits it out with an
outraged howl and looks around for something else.

It sounds like she's not done sucking or is still hungry. Put her back to
the breast. As I stated above, your breasts aren't empty; they aren't
flesh-covered bottles, they don't work that way.

--
tristyn (*former SRM moderator)
www.tristyn.net

In ,
Naomi Rivkis wrote:

*I know she's not getting enough from me; we've had to supplement with
*formula almost from the beginning. She would drain me and then howl
*for more.

Even that isn't necessarily indicative of a problem. I mean, the nursing
and then howling for more... sounds like my son. He had to stay latched on
75% of the time or he'd just wail. Before you started supplementing, was
there a problem with diaper output? That's really the only way to know for
sure if the baby is getting enough - counting wet and dirty diapers. The
more you supplement, the less milk your body will try to make, so
supplementing is bad for supply. Obviously if your baby truly needs the
supplementation, you need to give it - but you could try giving it via an
SNS or other similar setup, so that the baby suckles at the breast while
getting the supplement, thus providing the needed stimulation to your
breasts to make still more milk.

*breast for a while even when she's hungry, and she's swallowing. But
*she doesn't get anywhere near enough given the quantity of formula she
*gulps down after she's finished with the breasts.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Again, I am not saying your baby
definitely doesn't need supplements, because I'm not there. You should
work in conjunction with a lactation consultant and BF-friendly
pediatrician to figure out a plan for your baby. But some babies will
happily guzzle bottle after bottle after bottle, it doesn't mean they
aren't getting enough.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

Anyway, the question is, if it's honestly gone -- and
I think it is; my breasts feel different today, more
'normal' than since before I conceived, and I'm not
leaking anymore, nor can I get anything out with the
pump -- is it gone for good

Well, first off, none of those things are really good indicators of your milk
supply. Although engorgement, leaking and pumping easily can be reassuring,
the lack of those things does not mean your baby isn't getting sufficient milk.

So do you have any other reasons for thinking you're drying up? How often have
you been pumping or using formula instead of nursing? Has the baby started
solid foods? (I can't recall how old she is.) How's your baby's diaper count
and weight gain?

Second, of course you can rebuild your milk supply, if in fact it is low, as
long as the reason for the problem isn't some strange underlying hormonal issue
or the like (or another pregnancy!). The main thing you would need to do is
just nurse the baby very frequently. (And don't supplement at all, though if
you've been using a lot of formula you may need to cut back gradually.) Other
things that would help are to stay as rested and hydrated as possible, reduce
or eliminate stress (which does not affect supply directly, but can inhibit
letdown), and take galactagogues (oatmeal, fenugreek, Domperidone).

Holly
Mom to Camden, 3yo
EDD #2 6/8/04

Hi Naomi

Sorry to hear that you are having problems but it is possible to relactate
even if you have completely dried up (it's even possible for adoptive
mothers to lactate), but it is going to take commitment. I strongly suggest
you see an good IBCLC. It's very much worth it if you get a good one and
you can find one in your area by going he
http://www.breastfeeding.com/directory/lcdirectory.html

Some other things you can do:

1) Stop bottles and pacifiers immediately. Any supplementation should be
done using a syringe or a cup (or an SNS might be good in your case to
increase your supply - this is another good reason to see an LC as they can
show you how to use it properly). Your baby's sucking needs should be met
by the breast and nothing else.

2) Eat oatmeal

3) Use Lactaflow or More Milk (or something with Fenugreek/Blessed Thistle
etc.) rather than Mothers Milk (which is not a very strong galactalogue)

4) If you can spend the weekend in bed nursing (I don't know if you have
another child, but if so could you get someone to help you this weekend?)
skin to skin and just nurse round the clock, that will help your supply

5) Push extra fluids. It's very important. I found the only way I could do
this when my DD was a newborn was to make a pitcher of ice water and put it
in a central place. Every time I saw the pitcher I filled my glass. Sports
bottles are another good way - have them all around the house where ever you
nurse.

6) Try to get it out of your head that she must be hungry because she eats a
whole bottle of formula after you're done nursing. Breastfeeding is all
about supply and demand. The less you nurse the less your body produces.
Putting your baby to breast is the best way to increase your supply. Like
Dagny said, she may just be eating the formula because it's there and not
because she's as hungry as all that. Obviously your supply is not where it
needs to be if you've been supplementing from day 1, but once you start
supplementing with bottles, it can be a very slippery slope. Better to fix
it now than wait, so whatever you can do *now* is gong to save you a lot of
other stuff later.

Please keep us posted and ask as many questions as you need!! Good luck!

{{Naomi}}

CY
"Naomi Rivkis" wrote in message
...
My milk is going, if not already gone! I've been
drinking Mother's Milk tea and nursing or pumping as
much of the time as possible lately to try and
stimulate more of it, but it's been slowly dwindling
anyway and I don't know if it can be saved. I suspect
dehydration and semistarvation as the culprits; I've
been bad about taking care of myself recently; the
baby takes so much of my attention I haven't been
getting in my own meals. I've tried to get apple juice
down at least, but it's hard, and stress tends to
cause nausea for me, which doesn't make it any easier.

Anyway, the question is, if it's honestly gone -- and
I think it is; my breasts feel different today, more
'normal' than since before I conceived, and I'm not
leaking anymore, nor can I get anything out with the
pump -- is it gone for good (or at least till I have
another baby) or is it possible for desperate measures
to restart it again?