expressing amounts

Hi there

I have been bf for 6wks.It's been painful and nerve wrecking.Baby is
very sleepy and sometimes sessions last for an hr, after which baby
wakes up again crying and hungry. Latest trend is baby pulling and
twitching at breast, making me very very sore.

I'd like to start expressing and giving some of the feeds through
bottle,so my breasts get some relief. How much should I give my 6wk
old? And I would also like to try giving her a supplementary bottle at
night till I get enough ebm. How much should I give her?

Tnx for all your help.

In article . com,
" wrote:

I have been bf for 6wks.It's been painful and nerve wrecking.Baby is
very sleepy and sometimes sessions last for an hr, after which baby
wakes up again crying and hungry. Latest trend is baby pulling and
twitching at breast, making me very very sore.

I'd like to start expressing and giving some of the feeds through
bottle,so my breasts get some relief. How much should I give my 6wk
old? And I would also like to try giving her a supplementary bottle at
night till I get enough ebm. How much should I give her?

Not sure that spending even more time on breast-related things is going to be
much fun for you. Are there any local support groups you can call? Sounds
like you and baby need some help with latch, and that's a lot easier to do in
person. Where are you?

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

schrieb:
Hi there

I have been bf for 6wks.It's been painful and nerve wrecking.Baby is
very sleepy and sometimes sessions last for an hr, after which baby
wakes up again crying and hungry. Latest trend is baby pulling and
twitching at breast, making me very very sore.

Go and see a lactation consultant. Please.
Breastfeeding generally does not hurt. If it hurts somethings going very
wrong. Get your baby checked out, maybe there's a problem e.g. it's
tongue tied, has thrush, whatever.

Sam was also a sleepy baby, feeding him took 1.5 hours (30 min left, 30
min right, 30 min left). Yes it was rough, yes I hated it, yes I didn't
get a lot of sleep. But it was so worth it! He got better after a while
though I can't remember when. (He's turning 7 this year and we
breastfeed until he was 4, though it was only about 1 or 2 short feeds a
day which then dropped to "emergency" sessions maybe every second day,...)
6 weeks is very young still.

Are you still using the breast shields?

I'd like to start expressing and giving some of the feeds through
bottle,so my breasts get some relief. How much should I give my 6wk
old? And I would also like to try giving her a supplementary bottle at
night till I get enough ebm. How much should I give her?

Pumping is not gentler on the breast than breastfeeding. Also, by giving
a bottle you might make breastfeeding even more painful due to nipple
confusion.
Speaking of which, does your baby take a pacifier? My son hated them but
we got him to take one twice (with a lot of screaming and holding the
dang thing in and rocking and him finally realizing it's not going to
kill him after all....) and every time after he had it he wouldn't latch
on properly for a while.

Supplementing usually means reducing the amount of milk you're making.
Pumping also usually reduces the amount of milk you're making. If I was
you I would go and find someone to help me breastfeed, a real person who
can sit there and watch what's happening while you're feeding. I'm
willing to bet that your baby is not latching on propperly, or maybe it
latches on properly and then slips off a bit or something along those
lines.

A few things to remember:
C Hold: Hold your breast between thumb and index+middle finger (like a
burger) making a C shape with your fingers.
The baby comes to the breast, the breast never comes to the baby.
Wait for the "fish mouth" before docking.

- For the left breast:
Hold your breast in the C Hold with your right hand while you have
babies head on your left arm. Bring baby up with your arm so it's facing
your breast. It will open its mouth wide. DO NOT LEAN FORWARD! Bring the
baby to the breast inserting as much of the breast as possible
(seriously, you won't be able to see a lot of the areola (SP?) when
baby's latched on properly) into its wide open mouth. Make sure the lips
are all turned out, like a fish.

For the right breast reverse instructions ;-)

cu
nicole

btw: Some pictures that show what the babies mouth should look like
(found via google, page content totally ignored, just look at the
pictures and you'll see the "fish mouth"):
http://www.theshadedleaf.com/tea/cat...d-p-16136.html
http://birthrhythms.com/breastfeeding_1.jpg
http://www.impactlab.com/modules.php...icle&sid=11179

wrote:

I have been bf for 6wks.It's been painful and nerve wrecking.Baby is
very sleepy and sometimes sessions last for an hr, after which baby
wakes up again crying and hungry. Latest trend is baby pulling and
twitching at breast, making me very very sore.

Ah, I remember those days. Is he nursing
more than normal (of course, it's only been
6 weeks, there's no real "normal")? Six
weeks is a growth spurt time, which means
increased nursing.

I'd like to start expressing and giving some of the feeds through
bottle,so my breasts get some relief. How much should I give my 6wk
old? And I would also like to try giving her a supplementary bottle at
night till I get enough ebm. How much should I give her?

When pumping in addition to nursing (which
you would be doing), getting 1 oz. at a
session is average. Baby may drink 3-4 oz.
in one feeding. It takes several pumping
sessions to get enough EBM for one feeding.

I would pump once a day when you have some
free time, maybe when baby has fallen asleep
for the long sleep in the evening. I used
to pump during "Law & Order".

The myth about pumping is that it gives you
some "relief". The fact is that you will
still need to pump during the time that baby
is feeding from the bottle, because your
breasts may get engorged and want to nurse
anyway. The good thing is that you may be
able to pump more because this would be a
pumping session *instead* of nursing, so
you could get 2-3 oz.

-- Anita --

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi there

I have been bf for 6wks.It's been painful and nerve wrecking.Baby is
very sleepy and sometimes sessions last for an hr, after which baby
wakes up again crying and hungry. Latest trend is baby pulling and
twitching at breast, making me very very sore.

I think you should go see an LC or whatever is similar in your area.
Sounds like you're both having some issues with latching, and getting some
help with that could be very helpful.

I'd like to start expressing and giving some of the feeds through
bottle,so my breasts get some relief. How much should I give my 6wk
old? And I would also like to try giving her a supplementary bottle at
night till I get enough ebm. How much should I give her?

As far as 'how much' goes, I have no idea. I believe at about 6 weeks,
though, the average amount a baby eats is about 6-8ish oz every 4 or so
hours? This is for formula, it seems, and I could be wrong as far as how
that goes. The one bad thing about breastfed babies is it's nearly
impossible to know how much they are eating. Breast milk and formula are
also very different, so it's hard to guess how much, on average, the average
baby will eat and how often when it's EBM. I'm sure there's someone out
there who has done the EBM in a bottle thing and might be able to offer an
idea as far as what their baby did. I'm sorry, I really can't help there

Also, if you're having issues with pain while bfing, then a pump will
probably not help your case. Breastfeeding should not be painful at all.
If it is, something is not right. Pumping is often harder on you. I didn't
have any pain while nursing, but with DD2, the pump was downright painful.
After only a few minutes, my nipples would be sore, cracked and I do
remember one time that they started to slightly bleed after trying the pump
out for about 7 or so mins. I had used pumps in the past, and recent past
when I was using it recently, but I found a pump was far worse and not worth
my money to rent a hospital grade pump that is supposed to be so fantastic.

Tnx for all your help.

For now, I would start with maybe trying to see a lactation consultant or a
doctor/nurse that *specializes* in breastfeeding. Depending on what area
you are in, there should be a couple of options. LLL is fairly big and
around the world, and maybe you have that in your area? Some may find LLL
to be overwhelming, pushy and anal about bfing, but if it comes across like
they're breastfeeding nazis, just put that aside and get and take the
information you need. I found this the first time I had approached LLL when
DS was a newborn and I didn't care to go back. With DD2, 5 and some years
later, I found it very helpful and knew how to handle the information. I
was able to talk to a woman that helped me very much, and I am so greatful
for that.
I also found a doctor through a friend. This doctor specialized in
breastfeeding. She was very helpful. As was going to the Breastfeeding
Clinic that I was able to get in thanks to my pediatrician (a ped that is
all for breast feeding/breast milk is another plus, IMO)
Good luck, and no, it's not easy. Nursing is often a challenge until both
mom and baby know exactly what they're doing! Then it seems like more of a
breeze to do, and yes, it will get easier and better. It's also easier for
both of you to get it right earlier than later, as both you and baby could
get into 'bad' habits with bfing that are harder to correct later.

In article . com,
says...
Hi there

I have been bf for 6wks.It's been painful and nerve wrecking.Baby is
very sleepy and sometimes sessions last for an hr, after which baby
wakes up again crying and hungry. Latest trend is baby pulling and
twitching at breast, making me very very sore.

I'd like to start expressing and giving some of the feeds through
bottle,so my breasts get some relief. How much should I give my 6wk
old? And I would also like to try giving her a supplementary bottle at
night till I get enough ebm. How much should I give her?

Tnx for all your help.


I understand your pain, but your proposed solution is only likely to
make things worse. However there are some things you can do to make
the feeding experience better for both your and the baby...

First, there is the overall production question. There are several
things you can to do ensure that you have adequate milk production.
So lets talk about production first. The 4 points for increasing
milk supply.

1. Rest. Continue to get as much rest as possible. Since baby is
probably still night nursing a lot, this involves several things,
including sleeping in the day. :-) Nap when the baby does. Don't
stay up and run errands, clean house, shop, etc. Enlist Dh for help.
I know this sounds difficult, but for the next month or so, be
vigilant about getting adequate rest.

2. Water. Drink plenty of water. "Plenty" is defined as an 12 oz
glass every 2 hours. You should actually *count* glasses to make sure
you are getting enough. It must be water. Do not substitute
caffinated beverages. These create their own problems. Keep a full
sports bottle by your bed at night and drink when you night nurse.
(yes, you should night nurse in bed to increase the rest factor).
Finally, on this front, if you are having colic problems with the baby,
(it is common at 6 weeks), you can try drinking fennel seed tea.
Make a quart pot at 4 pm, and finish it by 10 pm. It is also a mild
galactogoue (see point 4)

3. Nurse often and long. Apparently, this is happening already, but
it is causing soreness. I will talk about dealing with the soreness
next, but for this point, nurse on demand when the baby wants, and for
as long as the baby will nurse. This will increase your supply,
because it is demand driven. You can combine this with the rest point
by taking a "nursing holiday" where you do nothing but lie around and
nurse or talk to the baby all day.

4. Use dietary galactogogues. Eat oatmeal. At least a serving and a
half every morning for breakfast. Take fenugreek capsules, 3 600 mg
caps, 3x daily.

The 4 points above should have a beneficial effect on your supply and
in turn reduce your baby's frustration.

Now for the soreness. There are two things you need to look out for.

1. Latch. I agree with the posters who say you need to see an LC,
but not just any LC. You should seek out an IBCLC certified LC. She
should be able to help you with any latch problem.

2. Thrush. You need to be vigilant about this. It can often appear
asymptomatic. It can cause pretty excrutiating nursing pain. When
my wife was nursing, Nystatin worked for her. Others may use other
remedies, but you should be aware of this potential problem

In addition to these you should "leave your nipples out to air dry"
after each nursing session. You might also consider applying
"Lansinoh" (a brand name breastfeeding ointment made form lanolin.

These 'solutions' can frequently relieve the soreness pretty quickly.

Please post again and let every know how you are doing.

Good luck,
Larry

tnx so much for all your valuable suggestions. i ended up
supplementing with formula. it was heartbreaking but i really needed a
break. baby has been feeding for extremely long hours - i suspect she
was not feeding properly after all, as she gulped the formula bottle.
i'll try this system - giving her the breast and when i see her dozing
off give her some formula. in that way i'll know if she's still hungry
or not.

tnx again

Larry Mcmahan wrote:
In article . com,
says...
Hi there

I have been bf for 6wks.It's been painful and nerve wrecking.Baby is
very sleepy and sometimes sessions last for an hr, after which baby
wakes up again crying and hungry. Latest trend is baby pulling and
twitching at breast, making me very very sore.

I'd like to start expressing and giving some of the feeds through
bottle,so my breasts get some relief. How much should I give my 6wk
old? And I would also like to try giving her a supplementary bottle at
night till I get enough ebm. How much should I give her?

Tnx for all your help.


I understand your pain, but your proposed solution is only likely to
make things worse. However there are some things you can do to make
the feeding experience better for both your and the baby...

First, there is the overall production question. There are several
things you can to do ensure that you have adequate milk production.
So lets talk about production first. The 4 points for increasing
milk supply.

1. Rest. Continue to get as much rest as possible. Since baby is
probably still night nursing a lot, this involves several things,
including sleeping in the day. :-) Nap when the baby does. Don't
stay up and run errands, clean house, shop, etc. Enlist Dh for help.
I know this sounds difficult, but for the next month or so, be
vigilant about getting adequate rest.

2. Water. Drink plenty of water. "Plenty" is defined as an 12 oz
glass every 2 hours. You should actually *count* glasses to make sure
you are getting enough. It must be water. Do not substitute
caffinated beverages. These create their own problems. Keep a full
sports bottle by your bed at night and drink when you night nurse.
(yes, you should night nurse in bed to increase the rest factor).
Finally, on this front, if you are having colic problems with the baby,
(it is common at 6 weeks), you can try drinking fennel seed tea.
Make a quart pot at 4 pm, and finish it by 10 pm. It is also a mild
galactogoue (see point 4)

3. Nurse often and long. Apparently, this is happening already, but
it is causing soreness. I will talk about dealing with the soreness
next, but for this point, nurse on demand when the baby wants, and for
as long as the baby will nurse. This will increase your supply,
because it is demand driven. You can combine this with the rest point
by taking a "nursing holiday" where you do nothing but lie around and
nurse or talk to the baby all day.

4. Use dietary galactogogues. Eat oatmeal. At least a serving and a
half every morning for breakfast. Take fenugreek capsules, 3 600 mg
caps, 3x daily.

The 4 points above should have a beneficial effect on your supply and
in turn reduce your baby's frustration.

Now for the soreness. There are two things you need to look out for.

1. Latch. I agree with the posters who say you need to see an LC,
but not just any LC. You should seek out an IBCLC certified LC. She
should be able to help you with any latch problem.

2. Thrush. You need to be vigilant about this. It can often appear
asymptomatic. It can cause pretty excrutiating nursing pain. When
my wife was nursing, Nystatin worked for her. Others may use other
remedies, but you should be aware of this potential problem

In addition to these you should "leave your nipples out to air dry"
after each nursing session. You might also consider applying
"Lansinoh" (a brand name breastfeeding ointment made form lanolin.

These 'solutions' can frequently relieve the soreness pretty quickly.

Please post again and let every know how you are doing.

Good luck,
Larry

wrote in message
ups.com...
tnx so much for all your valuable suggestions. i ended up
supplementing with formula. it was heartbreaking but i really needed a
break. baby has been feeding for extremely long hours - i suspect she
was not feeding properly after all, as she gulped the formula bottle.
i'll try this system - giving her the breast and when i see her dozing
off give her some formula. in that way i'll know if she's still hungry
or not.

tnx again

It sounds like a growth spurt, which can mean lots of feeding from baby (and
not much rest for you!). During a growth spurt, your baby is trying to
build up your milk supply i.e. getting your body to make more milk. If you
give formula, that means that your body won't create that milk. The way
that you are describing giving the formula (i.e. as a top-up after a full
feed at the breast) is the best way to do it, but may be unnecessary. Also,
giving top-ups can be the begining of the slippery slope where the baby
starts to take more from the bottle, and less from the breast, and therefore
the demand decreases and your body creates less milk. Then the baby takes
more from the bottle and so on. It's a vicious cycle that is difficult to
break.

I can understand the need to get some rest, and I don't want to sound totaly
anti-formula. For a short term break, it may be the best solution for you,
but do be aware of the possible problems that may occur.

Also, remember that you *are* doing a good job, any breastmilk is good! It
is tough, but it does get easier. Try to find some peer support through
local groups. All BF mums have gone through the rough times, and it's good
to share.

Suzanne


Larry Mcmahan wrote:
In article . com,
says...
Hi there

I have been bf for 6wks.It's been painful and nerve wrecking.Baby is
very sleepy and sometimes sessions last for an hr, after which baby
wakes up again crying and hungry. Latest trend is baby pulling and
twitching at breast, making me very very sore.

I'd like to start expressing and giving some of the feeds through
bottle,so my breasts get some relief. How much should I give my 6wk
old? And I would also like to try giving her a supplementary bottle at
night till I get enough ebm. How much should I give her?

Tnx for all your help.


I understand your pain, but your proposed solution is only likely to
make things worse. However there are some things you can do to make
the feeding experience better for both your and the baby...

First, there is the overall production question. There are several
things you can to do ensure that you have adequate milk production.
So lets talk about production first. The 4 points for increasing
milk supply.

1. Rest. Continue to get as much rest as possible. Since baby is
probably still night nursing a lot, this involves several things,
including sleeping in the day. :-) Nap when the baby does. Don't
stay up and run errands, clean house, shop, etc. Enlist Dh for help.
I know this sounds difficult, but for the next month or so, be
vigilant about getting adequate rest.

2. Water. Drink plenty of water. "Plenty" is defined as an 12 oz
glass every 2 hours. You should actually *count* glasses to make sure
you are getting enough. It must be water. Do not substitute
caffinated beverages. These create their own problems. Keep a full
sports bottle by your bed at night and drink when you night nurse.
(yes, you should night nurse in bed to increase the rest factor).
Finally, on this front, if you are having colic problems with the baby,
(it is common at 6 weeks), you can try drinking fennel seed tea.
Make a quart pot at 4 pm, and finish it by 10 pm. It is also a mild
galactogoue (see point 4)

3. Nurse often and long. Apparently, this is happening already, but
it is causing soreness. I will talk about dealing with the soreness
next, but for this point, nurse on demand when the baby wants, and for
as long as the baby will nurse. This will increase your supply,
because it is demand driven. You can combine this with the rest point
by taking a "nursing holiday" where you do nothing but lie around and
nurse or talk to the baby all day.

4. Use dietary galactogogues. Eat oatmeal. At least a serving and a
half every morning for breakfast. Take fenugreek capsules, 3 600 mg
caps, 3x daily.

The 4 points above should have a beneficial effect on your supply and
in turn reduce your baby's frustration.

Now for the soreness. There are two things you need to look out for.

1. Latch. I agree with the posters who say you need to see an LC,
but not just any LC. You should seek out an IBCLC certified LC. She
should be able to help you with any latch problem.

2. Thrush. You need to be vigilant about this. It can often appear
asymptomatic. It can cause pretty excrutiating nursing pain. When
my wife was nursing, Nystatin worked for her. Others may use other
remedies, but you should be aware of this potential problem

In addition to these you should "leave your nipples out to air dry"
after each nursing session. You might also consider applying
"Lansinoh" (a brand name breastfeeding ointment made form lanolin.

These 'solutions' can frequently relieve the soreness pretty quickly.

Please post again and let every know how you are doing.

Good luck,
Larry

Tnx suzanne
I do appreciate your support. I am aware that breast milk production
might be effected. I'm trying to pump in between feeds whenever
possible to try and keep it up. And I'm limiting the use of formula to
just one bottle a day. As a break! Tnx so much.

Suzanne S wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
tnx so much for all your valuable suggestions. i ended up
supplementing with formula. it was heartbreaking but i really needed a
break. baby has been feeding for extremely long hours - i suspect she
was not feeding properly after all, as she gulped the formula bottle.
i'll try this system - giving her the breast and when i see her dozing
off give her some formula. in that way i'll know if she's still hungry
or not.

tnx again

It sounds like a growth spurt, which can mean lots of feeding from baby (and
not much rest for you!). During a growth spurt, your baby is trying to
build up your milk supply i.e. getting your body to make more milk. If you
give formula, that means that your body won't create that milk. The way
that you are describing giving the formula (i.e. as a top-up after a full
feed at the breast) is the best way to do it, but may be unnecessary. Also,
giving top-ups can be the begining of the slippery slope where the baby
starts to take more from the bottle, and less from the breast, and therefore
the demand decreases and your body creates less milk. Then the baby takes
more from the bottle and so on. It's a vicious cycle that is difficult to
break.

I can understand the need to get some rest, and I don't want to sound totaly
anti-formula. For a short term break, it may be the best solution for you,
but do be aware of the possible problems that may occur.

Also, remember that you *are* doing a good job, any breastmilk is good! It
is tough, but it does get easier. Try to find some peer support through
local groups. All BF mums have gone through the rough times, and it's good
to share.

Suzanne


Larry Mcmahan wrote:
In article . com,
says...
Hi there

I have been bf for 6wks.It's been painful and nerve wrecking.Baby is
very sleepy and sometimes sessions last for an hr, after which baby
wakes up again crying and hungry. Latest trend is baby pulling and
twitching at breast, making me very very sore.

I'd like to start expressing and giving some of the feeds through
bottle,so my breasts get some relief. How much should I give my 6wk
old? And I would also like to try giving her a supplementary bottle at
night till I get enough ebm. How much should I give her?

Tnx for all your help.


I understand your pain, but your proposed solution is only likely to
make things worse. However there are some things you can do to make
the feeding experience better for both your and the baby...

First, there is the overall production question. There are several
things you can to do ensure that you have adequate milk production.
So lets talk about production first. The 4 points for increasing
milk supply.

1. Rest. Continue to get as much rest as possible. Since baby is
probably still night nursing a lot, this involves several things,
including sleeping in the day. :-) Nap when the baby does. Don't
stay up and run errands, clean house, shop, etc. Enlist Dh for help.
I know this sounds difficult, but for the next month or so, be
vigilant about getting adequate rest.

2. Water. Drink plenty of water. "Plenty" is defined as an 12 oz
glass every 2 hours. You should actually *count* glasses to make sure
you are getting enough. It must be water. Do not substitute
caffinated beverages. These create their own problems. Keep a full
sports bottle by your bed at night and drink when you night nurse.
(yes, you should night nurse in bed to increase the rest factor).
Finally, on this front, if you are having colic problems with the baby,
(it is common at 6 weeks), you can try drinking fennel seed tea.
Make a quart pot at 4 pm, and finish it by 10 pm. It is also a mild
galactogoue (see point 4)

3. Nurse often and long. Apparently, this is happening already, but
it is causing soreness. I will talk about dealing with the soreness
next, but for this point, nurse on demand when the baby wants, and for
as long as the baby will nurse. This will increase your supply,
because it is demand driven. You can combine this with the rest point
by taking a "nursing holiday" where you do nothing but lie around and
nurse or talk to the baby all day.

4. Use dietary galactogogues. Eat oatmeal. At least a serving and a
half every morning for breakfast. Take fenugreek capsules, 3 600 mg
caps, 3x daily.

The 4 points above should have a beneficial effect on your supply and
in turn reduce your baby's frustration.

Now for the soreness. There are two things you need to look out for.

1. Latch. I agree with the posters who say you need to see an LC,
but not just any LC. You should seek out an IBCLC certified LC. She
should be able to help you with any latch problem.

2. Thrush. You need to be vigilant about this. It can often appear
asymptomatic. It can cause pretty excrutiating nursing pain. When
my wife was nursing, Nystatin worked for her. Others may use other
remedies, but you should be aware of this potential problem

In addition to these you should "leave your nipples out to air dry"
after each nursing session. You might also consider applying
"Lansinoh" (a brand name breastfeeding ointment made form lanolin.

These 'solutions' can frequently relieve the soreness pretty quickly.

Please post again and let every know how you are doing.

Good luck,
Larry